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I now understand Xenogears and Chrono Cross and YOU CAN TOO!

Adam Prime

hates soccer, is Mexican
Like most people here, I played through Xenogears and Cross whilst I was a young boy, in high school. While I enjoyed the game play, music, and graphics of both of these games... the story didn't make much or any sense. I could tell there was something there, and there was a lot of effort put into it, and it was clearly well thought-out but hell... I couldn't make sense of it. I'm sure you can find a post I've made on GAF talking about Xenogears just being a freaking mess and the writers of the game were out of their freaking mind writing something that nobody could ever understand or figure out.

Well at least one person on the internet did, and made a GREAT video series about both games. I think the visual(s) in the video along with the explanation that goes with it really is what helped me get it all down.

Here's the two part Xenogears video done by YouTube user: Terracorrupt

Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DadAepW4LD8

Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOaNr6jUuqQ


I feel like every time I re-watch them, I get it more and more and are able to make connections better. Honestly now that I see the big/whole picture I really want to give this game a replay to experience the finder details. I now whole heartedly appreciate the story and what the scenario writers were hoping to achieve int his game. I also really respect the translation to get it there.


Here's the Chrono Trigger/Cross videos, also great and gives me greater appreciation for that story line as well.

Trigger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl6Uqb9cJag

Cross
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbs9OVW2s0k

Further details
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1OQ7oxrXAs


I would hope to see these games released again on PC or Mobile to give them a replay with a few enhancements like the recent Final Fantasy releases. If you have a Vita/PSP I'd highly recommend them both, as they make better portable experiences than sit down in front of your TV and play this old pixelated game experiences.
 
Bow before Hiromichi Tanaka and realize that which is his GLORY.

Sorry, sorry.

Really though, the man's a battle system genius.
 
Awesome! Will check this out. I've played through Xenogears at least three times and feel like I get a lot of it, but there's still some parts I don't understand. I played Chrono Cross for the first time 4 or 5 years ago and I feel like there is a bunch of stuff I missed out on.
 

Syril

Member
I wonder how many players in Japan understood the plot of Chrono Cross without that giant block of straight exposition we had.
 

Phatcorns

Member
On long car trips I will sometimes youtube random games that I'm feeling nostalgic about and that's how I found this dude's videos. Can vouch that they are fucking awesome
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Takahashi and Soraya Saga are geniuses. Will definitely give the Xenogears videos a watch, thanks OP.

Still haven't played Crono Cross though.
 
There used to be a poster named Zeality on GameFAQS who explained the Chrono Trigger/Cross timeline/dimensions better than anyone I've ever heard. I think he actually runs a fan site, chronocompendium.com. Not sure if it still exists.

Once you understand how it all ties together, you'll appreciate Cross for the brilliant game it truly is, and a worthy sequel to Trigger.
 

Ishida

Banned
I hope this helps the people who still rant about the best game of all time, Chrono Cross. :)

I'm a walking Chrono encyclopaedia.
 
I don't necessarily know if the storyline itself in Chrono Cross was really my problem with it, it was more with the way it was told.

Namely, having little-to-no character development for most of the game (because your pool of potential party members was so huge, it would be impossible for them to have lots of "character moments"). Then there's the fact that most of Chrono Cross doesn't seem to make a lot of sense until you get down to the last act where it finally explains what's going on.

Just because you can untangle the timeline doesn't make that any more palatable.
 

Dizzy-4U

Member
Good memories. I remember spending weeks on fanpages (The Ethos HQ? Or God and Mind? Can't remember.) reading all the profiles and summaries trying to put the missing pieces together.

I tried to get Perfect Works so many times but it was always way too expensive. I had to settle with the translated scans. I'm still looking for it though, I bet is like 5 million dollars by now.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
I love the Xenogears story, even with some of its flaws.

Chrono Cross' story is complex, but in my opinion not very good.

