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I now understand Xenogears and Chrono Cross and YOU CAN TOO!

DJIzana

Member
Would be nice if the FF7 Remake does as well as hoped that maybe that might inspire other people at Square to return to this universe. I honestly don't care if the same people are involved or not. I'd like to see Yasunori Mitsuda stick around but even then, it's not a make or break situation for me...

I too, would rather have a new game in the series (sequel or just a new entry all together). I enjoyed Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross equally. I'm honestly not as gung ho or entitled as some people deem a game with a new team is instant failure. I would also like to seem them try. Just love the universe, the music, the characters etc.
 

Adam Prime

hates soccer, is Mexican
Now that I have Xenosaga under my belt, I plan on replaying Xenogears and then using these videos to catch me up on the full picture. Thanks for the heads up to the videos OP.

I would honestly recommend to watch the videos first, THEN play the game. It may sound insane to "spoil" yourself with the whole plot, but I actually think it more be more helpful in this game. You'd be able to enjoy all the story beats and details. I mean even if you watch the videos beforehand, it wont make much sense but at least give you insight in the overall plot.

I dunno maybe that's a terrible idea. I haven't played the game since Inwas 16, I had a pretty vague idea what it was about on a large scale after I was done playing.
 

Ralemont

not me
Gears story is pretty easy to understand, the amount of information in the CD2 can be hard to digest, but most stuff are pretty straightforward, I'd argue.

CC story is just a convulsed mess, it's Kato's CT fanfiction and it's full of contradictions and stupid shit.

This is a funny thing to say, because while not nearly as convoluted, Trigger has way more plot problems than Cross. This is directly a result of different people writing different sections of the game, as opposed to Kato being able to plan out the entirety of Cross.

Here's a compendium section on Chrono plot inconsistencies: https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Plot_Inconsistencies.html
 
A new Chrono game with a brand new concept and a new cast would be amazing. It's been so long though.

Back in the day, I developed a short Chrono Trigger ROM hack starring Magus during his time as the Prophet in Zeal. It's about 3 hours long. Check it out maybe: Prophet's Guile

I also co-developed Crimson Echoes, a full-length Chrono Trigger ROM hack set between Trigger and Cross. You might know about it and the whole SE C&D stuff. The so-called "98%" complete version of the game is floating around though.

I'm proud of what Agent 12, Zeality and I were able to do, but of course if we had the resources and know-how back then we would have done a brand new Chrono game set after Cross, instead of recycling the Trigger cast and assets. Zeality had a concept for a new story involving King Zeal trying to ascend to Zurvan, the sea of dreams.

That was you?? Dude, you and Zeality were my heroes back in the day! Did you have anything to do with the "Chrono Resurrection" project that got shut down by SE?
 

Asd202

Member
I would honestly recommend to watch the videos first, THEN play the game. It may sound insane to "spoil" yourself with the whole plot, but I actually think it more be more helpful in this game. You'd be able to enjoy all the story beats and details. I mean even if you watch the videos beforehand, it wont make much sense but at least give you insight in the overall plot.

I dunno maybe that's a terrible idea. I haven't played the game since Inwas 16, I had a pretty vague idea what it was about on a large scale after I was done playing.

Better to play the game first and then watch this video IMO.
 

Muffdraul

Member
I would honestly recommend to watch the videos first, THEN play the game. It may sound insane to "spoil" yourself with the whole plot, but I actually think it more be more helpful in this game. You'd be able to enjoy all the story beats and details. I mean even if you watch the videos beforehand, it wont make much sense but at least give you insight in the overall plot.

I dunno maybe that's a terrible idea. I haven't played the game since Inwas 16, I had a pretty vague idea what it was about on a large scale after I was done playing.

Oh wow I would never recommend that. One of my favorite memories of the first time I played Xenogears was how for almost the entire game I kept wondering "So WTF does the intro cutscene have to do with ANY of this??? Did they just put that at the beginning because it looked cool?" And then finally finding almost at the very end and going "Oooohhhh..."
 

