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Covid 19 Thread: [no bitching about masks of Fauci edition]


Season 7 Oops GIF by Workaholics

And anyone that died from stage 4 cancer that tested positive was a covid death.
 

T8SC

Member
While many European countries are seeing steep rises in coronavirus cases and preparing to step up Covid restrictions, the UK is currently going in the other direction.
Experts say it is tricky to explain the trends, but immunity from vaccines and past infections may be part of it.
Until recently, the UK had been seeing the highest rates of cases and deaths in Europe.
In recent weeks these have been falling in Britain.
Source - UK bucking trend of rising Covid cases in Europe - BBC News

Why are we still surprised by this & reporting it?

Does every country go through identical flu/other virus seasons too? The same happened last year/earlier this year. It comes in waves, its a virus. In a few weeks it'll tail off in those other countries too. Why haven't we "learned to live with this" yet?

Yes its deadly, but so are many other viruses. We have queues of cancer/leukemia/dementia etc patients not being seen because they're either too scared (Thanks media) or because we're still filling beds up with vaccinated people who have caught Covid, again.

I'm not part of the tinfoil hat anti-vax crowd but the media are either fucking stupid or its slow news day and they want clicks. Its 2 years next month and we're still reporting this like its new-news.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Source - UK bucking trend of rising Covid cases in Europe - BBC News

Why are we still surprised by this & reporting it?

Does every country go through identical flu/other virus seasons too? The same happened last year/earlier this year. It comes in waves, its a virus. In a few weeks it'll tail off in those other countries too. Why haven't we "learned to live with this" yet?

Yes its deadly, but so are many other viruses. We have queues of cancer/leukemia/dementia etc patients not being seen because they're either too scared (Thanks media) or because we're still filling beds up with vaccinated people who have caught Covid, again.

I'm not part of the tinfoil hat anti-vax crowd but the media are either fucking stupid or its slow news day and they want clicks. Its 2 years next month and we're still reporting this like its new-news.
We have articles about flu season every year to. Plus we are mainly filling up hospital beds with unvaccinated people who have caught Covid, hospitalization is rare for those fully vaccinated.
"During April 4–July 17, a total of 569,142 (92%) COVID-19 cases, 34,972 (92%) hospitalizations, and 6,132 (91%) COVID-19–associated deaths were reported among persons not fully vaccinated, and 46,312 (8%) cases, 2,976 (8%) hospitalizations, and 616 (9%) deaths were reported among fully vaccinated persons in the 13 jurisdictions"
 
Source - UK bucking trend of rising Covid cases in Europe - BBC News

Why are we still surprised by this & reporting it?

Does every country go through identical flu/other virus seasons too? The same happened last year/earlier this year. It comes in waves, its a virus. In a few weeks it'll tail off in those other countries too. Why haven't we "learned to live with this" yet?

Yes its deadly, but so are many other viruses. We have queues of cancer/leukemia/dementia etc patients not being seen because they're either too scared (Thanks media) or because we're still filling beds up with vaccinated people who have caught Covid, again.

I'm not part of the tinfoil hat anti-vax crowd but the media are either fucking stupid or its slow news day and they want clicks. Its 2 years next month and we're still reporting this like its new-news.

mainland always lagging behind glorious Blighty 💪
 

Cyberpunkd

Gold Member
Yes its deadly, but so are many other viruses. We have queues of cancer/leukemia/dementia etc patients not being seen because they're either too scared (Thanks media) or because we're still filling beds up with vaccinated people who have caught Covid, again.

I'm not part of the tinfoil hat anti-vax crowd but the media are either fucking stupid or its slow news day and they want clicks. Its 2 years next month and we're still reporting this like its new-news.
On the bolded - ding ding ding. You cannot make BREAKING NEWS by constantly writing about cancer. Tell cancer to go back to disease school since it failed and kills people over years and decades. Covid-19 is now the new sexy kid on the block.

Gets me every time people write about unvaccinated 'struggling for each breath, asking to be give the vaccine' - yes, because cancer is just super cheerful till the moment you die.
 
