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Playstation acquires Firesprite

SLB1904

Banned
Meaning you can't even understand that your own link strengthens what I said. Another excerpt from it:

"Rather than purchasing active developers, Sony has traditionally opened studios in the past - growing its first party library organically. This news indicates that this will continue, while sprinkling in a couple of purchases along the way."

Yep. You have a reading comprehension problem.
See my Edit. There was a misunderstanding. We basically talking about the same thing
 

SaucyJack

Member
Organic growth does not include M&A at all:


What MS and Sony are both doing when acquiring new companies is inorganic growth, which is to say M&A. It doesn't matter if you are acquiring a 1 man team or Activision. Both are acquisition targets and inorganic growth. We should just look at the value that each acquisition is bringing, if any.

Sony should have invested more into SE when they had ~9% equity on the JV instead of divesting, but that's neither here nor there.

Thats a simplistic definition and I think my point was explained

And yeah, Sony should have bought Square Enix back in the day. They should also have taken a stake in Epic at the time Tencent did. And if my auntie had balls she’d be my uncle.
 
Thats a simplistic definition and I think my point was explained

And yeah, Sony should have bought Square Enix back in the day. They should also have taken a stake in Epic at the time Tencent did. And if my auntie had balls she’d be my uncle.
That's not simplistic. It's the definition of the term. The way you used it is, plain and simple, wrong. You can either learn how to use the term or continue to use it incorrectly.

Weird comparison there at the end since Sony had legit options to invest in SE, but I digress.
 

kyliethicc

Member
It gets worse, Sony closes UK VR studio, then buys another UK VR studio.

That's just smart business.

Firesprite are 250 devs in Liverpool, north England. They can do VR games.
Have 2 games in development.

Manchester Studio was 30 devs in Manchester, north England, doing a VR game.
Failed to ship a game for 5 years.

Buying Firesprite made Manchester Studio redundant.
The closure of one and acquisition of the other are clearly linked.
 
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M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I'd be happy with just Kadokawa (From), Remedy or IOI. Even Arc System Works....
no-michael-scott.gif


Best devs in the industry shouldn't be bound to Jimbo.
 

Hezekiah

Banned
Release Bluepoint on the back catalogue of Sony IP. There is a lot of quality there. Bethesda was bought as MS First Party IP isn't as deep as Sony's.

Of the PS partnerships currently announced, there won't be attempts to buy them until they are proven, just like previous studios.

It takes time, no need to buy SE as the main games are tied to PS (see FFXVI) so no need to buy the lot if they are open to exclusives with the big guns.

I can't see Konami selling but I'd love to see their IP licenced out for Sony to work on.

Capcom should have been bought before they turned things around. More expensive now and better off keeping a partnership between the two. Of the lot, that's the dream studio.

Even if you want the big publisher bought, I'm okay with this acquisition. If Sony buy too much too quickly, they could mismanage the studios.
With the likes of Firewalk, Haven Entertainment and Deviation Games, I'd bet my bottom dollar that Sony have first dibs on them anyway.

But as you say it makes sense to have them prove themselves before adding the significant additional cost of ownership.
 

yurinka

Member
Closes Japan Studio and then creates a new Japan Studio,closes Studio Liverpool and buys them back after they change their name......Sony,are you drunk,lol.
Sony didn't close Japan Studio, they will continue developing their own games rebranded as Team Asobi (name of one of their Japan Studio teams, that now will be the core of the studio) and their Japanese XDEV team will continue publishing Japanese 2nd party games like Death Stranding Director's Cut, but now under XDEV instead of under Japan Studio/Team Asobi.
 

yurinka

Member
It gets worse, Sony closes UK VR studio, then buys another UK VR studio.

The only thing these two studios have in common is that they are Sony UK studios.

Manchester was a studio that wasn't capable to release a small VR game in 5 years. They didn't release anything. It was normal to shut them down.

Firesprite instead in 8 years did help Sony to make the tech demo minigame collections to showcase the PS4 camera and PSVR, did help them making as small experiment a F2P LBP autorunner for mobile and Vita, released a good AAA new IP for VR and ported it to all non VR platforms. In addition to this, they have many former SCE Liverpool members who did work on their iconic Wipeout brand and have a long story working with PlayStation and people like Hermen. Firesprite staff has a long tradition outside VR and they are working on two AAA games, they won't only make VR games.
 
