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[GreyHorace]

Episode 4 - Oh dear...

I thought I was watching Star Trek, not fucking Romulan Ninja Warrior. Look, I know the whole warrior race thing has been done to death in scifi. Hell, Star Trek is probably one of the forerunners on that trope with the Klingons.

But.. what I saw in this episode clashed with what I expect from a Star Trek series in terms of visual tone. Look at this screenshot for example:

Looking at that, you'd be mistaken in thinking it's from some fantasy film or tv show featuring a kickass elf warrior. But nope, that's Picard's new personal Romulan assassin, presumably included to fulfill the series' quota of one kung fu fight per episode. I'm not opposed to the idea, provided you present in a way that doesn't jar with the visual identity of the series as a whole. It's like the showrunners didn't give a fuck on maintaining this consistency. Those scenes with Picard and the Romulan Bene Geneserit looked straight out of a wuxia film.

Compare it with another race of warriors from a recent tv show:

These guys look like they belong in the universe of Star Wars. I can't give Jon Favreau enough credit for retaining the visual identity of the franchise throughout the first season of The Mandalorian. Despite being a production more than 40 years after the Original Trilogy which I feel Favreau took inspiration from, though the series did feature some Prequel elements like the Seperatist Droids.

In contrast, it seems like the showrunners of Picard are just slapping on visual and tonal elements that don't belong in Star Trek. I could go on about how the Romulans here don't feel like the aliens we've known from the previous series, or that stupid romcom ice skating segment on the Borg Cube between Soji and Narek. But for now, the kung fu movie starring Patrick Stewart and his Romulan has to be stupidest thing I've seen from this show.

I wonder what hilarity the next episode will bring.

 

[Melon Husk]

Star Trek Picard: The search for Picard
My review of it is zzzz...

• Even the aspect ratio ain't right. A small scope show like this shouldn't be any wider than 2 : 1.
• The script feels like a first draft. It's like the writers room was filled with yes men and they went and filmed that shit immediately.
• Protagonists are poorly motivated. No point in nitpicking the details because the creators didn't care either.
• Supporting cast introductions are lacking.
• Editing is all over the place. Attempts to jazz up the pacing between A and B plotlines is messy. The flashbacks serve as a crutch to the backstory.

Mute it and let it play in the background as live wallpaper and it's quite good!
edit: I was too harsh, the music is fine. No need to mute the soundtrack.

 

[jdforge]

Hmmmm

I was cautiously optimistic that the slow pace was going to flesh out characters and highlight the strong motives for the characters behaviours.

Episode 4 was just really bad. Not even the surprise at the end, which should have brought me tears of joy fell flat on its arse.

Literally.

I’m really disappointed.

 

[eot]

Ep. 4 bored the hell out of me, I think I might be done with this. It's utterly lifeless.

 

[Ironbunny]

The acting is so bad I pretty much hate all the charecters now. That Rafi and the pilot with hes hologram alter egos are the most annoying ones. And now they are propably gonna screw up Seven of nine too. Picard himself seems so much out of the charecter from what i've known him of from the original series.

This whole thing is starting to feel like a youtube show. Everything seems so off.

 

[WhiskeyDiver]

"You owe a ship Picard"

Bitch...like what? Your ass flew that ship in there on its own. Maybe ya shoulda called State Farm and have that neon green shit dart insured.

 

[Furlong]

Bind your sword to my quest
- actual line in Star Trek Picard

BIND YOUR SWORD TO MY QUEST

LOL. Even the most fantastical fiction was often shaped by a writers life experiences. I don't think this latest generation of writers have had any meaningful life experiences which is why nearly all TV shows and movies feel so shallow and meaningless.

 

[darkinstinct]

It pains me to say, but the worst thing about ST Picard is Picard. I love everything else.

