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Doom Eternal Next Gen upgrade performance targets revealed

PSYGN

Member
You don't wanna go down this road, dude...
hHPLKvn.jpg

Lu5yjXZ.jpg

"Series X is designed to deliver a next generation experience"

which also includes ray tracing, arguably one of the biggest part of next-gen experience...

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Here comes the lie... "series s is designed to deliver the same great next-gen experience"

If it's designed to deliver the "same great next-gen experience" as X at lower res, then where's ray tracing on the S when the X has it?

They hired a homeless man for this?
 

01011001

Banned
Doom Eternal is created by what is now a first party studio for Xbox. There are no excuses in this case. They will have access to all the resources they would ever need.

At this point you're just guessing to make excuses. We can only talk about the facts that are presented to us today and they state there is no ray tracing for the Series S on Doom Eternal. If it comes at a later date then the question needs to be asked as to why it took more effort or time when people were saying it's a machine that won't have any impact or cost developers time because all they have to do is "move some sliders down".

You can't just ignore all the games where it doesn't perform equally in terms of raytracing (or framerate since the goalposts have now been moved to interpret the marketing as "framerate") and then say "but look this handful of games it does do what they said it should". The results so far have been wildly inconsistent and of you are are Series S owner you cannot be sure of whether or not you will be getting ray tracing in future titles.

It wasn't marketed as a "sometimes" or a "maybe" machine, the statements being made were pretty definitive.

1: it is a first party studio... for like a few months now. and one that uses their own Engine, which doesn't magically get 100% optimized for Series S the moment they finally sealed the deal.

2: I am not making excuses, I think rationally about this case. the reason there is no RT on Series S could have many reasons, one of which can be that they didn't have time to work on, let's be honest, the least sold and therefore least critical version for them. (this patch is most likely in the works for many many months already)
another reason could be that their RAM management would need to be adjusted, the BVH structure might need too much ram, or sucks up too much bandwidth. this means the RT mode on Series S would need additional adjustments which would need more time than the targeted patch release, and they didn't want to push back all the other patches just so they can sort it out.

and games where it doesn't perform as well are rare. and often it's due to weird decisions by developers. See Resident Evil 8... why the fuck is the RT mode running at 1440p? why not drop it to 1080p? same question also for Series X and PS5 tho, why not have an additional RT Performance mode that runs at something like 1800p60?

you will find that developers often do weird shit that doesn't make sense (sometimes it makes sense once you know more details, but not always) you can't simply take a game out of many, point at it and then suggest the hardware is at fault, especially when we know from the past that consoles that aren't the priority can get shafted by developers with way less optimization work being done on them.

or how else would you for example explain how, say, Ace Combat 7 runs at the same resolution and settings on PS4 Pro and One X, but performs better on Pro? The One X is literally better than the Pro in every way, there's nothing the Pro is better at, in fact many parts of the hardware are way worse than in the One X counterparts.
fucking Minecraft runs better on Switch than on One X (I know, I played and have it on both systems) it loads faster and runs smoother... why is that?

there are many reasons why specific games might perform worse than you would expect on some platforms. neglect, issues with APIs, time pressure + too many systems to work on or engine stuff that affects a specific system due to that system's hardware setup


so the 2 possible reasons why Doom Eternal doesn't have an RT mode on Series S that I see are
A: the team simply didn't have time to polish up all the 4 different systems they are targeting
B: the Series S's RAM size or bandwidth clashes with how the engine builds the BVH structure and adjustments need to be made, which takes time (which is also kinda reason A but more elaborately explained)
 
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FlyyGOD

Member
XSS doesn't have more RAM, nor it is not faster at all. In RAW TF numbers XSS is weaker compared to X1X
People who don't understand technology shouldn't speak on things they know nothing about. Series S is Has a better gpu(RDNA 2), faster cpu ,a faster ram and next gen capabilitiesthe one x can't compete with. Its a way more powerful machine than the one x will ever be.
 
People who don't understand technology shouldn't speak on things they know nothing about. Series S is Has a better gpu(RDNA 2), faster cpu ,a faster ram and next gen capabilitiesthe one x can't compete with. Its a way more powerful machine than the one x will ever be.

XSS doesn't have a faster ram than X1X.
 
One x uses DDR 5 while the Series S is using DDR 6.