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Scared people generally want two things: certainties & somebody to blame. Fauci became the perfect target because he could not provide the first thing, and fit the bill for the second.
So that's why they blame the unvaxxed for the pandemic. Everything done and told what would end it didn't work and the few unvaxxed are a good scapegoat
 

QSD

Member
UK: good amount of vaccinated people, no lockdown
Australia: good amount of unvaccinated people, lockdown
well, here in the Netherlands the official figure is 84% vaccinated, but yesterday we still entered a new 3 week lockdown because of towering case numbers and increasing pressure on hospitals/IC beds

I was reading this (dutch language) article on the NOS (=dutch BBC, basically) website and it paints a pretty bleak picture about what's ahead. I'll throw it in translate and pick some paragraphs:

Experts: autumn wave likely next year, letting go of all measures is no longer possible​

Have enough people been vaccinated in the Netherlands, so that we can manage without corona measures? That was the question at the end of the summer. We now know the answer: even with a vaccination coverage of 86 percent, with vaccines that provide excellent protection against hospital admissions, an autumn wave turned out to be unavoidable.

But what does that mean for next year? Can we still do without measures in the winter? The NOS asked nine epidemiologists and immunologists to look ahead.

Professor of epidemiology Mirjam Kretzschmar was curious this summer what would happen if the measures were released. The result was disappointing. "I expected that we would have another wave, but not that it would rise so quickly." As a result, she has become more gloomy about next year.

Epidemiologist Luc Coffeng shares this feeling. When he got on the train in the morning this week, he thought: those mouth caps could become the norm in the Netherlands. "The virus just keeps circulating. I count on the virus to teach us that we have to adjust our behavior or take measures."

Both now assume that we will have to deal with a corona wave again next autumn. Most other experts agree with them. "I wouldn't know why not," said epidemiologist Alma Tostmann. "And such a wave always eventually leads to a wave of hospitalizations."

But will a higher vaccination rate and natural immunity be enough to let everything go next fall? No, most experts think. "We have few examples of successfully eradicating a respiratory infection," said Coffeng. Infectious disease modeler Marino van Zelst is even more pessimistic: "I am not yet convinced that the virus will only flare up in the autumn. That could also happen in the summer."
The only person who really thinks otherwise is epidemiologist Frits Rosendaal. "With the Spanish flu, it was also largely over after three waves. It came back every year, but without disrupting society. If enough people have been infected or vaccinated, the reservoir is a lot emptier. The virus will then only progress slowly. around because it can find few people to infect." With the current high number of infections, he believes that balance could already be achieved after this wave.
Van Zelst thinks this is an illusion, because people probably will not remain immune for a long time. "My housemate has been infected, vaccinated twice and now infected again," he explains by way of illustration.
No one is talking about achieving herd immunity anymore, because it has now become clear that this has become unfeasible. "The delta variant is too contagious. And the vaccine protects too little against infections," concludes Tostmann. "If everyone is now vaccinated, we will have an immunity level of 50 percent, while with the delta variant we need a much higher percentage," she calculates.
Even if everyone is vaccinated, the virus will still circulate. Although that will make a huge difference in the number of hospital admissions.

Everyone a booster shot​

Professor of immunology Marjolein van Egmond is slightly more optimistic than most of her colleagues. She is still taking into account a favorable scenario, in which everyone can receive a booster shot next summer. As a result, people make new antibodies, so that a new wave of infections can be prevented.
But she's not sure if that's realistic. "How long do those antibodies remain? Eventually it goes down again." Moreover, she believes that poor countries should first be given the opportunity to vaccinate, before rich countries give everyone a booster.
For epidemiologist Quirine ten Bosch, the booster shot is the only thing she can think of that could theoretically make a difference in the coming year. But then a booster shot should boost the immunity very well.
"Ultimately, the virus will probably become endemic. It will remain in society, with a very small revival in the winter and then it will be gone again in the summer." She does not dare to predict whether that balance will be found in the coming year.
And so certain basic guidelines also seem necessary next autumn. According to Van Els, it makes a lot of difference how we behave in the cold months. "We still shouldn't shake hands. Don't go to work if you have complaints. Keep your distance where possible. And working from home must be institutionalized in a thoughtful way," she sums up.
Field epidemiologist Amrish Baidjoe: "We have to learn to live with the virus. That does not mean that we should just let go of the virus. But we have to normalize certain things. In countries where there are more frequent virus outbreaks, it is much more common to stay at home if you have a cold or a cold. wearing a mouth-nose mask. That requires a culture change."
These measures can ensure that the R-number remains below 1 and that the virus does not flare up again in the autumn. But that is complicated, thinks Tostmann, because you ask people to follow guidelines in a disciplined way, without the virus spreading. "It takes quite a bit to get everyone on board to do something against something you don't see."
According to Baidjoe, that is the big challenge at the moment. "We have to start thinking about this so that we don't yo-yo from wave to wave. That breaks up society, because you don't give people perspective. They then become resistant to the measures. They become recalcitrant. That's when things really go wrong."

