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PS5 vs Xbox Series X ‘Secret Sauce’ – SSD Speed And Velocity Architecture

You know what's funny? You just quoted a post that has to do with Xbox's advantage in GPU performance, but some numbers are not confirmed.

The numbered have not been confirmed, but you overlooked that and pointed out that's what NX Gamer said in this video. You're judging based off of numbers alone.

Yet Mark Cerny mentions streaming speed of his SSD with numbers, you become skeptical. You never gave a reason why you doubt him with the numbers he provided when it comes to pure SSD speed.


It's not hard to tell when someone is bias.
Lol fuck off mate, Thiccs one of the least biased people on this forum and pretty much always has a paragraph or two of well reasoned arguments to explain his point of view. More than I could say for you, SSDforce.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Lol fuck off mate, Thiccs one of the least biased people on this forum and pretty much always has a paragraph or two of well reasoned arguments to explain his point of view. More than I could say for you, SSDforce.

"Looks at post history"

Doesn't surprise me that you would say this.
 
They have already made some of these customizations, in fact. For example, they have features to BCPack that specific for XSX and aren't present on the PC side. They have 256 group object support in their implementation of mesh shading for XSX that is a higher limit (2x) that of the max size Nvidia's cards support. And they have already gone on saying the DX12U stack for XSX will include a lot of customizations specifically made for the console and its hardware/featureset.

there are changes yes but we still have yet to see what they impact and how can be exploited for performance, xbox one have lot of customization too yet it had lot of problems with drawcalls compared to ps4, not necesarilly a problem(on PC we deal with expensive drawcalls as the norm) but unexpected in consoles, MS will prefer to use the same API as in PC to favor ports we dont know yet what they will do, 256 changes to mesh shading well I dont know what it really means and what impact it has, maybe those are for the specific GPU and the rest are standard directX? if we compare that to something like id-buffer I think sony is taking better route for performance improvements, again I dont know what MS will do, is too soon to know and they will have time to improve with new SDK even if the first iteration is not as good and the same for sony
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Do you not see the irony here? I just pointed out how Thicc actually pleads his case well but all you’ve got is checking post histories and looking to sling console-war mud on everyone. Check your own post history once in a while.
He never gave a reason as to why we should doubt Cerny when it comes to SSD speeds.
 
He never gave a reason as to why we should doubt Cerny when it comes to SSD speeds.
He’s posted at length previously about having healthy skepticism for anyone making claims relating to an as yet untested/unreleased product. I’m not as interested in trawling post histories as you so feel free to go find it on your own, but even outside of that, if you can’t see the difference in talking about XBSX specs that have been tested with hands on from multiple third party sources versus claims made from a first party for an as yet unrevealed and untested console then I don’t know what to tell you.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
He’s posted at length previously about having healthy skepticism for anyone making claims relating to an as yet untested/unreleased product. I’m not as interested in trawling post histories as you so feel free to go find it on your own, but even outside of that, if you can’t see the difference in talking about XBSX specs that have been tested with hands on from multiple third party sources versus claims made from a first party for an as yet unrevealed and untested console then I don’t know what to tell you.
So SSD speeds weren't tested by devs?

Cerny was just assuming (as he claims) about how fast data would be processed?


Right, they made the PS5 without testing and there are devs who don't know what the speeds are capable of. That sound completely reasonable. /s
 

semicool

Banned
He never gave a reason as to why we should doubt Cerny when it comes to SSD speeds.
Bias, PR, best case scenarios, spin, marketing, lacking context/details, motives, audience.....? Do you take what politicians and marketers and salesman say at face value too? Healthy skepticism is healthy.
 
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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Bias, PR, best case scenarios, spin, marketing, lacking context/details, motives, audience.....? Do you take what politicians and marketers and salesman say at face value too? Healthy skepticism is healthy.

You're not making good comparisons.

SSD backs up his statements when it comes to streaming compressed data.

You guys can look at 10TF vs 12TF and conclude it that the 12TF GPU is the more powerful one. But forever reason, the 5.5GB/s SSD cannot out put the numbers that it suggest and there's reasons to doubt it.

Doesn't seem reasonable.

I never doubted that the Xbox One X was the most powerful console, but I did not believe that it's a "True 4K console" based on the numbers that were provided. Numbers suggested that the GPU was around a GTX 1060 GPU and that was not capable of running all games at Native 4K. And you have to remember that Phil went on stage and said that devs must deliver True 4K gaming.
 
