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[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Sonys monster lineup goes on to list a bunch of old games HAHAHAHAHA

Are you 12?

 

[tryDEATH]

Tech is moving forward, current gen gpu/cpus are doing to be dirt cheap. Hell, next gen gfx cards arent as expensive as people anticipated. With new tech usually there is a new baseline, the gpu/cpu in the s should be fine, the ram is going to be the problem. We saw what One S did to Halo, the Ss will surely hold back MS and multiplat games

SFS and as cheesy this might sound will be the "secret sauce" and solution for the lack of physical RAM. They just showcased SFS in action and how much it saves on RAM usage in the Series S breakdown video from Xbox themselves and it was mightily impressive and that is before we account for optimization that console will always benefit more from than PC's.

Yes and that's becuase a lot of people wait and build PCs on a new gen launch to match or better that gen. Graphics card manufacturers release a new architecture or price aggressively during that period.
The RX480 is not in the top 10 but it's that spec. Soon you may see a 2080 or possibly with the aggressive pricing a 3060 with 8GB of VRAM at 448GBs becoming the popular one. Games will also start requiring them as recommended/minimum and the viscous circle will continue.

They don't actually price aggressively at all they basically just slot in to the prior generations price point with the older generations taking a slight hit. A GTX 1060 still goes for over $160 if on sale and regularly for around $200 and that's a 4 year old GPU that launched at $250.

There isn't going to be some seismic shift in the PC gamers buying habit, just because of a new generation. What console gamers don't realize these newer cards at this point are aiming more at a stable and maximized 4K experience that pushes RT performance something PC gamers aren't really as interested in, as a huge majority of gamers still plays at 1080P/1440P with as much FPS as possible, they aren't on a obsessive pursuit of 4K gaming, but FPS.

And even if they replace the RX480 in 1 to 3 years as the minimum required GPU and replaced it with a RX580 the Series S would still be more powerful due to its console optimization, you prediction might come true in 5+ years, but there is nor indication of this happening in the near future especially not now as we transition to next generation.

 

[NullZ3r0]

It's funny how Mark Cerny can make claims about PS5's boost mode being at or near the max "the majority of the time" and no devs, media or anyone else can refute these claims.

Yet when Microsoft makes a claim when they're the ones who built the SDK and the hardware and all of a sudden these devs "Press X to doubt".

I'm pretty sure that in a perfect world, devs would love to just work on a single spec machine, but that's a fantasy world where they only have a few thousand consumers and they can still keep the lights on and put their kids through college.

From my understanding of the dev kits MS has sent out, there are development profiles for each spec to assist developers with porting down projects to Series S.

 

[Abriael_GN]

No it doesn`t... while you may not need to pre-buffer as much as before higher quality assets have a much much larger footprint than what we`re used to.
If you cut the ram/ram speed you directly limit the asset set size because you can`t just stream everything with ~1,5GB/s....that is WAY too slow.
Or do you expect the same current-gen asset quality throughout next-gen?
VRAM exists for a reason!

The ID Engineer is absolutely right in saying "min specs matter", especially if you want "better" than before....

That's why different levels of detail/resolution/and compression exist and have existed for a decade.

So no he ain't.

 

[Papacheeks]

What he is saying is not entirely true and should be taken with a giant grain of salt.

For any easy example; this gen the vast majority of textures are built as 4K textures. They are then scaled down, because even a scaled down 4k texture is better than a 1080p one. In this sense the asset(texture) is actually built with the highest spec in mind not the lowest.

In general what he is saying is true, particularly with regards to RAM , but its certainly not an absolute. The lowest specs will definitely play a part into how games are built but to pretend like Series X games will look worse purely because the Series S exists is naive and silly.

Fact is the first 2 years of this gen (just like every other) will not do much to push the power boundary and will innately be cross gen games. Games take 3-4 years (in general) to make, if your game started development in the last year or two you will be designing for as many platforms as possible, including Ps4 and Xbox One.