Mutations​

And then there's the 'elephant in the room', the subject that nobody prefers to think about but that always plays a role in the background: the possibility of a mutation of the virus that is more contagious than the current delta variant.
"If we are lucky, it will stay here, because the virus cannot mutate further. If we are unlucky, there will be a variant that our vaccines do not work against," says Van Egmond. That is why, according to her, it is crucial what to do about infections in poor countries. "We really need to invest there. Ultimately, that's in our own interest, so that some mutation doesn't come our way."
Because all experts agree on one thing: if that more aggressive mutation happens, all models and predictions can go in the trash.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
well, here in the Netherlands the official figure is 84% vaccinated, but yesterday we still entered a new 3 week lockdown because of towering case numbers and increasing pressure on hospitals/IC beds

Fully vaxxed rate in Netherlands is only 72%.

uDPzFyJ.jpg


Mind you, UK is even less so 🤷🏻
 
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well, here in the Netherlands the official figure is 84% vaccinated, but yesterday we still entered a new 3 week lockdown because of towering case numbers and increasing pressure on hospitals/IC beds

I was reading this (dutch language) article on the NOS (=dutch BBC, basically) website and it paints a pretty bleak picture about what's ahead. I'll throw it in translate and pick some paragraphs:

UK is officially at 80% vaccinated, 20% with booster...not sure if that counts for anything


Maybe different countries will take different chances, we seemed quite happy to stay around 200 deaths a day
 

QSD

Member
Fully vaxxed rate in Netherlands is only 72%.


Mind you, UK is even less so 🤷🏻

He's most likely talking about 12+

Yeah I've checked, you're right, it 86% of those eligible. Which excludes kids. I get confused because the reporting will sometimes use one figure and then another. IMHO they should just use the overall number in reports like these. :messenger_pouting:

Anyway, I was more worried about the whole "never another handshake, always distancing" predictions these epidemiologists are doing.

UK is officially at 80% vaccinated, 20% with booster...not sure if that counts for anything

Maybe different countries will take different chances, we seemed quite happy to stay around 200 deaths a day
Yeah the UK being on the way down, while you're very close and not all that different socially is really a head scratcher to me... are you lot just more compliant? Cause here on the streets nobody really much seems to care anymore, everyone seems really lax, supermarkets, event and hospitality industry don't really want to act as police and aren't strict with checking masks, let alone distancing. There's even a rather lively trade in both fake QR codes and even fake QR checking apps that simply approve everything.
 
are you lot just more compliant? Cause here on the streets nobody really much seems to care anymore, everyone seems really lax, supermarkets, event and hospitality industry don't really want to act as police and aren't strict with checking masks, let alone distancing. There's even a rather lively trade in both fake QR codes and even fake QR checking apps that simply approve everything.

doesn’t seem that different to me, going shopping you’ll see maybe a handful of people still wearing masks compared to a year back, social distancing not really a thing but stores are keeping track of amount of customers in at once so they still have those controls in place

the vaccine passport for events is not enforced since it’s all down to a person looking at a QR code (if even that) rather than actually scanning it for any centralised system

UK cases have been high and while in a little slump now there’s no guarantee they won’t rise higher over winter, it’ll all be down to the amount of hospitalisations coming off the back of it
 
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Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
He's most likely talking about 12+
That 84% that QSD is referencing is the vaccination rate for 18+


Yeah the UK being on the way down, while you're very close and not all that different socially is really a head scratcher to me... are you lot just more compliant? Cause here on the streets nobody really much seems to care anymore, everyone seems really lax, supermarkets, event and hospitality industry don't really want to act as police and aren't strict with checking masks, let alone distancing. There's even a rather lively trade in both fake QR codes and even fake QR checking apps that simply approve everything.

Notable difference between UK and the Netherlands is also the booster rate. IIRC the Netherlands hasn't started that yet, right? Data from the UK and Israel suggests the booster shots had an effect in keeping older people out of the hospital.

Separate data from the Office for National Statistics, published on Wednesday, showed a rebound in antibody levels in the over-80s to 92 per cent — after falling by six percentage points to 88 per cent between June and October — reflecting the impact of the booster campaign.

Eight in 10 double-jabbed people in England aged 80 and above, who had their second dose at least six months ago, have now received a booster shot, as have 69 per cent of those in the 70-79 age group. Case rates are falling fastest among those aged over 80, down about 30 per cent week on week.