Good memories. I remember spending weeks on fanpages (The Ethos HQ? Or God and Mind? Can't remember.) reading all the profiles and summaries trying to put the missing pieces together.

I tried to get Perfect Works so many times but it was always way too expensive. I had to settle with the translated scans. I'm still looking for it though, I bet is like 5 million dollars by now.

Perfect Works had a recent reprint.
 

zbarron

Member
You enjoyed the graphics in Xenogears? Even at the time I felt they were bad, mostly the characters. I didn't understand the difference between sprites and polygons but I could barely make out their faces. It was only a few years ago I stopped seeing booger-Grahf.

That said, great game one of my favorites. Thanks for the thread.
 

Muffdraul

Member
Some of my fondest gaming memories were hanging out at the Xenogears forum at leamonde.net in 1999/2000 and watching the story slowly get sorted out in discussions with people who had a copy of Perfect Works and could actually read it. The story was already a big enough mindfuck in the game itself, but it just kept getting bigger and fuckier. Re-playing Xenosaga right now for the first time in many years I'm realizing how much I've forgotten about then whole thing.
 

Asd202

Member
Xenogears music is amazing just as I remembered. We not getting the full game Takahashi wanted remains my biggest gaming regret.
 

Ishida

Banned
Just now? My life has virtually revolved around waiting on a new Chrono game. Xeno, eh, it's clear what they're doing with that franchise and I'm not a huge fan.

To be honest, have you even stopped to imagine where the plot of a new Chrono game would go? Sure, Chrono Cross ends on some kind of cliffhanger (In a way), but what else could they do?
 
To be honest, have you even stopped to imagine where the plot of a new Chrono game would go? Sure, Chrono Cross ends on some kind of cliffhanger (In a way), but what else could they do?

I don't care. People always say "dude they'd fuck it up" but I'd rather they at least try than do nothing at all. Storytelling ideas have zero limits and they can always create a new universe like they did with Cross. It had connections but was largely its own thing and it didn't really start to gel with Trigger until later. I liked Cross but I didn't like all the party members as it made it lack focus and character development for a smaller, stronger group and I utterly despised playing as Lynx for as long as they story required.

The prospect of a new Chrono excites me more than the prospect of getting a new one that is potentially bad or even terrible. I'd rather they try. I know you seem to be strictly talking about story, but, again-- there's no limits, especially with time travel. I expect time travel plots to be convoluted as fuck but I like them, I even liked FFXIII-2 and its story a lot.
 

Ishida

Banned
I don't care. People always say "dude they'd fuck it up" but I'd rather they at least try than do nothing at all. Storytelling ideas have zero limits and they can always create a new universe like they did with Cross. It had connections but was largely its own thing and it didn't really start to gel with Trigger until later. I liked Cross but I didn't like all the party members as it made it lack focus and character development for a smaller, stronger group and I utterly despised playing as Lynx for as long as they story required.

The prospect of a new Chrono excites me more than the prospect of getting a new one that is potentially bad or even terrible. Again I'd rather they try. I know you seem to be strictly talking about story, but, again-- there's no limits, especially with time travel. I expect time travel plots to be convoluted as fuck but I like them, I even liked FFXIII-2 and its story a lot.

One idea I've been having for many many years now is that a new Chrono game would take place in the future of the new timeline. We actually know very little of the new future, outside of the existence of a "Central Regime", Chronopolis and FATE. It'd be interesting to explore this new future, and the consequences of all the time and dimensional traveling done in the previous games.

What I DON'T want, however, is a "Chrono Trigger 2" or a "Chrono Cross 2".
 

sensui-tomo

Member
To be honest, have you even stopped to imagine where the plot of a new Chrono game would go? Sure, Chrono Cross ends on some kind of cliffhanger (In a way), but what else could they do?

Something with Belthasar, Gaspar, Melchior,. otherwise i dont know
 
What I DON'T want, however, is a "Chrono Trigger 2" or a "Chrono Cross 2".