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semicool

Banned
You're not making good comparisons.

SSD backs up his statements when it comes to streaming compressed data.

You guys can look at 10TF vs 12TF and conclude it that the 12TF GPU is the more powerful one. But forever reason, the 5.5GB/s SSD cannot out put the numbers that it suggest and there's reasons to doubt it.

Doesn't seem reasonable.

I never doubted that the Xbox One X was the most powerful console, but I did not believe that it's a "True 4K console" based on the numbers that were provided. Numbers suggested that the GPU was around a GTX 1060 GPU and that was not capable of running all games at Native 4K. And you have to remember that Phil went on stage and said that devs must deliver True 4K gaming.
Strawman? You were asking reasons to doubt Cerny in regards to his SSD sales pitch, I mean statements. Your moving the goalposts argument is a whole different discussion as to the value of a faster the SSD, in what context vs say more TFs and memory bandwidth. If that's what you want to discuss now just say so.
 
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semicool

Banned
There's no strawman. It's just that your argument just failed.

If you can't tell me why we should doubt the raw SSD speeds, then do it.
Here just so you have a chance to read again and try to comprehend, I'll repost for you:

"Bias, PR, best case scenarios, spin, marketing, lacking context/details, motives, audience.....? Do you take what politicians and marketers and salesman say at face value too? Healthy skepticism is healthy."

Maybe you asked the question but weren't ready for the possibilities or just didn't understand or you did and are suffering from cognitive dissonance?
 
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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Here just so you have a chance to read again and try to comprehend, I'll repost for you:

"Bias, PR, best case scenarios, spin, marketing, lacking context/details, motives, audience.....? Do you take what politicians and marketers and salesman say at face value too? Healthy skepticism is healthy."

I responded to this post.


I'm asking YOU to give me a reason why we should doubt Cerny when it comes to streaming compressed data WHEN WE have numbers that backs up his claim.

So far you haven't shown me anything.
 

semicool

Banned
I responded to this post.


I'm asking YOU to give me a reason why we should doubt Cerny when it comes to streaming compressed data WHEN WE have numbers that backs up his claim.

So far you haven't shown me anything.
I have some snake oil that heals Covid-19 if you're interested?

On a more serious note, theoretical numbers vs real world performance on most components usually differ quite a bit, especially on i/o type devices...pages, sequential vs random, latency, data type and location, thermals, competing access etc...
 
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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
I have some snake oil that heals Covid-19 if you're interested?

On a more serious note, theoretical numbers vs real world performance on most components usually differ quite a bit, especially on i/o type devices.
And you don't doubt the numbers that's coming from MS.


It's easy to see when people are being bias. It's only XboxGAF saying we should wait for real world performance test when Sony has advantages in some areas.
 

semicool

Banned
And you don't doubt the numbers that's coming from MS.


It's easy to see when people are being bias. It's only XboxGAF saying we should wait for real world performance test when Sony has advantages in some areas.
I never said that about MS. You asked why should we doubt Cerny, I gave you reason upon reason....that's why I said strawman and moving goalposts....you asked, I answered. All this other talk is deflection.

If you want to ask a different question or have a different conversation, be my guest.
 
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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
I never said that about MS. You asked why should we doubt Cerny, I gave you reason upon reason....that's why I said strawman and moving goalposts....you asked, I answered. All this other talk is deflection.
You guys don't come here doubting MS numbers when they claim to have the most powerful console.

I asked you why should we doubt when we have the numbers.

You guys said nothing other than that we can't always take what they say as face value. You're looking for reasons to doubt, but never hold the same standards when it comes to your preferred platform.
 

semicool

Banned
Changing the conversation DForce to where you deflected. Sony and MS both use RDNA2 architecture so the TF number is a more valid comparison since it's the same architecture and historically has had more bearing on gaming performance than an io drive. I've seen many a io drive analysis's where the variance is great and nowhere near theoretical numbers. I see it all the time on SSDS in computers. MS GPU vs Sony we are comparing like for like on the same architecture with a historically the key gaming component. There are, as we'd both agree great differences, and similarities between MS' Ssd and Sony's and it's theoretical improvement to gaming in console's is unproven as to what degree or how much. So let's reserve judgement and have healthy skepticism as to possible SSD gamechangers until we see more. It's also quite possible that MS has lesser raw numbers but better real world performance than Sony's SSD .....let's wait for real performance metrics due to different SSD architecture...however in regards to RDNA2, they're both the same so that's a given that MS wins on that front as it's the same architecture and that front, the GPU, historically has been the key gaming performance indicator.

