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The Rise, Fall, Death, and Rebirth of the Immersive Sim.

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman


Immersive sims are some of the best video game out there: System Shock, Bioshock, Thief, Dishonored, and a ton of others like “best PC game of all time” Deus Ex. Immersive sims come from a small family of game developers, most of which stemmed from Origin Systems or Looking Glass/Irrational games under the direction of gaming icons such as Warren Spector, Ken Levine, and Raphael Colontiano. Nearly all subsequent studios can trace their staff back to these studios and creators which is absolutely surreal.

Despite being a category of games that have a penchant for sweeping game awards shows and being nothing less than Iconic (we are still making Deus Ex memes nearly 20 years since it came out, aren’t we?) the immersive sim has had some rough patches and creating them is a long, hard process that can eat studios alive. Just look at what happened to poor Troika Games when they made Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines. Most studios that make immersive sims tend to fold on themselves but the devs that make them always get back together to make more great games.

So what will become of Immersive Sims and the future of great games? Well, while the last few years haven’t been kind with the Deus Ex sequel cancelled, the system shock reboot rebooted, and the promising Atomic Heart being locked in turmoil, the future is full of hope. Within the next couple years we’re getting Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2, System Shock 3, Bioshock 3 (or is it Bioshock 4? Game series naming conventions can get weird), and whatever the heck Ken Levine has been working on for the last 6 years. The only way for us to know is to stay tune, and play the games.



The History Of Immersive Sims | Part One

Immersive Sims are a special breed of video game that tries to simulate life or a profession in unique and engaging ways. In this two-part essay, I will be exploring the history of this ever-evolving genre of games.



The History Of Immersive Sims | Part Two | Arkane Studios
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!

Looks like nooblets have arrived to spew ignorant trolling, "it's just games with many cut scenes", lmao, that's basically the opposite of what these games strive for, being system and gameplay driven more than anything you childish bozos (edit: yes, mostly Slime's deleted posts, but not only them).​
 
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diffusionx

Gold Member
Another one of those annoying buzzwords. It's like "Metroidvania", it means literally nothing.

This is design by checkbox.
Instead of encouraging game designers to make muh "metroidvanias" or muh "immursive sims", ask them to use their brains to make something original and fun for a change.

Or just call those "First Person RPGs" and be done with it.
I would never demand more immersive sims because it is outside the reach of virtually every dev and they shouldn’t try.
 

Wildebeest

Member
Another one of those annoying buzzwords. It's like "Metroidvania", it means literally nothing.

This is design by checkbox.
Instead of encouraging game designers to make muh "metroidvanias" or muh "immursive sims", ask them to use their brains to make something original and fun for a change.

Or just call those "First Person RPGs" and be done with it.
It isn't like Metroidvania at all. The term was invented by Doug Church, a programmer on Ultima Underworld, to describe what they were trying to do. People don't call them Ultima-Underworld-likes because the term took off internally and found its way out.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
It isn't like Metroidvania at all. The term was invented by Doug Church, a programmer on Ultima Underworld, to describe what they were trying to do. People don't call them Ultima-Underworld-likes because the term took off internally and found its way out.
I loved UU games. Among my most fav PC games of all time (although I got stuck in UU 1!).

UU wasnt the first to do storytelling, first person, or have interactive items like making popcorn or lighting a lamp. But it came at the right time where tech was getting into 3D so it was right there with Doom, although both games took different stances to 3D gameplay.

I'd say the biggest innovations in UU was the 3D levels which were much more complex than Doom's.

If anything, I'd say Doom is more immersive sim than UU. It was a frantic fast paced FPS with tons of shots being slung at you and you had to act fast. At that time, PC games were still in slow/turned based gaming and good twitch gaming like a console or arcade machine were slim. UU had very slow paced real time gaming with the dumbest AI ever. Walk into a room of Headless, and then run backwards a room or two and the enemies suddenly have no idea where you are as they seemed to have that canned radius effect of chasing gamers. Same goes for Gazers. In one of the games, you run into one in this circular kind of room with some loot bags. If you run to the room, it attacks. If you run out of the room, it stays there.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
You mean first person lite RPGs?
The game also had the most simple hack and slash attacks ever.