The argument might as well be that next gen games will be held back because of current gen. People might be excited to play PS5 exclusives games that use the full breath of next gen (I certainly am), but dont forget, if you look at it from another perspective; Sony are completely abandoning the whole PS4 player base which is WAY larger than Xbox's. On one hand u can be hyped about next gen power, or the other u might be upset that Sony gave u the finger and said "I want another 500-600 if u wanna play sequels to GoW and Horizon etc". That does not sound "For the Players" to me.

Unless your a developer with an actual dev kit in front of you and you can proven to the mods as such, you have no leg to stand on.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

That's why different levels of detail/resolution/and compression exist and have existed for a decade.

You still think about scaling as a simple limit- and lossless slider.....that is not how it works....at all. And you just sidestepped me calling you out on your bullshit SSD streaming claims....

 

[Thirty7ven]

MS showing up at the party dressed like Nintendo but with no Super Mario.

Gamepass better work.

 

[Papacheeks]

That's why different levels of detail/resolution/and compression exist and have existed for a decade.

So no he ain't.

You have no clue wtf your talking about.

Unless your a fucking dev with a legit devkit running your game engine, seriously just stop.

 

[Abriael_GN]

You still think about scaling as a simple limit- and lossless slider.....that is not how it works....at all.

You may want to avoid silly strawman arguments because that only makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about. No one mentioned lossless, but there is plenty of room within lossy to get results that look nearly indistinguishable.

Incidentally, this is why tech like Sampler Feedback Streaming is being developed.



So yeah, you're wrong. Embrace it.

You have no clue wtf your talking about.

Unless your a fucking dev with a legit devkit running your game engine, seriously just stop.

It's the second time you spam this.

I'ìm afraid you don't get to dictate who takes part in a discussion in a discussion forum. Try actual arguments, because the attempt to gate discussion because you have no argument falls short, Majima. The abuse of profanity only shows how insecure you are.

 

[Hendrick's]

Well we started the pre-nextgen rumors in 32GB, after 24GB, and so 20B and finally 16GB official.
That is really a weak jump if you look in generations.

I remember devs wanted 16GB on PS4/XB1... MS/Sony wanted 4GB... at the end they reached 8GB.

If RAM was so important to next gen, why would nVidia release their flagship 3080 with only 10GB?

 

[Zok310]

I feel like they could have just done a $399 X and called it a day. They would not even need the S, and a $399 X with gamepass would have offered plenty of value to the gamer.

 

[Abriael_GN]

I think it's all BS, but I woul

If RAM was so important to next gen, why would nVidia release their flagship 3080 with only 10GB?

Because it isn't. Tech is being developed to make it less relevant and put the eggs in baskets that count.

 

[Shmunter]

It's funny how Mark Cerny can make claims about PS5's boost mode being at or near the max "the majority of the time" and no devs, media or anyone else can refute these claims.

Yet when Microsoft makes a claim when they're the ones who built the SDK and the hardware and all of a sudden these devs "Press X to doubt".

I'm pretty sure that in a perfect world, devs would love to just work on a single spec machine, but that's a fantasy world where they only have a few thousand consumers and they can still keep the lights on and put their kids through college.

From my understanding of the dev kits MS has sent out, there are development profiles for each spec to assist developers with porting down projects to Series S.

Fantasy world existed till Microsoft decided to unleash Craig and XsS

 

[Abriael_GN]

Fantasy world existed till Microsoft decided to unleash Craig and XsS

Considering that most devs develop on multiple platforms, including PC, this is ludicrously inaccurate.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

You may want to avoid silly strawman arguments because that only makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about. No one mentioned lossless, but there is plenty of room within lossy to get results that look nearly indistinguishable.

Incidentally, this is why tech like Sampler Feedback Streaming is being developed.

SFR is not a new idea....... Ever heard of PRT?
Stop parroting marketing nonsense without understanding what you are even talking about.
A few pages ago "assets" were synonymous with "textures" for you and you claimed an SSD with 1,5GB/s could substitute full blown VRAM just a few minutes ago.....it`s kind of ridiculous how hard you try to deny rather simple technical dependencies here.