We can be hopeful about Sony's SSD performance and even SSD performance advantage but it could be wrong in the real world performance and if not and it is the superior SSD, it could be non effectual in giving Sony a real world performance advantage in regards to having a better SSD if it so indeed does. Healthy skepticism means let's see when the games are measured and in what measurements.

Above all, remember there are reasons to doubt Cerny as he has motives, MS as well. But MS was never part of your original question.

Even taking the SSD metrics at face value and erroneously conclude they equal real world performance it remains to be PROVEN it's as important as a GPU for gaming performance......ie...greater reason to be skeptical on that count.
 
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Thirty7ven

Banned
So much tip toeing for that? Next time don’t beat around the bush. Pathetic.

Hey maybe XSX SSD is not just half as slow but four times as slow or maybe it’s one of the slowest SSds ever made. We don’t know, let’s wait and see... lol The nonsense is dizzying.
 
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Ascend

Member
I responded to this post.


I'm asking YOU to give me a reason why we should doubt Cerny when it comes to streaming compressed data WHEN WE have numbers that backs up his claim.

So far you haven't shown me anything.
There's plenty of reasons to doubt him. If you want to take the most obvious, one can doubt him for the simple fact that he's obviously trying to sell you something. But let's take a different angle...

Most of the Sony presentation and everything afterwards was mostly talk with barely any walk so to speak, unlike MS which actually showed a bunch of stuff. And the fact that Sony are advertising their system with max possible frequencies rather than average or sustained frequencies also makes people raise an eyebrow, and justifiably so. That makes one question what the given SSD speed really is. Also a max? I don't think anyone expects that value of 5.5GB/s uncompressed to be a sustained speed. They did say that typical compressed throughput is 8-9GB/s, but it's still unclear whether this is sequential or random. At least we know it's the read speed. Most likely, it's sequential read. Random is generally significantly slower by about 4X. And for gaming, it's the random one that matters.

We don't know what MS is advertising either with their 2.4 GB/s I/O throughput. It could be sequential read too. But here's the thing... MS presented the console as basically everything being fixed to make it easier for developers. Sony seems to be trying to present the console in a better light than it really is with their advertising. So I wouldn't be surprised if that 5.5 GB/s is also higher than the console can actually handle, while the MS numbers are more "conservative" and closer to reality.
 
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And this is a doubt where developers saying that ps5 can reach that 10.5tf peak performance while xsx will never reah 12tf due to the setup configuration of its ram to its lik maybe 11tf / 11.5 max. So shut and listen to your developer's u ignorant toads
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
There's plenty of reasons to doubt him. If you want to take the most obvious, one can doubt him for the simple fact that he's obviously trying to sell you something. But let's take a different angle...

Most of the Sony presentation and everything afterwards was mostly talk with barely any walk so to speak, unlike MS which actually showed a bunch of stuff. And the fact that Sony are advertising their system with max possible frequencies rather than average or sustained frequencies also makes people raise an eyebrow, and justifiably so. That makes one question what the given SSD speed really is. Also a max? I don't think anyone expects that value of 5.5GB/s uncompressed to be a sustained speed. They did say that typical compressed throughput is 8-9GB/s, but it's still unclear whether this is sequential or random. At least we know it's the read speed. Most likely, it's sequential read. Random is generally significantly slower by about 4X. And for gaming, it's the random one that matters.

We don't know what MS is advertising either with their 2.4 GB/s I/O throughput. It could be sequential read too. But here's the thing... MS presented the console as basically everything being fixed to make it easier for developers. Sony seems to be trying to present the console in a better light than it really is with their advertising. So I wouldn't be surprised if that 5.5 GB/s is also higher than the console can actually handle, while the MS numbers are more "conservative" and closer to reality.


2.4 GB/s throughput is more believable than 5.5 GB/s because Cerny presented his console as being variable in comparison to MS' being fixed?

You really can't make this stuff up. :messenger_grinning_sweat:

That's like saying MS are presenting their 2.4GB/s & I/O throughput in comparison to PS5 because their setup is inferior with more bottlenecks.

I can go even further. People have discussed Microsoft's split memory approach but many people on here from XboxGAF don't question them as others have.