Each weapon had thrust, slash and chop.

The best attack to use was thrust (like youre a fencer) because it did good damage and if you did it fast enough combined with moving your character backwards, the enemy's reaction attacks wouldnt hit you as you were out of range. Enemy's had such abysmal movement and reaction times it's like your character was The Flash and they were always stuck in molasses. I beat UU2 using a sword doing thrust attacks all game and had no problem.
 
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I_D

Member
Based on the comments in this thread, it would seem that "immersive sim" needs a bit of clarification.

Nevertheless...
Personally, this is my favorite genre.
Deus Ex, System Shock, Bioshock, Dishonored, Thief, Hitman, Tarkov, Star Citizen, Dark Souls, etc.... They're all within my favorite genre.
The feeling of discovering a new ability, or coming up with some weird solution, or finding a glitch, or etc. is completely unmatched in other genres. There really is nothing else out there like immersive-sims.

Personally, I can honestly say that if a game isn't an immersive-sim, I probably don't like it.
If the game doesn't have some sort of hidden feature, or if the tutorial isn't teaching you in real-time, it's probably not a well-designed experience; and instead relies on basic gaming conventions.
Admittedly, that makes my list of enjoyable-games fairly small.
Nonetheless, this genre is the way games are meant to be played.

Everything else just feels like an extended cutscene. Console-friendly games are especially bad at this.
Horizon, Tomb Raider, Sunset Overdrive, Uncharted, Gears of War, Halo, Spiderman, Assassin's Creed, etc. are all extremely similar to each other, in terms of gameplay and mission structure. They all use the same tropes, basically.

Immersive sims are not only the primary way to escape console-itis games, but are such a massive jump in quality above those types of games that it feels like it's not even an us-vs.-them dynamic.
It's more like a "real game" versus "casual game" dynamic.
And I definitely am not a fan of "real game" conversations, but it is what it is. There's just such a gigantic jump in quality that it feels unfair to compare 'popular' games to those 'actual' games.

And, what's even weirder, is that there is even a level of quality within those "casual" games.
Obviously Angry Birds is more user-friendly (aka "casual") than most games.
And yet, it's not even in the same caliber as other console games.

Obviously Call of Duty is a user-friendly game.
But it's far more simple than other user-friendly games, such as Battlefield.

Obviously Fortnite is a user-friendly game.
But it's quite a bit more simple than other user-friendly games, such as Team Fortress.

Obviously Far Cry 12 (or whatever we're on, nowadays) is a user-friendly game.
But it's quite a bit more user-friendly than other user-friendly games, such as Minecraft.

But immersive-sims are not user-friendly at all.
They're the only genre left, basically, that doesn't hold the player's hand.
They really are a lost genre, basically. And it's a damn shame that this is the case.

And that's not to say that user-friendliness is a bad thing. There are a multitude of reasons why those games exist. And they make a ton of money, so the reasons are pretty darn self-evident.
And immersive sims make hardly any money at all, so it's no wonder why they're very-rarely made.

Nonetheless, games like Deus Ex are so incredibly above other games, even those in the same genre, that it really does feel like comparing Kubrick against Michael Bay. Both options have their levels of enjoyment, but one is quite clearly superior to the other.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Here's your clearly superior "immursive sim" bro.

Also, soccer bad because not immursive sim enough.
Chess bad too because not immursive sim enough.

"Immursive sims" attempt to do everything, but excel at nothing. Combat usually sucks in those games.

Finally, if Thief and Dark Souls are considered "immursive sims" than that just shows how loose the terminology is, to the point of people being able to change it's meaning to fit whatever criteria they want.

But since it's a buzzword nobody knows what it means, just that it's supposed to be used when reffering to clones of Deus Ex or System Shock.
The term would have a million definitions. I dont think most gamers have even heard of the term before. I didn't until this thread. But it seems like the general consensus is a game that is slow paced, SP and has enough narrative in it.