Oh, I do. I so do. More Chrono Trigger 2 than Cross 2, but if it's Chrono Subtitle that's fine as well. I just want a new game in that universe, even if the cast and story is different. If it isn't different and we get familiar faces and plot threads, that's fine too. I'm literally an open whore prostitute when it comes to Chrono; I'll take it if they make it.
 
To be honest, have you even stopped to imagine where the plot of a new Chrono game would go? Sure, Chrono Cross ends on some kind of cliffhanger (In a way), but what else could they do?

As long as they get the Dream Team back together (Toriyama I can take or leave), I don't care what direction they go with it. Nobody else should touch that franchise, however.
 

Ishida

Banned
Something with Belthasar, Gaspar, Melchior,. otherwise i dont know

Well, Belthasar is still a major player in the Chrono world. Heck, this dude manipulated thousands of human generations in order to carry out Project Kid. He seems extremely megalomaniac to me.

Perhaps a new Chrono game could deal with the consequences of Belthasar's actions and his sort-of-god-complex?

As long as they get the Dream Team back together (Toriyama I can take or leave), I don't care what direction they go with it. Nobody else should touch that franchise, however.

I'd be happy if they just got Masato Kato and Yasunori Mitsuda back.
 

Ralemont

not me
To be honest, have you even stopped to imagine where the plot of a new Chrono game would go? Sure, Chrono Cross ends on some kind of cliffhanger (In a way), but what else could they do?

You could have said the same thing about Trigger. Sure, Schala's fate was left up in the air, but that wasn't a very big question until Cross made it one, and did a whole bunch of crazy shit besides.

Personally, I'd want a smaller game that details the fall of Guardia, but not one that prevents it. A game where, say, Crono and company keep going back in time to try and change Guardia's fate, but every time they do the future becomes even worse. Ultimately they choose to accept their destruction, because they also see that another Chrono Trigger is coming soon (Serge) who can fix things.

Alternative third Chrono story: Save Harle!
Just because you can untangle the timeline doesn't make that any more palatable.

It does, because everything ends up making sense. Chrono Cross, for all its convolutions, doesn't have any plot holes, which is a monumental testament to the amount of work that Kato put into planning the story out. Yes the explanations at the end of the game are rushed, but ultimately Cross proves to be an internally consistent story, which is more than you could say even for Trigger.
 
Now that I have Xenosaga under my belt, I plan on replaying Xenogears and then using these videos to catch me up on the full picture. Thanks for the heads up to the videos OP.
 

Ishida

Banned
You could have said the same thing about Trigger. Sure, Schala's fate was left up in the air, but that wasn't a very big question until Cross made it one, and did a whole bunch of crazy shit besides.

Personally, I'd want a smaller game that details the fall of Guardia, but not one that prevents it. A game where, say, Crono and company keep going back in time to try and change Guardia's fate, but every time they do the future becomes even worse. Ultimately they choose to accept their destruction, because they also see that another Chrono Trigger is coming soon (Serge) who can fix things.

To be honest I'd prefer an entirely new cast. A new game that expands on the Chrono world lore without retreading too much. I honestly don't want "the new adventures of the CT cast, but older!".
 

sensui-tomo

Member
You could have said the same thing about Trigger. Sure, Schala's fate was left up in the air, but that wasn't a very big question until Cross made it one, and did a whole bunch of crazy shit besides.

Personally, I'd want a smaller game that details the fall of Guardia, but not one that prevents it. A game where, say, Crono and company keep going back in time to try and change Guardia's fate, but every time they do the future becomes even worse. Ultimately they choose to accept their destruction, because they also see that another Chrono Trigger is coming soon (Serge) who can fix things.

I kind of want that kind of game, except with accepting Lavos and its destruction of the planet. Hell the planet itself is an asshole as seen in CC. Also Fall of Guardia could be easily fixed.
STAB DALTON THROUGH THE FACE
 
Well, Belthasar is still a major player in the Chrono world. Heck, this dude manipulated thousands of human generations in order to carry out Project Kid. He seems extremely megalomaniac to me.