This is nothing more than XboxGAF looking for a reason to doubt Cerny without holding the same standards for MS.
 

Ascend

Member
2.4 GB/s throughput is more believable than 5.5 GB/s because Cerny presented his console as being variable in comparison to MS' being fixed?

You really can't make this stuff up. :messenger_grinning_sweat:

That's like saying MS are presenting their 2.4GB/s & I/O throughput in comparison to PS5 because their setup is inferior with more bottlenecks.
It's kind of hard to say that when MS announced their console first.


I can go even further. People have discussed Microsoft's split memory approach but many people on here from XboxGAF don't question them as others have.

This is nothing more than XboxGAF looking for a reason to doubt Cerny without holding the same standards for MS.
The memory is not split. It is a unified memory pool where a certain section has slower speeds. And yes, that makes a difference.

One of the main reasons that Cerny is being doubted so much is the way things were introduced, as I already mentioned. Microsoft has given very little leeway for speculation with the way they presented things. They presented the specs, the console, how the console fits together, faster loading with zero optimization, free HDR being added to older games... I mean, how much is there to doubt or criticize? Oh. They also presented the changes to the controller, how you can use it with your older system and how older controllers will also work with the newer box. The reveal was fantastic, and even if you're not an Xbox fan, if you're honest, you have to admit that it was a great reveal.

As already mentioned, the announcement of the PS5 was a mess. Not even an image of the console, what was shown until now is a picture of the controller, some Spider-Man tech demo, and a bunch of fancy talk that sounds amazing to the uninitiated. And more importantly, if not most importantly, the rumors of the 9.2TFLOPS PS5 are too close to be just rumors. This brings the inevitable speculation that the PS5 was actually slower but got boosted up at the last minute in order to be closer to the Xbox. I mean... Look at this, published on Dec 30th of last year;

According to the leaked specs, the PS5’s Oberon chip will offer up 36 Navi compute units running at 2.0GHz, which would amount to a 9.2 teraflop GPU. The processor will also use GDDR6 memory, with a bandwidth of 448GB/s to 512GB/s. As previously reported, the GPU will have three modes, allowing for baked-in hardware emulation of the PS4 and PS4 Pro.

Leaked information about the Xbox Series X GPU is much less comprehensive, but apparently the chip has 3584 shaders, which would require a whopping 56 Navi compute units. Given that number, DF estimates Microsoft may be targeting 12 teraflops with its Arden chip. It’s also confirmed that the Arden chip will have a memory bandwidth of 560GB/s.



All this begs the question of whether Sony needed to boost their specs at the last minute to become a bit more competitive, to be at least be above 10TFLOPS. Imagine the PR disaster if the PS5 had NOTHING that is better than the XSX. Obviously they can't lie about the GPU or CPU. That's one of the hardest things to upgrade, so, why not up-talk the SSD instead? That's much easier to upgrade and you'd have a talking point as an advantage for the PS5. Obviously, if there is a change, no matter how slight, possibly the whole console needs to be redesigned... Faster SSDs require more cooling for one, and if you're going to boost your CPU and GPU as well, you'd have to adapt the cooling for that too... The fact that the PS5 has not been shown yet, is evidence to support this. Who unveils a console by showing the controller first...? And yes, hardware can be changed at the 'last minute'. Remember the PS3 banana boomerang controller that got ditched because of the bad PR it brought?

There are too many coincidences. And pretty much everything is pointing towards Sony being caught off-guard with the XSX and them needing to uplift their console. The idea that somehow people are being more critical of Cerny than Phil Spencer because of bias is a complete joke. Cerny has given everyone reasons for doubt. Phil Spencer has not. And I'm sorry if that's hard to hear, but that is simply how it is.
 
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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
It's kind of hard to say that when MS announced their console first.



The memory is not split. It is a unified memory pool where a certain section has slower speeds. And yes, that makes a difference.

Yes, unified which can result in to performance issues, which you don't go around doubting whenever someone mentions specs of the Xbox Sereis X console.


One of the main reasons that Cerny is being doubted so much is the way things were introduced, as I already mentioned. Microsoft has given very little leeway for speculation with the way they presented things. They presented the specs, the console, how the console fits together, faster loading with zero optimization, free HDR being added to older games... I mean, how much is there to doubt or criticize? Oh. They also presented the changes to the controller, how you can use it with your older system and how older controllers will also work with the newer box. The reveal was fantastic, and even if you're not an Xbox fan, if you're honest, you have to admit that it was a great reveal.