 

[VincentMatts]

If RAM was so important to next gen, why would nVidia release their flagship 3080 with only 10GB?

The XSS is targetting 1440p at best. But lets be honest, it will probably mostly be 1080. I dont see what the problem is. The hardware will still have the great CPU, GPU and SSD. I dont see how thats holding anything back.

 

[Abriael_GN]

SFR is not a new idea....... Ever heard of PRT?
Stop parroting marketing nonsense without understanding what you are even talking about.
A few pages ago "assets" were synonymous with "textures" for you and you claimed an SSD with 1,5GB/s could substitute VRAM just a few minutes ago.....it`s kind of ridiculous how hard you try to twist rather simple facts here.

Ok, so you're simply not good at reading. I see.

It takes a rather sad inability to understand simple English to turn

Textures ARE assets.

(which is simply a fact) into

"assets" are synonymous with "textures," which would be

Assets ARE textures.

See the difference now that I spelled it out for you very, very slowly? Am I still going too fast?

I never argued that assets are synonymous with textures. As a matter of fact, I said the opposite. But keep defending this ludicrous article from someone who's simply trying to stir the pot with zero actual expertise to support it. It's fun to see trainwrecks happening.

 

[NullZ3r0]

Considering that most devs develop on multiple platforms, including PC, this is ludicrously inaccurate.

Let him jerk off in the corner with his dunce hat. Drive-by posts like this aren't worth it.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Ok, so you're simply not good at reading. I see.

Probably better than you pretending to know anything beyond "i´ve subscribed to a tech youtuber"-level.

I never argued that assets are synonymous with textures. As a matter of fact, I said the opposite. But keep defending this ludicrous article from someone who's simply trying to stir the pot with zero actual expertise to support it. It's fun to see trainwrecks happening.

No idea which article you mean. I simply share the mindest of developers like the ID-Tech Principal Dev as in that the series S really pulls down the next gen floor with its specs.
And then I see people like you just randomly throwing bullshit claims into the ring like the SSD making up for VRAM or just mentioning SFR as if that was something new........The most primitive technical dependencies which have existed since the very first render pipeline getting denied here is just ridiculous.

 

[Abriael_GN]

No idea which article you mean. I simply share the mindest of developers like the ID-Tech Principal Dev as in that the series S really pulls down the next gen floor with its specs.
And then I see people like you just randomly throwing bullshit claims into the ring like the SSD making up for VRAM or just mentioning SFR as if that was something new........The most primitive technical dependencies which have existed since the very first render pipeline getting denied is just ridiculous.

Before you try to argue with the grownups, you may want to at least try reading the first post of a thread. It helps.

I guess asking you to understand the basic difference in simple English between "Textures are assets" and "assets are textures" comes after you did that and actually have the slightest idea of what we're talking about.

 

[MiguelItUp]

......Right. This just seems like a bad take is all IMO. I mean, an opinion, sure. One with a hint of bias. I personally don't see or agree with what they're attempting to reach for here.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Before you try to argue with the grownups, you may want to at least try reading the first post of a thread. It helps.

I guess asking you to understand the difference between "Textures are assets" and "assets are textures" comes after you did that and actually have the slightest idea of what we're talking about.

still sidestepping the bullshit claims you made, I see. Pathetic....as expected.

 

[Three]

Call me when EA, Ubi ect pull support for all platforms but Sony because supporting more than 1 device is hard. Until then it is guys venting because they may have more work to do.

Its people venting because they want more to work with and do new things. If they didn't want more work to do they would be showing their last gen games at 120fps like MS loves to do.

SFS and as cheesy this might sound will be the "secret sauce" and solution for the lack of physical RAM. They just showcased SFS in action and how much it saves on RAM usage in the Series S breakdown video from Xbox themselves and it was mightily impressive and that is before we account for optimization that console will always benefit more from than PC's.



They don't actually price aggressively at all they basically just slot in to the prior generations price point with the older generations taking a slight hit. A GTX 1060 still goes for over $160 if on sale and regularly for around $200 and that's a 4 year old GPU that launched at $250.

