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[Men_in_Boxes]

Start a poll then, I think you'll find I'm right and you're wrong.

How do I make a poll that accurately reflects the entire market rather than the .00000001 percent of NeoGAF types? As I said "99/100".

When you go on smartphone message boards I'm sure you still see debates about stuff the vast majority of the public doesn't notice or care about.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

She interacts in the first gameplay reveal and it's still missing a PC feature....

There is foliage interaction. Not all of it is going to be interactable. Just like in your footage some of it moves some of it doesn't

 

[Punished Miku]

There is foliage interaction. Not all of it is going to be interactable just like in your footage

Her peach fuzz slightly bends when insects land on her face. Incredible.

 

[Negotiator101]

How do I make a poll that accurately reflects the entire market rather than the .00000001 percent of NeoGAF types? As I said "99/100".

When you go on smartphone message boards I'm sure you still see debates about stuff the vast majority of the public doesn't notice or care about.

I played the trailer for my girlfriend (not a gamer) of HB2 and then Horizon. She thought HB2 was a live action movie at the start. They are a generation apart graphically, Horizon just looks like a last generation game ( hence why it's on PS4) . HB2 could not be done to anything like this fidelity on a PS4. Anybody unless a PS fanboy will tell you exactly the same, but I'm talking to a fanboy so

 

[The artful mincer]

Yeah, i mean if we’re being honest the first game sits at an 89 on metacritic so its properly rated.

It had glaring issues with some of the open world design, crafting/ui, NPCs with questing and animation, and the human combat which honestly felt like a last minute afterthought. Like they were thrown in just to satisfy having more combat outside of the machines.

So far this game has improved

• The Human combat. The new combo system looks fun as hell
• Supposedly they threw out the entire upgrade system and started over. You now have crafting benches a new skill progression
• They added grappling hook AND a glider, two things that automatically make games better. It’s like bacon and avocado
• Improved animations and what looks like storytelling (by the small clip in SoP)
• Free climbing

I think the way they made the first game was they focused on creating a big world, with big concepts and gameplay mechanics but none of it felt really refined. It felt like a new big game that lacked a lot of life. This game feels like they went back in, and combed over all the areas the game lacked in and just threw everything they could to improve them.

The only thing left for me is whether or not the questing and supporting cast have also been upgraded to be far more interesting.

Well sure It has issues but for me combat is most important so I can forgive other problems it has. (Next important would be traversal, exploration, then story and lore together).

I truly feel it was in a class of its own 3rd person combat wise, was very innovative and has since made other very good 3rd person shooters stale in comparison say like the last of us.

I feel its perhaps not appreciated as much for this as it should and every time someone compares it to far cry I want to expode lol.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I played the trailer for my girlfriend (not a gamer) of HB2 and then Horizon. She thought HB2 was a live action movie at the start. They are a generation apart graphically, Horizon just looks like a last generation game ( hence why it's on PS4) . HB2 could not be done to anything like this fidelity on a PS4. Anybody unless a PS fanboy will tell you exactly the same, but I'm talking to a fanboy so

I think HB2 looks better, but the artstyle is why HB2 can look more like a live action movie. You can't get that with Horizon's cartoony aesthetic

Easy on the console wars otherwise mods will catch ya

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I played the trailer for my girlfriend (not a gamer) of HB2 and then Horizon. She thought HB2 was a live action movie at the start. They are a generation apart graphically, Horizon just looks like a last generation game ( hence why it's on PS4) . HB2 could not be done to anything like this fidelity on a PS4. Anybody unless a PS fanboy will tell you exactly the same, but I'm talking to a fanboy so

I'm not sure if a poll of one can tell us very much.

 

[Topher]

I think HB2 looks better, but the artstyle is why HB2 can look more like a live action movie. You can't get that with Horizon's cartoony aesthetic

Easy on the console wars otherwise mods will catch ya

Not sure why these are even being compared since they are drastically different art styles, games, etc. Reminds me of when folks were comparing Forza Horizon to Ratchet and Clank...