Prof Julian Hiscox, chair in infection and global health at the University of Liverpool, told the FT the downward trend in infections was “unique” because it was caused “almost entirely by the wall of immunity, rather than behavioural changes or restrictions”.

Mathur added that despite the booster rollout the UK could still struggle to cross the herd immunity threshold, a level of protection that would bring the pandemic under control. “I think our chances for achieving herd immunity will be more fully realised once we’ve achieved high vaccination rates in children and addressed issues around vaccine hesitancy and misinformation which are still keeping some key groups away [from getting a first dose],” she said.
 
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Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Now I'm curious, what is the "soaking" thing a reference to? If a girl doesn't twich when the hymen goes it doesn't count or something?

Soaking is a sexual technique that Christians, particularly Mormons (according to reports. I have no idea how widespread this behavior actually is in reality), use to act on their sexual desires without technically breaking any rules that forbid sexual behavior before marriage. You put your dick into a vagina, and then just leave it there, "soaking" it.


No thrusts = not technically sex, apparently, and they think they can outsmart their God who is also omniscient, in order to act on the desires that He designed them with, but then told them it's bad. Epic troll.
 

QSD

Member
doesn’t seem that different to me, going shopping you’ll see maybe a handful of people still wearing masks compared to a year back, social distancing not really a thing but stores are keeping track of amount of customers in at once so they still have those controls in place

the vaccine passport for events is not enforced since it’s all down to a person looking at a QR code (if even that) rather than actually scanning it for any centralised system

UK cases have been high and while in a little slump now there’s no guarantee they won’t rise higher over winter, it’ll all be down to the amount of hospitalisations coming off the back of it
Sounds pretty similar yeah... but LOL at the QR thing, you guys just have people looking at a bunch of blocks on a phone? *facepalm* (but like I just said, we aren't doing much better on the 'complying just for show' front)

That 84% that OSD is referencing is the vaccination rate for 18+

Kids could certainly be the culprit, but there is very little info in the news ATM about where the infections are happening, outside of the usual suspects (the dutch bible belt)
Haven't heard of any infections in my immediate social circle (work/personal). Though the paranoia has people testing like mad when they inevitably get the sniffles.

BTW I've never asked but what country are you from? (if you want to say)
Notable difference between UK and the Netherlands is also the booster rate. IIRC the Netherlands hasn't started that yet, right? Data from the UK and Israel suggests the booster shots had an effect in keeping older people out of the hospital.
Yeah the booster thing is a likely culprit, I just got of the phone with my mum (74) who was asking her GP to get a booster, but no word yet on when they'll roll out. Nobody understands why the government is so slow with this, there are plenty of people who want to get them.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
Soaking is a sexual technique that Christians, particularly Mormons (according to reports. I have no idea how widespread this behavior actually is in reality), use to act on their sexual desires without technically breaking any rules that forbid sexual behavior before marriage. You put your dick into a vagina, and then just leave it there, "soaking" it.


No thrusts = not technically sex, apparently, and they think they can outsmart their God who is also omniscient, in order to act on the desires that He designed them with, but then told them it's bad. Epic troll.
Damn, AND they get a third person to help?

That's what I'm gonna call "a mormon three-way" :p
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
Soaking is a sexual technique that Christians, particularly Mormons (according to reports. I have no idea how widespread this behavior actually is in reality), use to act on their sexual desires without technically breaking any rules that forbid sexual behavior before marriage. You put your dick into a vagina, and then just leave it there, "soaking" it.


No thrusts = not technically sex, apparently, and they think they can outsmart their God who is also omniscient, in order to act on the desires that He designed them with, but then told them it's bad. Epic troll.
Captain America Lol GIF by mtv
 
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FireFly

Member
Yeah the UK being on the way down, while you're very close and not all that different socially is really a head scratcher to me... are you lot just more compliant? Cause here on the streets nobody really much seems to care anymore, everyone seems really lax, supermarkets, event and hospitality industry don't really want to act as police and aren't strict with checking masks, let alone distancing. There's even a rather lively trade in both fake QR codes and even fake QR checking apps that simply approve everything.
The UK has been at 35,000+ daily cases for months, with the actual case numbers likely being at least double that. In Europe, cases were falling or steady, but at a much lower level, so there was more limited opportunity to develop herd immunity in the population. The virus spread seems to have been mainly through schools, but now appears to be burning out there, since the majority of childen have immunity due to infection or vaccination. So the UK essentially had a "head start" over Europe and now is in a much better position going into the winter, at the expense of additional deaths.
 