 

[DeafTourette]

I love the show! I'm in the minority (what else is new?) but I like how it looks at a great man and how an incident crushed him and how he's trying to bound back from it.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

i saw this first show, it was alright. a little bit rocky. Picard dream sequence and then OH ITS ACTIN GIRL KICKING BUTT and then back to Picard

lol. but it was cool. i did not appreciate killing her and then being like, oh yeah, she has a twin. feels like they just wanted the shock of her dying but wanted to keep her in the show was just put that in. maybe the pacing was off on that reveal. i don't know, it didn't really work for me.

the cube at the end. wow! cool! but honestly not any percent curious about it, assuming it will be some silly shit.

eh its a tv show. ill watch for the og characters but everything else is kinda eh.

 

[Trogdor1123]

The swearing is really taking away from the show...

 

[Stiflers Mom]

I gave the show the benefit of the doubt so far, but this is really shaping up very very badly.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Also... He isn't "j L". That's just stupid.

 

[PuppetMaster]

This show is bad. It pains me to say it.

The writing is total shit.

 

[Chairman Tickles]

At least we will get some quality red letter media reviews out of this trainwreck. Also Orville season 3.

 

[etp_1]

I kinda liked the first and second episode...but man it took quite a dive.

 

[mcjmetroid]

I love the show! I'm in the minority (what else is new?) but I like how it looks at a great man and how an incident crushed him and how he's trying to bound back from it.

I'm on the fence. Gonna wait for the whole thing to be finished to make a judgement but it would seriously want to do something ast.

It's not like the plot is super engaging so far or anything.

 

[Revolutionary]

Just saw the latest episode

YIKES

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Can we talk about Captain Roguish Manly Man?

I still can't believe they introduced him that way... I honestly had to pause and consider whether the show is meant to partly be a parody.

Let's review his opening scene:

- is sitting shirtless and tatted in the captain's chair
- has a huge piece of shrapnel stuck in his shoulder, no biggie, he's a manly man
- is smoking a fat cigar, of course
- flippantly mocks the health bot to say the shrapnel should be removed
- while pouring himself some manly liquor on the dashboard
- oh thanks, shrapnel is out, but don't heal my gaping wound because I"m that hardcore
- just splashes his alcohol on the bloody wound and moves on

Picard, trying to impress this man's man by going way out of character:
- "I'm not in the habit of consulting lawyers before I do what needs to be done"

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

RLM back back at it

Rich and Mike are back to talk Picard, episodes 2 and 3

 

[Melon Husk]

Can we talk about Captain Roguish Manly Man?

He's hating on his AI companion wayyy too openly. Is he going to be Star Trek's first gay holosexual? Oh my gaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd.

 

[Stouffers]

I gave the show the benefit of the doubt so far, but this is really shaping up very very badly.

A lot of things “shape-up” badly at first. This is a 6 week old fetus:

Gross, right?

This is that same fetus 20 years later:

Give it time.

 

[Ironbunny]

He's hating on his AI companion wayyy too openly. Is he going to be Star Trek's first gay holosexual? Oh my gaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd.

Don't put out such ideas. The writers of the series are most likely hunting the interwebs for the must idiotic ideas to implement

 

[Makariel]

Picard nuTrek has nothing to do with Star Trek. I concur with the RLM video above that this show has little to nothing to do with established Star Trek and I guess departed into the Abramsverse. After 4 episodes I really wonder how much deeper they want to dig themselves in. Even ignoring that it's not Star Trek, it's not even a good Sci-Fi series, especially compared to newer series like the Expanse it just does fall flat. One good thing about nuTrek was that it made me realise that I hadn't seen much of TNG from season 5 onwards yet, so I've been watching those on Netflix on and off. Sad state of affairs if the 30 year old predecessor is a much more interesting series. I'm even thinking that even STD had better individual episodes than Picard so far.

 

[Stouffers]

Picard nuTrek has nothing to do with Star Trek. I concur with the RLM video above that this show has little to nothing to do with established Star Trek and I guess departed into the Abramsverse. After 4 episodes I really wonder how much deeper they want to dig themselves in. Even ignoring that it's not Star Trek, it's not even a good Sci-Fi series, especially compared to newer series like the Expanse it just does fall flat. One good thing about nuTrek was that it made me realise that I hadn't seen much of TNG from season 5 onwards yet, so I've been watching those on Netflix on and off. Sad state of affairs if the 30 year old predecessor is a much more interesting series. I'm even thinking that even STD had better individual episodes than Picard so far.