 

[TheGodfather07]

I played the trailer for my girlfriend (not a gamer) of HB2 and then Horizon. She thought HB2 was a live action movie at the start. They are a generation apart graphically, Horizon just looks like a last generation game ( hence why it's on PS4) . HB2 could not be done to anything like this fidelity on a PS4. Anybody unless a PS fanboy will tell you exactly the same, but I'm talking to a fanboy so

you call him a fanboy yet your the one trying to turn the thread into console wars. theres a thread for hellblade, if you want to talk about it.

 

[Lethal01]

It was always good, but you had people making moronic comparison with botw in every topic trying to shit on the game.

And the crowd with open world fatigue who enter in every topic about open world to let us know their feelings even if they hate the genre.

Not a perfect game in the slightest, it was my gotg but i onestly score the game an 8\10 with gigantic margin of improvements.

I'm very happy about how much more like Breath of The WIld this games looks, it's a big improvement.

 

[Negotiator101]

I think HB2 looks better, but the artstyle is why HB2 can look more like a live action movie. You can't get that with Horizon's cartoony aesthetic

Yeah I'll agree, I'm thinking what NT are trying to accomplish visually is more challenging. Problem is if its as you say mostly down to artstyle how could any of us definitively say which is better? As the person I responded to originally claimed. To my eyes Senua looks more lifelike but is that graphically better? I don't know

Looking forward to playing both, Horizon looks more fun though.

 

[Negotiator101]

you call him a fanboy yet your the one trying to turn the thread into console wars. theres a thread for hellblade, if you want to talk about it.

No pal I responded to someone else who made that claim. Do yourself a favour and read the previous comments.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Not sure why these are even being compared since they are drastically different art styles, games, etc. Reminds me of when folks were comparing Forza Horizon to Ratchet and Clank...

Yeah it's absolutely daft. An individual could go and build a shitty game using Unreal's megascans and a lot of folk would call it better looking than Ratchet just because it's photorealistic

 

[remember_spinal]

Well sure It has issues but for me combat is most important so I can forgive other problems it has. (Next important would be traversal, exploration, then story and lore together).

I truly feel it was in a class of its own 3rd person combat wise, was very innovative and has since made other very good 3rd person shooters stale in comparison say like the last of us.

I feel its perhaps not appreciated as much for this as it should and every time someone compares it to far cry I want to expode lol.

It’s def far above an Ubisoft game even though it shares some of the big open world problems. Same with Tsushima.

These games do enough new and unique things to distance them from that formulaic line of game design, and the next iterations will separate them even more. A lot of times people will just call something an Ubisoft game to try and downplay it and if they like the open world call the game BoTW/Witcher when they want to praise it. It can be two different reviewers talking about the same things in the same game.

 

[Dr Bass]

I played the trailer for my girlfriend (not a gamer) of HB2 and then Horizon. She thought HB2 was a live action movie at the start. They are a generation apart graphically, Horizon just looks like a last generation game ( hence why it's on PS4) . HB2 could not be done to anything like this fidelity on a PS4. Anybody unless a PS fanboy will tell you exactly the same, but I'm talking to a fanboy so

WTF is this?

They are completely different styles, Horizon does not look "last gen" and HB2 also has the benefit of using UE5 which is a completely cutting edge engine with rendering techniques not available in any other commercial product as far as I am aware.

It has nothing to do with consoles or platforms, everyone is going to get the advantage of UE5 and HB2 would run just fine on a PS5 as well.

And that doesn't even describe the fact people usually play games for fun. Are you playing for fun or some kind of weird living-vicariously-through-real-time-graphics-performance thing?

Why are you saying this stuff in a Horizon thread?

 

[remember_spinal]

The outfits in HZD were good, but the stuff in this trailer looks off the chart (the red one in particular is really cool). I hope we get a transmog feature.