As already mentioned, the announcement of the PS5 was a mess. Not even an image of the console, what was shown until now is a picture of the controller, some Spider-Man tech demo, and a bunch of fancy talk that sounds amazing to the uninitiated. And more importantly, if not most importantly, the rumors of the 9.2TFLOPS PS5 are too close to be just rumors. This brings the inevitable speculation that the PS5 was actually slower but got boosted up at the last minute in order to be closer to the Xbox. I mean... Look at this, published on Dec 30th of last year;

According to the leaked specs, the PS5’s Oberon chip will offer up 36 Navi compute units running at 2.0GHz, which would amount to a 9.2 teraflop GPU. The processor will also use GDDR6 memory, with a bandwidth of 448GB/s to 512GB/s. As previously reported, the GPU will have three modes, allowing for baked-in hardware emulation of the PS4 and PS4 Pro.

Leaked information about the Xbox Series X GPU is much less comprehensive, but apparently the chip has 3584 shaders, which would require a whopping 56 Navi compute units. Given that number, DF estimates Microsoft may be targeting 12 teraflops with its Arden chip. It’s also confirmed that the Arden chip will have a memory bandwidth of 560GB/s.



All this begs the question of whether Sony needed to boost their specs at the last minute to become a bit more competitive, to be at least be above 10TFLOPS. Imagine the PR disaster if the PS5 had NOTHING that is better than the XSX. Obviously they can't lie about the GPU or CPU. That's one of the hardest things to upgrade, so, why not up-talk the SSD instead? That's much easier to upgrade and you'd have a talking point as an advantage for the PS5. Obviously, if there is a change, no matter how slight, possibly the whole console needs to be redesigned... Faster SSDs require more cooling for one, and if you're going to boost your CPU and GPU as well, you'd have to adapt the cooling for that too... The fact that the PS5 has not been shown yet, is evidence to support this. Who unveils a console by showing the controller first...? And yes, hardware can be changed at the 'last minute'. Remember the PS3 banana boomerang controller that got ditched because of the bad PR it brought?

There are too many coincidences. And pretty much everything is pointing towards Sony being caught off-guard with the XSX and them needing to uplift their console. The idea that somehow people are being more critical of Cerny than Phil Spencer because of bias is a complete joke. Cerny has given everyone reasons for doubt. Phil Spencer has not. And I'm sorry if that's hard to hear, but that is simply how it is.

This is why the Xbox community are heavily criticized. You guys speculate and turn them in facts.

There's nothing that proves it was a last minute clock

High frequencies from their Navi 10 chips shows it was planned for awhile.

Having lower CU counts and power GPU performance is likely a result of them pushing SSD technology for next gen consoles.

Navi 10 RDNA 1 is old. Xbox fans to this day are holding firm that the PS5 is really a 9.2TF console based on old leaks. But somehow, they want to ignore that it stated that it was Navi 10 RDNA 1 but are sticking to the 9.2TF number.

Your argument makes no sense.

Arguments you guys made over the past several months.

- Not RDNA 2
- Not a full RDNA 2
- A 9.2TF console and cannot maintain 10.2TF when needed.
- SSD performance will not see real world results
- Heating issues based off a random YouTube post
- Cerny lying about HW RT

There's too many facts that point to the Xbox fanbase on social media wants the PlayStation 5 as weak as possible.


You guys need to stop trying to push this narrative.
 

Ascend

Member
Yes, unified which can result in to performance issues, which you don't go around doubting whenever someone mentions specs of the Xbox Sereis X console.
Yes, it can result in performance issues... But, realistically, it won't. It has been proven that games running at 4K use less than 6GB of VRAM. And unless the developer is doing a completely asinine job, it really will not be an issue.

This is why the Xbox community are heavily criticized. You guys speculate and turn them in facts.
tenor.gif


There's nothing that proves it was a last minute clock
Why haven't we seen the console yet? Why does the leaked 9.2TF number correlate with exact the same CU count at 2 GHz? Why is the leak correct on everything except the clock?