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yurinka

Member
Kadokawa is something that Sony Corp might be interested in, not Sony Computer, though I do not see why they'd pursue it. As for Remedy, and despite the rumours that were circulating, there has been no "rapprochement" between them and Sony. They have not released a single PS Studios funded game as of yet, and the genre they are good at is well represented by other PS teams already. In any case, we shall see.
Kadokawa released dozens of exclusive PlayStation games since the first PlayStation, has an extensive catalog of great games that would be a great addition to PS Now and could develop cool new stuff. Not only from themselves, Kadowawa owns other game publishers or developers like From Software, Spike Chunsoft, ASCII Media Works, Kadokawa Shoten (different label than the normal Kadokawa), Enterbrain or Media Factory.

On top of that, they own a ton of popular manga and anime IPs (+Japanese cinema stuff) not only for their movie and anime divisions, but also to release cool videogames using them. One of the Sony goals is also to collaborate more between their different divisions (games, cinema, streaming apps, music, etc).

They are a good fit to be acquired. Other good candidates would be Bluepoint, Kojipro, ARC System Works, Supermassive or Quantic Dream. Plus a top Asian company in F2P mobile and/or PC gaming markets, specially in the Asia region, that would be open to bring the Sony IPs to mobile because Sony wants to grow in these markets.

The link does not contradict what I mentioned at all. From your link:

" At last night's investor meeting, Jim Ryan stated that PlayStation is planning on investing in its line-up of first-party studios "through organic growth and acquisitions" as the PlayStation 5 inches closer to release."

Meaning to organically grow their first party (i.e. SP, ND, etc) and acquire other studios to further grow. Not sure what the confusion is here.
Jimbo, Hermen and other Sony executives on their investor meettings/reports mentioned this topic multiple times. They plan to continue growing their exiting 1st party studios to allow them to work in more projects at the same time (as I remember only for this they had a budget for this year of over $300M, which would mean to almost double their headcount in a year) and also plan to continue making more acquisitions, focusing on studios with a long tradition of previous partnerships (which means making PS exclusives of some kind) with them.

In a separate topic, they also planned to invest hard on 2nd party and 3rd party exclusives, resulting all this on the plan of PS5 getting more exclusives than any other previous PlayStation console.

Job listings from last year revealed Firesprite were working on a VR version of a multi-million selling PlayStation IP for Sony.
Knack VR confirmed
Just kidding, let's hope it was a Wipeout game

And they said there is no topping Bathesda
I love Wipeout, and I think I never bought a Bethesda game.
 
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This is fine and all and I wish them the best, but aren’t these PlayStation acquisitions kind of like marrying your high school sweetheart after several years?
 

Kerotan

Member
Small dev who will make small but probably good games for PS5. Maybe a VR game. Either that or they will be a support studio.
 
If this venture births another Wipeout with VR support I am all in on it. Ill even buy a PlayStation again to get me some of that sweet sweet anti-gravity racing.
 

kyliethicc

Member
Small dev who will make small but probably good games for PS5. Maybe a VR game. Either that or they will be a support studio.
They are over 250 devs making them the 5th largest developer Sony owns.

They are currently making 2 games.

"... part of the excitement around the acquisition is the ability to nurture this team into becoming one of PlayStation's major studios, sitting side-by-side with the likes of Naughty Dog, Santa Monica and Guerrilla Games."

"Hulst says that the developer will be working on its own projects going forward."


 

kyliethicc

Member
What was the fucking point of closing Liverpool studio if you just buy them back again? Sony realising its mistake?
Different CEOs.

Andrew House shut down Liverpool Studio, along with many others. He didn't believe in buying new studios. During his leadership Worldwide Studios shrunk. He never made any acquisitions.