Ralemont

not me
Certainly don't spoil Cross for yourself. For one, it was basically built for replays, with alternate endings, carried-over party cast, and the godly fast-forward button, which makes replays a joyful breeze. Play first, then read up/watch videos, then replay to understand everything.
 
Well, we don't exactly know how the
Time Devourer works. Maybe after eating all space time it becomes some sort of omnipotent god that transcends... Everything? Who knows. All we were told is that such douchebag would annihilate us all and had to be stopped. :p

Belthasar is some sort of anti-hero in the Cross story. Sure, he came up with a (overly convoluted) plan to save Schala and to kill Lavos, but in order to do that he had to manipulate the lives of millions of humans and drop an entire city from another dimension into our own.

Belthasar is kind of a massive jackass.

So. The Arbiter is the last one to touch the Frozen Flame, or Lavos' Essense, and the Prometheus Circuit bars all but the Arbiter from entry to said essence. So as a mediator between Lavos and humans the Arbiters goal is to lead humanity on it's continued evolution, which Lavos had already guided since 65,000,000,000 BC... as a means to harvest their delicious magic infused bodies.

I guess... the idea was that Serge could recontact the Flame, which could only be communicated with by him, so that he could find counsel with the Time Devourer who at this point likely disagrees with Serge's methods as it seems to involve ripping away most of his power and destroying him.

The best I've put together (not by myself by any means, I'm a dumb butt) is that Schala was also an Arbiter who got a little too selfless for humanity and was absorbed. Now he is also looking to absorb Serge and transcend to max potential? ...

Uhm. Why did Serge need to be the one to touch the flame? Why can't anyone be an Arbiter? Like... a lot earlier. Why does Schala react to Serge's crying and cause the storm that culminated in his contact? What's so special about Serge other than his 50/50 divide? You'd think there'd be others but maybe not. Belthasar manipulates uncountable generations to get to Serge whom he believes to be the true key... but the fact that they don't explain WHY really does make Belthasar seem misguided. If I knew why waiting all this time for Serge was important then I would think he was the true hero, sacrificing millions to save infinitely more, a sacrifice no one should have to weigh on them. He would be the one who did what needed to be done, instead of the guy who seems like he doesn't understand the value of a human life anymore.

All the unanswered questions and blatant text dumps at the end make it obvious there was something grander planned but hey just had too many eggs in one basket. Or maybe the fact that it came out just 6 months before the PS2s debut meant it was sent into hyper rush... but it's just a damn shame. The game is convoluted and it's pacing is something else, but honestly it has most of the puzzle pieces to be truly grandiose. But instead it'll be absolutely adored by a niche audience who recognizes how close it was to being a universal classic.

God, this games ambition was something marvelous.
 

georly

Member
God, watching the trigger/cross stuff makes me even MORE sad that the franchise basically died with cross in 99. I'd love cross to get the ff7 ps4 treatment and for a true sequel to come out. Ugh i miss that franchise so much.
 
It's really a shame that Xenogears' story, probably the most complex ever in a videogame, turned out being obfuscating on two layers (intentionally from the out-of-order storytelling, and unintentionally from the budget-constrained, hugely compressed last quarter). It really says something that one of these recap videos contains a recap itself.

These videos are pretty good and do an excellent job of making the incredibly detailed story approachable thanks to the chronological order. Even if thanks to other authors and PW translations I mostly had the entirety of the story in my head, I still got a couple things from them that I had missed until now.
 

Taruranto

Member
This is a funny thing to say, because while not nearly as convoluted, Trigger has way more plot problems than Cross. This is directly a result of different people writing different sections of the game, as opposed to Kato being able to plan out the entirety of Cross.

Here's a compendium section on Chrono plot inconsistencies: https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Plot_Inconsistencies.html

I know CC plot.You don't have to link the wiki to me. CC isn't even consistent with its own rules like "Discarded Timelines Principle".