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Hari Seldon

Member
For those of you who follow this shit when are they going to relax the rules for booster eligibility (US)? All my friends are lying to get theirs but I want to be a good citizen and not jump the line but I want a booster as I got my second shot back in April.
 
For those of you who follow this shit when are they going to relax the rules for booster eligibility (US)? All my friends are lying to get theirs but I want to be a good citizen and not jump the line but I want a booster as I got my second shot back in April.
They have plenty of doses
 
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On the bolded - ding ding ding. You cannot make BREAKING NEWS by constantly writing about cancer. Tell cancer to go back to disease school since it failed and kills people over years and decades. Covid-19 is now the new sexy kid on the block.

Gets me every time people write about unvaccinated 'struggling for each breath, asking to be give the vaccine' - yes, because cancer is just super cheerful till the moment you die.

yeah but if there was a vaccine for cancer I’d be mailining that shit so hard and fast.
 

sinnergy

Member
The UK has been at 35,000+ daily cases for months, with the actual case numbers likely being at least double that. In Europe, cases were falling or steady, but at a much lower level, so there was more limited opportunity to develop herd immunity in the population. The virus spread seems to have been mainly through schools, but now appears to be burning out there, since the majority of childen have immunity due to infection or vaccination. So the UK essentially had a "head start" over Europe and now is in a much better position going into the winter, at the expense of additional deaths.
Everyone is getting their turn … also G9 rule, this amusement park will only let in booster 9 people 🤡
 

betrayal

Banned
"few" lol


jennifer-lawrence-thumbs-up.gif

I think that even people like you should have learned by now that the spread of the virus can be slowed down by vaccination, but not stopped.

The majority of the virus is spread by vaccinated people. In my personal circle, it is exclusively vaccinated people who have spread the virus. In most cases, the children are sick (often with no symptoms) and the parents then spread the virus because they have been vaccinated, but of course still go about their daily lives. Then there are also private gatherings, parties and much more where the virus has an easy time spreading.

Of course, the unvaccinated will be the first to become infected, but they are certainly not one of the main reasons for the increase in numbers.

Unfortunately, it will take a few more weeks until politics and the media slowly catch up and understand this.
 
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Cyberpunkd

Gold Member
Unfortunately, it will take a few more weeks until politics and the media slowly catch up and understand this.
But it’s overwhelmingly the unvaccinated that are in hospital and ICU, so I don’t see what point you are trying to make. Does the vaccine eliminate the spread of the virus? No. Does the vaccine protects against heavy forms of Covid, hospitalisations and death? Yes.

This whole angle is kinda like Polish football team each time: ‘We fought to the teeth the whole 90 minutes, we still lost.’
 
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betrayal

Banned
Not quite. Look up the base rate fallacy to see the error you are making.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

Many vaccinated people often get sick without symptoms, but pass the virus on to vaccinated and unvaccinated people.

If you don't understand it now, you will understand it in 2-6 weeks, when politics and the media have reached the point of publicly acknowledging it. I will quote your post again at that time.

And just to make it clear, because generally a black and white thinking prevails here. I am clearly for the vaccination and of course the vaccination helps against the spread of the virus and also very well against severe courses. But that doesn't mean you have to become blind to facts and studies.

But it’s overwhelmingly the unvaccinated that are in hospital and ICU, so I don’t see what point you are trying to make. Does the vaccine eliminate the spread of the virus? No. Does the vaccine protects against heavy forms of Covid, hospitalisations and death? Yes.

This whole angle is kinda like Polish football team each time: ‘We fought to the teeth the whole 90 minutes, we still lost.’

Of course, the majority of patients in hospitals are unvaccinated. But that was not the point at all. It was simply about the spread of the virus and it is now becoming clearer week by week that it is not the unvaccinated who are spreading the virus the most.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
Of course, the majority of patients in hospitals are unvaccinated. But that was not the point at all. It was simply about the spread of the virus and it is now becoming clearer week by week that it is not the unvaccinated who are spreading the virus the most.

The point here being that if those vaccinated people were unvaccinated the virus would be spreading far faster, harder, and killing far more people. Vaccines slow and eventually contain/stop viruses and diseases. That's how they work.
 