That. . .is unfortunate. I thought there was at least two weeks between the two. Looking up dates online it looks like a lot of people just got the hell out of the way from these two games.

I really wish they would move HFW back a few days or move Elden Ring up a few days. They aren’t gonna do each other any favors competing, I’m sure sony has to realize that also since they make money from Elden Ring also

 

[TheGodfather07]

No pal I responded to someone else who made that claim. Do yourself a favour and read the previous comments.

do yourself a favour and get out of the thread if your gonna post console warrior bullshit. its not difficult to know your intentions.

 

[Mod of War]

This- get back on topic.

One more time.

 

[GymWolf]

I'm very happy about how much more like Breath of The WIld this games looks, it's a big improvement.

If they can copy only the good things, sure why not.

 

[Woggleman]

The one thing I do hope is that the bosses are a bit better. Fighting a deathbringer as the final boss was a little anti-climactic. The final boss should be a Horus or a metal devil which are one of those huge spider looking things that blend in with the environment. It should be huge in scale to the point where Aloy has to use all the tools she acquired during the game to defeat it.

 

[remember_spinal]

BoTW is known for its exploration, so yes…copy all of that

 

[GymWolf]

Her peach fuzz slightly bends when insects land on her face. Incredible.

I'm sorry what?

 

[remember_spinal]

The one thing I do hope is that the bosses are a bit better. Fighting a deathbringer as the final boss was a little anti-climactic. The final boss should be a Horus or a metal devil which are one of those huge spider looking things that blend in with the environment. It should be huge in scale to the point where Aloy has to use all the tools she acquired during the game to defeat it.

I assume this might have been a time and/or budget thing like what happened with GoW. Cory Barlog said they just didn’t have the time to put bigger boss battles in the game, it takes months to design a boss encounter and they were already running out of time with the game.

I fully expect both games next year to have epic scale boss battles. Especially if that giant sized cobra is any indicator

 

[GymWolf]

Well sure It has issues but for me combat is most important so I can forgive other problems it has. (Next important would be traversal, exploration, then story and lore together).

I truly feel it was in a class of its own 3rd person combat wise, was very innovative and has since made other very good 3rd person shooters stale in comparison say like the last of us.

I feel its perhaps not appreciated as much for this as it should and every time someone compares it to far cry I want to expode lol.

I loved the combat in horizon but tlou2 is just a different type of tps, much more slow and realistic, with more weight in the movements.

Also human combat in horizon is trash compared to tlou2, both ranged and melee.

Horizon bow hit reactions\death animations\ragdoll on humans must be the worse i ever seen in the past gen in any triple A game, it get beated by a ps3 game



Incredible if we consider that guerrilla made killzone 2.


And from the footage of the sequel it looks like they are still using those fucking pre-canned death animations with no ragdoll, hopefully i'm wrong.

 

[TheGodfather07]

BoTW is known for its exploration, so yes…copy all of that

i want alot of interesting and different things to discover. make it rewarding too. zelda had the right idea but it was mainly just shrines. i want interesting deep side quests that you can get invested into. witcher 3 is probably the best example of that. a mix of zelda/witcher/horizon would be a phenomenal game.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

i want alot of interesting and different things to discover. make it rewarding too. zelda had the right idea but it was mainly just shrines. i want interesting deep side quests that you can get invested into. witcher 3 is probably the best example of that. a mix of zelda/witcher/horizon would be a phenomenal game.

I've got big expectations for a witcher experience after frozen wilds. The writing, characters, side quests and voice acting were so much better than the base game.

 

[DForce]

Neither game looks "better" than the other. They are stylistically different games, one is vibrant and colorful, the other is dark and gritty, one is open-world while the other is extremely linear. You make certain trade-offs with these.