While Jim Ryan clearly has no problem buying studios. Since taking over 2019, he has bought Insomniac, Housemarque, Nixxes (support), and now Firesprite. And Bluepoint, too (most likely.)
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
What was the fucking point of closing Liverpool studio if you just buy them back again? Sony realising its mistake?
Gaming is a weird industry where you see studios shut down all the time. Then a month later, the same guys who shut down the studio get together and open another one with a new logo. It's their way of easily cutting the cord with legacy employees and history.

Perhaps, there was something bad with the Liverpool studio that hung around like a black cloud. Gassing it, and then buying back a new studio which is stated as founded by ex-Liverpool employees is like starting over similar to above. They like the direction and core employees Firesprite has now, while 10 years ago when they gassed SOny Liverpool, they didn't like what they saw back then.
 
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yurinka

Member
They are over 250 devs making them the 5th largest developer Sony owns.

They are currently making 2 games.

"... part of the excitement around the acquisition is the ability to nurture this team into becoming one of PlayStation's major studios, sitting side-by-side with the likes of Naughty Dog, Santa Monica and Guerrilla Games."

"Hulst says that the developer will be working on its own projects going forward."


Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Guerrilla and who else? It's about the same size than Sony Santa Monica ('more than 250' as of 2021), Bend, their UK studios, Polyphony, Pixel Opus, Asobi are smaller. San Diego maybe? I can't find their size

What was the fucking point of closing Liverpool studio if you just buy them back again? Sony realising its mistake?
Back then it was an unprofitable and very expensive studio and Sony needed to cut the fat because due to PS3 design and launch & early years strategy their financials were in a bad shape and the studio was focused on the dying genre (outside a hadful top IPs) of racing games.

As Firesprite the studio has been releasing many projects so it may be profitable (Sony wouldn't buy a turd), pretty likely reviewed their staff and leadership to improve it, now it works with more genres and did a great job in an area where Sony wants to grow (VR) and grew to a size to a point they are working on (at least) two AAA games at the same time. Sony now has a different management (Jim Ryan and Hermen) and a ton of money due to PS4 and PS5 and many relatively recent 1st party published games being a huge success.
 
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Robb

Gold Member
I haven't played any of their games. It sounds like they're more of a VR-games studio. I guess it makes sense considering PSVR2, but that's nothing I'm interested in personally.
 

kyliethicc

Member
Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Guerrilla and who else? It's about the same size than Sony Santa Monica ('more than 250' as of 2021), Bend, their UK studios, Polyphony, Pixel Opus, Asobi are smaller. San Diego maybe? I can't find their size
Guerrilla - 350-375
Naughty Dog - 300-325
Insomniac - 300-325
Santa Monica - 275-300
Firesprite - 250-275
Polyphony - 150-175
Sucker Punch - 150-175
Bend - 125-150

Everyone else is under 100.
 

yurinka

Member
Guerrilla - 350-375
Naughty Dog - 300-325
Insomniac - 300-325
Santa Monica - 275-300
Firesprite - 250-275
Polyphony - 150-175
Sucker Punch - 150-175
Bend - 125-150

Everyone else is under 100.
Source? I did use wikipedia. Interesting, looking at these numbers seems their studios have over 2000 employees, probably almost 3000 including support studios, XDEV, their HQs and so on.

And are you sure San Diego has less than 100? They deliver a AAA game every year.

I haven't played any of their games. It sounds like they're more of a VR-games studio. I guess it makes sense considering PSVR2, but that's nothing I'm interested in personally.
They have over 250 employees, are working on two AAA games (an online shooter and a narrative adventure) and said won't only make VR stuff. They have been hiring talent from ND, Rockstar, Rocksteady or Ubisoft.
 
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MrFunSocks

Banned
I’m surprised to see so many “lol organic growth!” comments here, given that this studio has literally only made PlayStation exclusive games using PlayStation intellectual properties, and consists of former Sony employees. It doesn't get much more “organic” than that.

Pretty much a nothing acquisition because of that though. They were pretty much first party already and showed no sign of even considering releasing a game on any non Sony platform. Weird how people are acting like this is some huge “get”. Just more list wars ammo I guess.

Congrats to the owners of the company.

Will be interesting to see if the anti-multiplayer narrative around this place starts changing soon.