LOL. Bandwidth speed is bandwidth speed. GB/s is the same despite bits and clock. Also in raw TF numbers XSS have a smaller TF count. 4TF RDNA 2 is like 5.1 TF GCN. But of course, architecture is different.
 
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01011001

Banned
One x uses DDR 5 while the Series S is using DDR 6. Plus Series S has a higher bandwidth along with an ssd .

the One X has more memory bandwidth than the Series S

edit: also it's GDDR5 and GDDR6... DDR5 is not even really out, and DDR6 not even on the horizon lol DDR6 will come out in 2026 or 27 if we're lucky
 
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So, XSS doesn't have RT. You know what ID Software dev ( now Xbox 1st party dev ) said about XSS...yeah.

Funny thing is :

Xbox One X (1800p/60) is better than the Series S version (1440p/60)

One is 4k targeting console. Other is targeting 1080p. Series S is exceeding expected performance.

Also did you see the conference? So many titles not coming to last gen. Glad I picked up Series S. Was really tempted by One X at the retailer when went to purchase.
 

FlyyGOD

Member
the One X has more memory bandwidth than the Series S

edit: also it's GDDR5 and GDDR6... DDR5 is not even really out, and DDR6 not even on the horizon lol DDR6 will come out in 2026 or 27 if we're lucky
You really trying to agree that one x is a more powerful system than Series S?
 

01011001

Banned
You really trying to agree that one x is a more powerful system than Series S?

where did I say that, I am correcting an error you made. but also, yes the One X is more powerful in certain areas, and less powerful in others. if it comes to pushing high resolutions the One X is superior, and if it comes to memory intensive games it also is superior.

in everything else the Series S is better

the key difference is that the One X was made to target last gen games at 1800p-2160p (or more precise, One S games at 400% to 500% resolution), and the Series S was made to target current gen games at 1080p-1440p (or more precise, Series X games at 25% to 33% resolution). the One X is better at the former while the Series S is better at the latter.

edit: the example on hand here is, the Series S can not run Doom Eternal at 4K60fps while the One X can not run it at 1080p120fps
 
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Skifi28

Member
I wasn't too impressed with the RT mode that they showed, but if the sacrifice in res is so little I guess I'm going with that.
 

01011001

Banned
I wasn't too impressed with the RT mode that they showed, but if the sacrifice in res is so little I guess I'm going with that.

well it has RT reflections on basically any reflective surface. what more do you want? the lighting was already brilliant without RT so no reason to use it for that.
and most importantly, it seems almost nothing is culled from the reflections either.
in the short video shown you can see many of the transparencies reflected, which is something a lot of games either cull entirely or massively reduce. even the Raytracing Only version of Metro Exodus culls basically any transparencies from the reflections, which results in completely naked trees in reflective surfaces, due to all the leafs being culled or extremely weird looking walls that miss many details





so basically, the RT reflections shown so far a WAYS ahead of the ones in many other games.
 
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It was a joke in reply to his tinfoil hat comment. You missed his excuse (He was being serious) and instead went for me (And I was joking) which indicates your bias.

I have trouble understand humor sometimes. It's why I don't go to any comedy clubs. As for my bias well everyone has their preferences including yourself. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm not the type of person that buys all systems and pretends to be neutral.
 
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kyliethicc

Member
I had no idea there was even a 1584p option

Wonder how confused I can make a Best Buy sales associate by asking if any TVs support it
Horizon Zero Dawn has 2 modes on PS4 Pro.

One mode is checkerboard 2160p, but the other mode is native 1368p.

Guerrilla picked that exact resolution in order to offer a mode that has a perfect locked 30 FPS with no frame drops.

 

01011001

Banned
Horizon Zero Dawn has 2 modes on PS4 Pro.

One mode is checkerboard 2160p, but the other mode is native 1368p.

Guerrilla picked that exact resolution in order to offer a mode that has a perfect locked 30 FPS with no frame drops.


the 1368p mode is also to be recommended if you don't want CB artifacts. and since the game has a lot of moving transparencies (high gras for example) these artifacts are quite noticeable.
same is true for Ghost of Tsushima... but that drops all the way down to 1080p
 
You don't wanna go down this road, dude...


"Series X is designed to deliver a next generation experience"

which also includes ray tracing, arguably one of the biggest part of next-gen experience...