Which character is more detailed you really can't say until you look at the underlying geometry. In the first game, Senua highest LOD was made of 125K triangles, Elena Fisher in Uncharted 4 was made of 139K triangles, Alloy's hair alone is 100K triangles and the thunderjaw is 500K triangles. What also plays a role in how good a character looks is lighting that is why Alloy in forbidden west now has a rim light following her.

That wasn't the point I was making.

Better looking is merely subjective, but the belief that the model is significantly or a generation ahead is completely false. Both character models might have around the same amount of polygons for the in-game and cutscene models (excluding hair and clothing) but the attention to detail can be different. If I see hair follicles on her skin and her eyebrows, then that's small details that only adds depth to the character.

The point is, I don't see the generation leap or anything significant like people are claiming.

 

[Markio128]

I've got big expectations for a witcher experience after frozen wilds. The writing, characters, side quests and voice acting were so much better than the base game.

Confession - I got the plat for Horizon ZD, but never really got far into Frozen Wilds. I don’t even know why. I’m going to make it a new year resolution to play the whole thing before FW is released,

 

[TheGodfather07]

I've got big expectations for a witcher experience after frozen wilds. The writing, characters, side quests and voice acting were so much better than the base game.

really? cause i never played the expansion. dont think i'll get round to it. too many games in backlog.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

really? cause i never played the expansion. dont think i'll get round to it. too many games in backlog.

I definitley recommend it. It's honestly a night and day difference in quality. The characters also arent static when they deliver their lines like in the original. There's actually emotion to it

 

[Woggleman]

The Frozen wilds is one the best SP DLCs I have played and the new weapons are awesome.

 

[Tripolygon]

The point is, I don't see the generation leap or anything significant like people are claiming.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I some worth agree with you. There is no generational leap between both characters, they are both equally detailed but the details are distributed in different ways. I don't see a generational jump in terms of character geometry, I think most of the leap comes in the shading quality and character lighting and animation. I really like the rim lighting used on Aloy while some might not like it as it makes her stand out.

 

[TheGodfather07]

I definitley recommend it. It's honestly a night and day difference in quality. The characters also arent static when they deliver their lines like in the original. There's actually emotion to it

from what we've seen of forbidden west so far, they have improved it massively. aloy and other characters have so much more emotion. thats probably one of the biggest leaps we will see for the coming gen. the ability to convey the emotions on the characters faces more realistically. imagine Guerrilla's next game on PS5 only.

 

[Woggleman]

I think the reason the death animations are not as good as TLOU2 is because they are trying to go for a T rating. If they get too gory it would be an M.

 

[The artful mincer]

I loved the combat in horizon but tlou2 is just a different type of tps, much more slow and realistic, with more weight in the movements.

Also human combat in horizon is trash compared to tlou2, both ranged and melee.

Horizon bow hit reactions\death animations\ragdoll on humans must be the worse i ever seen in the past gen in any triple A game, it get beated by a ps3 game



Incredible if we consider that guerrilla made killzone 2.


And from the footage of the sequel it looks like they are still using those fucking pre-canned death animations with no ragdoll, hopefully i'm wrong.

When I say best combat I always mean the dinobots the human combat doesn't even register in my brain I honestly forgot it exists sometimes.

Realistic ragdolls would be cool on the machines as long they maintain a sense of weight. It's gonna look really stupid if you can kick thunderjaws around like in dark souls.

I was so underwhelmed by the last of us part 2. Last of us was amazing in 2013 but in 2020 I found part 2 seriously lacking. Horizon and maybe MGS5 contributed to that. Although honestly I am just sick of human enemies. I feel I am making the same choices again and again in these type of games and they are no longer interesting.

It does have incredibly satisfying hit reactions though. I think RE2 remake is the current gold standard.

The biggest compliment I can give is it's a better controlling, more polished, more brutal MGS5. Although less deep and complex

 

[MasterCornholio]

My sentiments.

Not to offend Hellblade fans but I'm not posting in this thread to discuss that game. Not only that but its sad to see Hellblade get dragged into console warring. While I'm not personally interested in the game I know the developers are a good team and are passionate about it. Surely they wouldn't want it to be associated with console warring.