We’ve had 4

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Wow I saw that bit with the woman giving him shit for having a vineyard when she lives in a trailer park. They serious w this?

We really have nothing to do with Star Trek TNG at this point. Classist bullshit injected into a future where that has supposed long been eliminated.

yuk

 

[DeafTourette]

Wow I saw that bit with the woman giving him shit for having a vineyard when she lives in a trailer park. They serious w this?

We really have nothing to do with Star Trek TNG at this point. Classist bullshit injected into a future where that has supposed long been eliminated.

yuk

Yep. That's a criticism I've had since that episode .... But I think she lives out there because she's seen as a pariah to Starfleet and maybe others and Picard still has his vineyard and still seen as a hero of the federation. She separated herself from most of society because she can't live with the failure that is the botched rescue of the Romulans and her disavowed status at SF.

That's the way I read it. She's disavowed yet Picard is still revered.

 

[Makariel]

We’ve had 4

I liked the first 4 episodes of STD more than the first 4 episodes of Picard. And my main criticism is not addressed by "only 4 episodes, duh", the fact that the Federation in nuTrek has nothing in common with the Federation in Star Trek.

 

[vpance]

This was never going to be on the level of The Expanse, lol. People got their hopes up too much.

Off tangent, I hope Altered Carbon S2 delivers.

 

[Makariel]

This was never going to be on the level of The Expanse, lol. People got their hopes up too much.

The Expanse S1 was a series on the SyFy channel, i.e. the folks who brought us Sharknado. Yeah, I think that shouldn't be a too high bar to cross Hard to get actual numbers but it seems that the first season of the expanse cost around 3.5 to 4 million per episode (source), which is HALF of what for example Star Trek Discovery cost, and I somehow doubt Picard would cost less than half of STD. So given the budget they should be able to afford better writers.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

The Expanse S1 was a series on the SyFy channel, i.e. the folks who brought us Sharknado. Yeah, I think that shouldn't be a too high bar to cross Hard to get actual numbers but it seems that the first season of the expanse cost around 3.5 to 4 million per episode (source), which is HALF of what for example Star Trek Discovery cost, and I somehow doubt Picard would cost less than half of STD. So given the budget they should be able to afford better writers.

The thing I can't quite work out is... from a purely on-paper standpoint, they apparently did hire a relatively heavyweight writer to lead the series: Michael Chabon, who has won his share of awards in the genre. He's also not exactly new to Star Trek fandom, having apparently been an avid viewer since TOS, who knows how to at least namedrop various iconic episodes from each series. See his article in the New Yorker:

The Final Frontier

Personal History by Michael Chabon: I love Mr. Spock because he reminds me of you, I told my father. For the first time that night, I considered the possibility that he was going to survive it.

www.newyorker.com

So I've been giving this a lot of thought. First off, it somewhat speaks against the RedLetterMedia idea that the writers have no knowledge of Trek; this guy at least understands the basics presumably, even choosing to reference The Measure of a Man and Bruce Maddox, which isn't a bad premise for background to a new cybernetics plot. When he lists episodes in the article, they are generally decent picks (e.g., he loves "The Inner Light," which is a great classic Picard episode).

That said, his most damning flaw may be that he seems to approach Star Trek as fantasy rather than as science fiction, and for me there is a HUGE gulf between those, which can never be bridged without utterly demolishing the identity of a franchise ("she's the destroyer" and "bind your sword to my quest" are clearly fantasy garbage in every way).

I also don't think his kind of sci-fi writing accolades add up to much anymore. Unfortunately, science fiction as a genre is filled with idiots today: tons of fantasy writing, lots of awards typically going to whatever seems to mesh the most with current political trends in that crowd, etc.