Here comes the lie... "series s is designed to deliver the same great next-gen experience"

If it's designed to deliver the "same great next-gen experience" as X at lower res, then where's ray tracing on the S when the X has it?
Your claim isn't valid here. Doom Eternal wasn't developed with next gen in mind, it was developed for last gen. This update is a patch to a last gen game. You can't judge the xss for not having any ray tracing here. Judge it in the new gen games.
 

kyliethicc

Member
1584 is a weird number why not make it an even 1600p is id Software trying to make the Series X look better now since they are apart of Microsoft now.
Its 77% of 1800p. They probably don't pick the resolution exactly, they probably just use a slider and pick a percentage.

Or another way, 1800p is 70% of 2160p and 1584p is 53% of 2160p.
 
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Experience and feature means - framerate, raytracing, resolution. All of it. And he mentioned it in one sentence. No need to spin it. You look ridiculous now. I mean, YOU ARE.
Nope. Experience means features like quick resume, SSD, fps boost, load times, and game libraries. And ridiculous looks like a guy criticizing the cheapest current gen game console that has more features than more expensive consoles over things that were NEVER advertised. The XSS is a fantastic upgrade over the X1 and you can't show any evidence that it isn't.

It's placed by MS themselves.

Nothing wrong with that. It's their false messaging that I have problems with.

"Same experience as X, at lower res." is a lie though and shouldn't have been advertised as such.

If it were to offer the same experience then where's RT in DOOM Eternal, Control? Where's 120fps in Cold War, Destiny 2 on the S?

It's inconsistent.
And nope! A lie is saying Jason Ronald said all XSS games would have raytracing or that the ONLY difference would be the resolution. You imagined that. Doom Eternal has the same 120 fps mode the XSX has. Control is a 3rd party game. MS has no 'control' over how a 3rd party uses the XSS' features. The XSS continues to offer features last gen consoles don't have and even features some current gen don't. Sorry that upsets you.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Nope. Experience means features like quick resume, SSD, fps boost, load times, and game libraries.

And nope! A lie is saying Jason Ronald said all XSS games would have raytracing or that the ONLY difference would be the resolution. You imagined that. Doom Eternal has the same 120 fps mode the XSX has.
Splitting hairs, looking forward to the next time you take PS5 to task on minutiae and make it a battle of principles: “yeah never promised 1440p same experience as XSX they meant 1080p really, at 1080p same experience does not mean RT, etc…” sure… 🤔.
 
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Splitting hairs, looking forward to the next time you take PS5 to task on minutiae and make it a battle of principles: “yeah never promised 1440p same experience as XSX they meant 1080p really, at 1080p same experience does not mean RT, etc…” sure… 🤔.
I am fair and I haven't mentioned the PS5 in this thread at all. I am also on record saying that MS should have said the XSS is 'up to' 1440p over just saying 1440p. I also know what MS DIDN'T say and that was all its games would have raytracing. How would that even work when all XSX games don't have it? The whole holding the XSS to some imaginary standard is silly. It's the cheapest box doing things other boxes can't that's pretty fantastic. No need to hate.
 

Boy bawang

Member
Series S missing RT on a 60fps, last gen, and now first party game, is a bit worrying. I really hoped it would just be the "same games at lower resolution", but that shit is gimped way beyond that.
 

scalman

Member
Like res and fps would mean anything to video settings .they can play there as they want and it wont be maxed settings so untill we see real footage
 

Duchess

Member
Wahoo! I've not played DOOM Eternal yet. Bought a copy for PS4, then heard there would be a PS5 free upgrade, so the disc has been sitting in my backlog for literally 8 months! LOL!
 
Series S missing RT on a 60fps, last gen, and now first party game, is a bit worrying. I really hoped it would just be the "same games at lower resolution", but that shit is gimped way beyond that.
It is not worrying at all. It has a 120fps mode last gen consoles lack entirely. No one ever said the only difference would be resolution except for Sony fans on this board and perhaps Twitter. I wouldn't trust them to be honest about anything dealing with Xbox.

I wonder if One X version really is going to be better. Series S will be 120hz with no load times. I think I'd prefer that over the One X version.
It's not. No one is holding up the X1X as a superior device over the XSS except for the same Sony fans talking about raytracing in all XSS games and saying the only difference being resolution. Please disregard anything they say regarding the XSS or Xbox in general until they can be honest brokers.
 
Doom Eternal is such a fantastic game, and is getting free update.

Why is nobody talking about that, focusing instead on eternal Series S debate.