There isn't going to be some seismic shift in the PC gamers buying habit, just because of a new generation. What console gamers don't realize these newer cards at this point are aiming more at a stable and maximized 4K experience that pushes RT performance something PC gamers aren't really as interested in, as a huge majority of gamers still plays at 1080P/1440P with as much FPS as possible, they aren't on a obsessive pursuit of 4K gaming, but FPS.

And even if they replace the RX480 in 1 to 3 years as the minimum required GPU and replaced it with a RX580 the Series S would still be more powerful due to its console optimization, you prediction might come true in 5+ years, but there is nor indication of this happening in the near future especially not now as we transition to next generation.

No idea what you are saying but the most popular GPU near next gen launch (at or less than 1 year after) is near the GPU performance of that generation.
You can check it here. It will shift from the 1060 again. It won't take 5 years.



Near 360 launch: Geforce 7600
Near xbox one launch it was actually intel integrated graphics but the dedicated graphics card was a GTX 760.
At xbox one x it was the 1060.
What makes you think it won't rise to the console equivalent this gen?

What that equivalent is remains to be seen because MS went and released the Series S. Either the minimum/recommended specs will not shift due to it or Xbox series S will be severely underpowered if it shifts to the PS5/XSX.

 

[Abriael_GN]

still sidestepping the bullshit claims you made, I see. Pathetic....

One isn't sidestepping just because you say they are after ridiculously twisting their words.

I have explained quite clearly why you're wrong. You simply aren't accepting it after barging into a discussion you haven't even read the beginning of.

Talk about pathetic.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

One isn't sidestepping just because you say they are.

I have explained quite clearly why you're wrong. You simply aren't accepting it after barging into a discussion you haven't even read the beginning of.

Talk about pathetic.

you have explained nothing. Please explain in detail how you substitute VRAM with an SSD despite the massive difference in speed, how you make assets that need to be available at the same time streamable....., how SFR is completely and massively more of a game changer than PRT before....

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

Xbox has a plan

 

[Abriael_GN]

you have explained nothing because I say so.

Fixed that for you

 

[Papacheeks]

You may want to avoid silly strawman arguments because that only makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about. No one mentioned lossless, but there is plenty of room within lossy to get results that look nearly indistinguishable.

Incidentally, this is why tech like Sampler Feedback Streaming is being developed.



So yeah, you're wrong. Embrace it.



It's the second time you spam this.

I'ìm afraid you don't get to dictate who takes part in a discussion in a discussion forum. Try actual arguments, because the attempt to gate discussion because you have no argument falls short, Majima. The abuse of profanity only shows how insecure you are.

So you call out a ID software developer, saying they dont know wtf they are talking about and we're suppose to believe you? I literally have worked in zbrush, maya, 3D STUDIO MAX, Unreal engine for mods. if your view of "assets" is just texture fill, and qmaps, you need to have your head examined.

High poly, pixel count in literally modeled characters, map asset/objects like foliage, all have their own density's and get loaded into temp storage then into memory. What do you think happens when a developer develops a game around the SSD?

The SSD is looked at as a pool of virtual memory that can stream all these assets/objects into memory as fast as they are requested. If you literally only have 7.5gb of memory available that means the application is waiting on the system to free up that memory to cache/load the next object/asset. Especially if the said developer makes a game where you can see and get to an area without having to wait. It's all just there. thats the memory and ssd working together.

And thats an issue literally being brought up by developers. You keep tip toeing around that "Look at PC". Well guess what that line of thinking may have worked for games being developed for PS4/XBOX because of HDD limitations.

Now that the base is a NVME ssd, that is going to change. ANd it drastically changes the way they approach engine development, aka UNREAL 5 demo.

Once games minimum requirement is a SSD which will be soon.

 

[Hendrick's]

At this point I hope Xbox cause all next gen games to be at E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial levels bad. It's what most of you deserve frankly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.T._the_Extra-Terrestrial_(video_game)

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Fixed that for you

pathetic kid....