But at least they tried hire a serious writer, even if they ended up creating a purely serial fantasy space plot with ninja nuns, quests, and rogue captains filled with shrapnel. I'm left wondering exactly where it all went wrong... is it still just the influence of Kurtzman?

 

[Stouffers]

I liked the first 4 episodes of STD more than the first 4 episodes of Picard. And my main criticism is not addressed by "only 4 episodes, duh", the fact that the Federation in nuTrek has nothing in common with the Federation in Star Trek.

Isn’t that kind of the point? StarFleet/ the federation has always been a false utopia and every series has slowly torn down the veil to reveal an organization formed by imperfect beings.. warts and all. The StarFleet is the Jedi of Star Trek. They are not impervious to corruption.

 

[Fuz]

For once I like something, you bastards have to go and ruin it.

 

[Stouffers]

For once I like something, you bastards have to go and ruin it.

Most of you guys weren’t around for the first season of TNG. There was also a lot of “MUH TREK!”

 

[GreyHorace]

The thing I can't quite work out is... from a purely on-paper standpoint, they apparently did hire a relatively heavyweight writer to lead the series: Michael Chabon, who has won his share of awards in the genre. He's also not exactly new to Star Trek fandom, having apparently been an avid viewer since TOS, who knows how to at least namedrop various iconic episodes from each series. See his article in the New Yorker:

The Final Frontier

Personal History by Michael Chabon: I love Mr. Spock because he reminds me of you, I told my father. For the first time that night, I considered the possibility that he was going to survive it.

www.newyorker.com

So I've been giving this a lot of thought. First off, it somewhat speaks against the RedLetterMedia idea that the writers have no knowledge of Trek; this guy at least understands the basics presumably, even choosing to reference The Measure of a Man and Bruce Maddox, which isn't a bad premise for background to a new cybernetics plot. When he lists episodes in the article, they are generally decent picks (e.g., he loves "The Inner Light," which is a great classic Picard episode).

That said, his most damning flaw may be that he seems to approach Star Trek as fantasy rather than as science fiction, and for me there is a HUGE gulf between those, which can never be bridged without utterly demolishing the identity of a franchise ("she's the destroyer" and "bind your sword to my quest" are clearly fantasy garbage in every way).

I also don't think his kind of sci-fi writing accolades add up to much anymore. Unfortunately, science fiction as a genre is filled with idiots today: tons of fantasy writing, lots of awards typically going to whatever seems to mesh the most with current political trends in that crowd, etc.

But at least they tried hire a serious writer, even if they ended up creating a purely serial fantasy space plot with ninja nuns, quests, and rogue captains filled with shrapnel. I'm left wondering exactly where it all went wrong... is it still just the influence of Kurtzman?

Personally, I couldn't give a rat's ass if a 'serious' writer like Chabon is involved. I know who he is but I've never read his work. I also know he co-wrote the screenplay for Spider-Man 2 and worked as well on John Carter. But just because they've received acclaim and prestige in one artistic medium doesn't mean they'll succeed in another. Especially in genre media. Lest we forget critically acclaimed director Ang Lee directed 2003's Hulk.

It's all about execution in the end. And where Chabon failed, a guy like Jon Favreau produces what it probably one the best Star Wars media in years with The Mandalorian as I mentioned before.

What matters in the end is the output, and so far Picard has been a major disappointment on that front. Whether Chabon or Kurtzmann is to blame for this mess is something I don't think we'll ever know unless someone writes a tell-all behind the scenes book.

 

[Makariel]

Isn’t that kind of the point? StarFleet/ the federation has always been a false utopia and every series has slowly torn down the veil to reveal an organization formed by imperfect beings.. warts and all. The StarFleet is the Jedi of Star Trek. They are not impervious to corruption.

If that's the really how they want to get across "the point" then that's such a well-beaten path that I can't do anything else than...