Wait, you know what? I have better things to do than argue about CC plot. If you want to declare CC the most consistent piece of fiction written by humany, be my guest. I really don't feel like getting into a discussion about it.


Oh, yeah. All of the details about the Wave Existence, the Archetype, the Anti-Type, the Compliment, the Contact, Kadonomy, pretty straightforward. Child's play. Totally dude.

It might seem straightforward with years of living with it in hindsight, but when it was a current game... yeah I don't think so.

There are some details in the backstory that can be hard to grasp and like I said some of the wall of texts in CD2 can be hard to digest all at once, but I consider the main plot pretty well explained in the game.

The most confusing aspects of Gears plot are probably the Vessels of Anima/Animus/Persona, which I'll admit confused the fuck out of me back them.

I don't see how stuff like the Wave Existence (clearly explained in game) or the Anty-type (just a title at the end of the day) or Deus purpose are hard to understand.

To be honest, FFVII plot was harder to understand than Xenogears to me.
 
Belthasar manipulates uncountable generations to get to Serge whom he believes to be the true key... but the fact that they don't explain WHY really does make Belthasar seem misguided.

In the Japanese version of the game, Belthasar actually admitted that the Time Crash was an accident and that he didn't really expect it. It sort of seemed like part of Project Kid was planned but not all of it. When Richard Honeywood consulted with Masato Kato for the English localization of the game, Kato added a bunch of explanations to the English version and Belthasar now comes across as all-knowing. Maybe that was Kato's intention all along, but I have the impression his role was increased in the English version as a way to make the plot "foolproof".

Why does Schala react to Serge's crying and cause the storm that culminated in his contact? What's so special about Serge other than his 50/50 divide?

Serge is Schala's soul mate. The meaning of the live-action ending is supposed to be that you are Serge's real-life counterpart and there is a Schala real-life counterpart out there looking for you. Serge and Schala are basically searching for each other forever in every dimension including all the various Radical Dreamers scenarios.
 

qcf x2

Member
One idea I've been having for many many years now is that a new Chrono game would take place in the future of the new timeline. We actually know very little of the new future, outside of the existence of a "Central Regime", Chronopolis and FATE. It'd be interesting to explore this new future, and the consequences of all the time and dimensional traveling done in the previous games.

What I DON'T want, however, is a "Chrono Trigger 2" or a "Chrono Cross 2".

It could be before. The beauty of the Chrono series is in the name. They can go as far back as they want to and still add time travel elements. ;)
 

Ranma

Member
saw these video a while ago (also linked the xenogears ones in a LTTP topic).

Brilliant games, loved both.
 
In the Japanese version of the game, Belthasar actually admitted that the Time Crash was an accident and that he didn't really expect it. It sort of seemed like part of Project Kid was planned but not all of it. When Richard Honeywood consulted with Masato Kato for the English localization of the game, Kato added a bunch of explanations to the English version and Belthasar now comes across as all-knowing. Maybe that was Kato's intention all along, but I have the impression his role was increased in the English version as a way to make the plot "foolproof".



Serge is Schala's soul mate. The meaning of the live-action ending is supposed to be that you are Serge's real-life counterpart and there is a Schala real-life counterpart out there looking for you. Serge and Schala are basically searching for each other forever in every dimension including all the various Radical Dreamers scenarios.

I'll have to read into that first part!

But as for the second... I think that's lazy. It's a reason, and it's a valid answer, but I think saying "Just cause he is special like her" is uninspired. It's the Chosen One syndrome. :( And I hate to say that, Chrono Cross is my #2 GOAT.
 

Ralemont

not me
But as for the second... I think that's lazy. It's a reason, and it's a valid answer, but I think saying "Just cause he is special like her" is uninspired. It's the Chosen One syndrome. :( And I hate to say that, Chrono Cross is my #2 GOAT.