Perhaps a new Chrono game could deal with the consequences of Belthasar's actions and his sort-of-god-complex?



I'd be happy if they just got Masato Kato and Yasunori Mitsuda back.

God complex or not, Devouring all of space time is a dick move.

To be honest, I don't love that surpise villain. I love the tie in, but I felt like a lot of it was lazily handled with a text dump and then they just threw Lavos in your face... whos motivations are just confusing. Seems like eating all of space time would really deplete the food source... which I thought was kind of Lavos' thing. Spawning and eating and absorbing DNA.
 

georly

Member
I hope this helps the people who still rant about the best game of all time, Chrono Cross. :)

I'm a walking Chrono encyclopaedia.

Yeah, I beat it when it came out and it made no sense to 13 year-old me. Haven't played it sense. This will be good, I hope.
 

Teknoman

Member
After playing it to completion, Xenogears isnt really that hard to understand. There is a ton of backstory of course.

Now Chrono Cross? I still need to get to that. Started and stopped it multiple times ( due to me being indecisive about what character I want to use).
 

Ishida

Banned
God complex or not, Devouring all of space time is a dick move.

To be honest, I don't love that surpise villain. I love the tie in, but I felt like a lot of it was lazily handled with a text dump and then they just threw Lavos in your face... whos motivations are just confusing. Seems like eating all of space time would really deplete the food source... which I thought was kind of Lavos' thing. Spawning and eating and absorbing DNA.

Well, we don't exactly know how the
Time Devourer works. Maybe after eating all space time it becomes some sort of omnipotent god that transcends... Everything? Who knows. All we were told is that such douchebag would annihilate us all and had to be stopped. :p

Belthasar is some sort of anti-hero in the Cross story. Sure, he came up with a (overly convoluted) plan to save Schala and to kill Lavos, but in order to do that he had to manipulate the lives of millions of humans and drop an entire city from another dimension into our own.

Belthasar is kind of a massive jackass.
 

Taruranto

Member
Gears story is pretty easy to understand, the amount of information in the CD2 can be hard to digest, but most stuff are pretty straightforward, I'd argue.

CC story is just a convulsed mess, it's Kato's CT fanfiction and it's full of contradictions and stupid shit.
 

daveo42

Banned
Thanks for the vid link OP. Now I've got the itch to play Xenogears again just to experience the story beats again and digest what it has to offer. Really need to grab that book at some point too.
 

Muffdraul

Member
Gears story is pretty easy to understand, the amount of information in the CD2 can be hard to digest, but most stuff are pretty straightforward, I'd argue.

Oh, yeah. All of the details about the Wave Existence, the Archetype, the Anti-Type, the Compliment, the Contact, Kadonomy, pretty straightforward. Child's play. Totally dude.

It might seem straightforward with years of living with it in hindsight, but for a newbie... yeah I don't think so.
 

georly

Member
Ok, I missed *ALL* of this when playing chrono cross. Jesus that game's story is insane.

Edit: Wait Lynx
is Serge's Dad!?
 
A new Chrono game with a brand new concept and a new cast would be amazing. It's been so long though.

Back in the day, I developed a short Chrono Trigger ROM hack starring Magus during his time as the Prophet in Zeal. It's about 3 hours long. Check it out maybe: Prophet's Guile

I also co-developed Crimson Echoes, a full-length Chrono Trigger ROM hack set between Trigger and Cross. You might know about it and the whole SE C&D stuff. The so-called "98%" complete version of the game is floating around though.

I'm proud of what Agent 12, Zeality and I were able to do, but of course if we had the resources and know-how back then we would have done a brand new Chrono game set after Cross, instead of recycling the Trigger cast and assets. Zeality had a concept for a new story involving King Zeal trying to ascend to Zurvan, the sea of dreams.
 
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