High frequencies from their Navi 10 chips shows it was planned for awhile.
"high frequencies" and "a while" are vague terms. What exactly is 'high' and how long is 'a while'. For all we know, they made the change due to the leaks. They would have known that the leak of their own specs was accurate, and thus the XSX would be too, where they would start to make the changes. Yes. It is speculation. But it is too coincidental that a leak gives a number, and then a vague presentation comes out telling us everything runs in boost all the time, and with some vague justification of higher clocks being better that was ultimately debunked by Digital Foundry...

Having lower CU counts and power GPU performance is likely a result of them pushing SSD technology for next gen consoles.
I have no idea what this means.

Navi 10 RDNA 1 is old. Xbox fans to this day are holding firm that the PS5 is really a 9.2TF console based on old leaks. But somehow, they want to ignore that it stated that it was Navi 10 RDNA 1 but are sticking to the 9.2TF number.

Your argument makes no sense.
The leak that I link says nothing about it being RDNA1. My argument makes perfect sense, it's just inconvenient for the ones that have a bias.

Arguments you guys made over the past several months.

- Not RDNA 2
- Not a full RDNA 2
- A 9.2TF console and cannot maintain 10.2TF when needed.
- SSD performance will not see real world results
- Heating issues based off a random YouTube post
- Cerny lying about HW RT
Ah classic. Assign me to a group, shoot down the claims of that group as a way to discredit me, even though I have said no such things. Go look in my post history.

Just for the record;

I NEVER said the PS5 is not RDNA2
I NEVER said the PS5 is not fully RDNA2
I NEVER said the PS5 cannot maintain 10.2TF when needed. What I did emphasize is that the PS5 cannot guarantee the 10.2TF, otherwise they wouldn't be saying it could maintain it 'most of the time'. So it WILL downclock, whether you like it or not.
I NEVER said the PS5 SSD will not see real world results. What I did say is that the benefits of a faster SSD are being blown out of proportion.
I did say I suspected heating issues. Why? Because I still think the boosting is a late change, and, that would mean the heating system needs to be changed, which would explain why we still have not seen the console. I said this BEFORE any YouTube post.
I NEVER said anything about HW RT, either positive or negative.

There's too many facts that point to the Xbox fanbase on social media wants the PlayStation 5 as weak as possible.
This victim mentality is getting tiresome. No one is trying to paint the PS5 to be as weak as possible. Cerny and Sony are the ones trying to paint the PS5 console as powerful as possible, because he knows it's underpowered compared to the XSX. Not to mention it's his job to present it in the best way possible. And once again, that is the blunt truth. I can't even say I'm sorry if it hurts you anymore. Live with it.

You guys need to stop trying to push this narrative.
Sure. Whenever you stop trying to sell the PS5 as the be-all end-all console.

For the record.... The PS5 has its weaknesses, and acknowledging those is not a crime, although many would like it to be. It will play games just fine, and is much more powerful than the PS4 Pro. Isn't that enough?
 
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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Yes, it can result in performance issues... But, realistically, it won't. It has been proven that games running at 4K use less than 6GB of VRAM. And unless the developer is doing a completely asinine job, it really will not be an issue.

And it has been proven to cause issues. But no, you have 0 doubt that it will work, because of course its an Xbox.

Why haven't we seen the console yet? Why does the leaked 9.2TF number correlate with exact the same CU count at 2 GHz? Why is the leak correct on everything except the clock?

I wonder why.

When did they show the PS4?

June of 2013.

Leak shows that it's Navi 10. Is that true?

"high frequencies" and "a while" are vague terms. What exactly is 'high' and how long is 'a while'. For all we know, they made the change due to the leaks. They would have known that the leak of their own specs was accurate, and thus the XSX would be too, where they would start to make the changes. Yes. It is speculation. But it is too coincidental that a leak gives a number, and then a vague presentation comes out telling us everything runs in boost all the time, and with some vague justification of higher clocks being better that was ultimately debunked by Digital Foundry...

We all know? Where's your proof.

You don't have it. You're speculating by just guessing.

2GHz were even high for Navi 10, but it's more believable for an RDNA 2 based APU

vague presentation comes out telling us everything runs in boost all the time, and with some vague justification of higher clocks being better that was ultimately debunked by Digital Foundry...

It wasn't debunked as they did not test RDNA 2 cards, which are not even out.

Your argument makes no sense.

It does. 9.2TF\Navi 10 is based on old data
There was no trace of HW RT found, which is why many Xbox fans doubted that it had HW RT.



As far as that source goes, both Sparkman & Arden have RT & VRS mentioned, Oberon & Ariel don't


Ah classic. Assign me to a group, shoot down the claims of that group as a way to discredit me, even though I have said no such things. Go look in my post history.