I don't think it's lazy. I think it reflects Cross's central theme of duality. Parallel worlds, parallel selves. The concept of a soul mate plays in perfectly there. I also think it's beautiful that the crying of a child is the one thing Schala was able to hear through her deepening madness, and that eventually that child would come and save not only her but her other self in Kid.

Wait, you know what? I have better things to do than argue about CC plot. If you want to declare CC the most consistent piece of fiction written by humany, be my guest. I really don't feel like getting into a discussion about it.

No one is forcing you to talk about CC. But if you do decide to post about it, don't be surprised if someone asks you to explain yourself. Contrary to your strawman I don't think CC is entirely consistent, but that doesn't mean it's littered with "contradictions." What's your problem with the Discarded Timelines Principle?
 
The whole reason Xenogears was and still is tied with Legend of Dragoon as my favorite GOAT is simply because I understood mostly everything when I first played it at 13. I also had a tradition to play it from start to finish every once a year until I was 17.

Just such a shame that squeenix (or rather Squaresoft) didn't gave Xenogears a second chance. I still think it's their biggest mistake next to making FF Spirits Within.
 
I don't think it's lazy. I think it reflects Cross's central theme of duality. Parallel worlds, parallel selves. The concept of a soul mate plays in perfectly there. I also think it's beautiful that the crying of a child is the one thing Schala was able to hear through her deepening madness, and that eventually that child would come and save not only her but her other self in Kid.

If its a case of duality than Serge should have someone that mirrors him, like Kid/Schala. Kid is Schala's parallel, her other. But Serge is simply her soul mate... reflecting no one.

I wish there was another case of soulmates prior. The game takes so long explaining itself that it seems too convenient to wave it away with "they're bonded." Why are they bonded? Is it just something that The World's conscience decides?

Unfortunately I can't think of anyone Schala interacted with besides Janus and her mother. So it's not like it could be some kind of previous self relation without bailing on the romance.

(I know Kid is a clone, and that's why Serge doesn't have an other too.)

Of course it's all opinion. But I really like talking about it with you guys! I'm just trying to be critical, even with the things I covet.
 

Ralemont

not me
The whole reason Xenogears was and still is tied with Legend of Dragoon as my favorite GOAT is simply because I understood mostly everything when I first played it at 13. I also had a tradition to play it from start to finish every once a year until I was 17.

Just such a shame that squeenix (or rather Squaresoft) didn't gave Xenogears a second chance. I still think it's their biggest mistake next to making FF Spirits Within.

If there is one game that needs a fleshed-out remake, it isn't Final Fantasy 7 but Xenogears. A real disc 2 would truly make that one of the all-timers in my book.
 

Muffdraul

Member
There are some details in the backstory that can be hard to grasp and like I said some of the wall of texts in CD2 can be hard to digest all at once, but I consider the main plot pretty well explained in the game.

If by the main plot you mean "Fei & co. went to [place], they eventually fought [boss] and gained possession of [key item]," sure. The plot itself is just a series of events that anyone should understand if they're not drowsy or doped up while they're playing. I'm talking about the nitty gritty nuts and bolts of WHY things are happening and what put things into motion. Something can be "pretty well explained" and yet still relatively difficult to understand due to its overall scope and complexity. You can focus on any specific aspect of the story and say "See, that's not too tough to figure out." I'm talking about putting all of the parts together and truly understanding how they fit and affect each other in the big picture. Saying "I think it was actually pretty straight forward" sounds disingenuous to me, smacks of stealth-brag. No offense.
 

poodaddy

Gold Member
Is there a transcript of the videos anywhere? Would love to read this but can't really watch videos right now.
 

Psxphile

Member
Man, this just makes me want a third Chrono game and a remake of Xenogears now.
I'm game.

To be honest, have you even stopped to imagine where the plot of a new Chrono game would go? Sure, Chrono Cross ends on some kind of cliffhanger (In a way), but what else could they do?
It's high time the Chrono series touched on how the power of dreams and thought can shape/affect/transcend the boundaries of space and time. Feels like something that's only been vaguely hinted at in the previous games. Naturally, a new cast would be necessary.
 