 

[Abriael_GN]

So you call out a ID software developer, saying they dont know wtf they are talking about and we're suppose to believe you? I literally have worked in zbrush, maya, 3D STUDIO MAX, Unreal engine for mods.

Sure, everyone fills up their resume however they like in forum discussions

if your view of "assets" is just texture fill, and qmaps, you need to have your head examined.

Another with issues in reading comprehension I see.

High poly, pixel count in literally modeled characters, map asset/objects like foliage, all have their own density's and get loaded into temp storage then into memory. What do you think happens when a developer develops a game around the SSD?

The SSD is looked at as a pool of virtual memory that can stream all these assets/objects into memory as fast as they are requested. If you literally only have 7.5gb of memory available that means the application is waiting on the system to free up that memory to cache/load the next object/asset.

And that's why tech has been developed to make that process much faster and efficient. That's pretty much everything that's being shown nowadays, and not only from Microsoft.

And we're done here.

pathetic kid....

I lost the argument, so I'll insult you. So there!

 

[Phrixotrichus]

I lost the argument, so I'll insult you. So there!

there never was an argument because you sidestepped everything as you do again here because you simply don`t know squat.
Utterly pathetic, indeed.

but hey, 2nd chances and such:

Please explain in detail how you substitute VRAM with an SSD despite the massive difference in speed, how you make assets that need to be available at the same time streamable....., how SFR is completely and massively more of a game changer than PRT before....

 

[Abriael_GN]

there never was an argument because you sidestepped everything as you do again here because I say so.

Fixed that for you again

 

[ethomaz]

If RAM was so important to next gen, why would nVidia release their flagship 3080 with only 10GB?

Crazy... I thought it was not to canibalize the $1500 3080 TI that will come with way more RAM.
You know market segmentation.

They should make the $1500 worth for the consumer.

BTW with 10GB VRAM you have more than any next-gen console.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Fixed that for you again

Aaaaaaan again refusing to answer, I think that`s enough interaction with middle-schoolers for the day. Ignored.

 

[Papacheeks]

Sure, everyone fills up their resume however they like in forum discussions




Another with issues in reading comprehension I see.



And that's why tech has been developed to make that process much faster and efficient. That's pretty much everything that's being shown nowadays, and not only from Microsoft.

And we're done here.



I lost the argument, so I'll insult you. So there!

Would you like my cert's? I used those again when i went to Animation school in San Frnacisco? Academy of art University. I use to use Maya, zbrush for poly modeling, maya for scene generation, 3DSTUDIO max for animatics and rough rigging.

unreal engine was just that mods. All I got into.

I went into a different direction and work on NLE's, render server's for broadcast.

What else would you like to know?

You literally are deflecting because you have no fucking clue.

 

[Shmunter]

Considering that most devs develop on multiple platforms, including PC, this is ludicrously inaccurate.

Do you honestly think Sony didn’t consider a scenario like Microsoft? Sony knows what’s what, that’s why they are market leaders in gaming. #BaseLineMatters

 

[Abriael_GN]

Would you like my cert's? I used those again when i went to Animation school in San Frnacisco? Academy of art University. I use to use Maya, zbrush for poly modeling, maya for scene generation, 3DSTUDIO max for animatics and rough rigging.

unreal engine was just that mods. All I got into.

I went into a different direction and work on NLE's, render server's for broadcast.

What else would you like to know?

You literally are deflecting because you have no fucking clue.

I don't want to know anything, but I do find it funny that you'd think anyone actually cares about your resume. You're a random forum user, like me, and everyone else around here. You may want to understand that concept (and the fact that abusing profanity makes you look like a really insecure random forum user) before punching some more nonsense into that poor keyboard.

Your attempt to gate discussion like only certified developers are allowed to discuss is a prime example of that insecurity. I'm sorry to have to break it to you, but this is NeoGAF, not GDC.