I'm sorry that I posted this but I had to let this out.

On topic: Really looking forward to HFW. They do seem to be doing a good job upgrading the visuals. And not only that but the world itself seems to be getting a pretty big upgrade as well. I really can't wait to explore all the environments. Liked the first game but I hope they do a better job with the settlements and the side quests. In my opinion it's the area that they really needed to work on.

 

[GymWolf]

When I say best combat I always mean the dinobots the human combat doesn't even register in my brain I honestly forgot it exists sometimes.

Realistic ragdolls would be cool on the machines as long they maintain a sense of weight. It's gonna look really stupid if you can kick thunderjaws around like in dark souls.

I was so underwhelmed by the last of us part 2. Last of us was amazing in 2013 but in 2020 I found part 2 seriously lacking. Horizon and maybe MGS5 contributed to that. Although honestly I am just sick of human enemies. I feel I am making the same choices again and again in these type of games and they are no longer interesting.

It does have incredibly satisfying hit reactions though. I think RE2 remake is the current gold standard.

The biggest compliment I can give is it's a better controlling, more polished, more brutal MGS5. Although less deep and complex

I don't particularly like re2 remake gunplay except for when you shot off arms and legs...

I think tlou2 and rdr2 have way better dynamic death\ragdoll.

I don't particularly want ragdoll on dinobots because as you say, it could look a bit silly if it is not finely tuned with the right weight etc., but if the alternative are bodies that glue on the terrain and pre-canned death animations i don't know what is worse.
In one of the new gifs she hits a dinobot with a strong melee attack and the fucker fall down in the opposite direction of the hit because the pre-canned animation start without keeping into account the direction of the final hit, i know that it looks good and somehow realistic, but after the 10th times with the same exact animaton, you are gonna scream for a fucking variation or something more dynamic.(when she hit the other dino with an arrow you can see almost the same death animation)


I'm well aware that most people are perfectly ok with this type of animations (tsushima is the same), but i just fucking hate it because its literally the safest but worse route devs can take.

Tlou2 and halo infinite\destiny 2 are not considered some of the most satisfying shooter because they have pre-canned death animations and no ragdoll, there is a reason why they feel SO punchy and visceral, there is a reason why max payne 3 is considered by many the best tps of 2 gens ago, i think i made my point.

 

[remember_spinal]

I fully intended on sitting down and playing Frozen Wilds this year. I said as soon as they released a 60fps patch it was on….and then i find out my save didn’t carry over from the cloud. I don’t have time to start all over again, I already did it this year for Tsushima before the HZD patch came out. I didn’t have another 30+ hour open world game in me.

I ended up watching a lets plays of Frozen Wilds and yeah, the animations and delivery of the NPC’s are FAR better. They improved a lot with that dlc…which is why I’m not super worried about it here.

Hopefully nothing as bad as Bram ever again

 

[Woggleman]

The first one still had some great characters like Sylens, Errand and that woman who you meet at the Lodge.

 

[Putonahappyface]

They are teasing flying mounts?...

I could be wrong and I hope I am wrong, but hasn't it been confirmed by Guerrilla Games that Aloy won't be flying around on any mechanical Pterodactyl?

 

[remember_spinal]

I could be wrong and I hope I am wrong, but hasn't it been confirmed by Guerrilla Games that Aloy won't be flying around on any mechanical Pterodactyl?

They said they can’t talk about it.

I hope if they are in teh game its toward the very end or in a set piece so it doesn’t trivialize exploration.

 

[Woggleman]

There should be multiple endings and one of them is a really dark option where Aloy can travel back in time and kill Ted Faro. The only catch is that this will prevent the machine from every destroying the world but it will also erase Aloy and her whole world from existence. Humanity would continue on and things would be as advanced as you would expect. The other option is that she can save the world she inhabits. The ending would show a history program mentioning that tech mogul Ted Faro was murdered by a mysterious red head woman who was never heard from again.