Gamer #1 definition
- turn based hex games with tons of management and detail is immersive sim

Gamer #2 definition
- real time gameplay is immersive sim because actually playing the game with controls is better than the AI controlling your units for you

Gamer #3 definition
- create your own character is immersive sim because I can make the character like me so I'm in the game

Gamer #4 definition
- canned characters are more immersive because the game maker can craft a story totally based on the character instead of your "Fighter named Brad"

My defnition
- I'd classify Aerobiz more immersive sim than any of those action/adventure games listed in this thread as it dealt with money, real cities, buying airport hubs, setting seat prices and real planes
 
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Wildebeest

Member
It's still a buzzword.
Zelda BotW is as "immursive" and "sim" as those games, but nobody calls it so.

Developers should just get rid of meme buzzwords from their marketing and focus on making a good game without a checklist.
OK. Terms like "Immersive", "Visceral", and "Cinematic" are all game marketing buzzwords, but they still all mean something. There is a risk that you become so tired and jaded by the industry BS that you stop using your brain. Cinematic means that you can expect a lot of horrible graphics effects like chromatic aberration and there will be lots of cutscenes, or at least there are many times when the there are very bad in game "dramatic" scenes in game which you have to endure. Visceral means that there is lots of blood and guts, and they try to make it sound and look like characters are putting in real effort and are suffering and so on. Whatever.

To say a game is a real-time simulation is just technical computer science terminology. Immersion is a term borrowed from early VR research. What do you want? You want people to say that all computer software is in the genre "magical pixie sprites" and cannot be described using human words, only magical elf words? To say what makes Zelda different to Deus Ex in design in terms of immersion and simulation is to use those words, take them seriously, and go into a deep dive of how they work practically.
 

TwinB242

Member
Im actually in the middle of playing through Prey for the first time and I can't believe how good it is. Its a shame that it seemed to fly under the radar at release and wasn't much of a success sales wise.
 
Im actually in the middle of playing through Prey for the first time and I can't believe how good it is. Its a shame that it seemed to fly under the radar at release and wasn't much of a success sales wise.

It had laggy PS4 controls, if I remember. That didn't do it any favours.
Bethesda's PR machine did very little in the way of marketing, if I recall.
It confused/irritated some with the name. Mostly because of Bethesda's previous corporate skullduggery.

However, it's a shame it got blighted by those - it's a really great game.
 

Wildebeest

Member
I know labeling and categorizing things is something natural and useful (e.g. fruits, vegetables, animals, insects), but most of those examples have technical definitions that are accepted by all.
Video games lack that technical definition, or don't have one that is commonly accepted. Thus, everyone has a term for something they like and enjoy, but the term usually is malformed and most of the time doesn't help in discussions.
It doesn't matter if technical terms are "universally accepted" as nothing is so universal. Tomatoes are fruit, but you do not put them in fruit salad, and so on. The fact that you do not have a deep understanding of what immersion could mean in game design to the point where you can break the term down into several categories of immersion and give practical examples does not make you an old wise head who has mastered the secret code of calling out BS when you see it.
 

Beechos

Member
Arcane studios got this genre on lock. Hopefully they chnage the art direction after their next game from cartoony to being more realistic. I feel alot of people dont give their games a chance because of their graphics/art direction. Screenshots/videos dont do their games justice.
 
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kiphalfton

Member
I played Prey (the new one) and really enjoyed it. Seems like the only other “immersive sim” besides that I unknowingly played was Bioshock. I have all the Deus Ex games AFAIK, Dishonored, Thief, and probably a couple of the other games in some of these lists, but never touched them (thanks to steam mega bundle sales long ago).
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I Looked up upcoming (not already in early access like Gloomwood) imm sims I know of for another reply so here they are: Peripeteia, Core Decay, Neet, Selaco, DataJack 2020, Judas, Safe Not Safe, Final Defect, Neverlooted Dungeon, The Muller-Powell Principle, Sorceress, Retrospace, Heartrender, Serpens, Streets of Rogue 2, Psycho Patrol R, Monomyth, Corpus Edax, Memories of a Spy, Lonely Space, Imprisoned Hyperion 2, ETOS, Skin Deep, Spectra, Athanasia. Most have a Steam page already. Not in any particular order so keep browsing even if some of those don't look so great to you.