 

[Papacheeks]

Do you honestly think Sony didn’t consider a scenario like Microsoft? Sony knows what’s what, that’s why they are market leaders in gaming. #BaseLineMatters

Also why they made a close relationship with EPIC on UNREAL engine. literally was re-written for that demo. I put him on ignore he has no fucking clue and then goes and insults people because he can't fathom how new workflows in newly updated engines are working now with SSD being used as virtual memory.

Once chiplit designs start showing I/O chips on GPU's he's going to have nothing to stand on.

 

[cryptoadam]

I think MS is making all the right moves and the S looks like a great machine and GP with EA play is amazing value.

But Sony is still going to be king. MS won't make inroads in Japan or the EU. And I think PS brand is to strong in North America.

I am a Sony gamer, but if I go next gen it will be MS due to the S (don't have a 4K TV) and Game Pass (I don't buy a lot of games so it is great value). But I still see Sony beating MS in the hardware game.

But I don't think MS cares. They just want to push game pass, and eventually Xcloud. Series S/X is a Trojan horse to push GP into PC's and smart devices eventually. MS is only going to care about GP subs this time around.

 

[quest]

MS fans should have mobile in the brain, since that's the market strategy MS is trying to shift towards.

Yes the guy with out a developer kit to even see what tools Microsoft has to make his job easier. Maybe it be easier to listen to him if he worked on it and explained it.

 

[tryDEATH]

Its people venting because they want more to work with and do new things. If they didn't want more work to do they would be showing their last gen games at 120fps like MS loves to do.

No idea what you are saying but the most popular GPU near next gen launch (at or less than 1 year after) is near the GPU performance of that generation.
You can check it here. It will shift from the 1060 again. It won't take 5 years.



Near 360 launch: Geforce 7600
Near xbox one launch it was actually intel integrated graphics but the dedicated graphics card was a GTX 760.
At xbox one x it was the 1060.
What makes you think it won't rise to the console equivalent this gen?

What that equivalent is remains to be seen because MS went and released the Series S. Either the minimum/recommended specs will not shift due to it or Xbox series S will be severely underpowered if it shifts to the PS5/XSX.

The GTX 1060 is a special card and has already been the longest leader ever even based on that video you linked bar the integrated graphics and that is because it is the perfect 1080p/1440p card that will be able to sustain its position until there is a fundamental shift to 4K cards and monitors. I don't think we will be seeing that shift any time soon and neither do I believe MS or Sony dictates the popularity of GPU to the it just is a coincident that the 1060 released around the time of the One X.

We can easily come back to this discussion once the RTX 30xx cards come out and see how its doing among PC gamers, my bet is that it isn't taking that #1 spot from the GTX 1060 for quite of bit time, thus I am not really buying this concern for the Series S and how it will apparently negatively impact the whole gaming sphere.

 

[Papacheeks]

I don't want to know anything, but I do find it funny that you'd think anyone actually cares about your resume. You're a random forum user, like me, and everyone else around here. You may want to understand that concept (and the fact that abusing profanity makes you look like a really insecure random forum user) before punching some more nonsense into that poor keyboard.

Your attempt to gate discussion like only certified developers are allowed to discuss is a prime example of that insecurity. I'm sorry to have to break it to you, but this is NeoGAF, not GDC.

I'm not a random user I put everything in my contact on this site, so people can literally know where I'm from where I work, and what I do for a living which is in the tech field we are talking about. Not in gaming but broadcast, which uses similar hardware and some of the programs.

I called you out because you have such a little understanding of engine development, and game development when it comes to how the engine uses the said hardware. There are literally multiple tech developers some of whom write code for the actual rendering/lighting engines that are talking about xbox series S.

Not all of them have the same workload, engine pipeline as others do, so opinions on such subject will be different for sure depending on their work environment on projects.
But when people who were leads on doom speak up on top of people from remedy who make demanding looking games, i tend to listen.

You are disregarding them for really what looks like very little understanding of the work-Pipelines. you can't compare current PC work pipeline to these consoles.
The pipeline is literally changing and that starts on the consoles. Once a PC title shows minimum requirement is NVME on UNREAL 5 engine game, then you will have your answer to what the fears are from some of these developers.