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betrayal

Banned
The point here being that if those vaccinated people were unvaccinated the virus would be spreading far faster, harder, and killing far more people. Vaccines slow and eventually contain/stop viruses and diseases. That's how they work.

Spreading faster? Absolutely.

Harder and killing more people? In general, yes. But that probably doesn't apply to all age groups to the extent that it would be statistically significant.

Also ask people who work in nursing homes with the elderly and people with poor health. It has not been uncommon for 10-15 people to die within a few weeks during normal flu outbreaks. I certainly don't want to compare COVID-19 with the flu (COVID-19 is clearly a bigger problem for us), but you have to look at it in the right perspective.


But what you are totally wrong with is the "vaccines slow and eventually contain/stop viruses" part. The corona virus is endemic. Vaccines never contain or stop endemic viruses.
 

FireFly

Member
I don't see anything wrong with that.

Many vaccinated people often get sick without symptoms, but pass the virus on to vaccinated and unvaccinated people.

If you don't understand it now, you will understand it in 2-6 weeks, when politics and the media have reached the point of publicly acknowledging it. I will quote your post again at that time.

And just to make it clear, because generally a black and white thinking prevails here. I am clearly for the vaccination and of course the vaccination helps against the spread of the virus and also very well against severe courses. But that doesn't mean you have to become blind to facts and studies.
If the vast majority of people are vaccinated, yet not enough to achieve herd immunity, then it's expected that majority of new infections will be spread by the vaccinated. But that doesn't mean the vaccine isn't helping to achieve herd immunity.

For example, if each infected person would on average meet and infect 10 others, and 9/10 are given a 60% effective vaccine, then that would halve the number of vulnerable people to 5/10. From that point, you would only need >4 extra people to have immunity through natural infection to get the virus back under control. Rather than needing 90%+ of the population to get infected naturally to achieve the same thing!
 

betrayal

Banned
If the vast majority of people are vaccinated, yet not enough to achieve herd immunity, then it's expected that majority of new infections will be spread by the vaccinated. But that doesn't mean the vaccine isn't helping to achieve herd immunity.

For example, if each infected person would on average meet and infect 10 others, and 9/10 are given a 60% effective vaccine, then that would halve the number of vulnerable people to 5/10. From that point, you would only need >4 extra people to have immunity through natural infection to get the virus back under control. Rather than needing 90%+ of the population to get infected naturally to achieve the same thing!

All true. I have never claimed anything else.

My point is that people must finally understand that even with a 100% vaccination rate, the number of infections will be very high. The current vaccines simply provide too little protection against infection and spread. Whether 10%, 20% or 30% are unvaccinated plays only a very minor role for the infection rates we will be seeing.

But ff course, it is equally clear that the higher the vaccination rate, the lower the number of hospitalizations and deaths. This is especially true for age groups 50+ and/or immunocompromised and/or overweight people and/or people with pre-existing conditions.
 

FireFly

Member
All true. I have never claimed anything else.

My point is that people must finally understand that even with a 100% vaccination rate, the number of infections will be very high. The current vaccines simply provide too little protection against infection and spread. Whether 10%, 20% or 30% are unvaccinated plays only a very minor role for the infection rates we will be seeing.

But ff course, it is equally clear that the higher the vaccination rate, the lower the number of hospitalizations and deaths. This is especially true for age groups 50+ and/or immunocompromised and/or overweight people and/or people with pre-existing conditions.
Right, but my point is that the higher the vaccination rate, the lower the peak of natural infections will be after you lift restrictions, because less people need to be infected naturally to achieve herd immunity. That's why we have vaccinations even with "endemic" viruses like the flu; to control the peak so we don't need to invest more capacity into the health system.
 

betrayal

Banned
It’s not endemic yet. It’s still a pandemic.
Good. This even further reinforces the fact, that the current vaccines will not stop or contain the virus.


Right, but my point is that the higher the vaccination rate, the lower the peak of natural infections will be after you lift restrictions, because less people need to be infected naturally to achieve herd immunity. That's why we have vaccinations even with "endemic" viruses like the flu; to control the peak so we don't need to invest more capacity into the health system.

There will never be a herd immunity with COVID-19. But you're right with controlling the peak ofc.

But we will have to wait and see how the situation develops over the next few years. Maybe the vaccination rates will not be so important and very specific antiviral and well-tolerated drugs will be easily and cheaply available for everyone. The virus continues to mutate, of course, and it may also become much weaker and less dangerous and eventually not play a role at all. This would of course be by far the worst option for the pharmaceutical industry.
 
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