I for one, was waiting for this update to play on Series S. Wasn't interested in One S version via backwards compatibility. Doom (2016) is coming via gamepass too so I have whole package to get through. This changes what I will be playing next (it's gonna be Doom baby).
 

Calverz

Member
You don't wanna go down this road, dude...
hHPLKvn.jpg

Lu5yjXZ.jpg

"Series X is designed to deliver a next generation experience"

which also includes ray tracing, arguably one of the biggest part of next-gen experience...

2SqTPdQ.jpg

5ChGvWJ.jpg

Here comes the lie... "series s is designed to deliver the same great next-gen experience"

If it's designed to deliver the "same great next-gen experience" as X at lower res, then where's ray tracing on the S when the X has it?
Geez you are obsessed with this. Have you bought a series s? I recommend it. Great little machine mate. The fact it can run doom eternal at 120fps is a miracle in itself. The thing is tiny.
 

Calverz

Member
Doom Eternal is such a fantastic game, and is getting free update.

Why is nobody talking about that, focusing instead on eternal Series S debate.

I for one, was waiting for this update to play on Series S. Wasn't interested in One S version via backwards compatibility. Doom (2016) is coming via gamepass too so I have whole package to get through. This changes what I will be playing next (it's gonna be Doom baby).
Xbox had a great conference. Therefore anything to spread FUD or derail by these people is becoming desperate.
 

HAL-01

Member
Nearly native 4K in 120FPS and RT modes? Wonder if there are other shortcomings to achieve that?
The game already ran at near 4K60fps on last gen consoles, the new consoles are more than twice as powerful than the one x so they had plenty of performance headroom
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I am fair and I haven't mentioned the PS5 in this thread at all. I am also on record saying that MS should have said the XSS is 'up to' 1440p over just saying 1440p. I also know what MS DIDN'T say and that was all its games would have raytracing. How would that even work when all XSX games don't have it? The whole holding the XSS to some imaginary standard is silly.
Not al games need to have RT, but if they have it on XSX then the SAME experience at a lower resolution would seem to imply it.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
the Series S has more ram than the base Xbox one, and it has fast storage, meaning textures can be loaded in and out faster. all of this added up results in the Series S being able to display way better textures, and especially for the target resolution.

also it has been demonstrated that the GPU of the Series S can hold up to the One X very well. the One X version of Forza Horizon 4 looks worse in the 60fps mode than the Series S version does.

Gears 5 too, by the way. And its framerate doesn't ever drop on Series S, while One X drops blow 50 occasionaly. At 60fps, Eternal on Series S shouldn't look worse than the One X version. Its a small difference in resolution you likely won't see on your TV, but so far we've seen S games pushing better textures and less pop in due to its faster storage solution. Tony Hawk for example has much better IQ on S.

The S is like 299 bucks. I mean, I still see base PS4's being offered at that price.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
If we are gonna hold the series S to every game and mode available with rt and or 1440p, then series x and ps5 had better hit 4k with rt and or 120fps. Oh wait, they don't........why the double standard?
Grasping at straws trying to shift the conversation into a XSX vs PS5 strawman (far away from the XSS = same experience as XSX at a lower resolution argument as possible).
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
Grasping at straws trying to shift the conversation into a XSX vs PS5 strawman (far away from the XSS = same experience as XSX at a lower resolution argument as possible).

It's a legitimate point, take time to notice that those who like to quote "strawman" arguments are typically pompous asses who have no ability to even consider viewpoints that diverge from thier own bubble, while meanwhile making zero counterpoint or rebuttal.
 
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Series S missing RT on a 60fps, last gen, and now first party game, is a bit worrying. I really hoped it would just be the "same games at lower resolution", but that shit is gimped way beyond that.

Don't trust DarkMage and what he said. He is trying brainwash you

It is not worrying at all. It has a 120fps mode last gen consoles lack entirely. No one ever said the only difference would be resolution except for Sony fans on this board and perhaps Twitter. I wouldn't trust them to be honest about anything dealing with Xbox.


It's not. No one is holding up the X1X as a superior device over the XSS except for the same Sony fans talking about raytracing in all XSS games and saying the only difference being resolution. Please disregard anything they say regarding the XSS or Xbox in general until they can be honest brokers.

Director of program management for the Xbox, Jason Ronald literally said this : "This means Xbox Series S delivers the SAME incredible experience next-generation experience and features as Series X"
 
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