The thing I can't quite work out is... from a purely on-paper standpoint, they apparently did hire a relatively heavyweight writer to lead the series: Michael Chabon, who has won his share of awards in the genre. He's also not exactly new to Star Trek fandom, having apparently been an avid viewer since TOS, who knows how to at least namedrop various iconic episodes from each series. See his article in the New Yorker:

The Final Frontier

Personal History by Michael Chabon: I love Mr. Spock because he reminds me of you, I told my father. For the first time that night, I considered the possibility that he was going to survive it.

www.newyorker.com

So I've been giving this a lot of thought. First off, it somewhat speaks against the RedLetterMedia idea that the writers have no knowledge of Trek; this guy at least understands the basics presumably, even choosing to reference The Measure of a Man and Bruce Maddox, which isn't a bad premise for background to a new cybernetics plot. When he lists episodes in the article, they are generally decent picks (e.g., he loves "The Inner Light," which is a great classic Picard episode).

That said, his most damning flaw may be that he seems to approach Star Trek as fantasy rather than as science fiction, and for me there is a HUGE gulf between those, which can never be bridged without utterly demolishing the identity of a franchise ("she's the destroyer" and "bind your sword to my quest" are clearly fantasy garbage in every way).

I also don't think his kind of sci-fi writing accolades add up to much anymore. Unfortunately, science fiction as a genre is filled with idiots today: tons of fantasy writing, lots of awards typically going to whatever seems to mesh the most with current political trends in that crowd, etc.

But at least they tried hire a serious writer, even if they ended up creating a purely serial fantasy space plot with ninja nuns, quests, and rogue captains filled with shrapnel. I'm left wondering exactly where it all went wrong... is it still just the influence of Kurtzman?

I don't exactly know why Chabon is supposed to be a good fit for writing Trek? One of the entries on his wikipedia:

In April 2009, Chabon confirmed he had been hired to do revisions to the script for Disney's John Carter.[93]

I haven't read a single book from him, so no idea how good or bad his writing is, but just based on the works I've seen where his name is connected to (John Carter, the first 4 episodes of Picard) I don't see why is considered in such high regard. Regarding The Measure of a Man, it's one thing to name-check a good TNG episode, it's a completely different thing to completely ignore the outcome of said episode. But what do I know, nobody bound their sword to my quest yet.

I'm not sure how much of this can be blamed on Kurtzman. Because looking at whas has come out in recent years, ever since the Abramsverse launched Trek stopped being SciFi and turned into space fantasy.

 

[The Elite]

Also... He isn't "j L". That's just stupid.

It's basically meant to let the audience know that these characters have known each other for years without putting in any actual effort to develop their relationship.

I keep trying but this show is abysmal so far.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

 

[Furlong]

Looks like a spoof movie made by the Zucker brothers.

 

[McCheese]

I loved this scene, even had a sensiblechuckle.gif at the "are we still pretending?" punchline.

Have you guys watched TNG recently? that has plots that made this episode look like Orson Welles wrote it. Remember that time Civil War troops invaded the enterprise after a holodeck malfunction? or when that mind-controlling alien race just decided to make everybody super horny for 24 hours for reasons.

As you can probably tell, I'm still really enjoying the show. It's slow at times and suffers a bit from anime-filler style plots which progress character development without moving the story forward; but it's entertaining, well-acted, and full of likeable characters who are full of surprises.

I mean the ending of episode 5 I didn't see coming at all, but unlike say with "Lost" - it didn't feel forced or made up on a whim, and I expect they'll have a good explanation for it later on in the series.

 

[mcjmetroid]

Episode 5 was good in fairness bit only because it didn't directly involved the main plot.

I suppose the next episode we're back to those 2 on the borg cube again.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Episode 5 was good in fairness bit only because it didn't directly involved the main plot.

I suppose the next episode we're back to those 2 on the borg cube again.

It is a fact that anything with Jerry Ryan in it gets better immediately so this makes sense.

 

[darkinstinct]

So much crazyness this episode. Love the refreshing atmosphere, feels darker than normal. Don't give cookies to Agnes.

 

[PaNaMa]

Absolute garbage. I'm 22 minutes into episode 5 and I think I have to give up. It's so bad it almost has to be a joke. The show is trying so hard to not be startrek it forgets it still needs to be *something* - this isn't even good sci fi. It doesnt feel grounded in anything. It's silly, almost like a highschool play. Its cringy, I cannot immerse myself at all. How did this even make it to air?