Ralemont

not me
(I know Kid is a clone, and that's why Serge doesn't have an other too.)

Well, Serge's other doesn't exist because his other is dead, and for that he is the reason everyone else has an other. He's responsible for Schala's split because she creates Kid to save him, and he's the reason the other characters have an other because it's his death/survival that splits the timelines. In that sense he himself is something of a foreigner. The true timeline is the one where he died, so he doesn't even belong in the world anymore, like Schala. The ending of the game resolves with both Serge and Schala being re-assimilated into the true timeline as the parallel dimensions become one again. They are both reborn by the same event. So yeah you're right. Practically, there's not reeeeally a reason why it had to be Serge. Thematically I think it works really well.

Also, if I really wanted to smoke some weed and go chest-high in symbolism, we could talk awhile about Lynx being Serge's other, especially considering you spend the majority of the game as Lynx, lol. I'm not quite willing to go there now, though.
 

Muffdraul

Member
Does this mean the myth that Cross isn't a true sequel is finally dead now? Because after 16 years, it needs to be killed.

The problem is that the director of CC was the one who first made the claim that it wasn't a sequel. Fans will always be able to point to that. Annoying.
 

Ninjimbo

Member
I pretty much got the gist of CC's plot my first run through. It's a bit complicated but I never felt overwhelmed by any of it. I thought it was easy to follow to be honest.
 
Well, Serge's other doesn't exist because his other is dead, and for that he is the reason everyone else has an other. He's responsible for Schala's split because she creates Kid to save him, and he's the reason the other characters have an other because it's his death/survival that splits the timelines. In that sense he himself is something of a foreigner. The true timeline is the one where he died, so he doesn't even belong in the world anymore, like Schala. The ending of the game resolves with both Serge and Schala being re-assimilated into the true timeline as the parallel dimensions become one again. They are both reborn by the same event. So yeah you're right. Practically, there's not reeeeally a reason why it had to be Serge. Thematically I think it works really well.

Also, if I really wanted to smoke some weed and go chest-high in symbolism, we could talk awhile about Lynx being Serge's other, especially considering you spend the majority of the game as Lynx, lol. I'm not quite willing to go there now, though.

I think reading that makes me mostly okay with it. Maybe like "When Schala was removed the only way to create balance was creating Serge," like Dinopolis was dragged in when Chronopolis came into being. If I can rationalize it that way I'm pretty happy.

Lynx would be Serge's "other" if he wasn't his father. Which is hyper critical information that's woefully optional.

I love your avatar, btw.
 
Good memories. I remember spending weeks on fanpages (The Ethos HQ? Or God and Mind? Can't remember.) reading all the profiles and summaries trying to put the missing pieces together.

I tried to get Perfect Works so many times but it was always way too expensive. I had to settle with the translated scans. I'm still looking for it though, I bet is like 5 million dollars by now.

When my wife and I were still dating (2003) she knew that Xenogears was pretty much my favorite game ever. I used to replay it every year or so since it came out and she remembered me talking about a book called Perfect Works and how cool I thought it would be to own it. She ended up moving to Tokyo through a program at our college to help teach an English class for a semester. I used to call her almost every night when she'd get off work for hours, and even though I was worried at the time, we kept a long distance relationship going. So before the end of her semester, I ended up going to visit her in Tokyo for two weeks. The very first night I arrived, we go to her apartment and what does she give me? A brand new copy of Perfect Works. She had been there for almost five months when I went to visit her and we talked almost every day until then. She told me she went out and bought the book within the first week of her there, and kept it a secret the whole time. Anytime I have introduced a friend of mine to Xenogears and they have completed it, I've pulled that book out to look through with them. I can't read it, but it's probably the best gift anyone was ever given me. I had to marry her after that.
 