I never said you claimed all these things, but you want me to look at your posts?

You doubted SSD speeds in this thread, correct?

his victim mentality is getting tiresome. No one is trying to paint the PS5 to be as weak as possible. Cerny and Sony are the ones trying to paint the PS5 console as powerful as possible, because he knows it's underpowered compared to the XSX. Not to mention it's his job to present it in the best way possible. And once again, that is the blunt truth. I can't even say I'm sorry if it hurts you anymore. Live with it.

No one?

:messenger_grinning_sweat:







And look at what I found while reading this tweet.



This doesn't include all the people who are pushing that the 2.2GHZ is not sustainable narrative.

I put you with them because you're repeating a lot of things they have said.

You guys pretend not to be bias. You guys will doubt everything that's coming from Cerny's mouth.
 

Ascend

Member
You guys pretend not to be bias. You guys will doubt everything that's coming from Cerny's mouth.
Cerny's right on a lot of things. The issue is that many believe that it somehow only applies to the PS5, while the same things apply to the XSX as well.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Cerny's right on a lot of things. The issue is that many believe that it somehow only applies to the PS5, while the same things apply to the XSX as well.
I just debunked your notion that people were\are pushing these narratives. So it's not hard to believe why people are doing the same for the PS5 SSD speeds.
 

Ascend

Member
I just debunked your notion that people were\are pushing these narratives. So it's not hard to believe why people are doing the same for the PS5 SSD speeds.
You quoted some people that say things you don't like. In your mind it translates to people trying to make the PS5 look as weak as possible. But really, it's Sony that for example said that 2.23 GHz will be achieved most of the time, i.e. not all the time. Saying that does not somehow mean that someone is trying to paint the PS5 as weak as possible.

You really need to let go of this victimhood mentality. It's not healthy. You honestly remind me of this...;

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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
You quoted some people that say things you don't like. In your mind it translates to people trying to make the PS5 look as weak as possible. But really, it's Sony that for example said that 2.23 GHz will be achieved most of the time, i.e. not all the time. Saying that does not somehow mean that someone is trying to paint the PS5 as weak as possible.

You really need to let go of this victimhood mentality. It's not healthy. You honestly remind me of this...;

They are.

Cerny was clear in his presentation, yet they claim he was lying.

You're doing the same, which is why you're defending them. What's not healthy is being in denial. :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 

Ascend

Member
They are.

Cerny was clear in his presentation, yet they claim he was lying.

You're doing the same, which is why you're defending them. What's not healthy is being in denial. :messenger_grinning_sweat:
I'm not in denial of PS5's weaknesses... I actually understood Cerny's presentation. How many here can say that? They hear the fancy talk and put the PS5 on a pedestal, completely missing the fact that the XSX can do the majority of those things as well.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
I'm not in denial of PS5's weaknesses... I actually understood Cerny's presentation. How many here can say that? They hear the fancy talk and put the PS5 on a pedestal, completely missing the fact that the XSX can do the majority of those things as well.
They're saying 10.2TF is not stable, which means it will ahve issues staying at 10.2TF.

Running based on workload is not an issue. 10.2TF is there when needed. You're trying to twist what they're saying to make it appear acceptable when they're out to call Cerny a liar.

See where he says, "It's toxic to call out a transparent lie" and trying to present a 10.2TF console when it's really 9.2TF?

Come on, you can't deny this. It's right there. :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 
I actually agree with this and expect PS5 to reach higher utilization early on and by mid gen devs start reaching higher utilization with the XSX GPU
But also important to point out the 21% resolution delta already accounts for this

Based on information available and common sense I expect both GPUs to be at near feature parity with both having specific customizations to make the most out of their specific APU setup.
People forget MS/Sony are working with AMD they have access to the same intellectual resources there's no magic secret optimizations that only one party has access to. They just had different priorities: Sony was content with a nextgen capable powerful but small GPU and focused on going above and beyond with I/O. MS was content with a next gen capable fast I/O and focused on getting the performance crown title (which they have) with a big and powerful GPU

This is where you lost me again... Asynchronous compute will help XSX realize its compute advantage not surpass it
Keep in mind PS5 is RDNA2 too,
all devs have to do to free enough resources to match the XSX output (including asynchronous compute) is drop resolution by 21%

The practical/in-game difference will always be a resolution difference because no matter how hard the xsx is pushed you can rest assured the ps5 will be pushed just as hard if not more

Sure if what you mean is a few percent increase/decrease to account for edge cases that's totally reasonable. I was thinking of exaggerating the gap to say 30% and conversely shrinking it to only 5% due to unforeseen developments. Both scenarios are based on wishful thinking not based in numbers or info.
Actually because of the clocks PS5 could have an advantage with async compute. Because the ACE engines (what manage the async compute threads) are not on the CUs and will be running at about 20% faster on PS5.