I look forward to playing their MP game on Xbox since they didn’t explicitly and repeatedly state that it will not ever release on Xbox ;)
 
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Shmunter

Member
I’m surprised to see so many “lol organic growth!” comments here, given that this studio has literally only made PlayStation exclusive games using PlayStation intellectual properties, and consists of former Sony employees. It doesn't get much more “organic” than that.

Pretty much a nothing acquisition because of that though. They were per much first party already and showed no sign of even considering releasing a game on any non Sony platform. Weird how people are acting like this is some huge “get”. Just more list wars ammo I guess.

Congrats to the owners of the company.

Will be interesting to see if the anti-multiplayer narrative around this place starts changing soon.

I look forward to playing their MP game on Xbox since they didn’t explicitly and repeatedly state that it will not ever release on Xbox ;)
True. But it does concrete in some future stability.

Look at supermassive now that Sony is no longer holding them under their wing. Low relevance, just now finalised a port job on Little Nightmares 2. You don’t take on that sort of work as a creative studio unless you need it.
 
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Larlight

Member
Moving goalposts already?

Because Ryan and Hulst told us bedtime stories about "organic growth" :messenger_tears_of_joy:

wow 3 studios with no ip’s of value compared to 8 with established IP’s. Such an amazing comparison….

Sony already mentioned they are going to have more software rolling out for the PS5 gen than they did for the PS4 well before the Bethesda Acquisition was announced.
 

zedinen

Member
SIE has been hiring hundreds of devs and pouring billions of dollars into PlayStation Studios since early 2019. Its M&A activity is modest compared to internal investment.

Sony owns valuable IPs and studios, which is why its M&A are small targeted acquisitions of close partners designed to fill gaps, create synergies, and produce instant results.

Sony only paid $229 million for its acquisition of Insomniac Games, a modest investment compared to Microsoft's $8 billion acquisition of ZeniMax.

But the combination of Spider-Man+Insomniac has had a massive impact.
 

Felessan

Member
Closes Japan Studio and then creates a new Japan Studio,closes Studio Liverpool and buys them back after they change their name......Sony,are you drunk,lol.
For the last 15 years Sony has quite clear strategy - develop/buy studios that performs, kick out/closure studios that are not. It keeps them healthy and let them grow steadily.

What was the fucking point of closing Liverpool studio if you just buy them back again? Sony realising its mistake?
For some people kick in the ass is the only thing they need to get back on track.
 
The one that closed one single VR focused studio because that studio wasn't capable of releasing a single VR game in 5 years.

So it was logical to shut it down. The studios who actually released VR specific games for them like London, Team Asobi (formerly known as Japan Studio, now their Japanese XDEV part is under XDEV instead of under them), Firesprite or From Software are still there.



MS had to made bold acquisitions because they had a small army.

Sony doesn't need them, they already have the most powerful and complete army, so they only get need to buy smaller things to support weaker areas where they want to improve, secure or where simply they want to add more variety to grow: Nixxes for PC ports, FireSprite for futuristic arcade racing/Wipeout and VR, Housemarque for smaller quality arcadey games with a twist, EVO for eSports/fighting games...

SONY closed down Guerrilla Cambridge after the studio was meant to focus on just on VR games, to which it made one. I guess PC ports are ok now too?
The acquisitions Sony are doing this year look like ones that are made for retain parts of their strategy this gen. To create more VR games...or more PC ports or more Multiplayer games... There's an obvious goal here. They don't just need to buy an entire publisher to have games
PC ports were bad for Xbox but now make sense for the PlayStation, I thought multiplayer games were wrong too or is that again... just when Xbox makes them :p
 
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SaucyJack

Member
That's not simplistic. It's the definition of the term. The way you used it is, plain and simple, wrong. You can either learn how to use the term or continue to use it incorrectly.

Weird comparison there at the end since Sony had legit options to invest in SE, but I digress.

It’s A definition not THE definition. Not all M&A is created equal, as I think I quite clearly articulated with the examples I used for both Sony and a Microsoft. Real life has nuance.

A key part of definitions of organic growth is about using current resources and no debt, this is quite clearly well within the parameters of Sony using surplus funds from existing operations to grow those same operations.