When my wife and I were still dating (2003) she knew that Xenogears was pretty much my favorite game ever. I used to replay it every year or so since it came out and she remembered me talking about a book called Perfect Works and how cool I thought it would be to own it. She ended up moving to Tokyo through a program at our college to help teach an English class for a semester. I used to call her almost every night when she'd get off work for hours, and even though I was worried at the time, we kept a long distance relationship going. So before the end of her semester, I ended up going to visit her in Tokyo for two weeks. The very first night I arrived, we go to her apartment and what does she give me? A brand new copy of Perfect Works. She had been there for almost five months when I went to visit her and we talked almost every day until then. She told me she went out and bought the book within the first week of her there, and kept it a secret the whole time. Anytime I have introduced a friend of mine to Xenogears and they have completed it, I've pulled that book out to look through with them. I can't read it, but it's probably the best gift anyone was ever given me. I had to marry her after that.

I bought myself a copy of PW over 10 years ago. beautiful book.
 
Most of the stuff for xenogears i knee already..
But this video should make people realize that there are games and GAMES..
I've yet to see another games with the same depth and width of xenogears..
I mean it you he's pretty much everything..
Racism and segregation
Exploitation of the poor..
Cannibalism (wels)
Religion manipolating people
Political strife
Caste system (battlers arena, with restricted resources based on your rank)
Coming of age (fei slowly realizing his love for elly through pretty much 1/3 of the game)
Heck it even has child exploitation hinted (billy selling is body when he was young)
All of this on top of TERRIFIC OST and a battle system which is still great even today..

If only they had more budget, they could give us even disc 2 in its full glory..

If They Pulled nowdays a xenogears disc2 gamers would be outraged, but conversely given nowdays cost for games, i Doubt We'll see a game with this scope..
Xenosaga tried with mixed result and an unfinished story, though it culminated in xenosaga 3 which is admittedly One of the best jrpg i've played :/
 
Curious! Why do you think there would be outrage? I feel like tons of titles have religious commentary, this one just had the balls to say God.
Not for content, bu5 for the clear budget approach with LOTS of part with static image + commentary..
If they did something like that nowdays gamers would just clip out, while earliier fan would jus justify it for lower than necessary budget
 

Synless

Member
Out of curiosity what is it that keeps any sequel being made for Chrono? It sold well enough, it has a good following. They have made sequels for less selling, less rated games... I don't get it.
 

Mifec

Member
I mean you could also have followed the games stories and understood them when you got older if the issue was you playing the game at a younger age.
 

Ishida

Banned
Out of curiosity what is it that keeps any sequel being made for Chrono? It sold well enough, it has a good following. They have made sequels for less selling, less rated games... I don't get it.

Yasunori Mitsuda once claimed that there were a lot of 'politics' that would need to be involved in a creation of a new Chrono game, and that they are just not happening. And it also seems Square doesn't see the franchise as very profitable.
 
Not for content, bu5 for the clear budget approach with LOTS of part with static image + commentary..
If they did something like that nowdays gamers would just clip out, while earliier fan would jus justify it for lower than necessary budget

You're definitely on to something there. Using pre-rendered backgrounds let early disc based JRPGs feel like the fully realized version of the SNES days. Unfortunately it's just too taxing to actually render a world of that scale and variation.

I know The Witcher is huge. But these late '90s games were something else in terms of landmarks.
 
Yasunori Mitsuda once claimed that there were a lot of 'politics' that would need to be involved in a creation of a new Chrono game, and that they are just not happening. And it also seems Square doesn't see the franchise as very profitable.
Oh well..
My gripe.. Is that if i EVER have a child, and if i was to educate him into the world of gaming..
He would not find any gem that shine s brightly as some gems that i've played in my youth...
I've played a LOT of solid games, but even with the rushed disc 2, i'm still in awe for xenogears and i hold it as One of the best rpg EVER done..
See instead the trend of jrpg.. For every SMALL step we move forward, we get more final fantasy xiii style game from square enix...
Oh well i hope it's just some nostalgia Spiel..
 