XSX will have an advantage (about 20%) in shading, no doubt about it, it could process and shade higher resolutions, in theory. But others parts of the pipeline are 20% faster on PS5: ACE engines, rasterization, L1 and L2 caches. Everything that is in the middle of the card (and outside with L2 caches) will be 20% faster on PS5:
Primitive unit, rasterization, L1, L2 caches, Geometry processor, Graphics command processor, ACE. Also we don't know the number of ACEs on both machines. As Pro have 8 ACE, PS5 have most probably 8 ACEs too. But oddly 5700 XT has only 4 ACEs and we don't know the number of those on MS machine.

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One word of advice for you and everyone else :

Don't give xbox fanboy's analysis for ps5 hardware the time of the day like SenjutsuSage SenjutsuSage . These guys are toxic fanboys who lie and believe their own lies as reality. Many of these armchair hardware designers and architects will do their best to spread false info as seen before like they did with hardware RT and ps5 catching fire . Whenever u see their post just reply 😂:





And it has been proven to cause issues. But no, you have 0 doubt that it will work, because of course its an Xbox.



I wonder why.

When did they show the PS4?

June of 2013.

Leak shows that it's Navi 10. Is that true?



We all know? Where's your proof.

You don't have it. You're speculating by just guessing.

2GHz were even high for Navi 10, but it's more believable for an RDNA 2 based APU



It wasn't debunked as they did not test RDNA 2 cards, which are not even out.



It does. 9.2TF\Navi 10 is based on old data
There was no trace of HW RT found, which is why many Xbox fans doubted that it had HW RT.








I never said you claimed all these things, but you want me to look at your posts?

You doubted SSD speeds in this thread, correct?



No one?

:messenger_grinning_sweat:







And look at what I found while reading this tweet.



This doesn't include all the people who are pushing that the 2.2GHZ is not sustainable narrative.

I put you with them because you're repeating a lot of things they have said.

You guys pretend not to be bias. You guys will doubt everything that's coming from Cerny's mouth.
 
I used to think it was ultimately about the games?
If it was only about the games Nintendo would always hit it out the park. Virtual Boy, Game Cube and Wii U says Hi. FYI it's about the entire package coming together, Hardware, software, price and now services. The entire package.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
If you can't tell me why we should doubt the raw SSD speeds, then do it.

PS5 SSD has clearly faster data transfer, but what does that mean? Because Cerny himself wasn't able to show. I asked like a month ago what exactly this bandwidth change, and I meant concrete examples, what will be that spammed to death "new paradign", and needless to say, I am yet to receive a single... So I don't know, maybe you missed to post, so I'm asking you personally, because you seem/act like you have some top secret knowledge that is yet to be revealed - what will be different on my TV screen once i fire up Fifa 2022? Or CoD from 2024? Or next Forza/GT? Examples, give me at least some theoretical possibilities. Seriously, people who spam all the treads with all the SSD buzzwords but are unable to come of any example how the games will be different on upcoming consoles should just STFU or get banned, Or both. And when pushed to a corner they just go back to thet SM demo which shows nothing but just a faster loading time, pathetic.

So I'm asking you for, let's say just 5 examples of how the games gameplay will change because of SSD. Give me the "new paradign", the "game-changer", I want to understand what everyone is so hyped about.
 

FranXico

Member
Arguments you guys made over the past several months.

- Not RDNA 2
- Not a full RDNA 2
- A 9.2TF console and cannot maintain 10.2TF when needed.
- SSD performance will not see real world results
- Heating issues based off a random YouTube post
- Cerny lying about HW RT
You forgot the latest one:
PS5 GPU is even weaker, because one of the CUs gets the cache disabled for audio use (so, Tempest is just a software feature contrary to what Cerny said in his presentation).
And although audio on XSX has similar features, there it really is done in a stand-alone chip.
 
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