 

[Three]

The GTX 1060 is a special card and has already been the longest leader ever even based on that video you linked bar the integrated graphics and that is because it is the perfect 1080p/1440p card that will be able to sustain its position until there is a fundamental shift to 4K cards and monitors. I don't think we will be seeing that shift any time soon and neither do I believe MS or Sony dictates the popularity of GPU to the it just is a coincident that the 1060 released around the time of the One X.

We can easily come back to this discussion once the RTX 30xx cards come out and see how its doing among PC gamers, my bet is that it isn't taking that #1 spot from the GTX 1060 for quite of bit time, thus I am not really buying this concern for the Series S and how it will apparently negatively impact the whole gaming sphere.

Nonsense. The 8800 held its position for 4 years because we had a long gen. Longer than the 1060 so far. There is nothing special about the 1060. Yes, lets revisit this in a year. The 1060 is already seeing a decline and next gen cards are seeing an increase.

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

 

[Data Ghost]

This 'TeH kim' guy has a real stick up his a$$ over Xbox doesn't he?

 

[tryDEATH]

I think MS is making all the right moves and the S looks like a great machine and GP with EA play is amazing value.

But Sony is still going to be king. MS won't make inroads in Japan or the EU. And I think PS brand is to strong in North America.

I am a Sony gamer, but if I go next gen it will be MS due to the S (don't have a 4K TV) and Game Pass (I don't buy a lot of games so it is great value). But I still see Sony beating MS in the hardware game.

But I don't think MS cares. They just want to push game pass, and eventually Xcloud. Series S/X is a Trojan horse to push GP into PC's and smart devices eventually. MS is only going to care about GP subs this time around.

MS ain't touching Japan and most probably RoW, they will likely make some inroads in Europe and take some of the market share, but will go back and dominate the NA market like they did in the 360 era. The Xbox One was literally only a couple of million behind Sony in NA and that was with a atrocious launch. The way they are executing the launch compared to Xbox One is night and day and the Series S is going to gone absolutely insane especially with the All Access being available at all large retailers in the USA.

In the end Sony will probably make less money(lack of services) and end up with more console sales, but not by nearly as much as this generation, where it was an absolute blow out.

 

[Shmunter]

I think MS is making all the right moves and the S looks like a great machine and GP with EA play is amazing value.

But Sony is still going to be king. MS won't make inroads in Japan or the EU. And I think PS brand is to strong in North America.

I am a Sony gamer, but if I go next gen it will be MS due to the S (don't have a 4K TV) and Game Pass (I don't buy a lot of games so it is great value). But I still see Sony beating MS in the hardware game.

But I don't think MS cares. They just want to push game pass, and eventually Xcloud. Series S/X is a Trojan horse to push GP into PC's and smart devices eventually. MS is only going to care about GP subs this time around.

You’re not a Sony guy if you are skipping town. Because Sony stuff is only in that town.

Not that there’s anything wrong with it, but proper Sony guys ain’t doing that.

 

[BabyfaceRe]

Unless your a developer with an actual dev kit in front of you and you can proven to the mods as such, you have no leg to stand on.

I am not a current dev nor do I have do I have a dev kit; not that I would need one to make the statements I made. I do have a degree in game design, plenty of knowledge/experience and two legs to stand on.

Everything I stated you can research yourself if you want clarification.

 

[cryptoadam]

You’re not a Sony guy if you are skipping town. Because Sony stuff is only in that town.

Not that there’s anything wrong with it, but proper Sony guys ain’t doing that.

I am the Bendict Arnold of the consol wars LOL.

Just can't bring myself to spend 500-600$ on a next gen system when I don't even have a 4K TV and buy like 1 game a year. And I don't play any Sony exclusives (except Spider Man).

I still think Sony will win, but I am pulling for MS to surprise everyone so that puts Sony's feet to the fire and they have to get aggressive on pricing and PS NOW.

 

[Katajx]

I’m not gonna claim he is an expert, but I would almost guarantee you that Abriael_GN has actually spoken to more game developers than most of us. He’s just not an asshat about it.