LOUD915

Member
A new Chrono game with a brand new concept and a new cast would be amazing. It's been so long though.

Back in the day, I developed a short Chrono Trigger ROM hack starring Magus during his time as the Prophet in Zeal. It's about 3 hours long. Check it out maybe: Prophet's Guile

I also co-developed Crimson Echoes, a full-length Chrono Trigger ROM hack set between Trigger and Cross. You might know about it and the whole SE C&D stuff. The so-called "98%" complete version of the game is floating around though.

I'm proud of what Agent 12, Zeality and I were able to do, but of course if we had the resources and know-how back then we would have done a brand new Chrono game set after Cross, instead of recycling the Trigger cast and assets. Zeality had a concept for a new story involving King Zeal trying to ascend to Zurvan, the sea of dreams.

Congrats on your work. I really enjoyed it a few years ago.
 
Out of curiosity what is it that keeps any sequel being made for Chrono? It sold well enough, it has a good following. They have made sequels for less selling, less rated games... I don't get it.

Yasunori Mitsuda once claimed that there were a lot of 'politics' that would need to be involved in a creation of a new Chrono game, and that they are just not happening. And it also seems Square doesn't see the franchise as very profitable.

In an era where Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy releases had huge volumes of Japanese kids playing hooky, Chrono Trigger was an absolute dream come true. Veterans from both series were converging to make something unique that used their entire wealth of experience and artistry.

Chrono Cross didn't feature the same Dream Team. Instead it just included Kato, who was a scenario writer/scripter on Chrono Trigger but now absorbed the responsibilities of direct, scenario, script writing, event planner, and FMV storyboarding, and Mitsuda, who had composed about 4/5 of the CT soundtrack. It just wasn't the same team anymore, so it took on it's own vibe while lending from it's predecessor. It looked and sounded totally different, including a brand new location, and on the surface seemed like virtually NOTHING was related in previews and most of the first half...

Buttttt yeah. Maybe it was misdirect to preserve the surprises? Maybe it was a respect thing in terms of not claiming the groups thing as his own? Maybe it was an odd translation? Idk dude.
 

Taruranto

Member
No one is forcing you to talk about CC. But if you do decide to post about it, don't be surprised if someone asks you to explain yourself. Contrary to your strawman I don't think CC is entirely consistent, but that doesn't mean it's littered with "contradictions." What's your problem with the Discarded Timelines Principle?

Fair enough, maybe I shouldn't have made that post if I wasn't ready to get into a CC discussion with the CC Story Defense force but still, I had enough discussions about why I find CC bad for a lifetime that I really have no wish to get into another 10 pages argument about it.


If by the main plot you mean "Fei & co. went to [place], they eventually fought [boss] and gained possession of [key item]," sure. The plot itself is just a series of events that anyone should understand if they're not drowsy or doped up while they're playing. I'm talking about the nitty gritty nuts and bolts of WHY things are happening and what put things into motion. Something can be "pretty well explained" and yet still relatively difficult to understand due to its overall scope and complexity. You can focus on any specific aspect of the story and say "See, that's not too tough to figure out." I'm talking about putting all of the parts together and truly understanding how they fit and affect each other in the big picture. Saying "I think it was actually pretty straight forward" sounds disingenuous to me, smacks of stealth-brag. No offense.

No, I understand what you are saying, but I still don't find most of the stuff in Xenogears hard to understand, even the "whys". It is a game with giant wall of text explaining stuff, if people have problem at understanding "the why" of some of the major plot points, well, agree to disagree because I dunno what to tell them.

And inb4 someone avatar quotes me, I love Xenosaga much more than Gears and I have no problem admitting the game plot is confusing as hell. :p
 
Xenogears will forever be one of my favorite gaming memories.
If anyone has some cool art/wallpapers to share that would be cool.
 
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