So yeah, there's a lot more than I thought (and I'm probably missing more, plus there are several recently released as well as currently in early access/demo stage games) and it definitely counts as a revival. I also found another cool pair after making the list, just now, Sonar Shock & Parkside.

I like Sonar Shock is taking the original System Shock's clunky cursor interface and giving it more purpose like the manual weapon reloading & operations shown there.​
 
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hyperbertha

Member
I loved UU games. Among my most fav PC games of all time (although I got stuck in UU 1!).



I'd say the biggest innovations in UU was the 3D levels which were much more complex than Doom's.

If anything, I'd say Doom is more immersive sim than UU. It was a frantic fast paced FPS with tons of shots being slung at you and you had to act fast. At that time, PC
Oh my god just stop. This is embarassing.
 

hyperbertha

Member
Im actually in the middle of playing through Prey for the first time and I can't believe how good it is. Its a shame that it seemed to fly under the radar at release and wasn't much of a success sales wise.
It's a unique immersive sim in that it's also a metroidvania. The only immsim I know with that feat.
Check out amnesia the bunker. An actual new immsim.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I'd never heard of the term Immersive Sim ever until this thread.

Sounds to me a fancy way of saying SP game with lots of cut scenes.
Literally the opposite of what it is. The main thing is that exposition is done within the game while the player has control of the character rather than through cut-scenes and most if it is possible to completely bypass or ignore if you want - either audio logs, movies playing on a screen, travel from location to location (the opening diving bell part of bioshock), the environment, incidental NPC's, phone or radio calls etc etc. The other pre-requisite is generally considered to be light RPG elements, coupled with a freedom to tackle enemies etc in different ways often using those abilities.
First person is generally considered necessary and a cold open is often a trademark.
 

hyperbertha

Member
Literally the opposite of what it is. The main thing is that exposition is done within the game while the player has control of the character rather than through cut-scenes and most if it is possible to completely bypass or ignore if you want - either audio logs, movies playing on a screen, travel from location to location (the opening diving bell part of bioshock), the environment, incidental NPC's, phone or radio calls etc etc. The other pre-requisite is generally considered to be light RPG elements, coupled with a freedom to tackle enemies etc in different ways often using those abilities.
First person is generally considered necessary and a cold open is often a trademark.
First person isn't necessary. An isometric game by ex arkane devs is immsim. Forgot the name. Baldur's gate 3 likely is. The important thing is being able to do practically everything the character would and should be able to do in game if the game was real, hence simulator.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
First person isn't necessary. An isometric game by ex arkane devs is immsim. Forgot the name. Baldur's gate 3 likely is. The important thing is being able to do practically everything the character would and should be able to do in game if the game was real, hence simulator.
The immersive part usually means first person though. Like I said it isn't absolutely a requirement but it almost is.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
nice necro bump dumdum
It was my post before his that bumped the thread, dumdum (with things perfectly relevant to a still valid topic, stop derailing it, it's fun to remember the embarassing takes of people who should have their gamer cards revoked too, it's not like it's all so old it doesn't reflect their views/persons now).
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
The immersive part usually means first person though. Like I said it isn't absolutely a requirement but it almost is.
First person usually does make it easier to explore and manipulate items in the scenario, which is usually a staple of these sorts of game. But yeah, not really a requirement.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
To this day I still don’t fully understand what “immersive sim” means….but based on most people’s description, is Tears of Kingdom falls in the same category?
 