 

[Putonahappyface]

They said they can’t talk about it.

I hope if they are in teh game its toward the very end or in a set piece so it doesn’t trivialize exploration.

If they do incorporate a flying mechanic, I hope it isn't at the end of the game as that'll annoy me greatly.

 

[The artful mincer]

I don't particularly like re2 remake gunplay except for when you shot off arms and legs...

I think tlou2 and rdr2 have way better dynamic death\ragdoll.

I don't particularly want ragdoll on dinobots because as you say, it could look a bit silly if it is not finely tuned with the right weight etc., but if the alternative are bodies that glue on the terrain and pre-canned death animations i don't know what is worse.
In one of the new gifs she hits a dinobot with a strong melee attack and the fucker fall down in the opposite direction of the hit because the pre-canned animation start without keeping into account the direction of the final hit, i know that it looks good and somehow realistic, but after the 10th times with the same exact animaton, you are gonna scream for a fucking variation or something more dynamic.(when she hit the other dino with an arrow you can see almost the same death animation)


I'm well aware that most people are perfectly ok with this type of animations (tsushima is the same), but i just fucking hate it because its literally the safest but worse route devs can take.

Tlou2 and halo infinite\destiny 2 are not considered some of the most satisfying shooter because they have pre-canned death animations and no ragdoll, there is a reason why they feel SO punchy and visceral, there is a reason why max payne 3 is considered by many the best tps of 2 gens ago, i think i made my point.

I totally get what you mean regarding satisfying hit reactions and Death animations. I used to find it really important in the ps3 generation. It still is important although its mattered to me less over the years.

I think in zero dawn the hit reactions are satisfying until they die. It always satisfying to heat weak points and blow chunks off the robots but the canned death animations do suck.

I am surprised your not a fan of RE2 hit reactions and bullet damage. What don't you like about it?

 

[GymWolf]

I totally get what you mean regarding satisfying hit reactions and Death animations. I used to find it really important in the ps3 generation. It still is important although its mattered to me less over the years.

I think in zero dawn the hit reactions are satisfying until they die. It always satisfying to heat weak points and blow chunks off the robots but the canned death animations do suck.

I am surprised your not a fan of RE2 hit reactions and bullet damage. What don't you like about it?

Lol exactly, hitting weak spot is very satisfying, at least they got that right.

I like the bullet damage and cutting limbs, the gore system etc. in re2 remake.
But if i remember well they were a bit wooden when they fall down and kinda bad\uneven ragdoll.

But it is one of the few japanese game that get most of the gunplay right, i just like how some western game like rdr2 or tlou2 have more weight\natural movements\ragdoll when enemies die.
Dying light is another game that i particularly like, drop kicks are super satisfying because of that.

It's a matter of splitting an hair in 2, re2 is great most of the times, i just like how dynamic and more varied are the deaths in other games, i'm pretty anal when it comes to these things

 

[GymWolf]

I fully intended on sitting down and playing Frozen Wilds this year. I said as soon as they released a 60fps patch it was on….and then i find out my save didn’t carry over from the cloud. I don’t have time to start all over again, I already did it this year for Tsushima before the HZD patch came out. I didn’t have another 30+ hour open world game in me.

I ended up watching a lets plays of Frozen Wilds and yeah, the animations and delivery of the NPC’s are FAR better. They improved a lot with that dlc…which is why I’m not super worried about it here.

Hopefully nothing as bad as Bram ever again

After the dlc, digital acting during chit-chat with npcs was literally the last of my concerns for the sequel.

And they probably improved even more since the dlc.

 

[remember_spinal]

 

[Markio128]

 

[remember_spinal]

Cant wait to see the file size on ps4

 

[Markio128]

Cant wait to see the file size on ps4

Maybe the lower quality textures will keep it similar to PS5?