 

[xandaca]

Turns out that what Star Trek has been missing all these years is a graphic scene where a sympathetic character gets his eye drilled out while he's still awake and not anesthetized, covered in blood from previous dismemberment, and is finally killed in an act of mercy by the woman who raised him and helped him rediscover his individuality. Thanks, Chabon and Kurtzman! Turns out gratuitous cruelty isn't immature, it's great writing!

Seriously, eff this. I haven't particularly liked the show up until now, but haven't completely dismissed it either. That opening scene was horrific on every level, though. It's not even that it's tonally anathematic to Star Trek: any show should be excoriated for being so pointlessly nasty. Good writing justifies brutality by making it a key part of the story or theme (David Fincher's Se7en being the prime example). Icheb's torture served no purpose other than to force an emotional reaction with minimal effort, consideration or respect. Guess what? It worked. I am indeed angry at having watched the scene - except I'm angry at the writers for bastardising something I care about, not at anyone or anything in the story. It was no better (worse, in fact, as it was more graphic) than Zach Snyder having Jimmy Olsen shot at the beginning of Batman v Superman - except at least Snyder had the good sense to cut everything from the theatrical cut which made it clear who the character was.

 

[Shouta]

Why do you gotta do that to Icheb?

That was probably my favorite episode so far. It's the first time the show actually had a plot for that episode itself and still moving the overall story forward. It's something that the show has desperately needed up until this point. The Picard and Seven moments were really good. I kind of wish they had cut the Raffi parts for more of the two but I'm okay with what they had.

 

[Atrus]

Finished episode 5 and its my favorite so far. They've got their Firefly crew up and running and since Jeri Ryan is my Star Trek waifu, she adds a lot to the episode. Icheb got done really dirty though.

I thought French Nick Fury and Rios' Pimp Daddy was hilarious.

 

[GreyHorace]

Episode 5 - Okay. A bit better than last week. But still, a lot of bits that made me roll my eyes.

- Borg dissection in the opening. Man, we're far from the network friendly content of The Next Generation are we? It's like the producers want to distance themselves from that classic piece of TV and are instead emulating the Battlestar Galactica revival.

- Seven of Nine. I never watched Voyager regularly, but what few episodes I've seen that featured Jeri Ryan as Seven showed me what a good actress she was and still is. She's a compelling presence and it's painfully obvious how much better she is than the other supporting cast.

- Humor. Finally, some comedy to lighten up the proceeding. I'll admit to letting out a chuckle or two at how the crew made plans to rescue Bruce Maddox.

- Freecloud. Again this show struggles with having an identity of it's own. So now we have a planet that looks like a mix of Star Wars and Blade Runner.

- Picard's 'disguise.' Riiiiggghhhtttt. An eyepatch is perfect for hiding the identity of one of the Federation's most famous captains. Nevermind that in the first episode his interview on the Galactic Fox News was probably seen by a ton of people in Federation space so there'd probably be recent firsthand recognition of the guy. Either that or those gangsters are the stupidest in the galaxy for not realizing this.

- Agnes kills Maddox. Like we didn't see that Agnes was a plant and traitor coming a mile away. But I'm still surprised she killed her former mentor (and lover) for some dreaded secret the Zhat Vash showed her.

 

[nikolino840]

- Borg dissection in the opening. Man, we're far from the network friendly content of The Next Generation are we? It's like the producers want to distance themselves from that classic piece of TV and are instead emulating the Battlestar Galactica revival.

 

[The Elite]

No Borg Cube melodrama really helped this episode. Now that they have the crew together I actually enjoyed their chemistry.

I also thought they did a good job with Raffi's history and that she fucked her own life over and is now in a situation were she has to claw her way back into being the person she once was.

Samurai Romulan is terrible so far. I get that he's never been off planet before and has no concept of deception but all of his contributions fell flat.