Anyway, not going to argue it further as it’s pointless. This is a good and sensible acquisition. Expect more.
 

SaucyJack

Member
What was the fucking point of closing Liverpool studio if you just buy them back again? Sony realising its mistake?

It’s not a like for like comparison and things change over time.

Sony was in a different place financially in 2012 when they rationalisEd their European studios ahead of the PS4 launch.

Studio Liverpool (previously Psygnosis) was about 100 people.

When the studio was closed people went 3 ways
- retained within XDEV
- Firesprite
- Playrise Digital

Firesprite, formed from part of Studio Liverpool, has grown to more than double the size that Studio Liverpool ever was.
 

kuncol02

Banned
I’m surprised to see so many “lol organic growth!” comments here, given that this studio has literally only made PlayStation exclusive games using PlayStation intellectual properties
LITERALLY not true. Don't use words you don't understand. Their only full game is available on PS4, XOne, PC, Switch and in VR version on PSVR. Outside of that they helped with two minigame collections for Sony and made VR advert for US Army.
 

Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
Closes Japan Studio and then creates a new Japan Studio,closes Studio Liverpool and buys them back after they change their name......Sony,are you drunk,lol.
Probably allows them to clean out any deadwood, reduce pension liabilities etc. Also in the case of Firesprite, I think the founders are all ex Studio Liverpool, but many of the 250 employees will have not been, so there will be some Sony DNA in there, but it is not like they took the whole studio.
 

Mr.ODST

Member
It’s not a like for like comparison and things change over time.

Sony was in a different place financially in 2012 when they rationalisEd their European studios ahead of the PS4 launch.

Studio Liverpool (previously Psygnosis) was about 100 people.

When the studio was closed people went 3 ways
- retained within XDEV
- Firesprite
- Playrise Digital

Firesprite, formed from part of Studio Liverpool, has grown to more than double the size that Studio Liverpool ever was.
There was also the GFPQA aswell within that studio (when the team split)
 

CamHostage

Member
True. But it does concrete in some future stability.

Look at supermassive now that Sony is no longer holding them under their wing. Low relevance, just now finalised a port job on Little Nightmares 2. You don’t take on that sort of work as a creative studio unless you need it.

I get what you're saying and agree that high-class developers in spotlight roles for major publishers fade quickly when out on their own (another example was Left Field Productions, who made the classy Excitebike 64 and also had some success with the NBA Courtside games for Nintendo, but then little before or after that Nintendo relationship was ever worth noticing.)

In Supermassive's case though, they have the The Dark Pictures franchise (which continues the Until Dawn mechanics,) and through that, they have a relationship with Bandai Namco that may have gotten them involved in helping on Little Nightmares with Tarsier. They're established, and they remain versatile even though they have a homegrown franchise now. Dark Pictures doesn't seem to be a blockbuster, but it's still running, and House of Ashes is said to be the best one, we'll see.

But they certainly made way bigger waves making just one game for Sony than they did three of the exact same type of games for Bandai Namco.
 
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ZywyPL

Banned
Sony owns valuable IPs and studios

Just going by the titles people would love to see on the tiday's show, it does show how many unique IPs there are associated with Playstation. They could literally have 50 different exclusive IPs for the PS5, but they lack the man power to deliver just a fraction of that wide portfolio. So yeah, the more studios the better.
 

John Wick

Member
Sony, Sony closes Studio Liverpool.
The Studio Liverpool people found Firesprite.
Sony buys Firesprite.

Mmmh...
It's typical Sony stupidity. They just acquired the talent they had at Studio Liverpool again but paid for it. Watch they'll do it again for their Japanese studio. MS caught Sony off guard with the Zenimax purchase and now Sony is scrambling. If they had managed their teams far better Liverpool and Evolution would still be Sony.
 

kuncol02

Banned
Firesprite, formed from part of Studio Liverpool, has grown to more than double the size that Studio Liverpool ever was.
They are size of CDPR during Witcher 3 release and since 2013 released one game no one heard about. Compare that with Double Fine which since 2013 released 11 games (8 without remakes of Lucas adventure games) with quarter of that team.
 
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