Krappadizzle

Gold Member
To this day I still don’t fully understand what “immersive sim” means….but based on most people’s description, is Tears of Kingdom falls in the same category?
It's a broad definition. Nothing set in stone, but generally, a game that has a bunch of systemic things in place that can happen because of the player or in spite of, allowing you to manipulate the situation/scenario in a variety of different ways typically encompassing gadgets/magic/environment.

More often done in first person such as: Deus Ex, Dishonored, Prey, Bioshock. But there are plenty of 3rd person examples like Weird West or as I would consider it, Baldur's Gate 3 or Tears of the Kingdom. RPG's and Immersive Sim genre have a lot of crossover and because the specific definition is so vague, it can kind of be applied to a lot of games.

I wouldn't really consider Witcher 3 an immersive sim, but I would Tears of the Kingdom simply because the environment/scenario(S) is much more static in Witcher 3 and isn't really influenced in any real way by the player.
 
Immersive sims killing studios is an unfair assessment, in my opinion. If you're a developer who wants to make an im sim, there's plenty of evidence that they have a limited appeal. Their fans, to include myself, are a fairly small subsection of gamers. I think that has been proven time and again and it shouldn't take much market research to confirm as much. Studios therefore need to budget themselves accordingly. If, let's say, a new Deus Ex came out and sold 2 million copies, and another studio is working on a whole new im sim not associated with a pre-existing IP, they should budget their game to bteak even at half a million copies sold or some such. To do anything else is just fiscal irresponsibility on the part of the studio.
 

bender

What time is it?
To this day I still don’t fully understand what “immersive sim” means….but based on most people’s description, is Tears of Kingdom falls in the same category?

If you can move a crate and that breaks the intended level design and negates the allocated stat points you agonized over before meticulously placing, you might be playing an immersive sim.
 

Krappadizzle

Gold Member
The AA space is definitely holding down the genre, there's a lot of great examples one could check out over on r/immersivesim I've been keeping tabs on it for a while, even was invited to check out a few games from indie devs on there. But I think we'll see some great surprises in the next year or two from indies and hopefully Arkane gets another shot at Dishonored or Prey.
 

YuLY

Member
Rebirth ? lol its dead. The last great period was Mankind Divided + Prey, so 8-7 years ago. Miss me with those pixelated basement budget shit like Core Decay.
 

Krappadizzle

Gold Member
Is that game immersive sim? It’s been long time since I played that game but I dont remember the game having any systemic mechanics working together.
I feel like it fits in the genre, especially with the roaming big daddies and how you have a lot of player agency to get through a scenario. That said, it'd probably be better to think of Bioshock as ImmersiveSim-Lite, not nearly on the level of Deus Ex or Prey. I think the argument could be made relatively convincingly that it isn't an immersive sim, but I still tend to associate it with the genre.
 

Red5

Member
Rebirth ? lol its dead. The last great period was Mankind Divided + Prey, so 8-7 years ago. Miss me with those pixelated basement budget shit like Core Decay.

System Shock Remake is great and certainly not a pixelated basement budget shit.
 

Red5

Member
To this day I still don’t fully understand what “immersive sim” means….but based on most people’s description, is Tears of Kingdom falls in the same category?

Immersive sims are generally more interactive with more agency given to players on how they approach the game environment, plot, stats etc...

Call of Duty, Uncharted are cinematically driven experiences, with checkpoints and corridors, Deus Ex, Thief, System Shock are the complete opposite and what an immersive sim is supposed to be, complete freedom in how you approach a level, map and complete the objectives and approach the story.

Naturally the immersive sim genre features translates easily into open world RPG, I guess you have to play Deus Ex or Thief for example to get a feel to what an immersive sim is.
 

samoilaaa

Member
To this day I still don’t fully understand what “immersive sim” means….but based on most people’s description, is Tears of Kingdom falls in the same category?
let say your objective is to enter a building and steal a document , you are given multiple choices on how to reach the location of the document , by force , stealth , hacking , thats what an immersive sim is

the ability to achieve a goal however you want , you are not forced , total freedom

for example in prey you can use a glue gun to trap enemies and kill them , some people used that glue gun to create a ladder to reach certain height points
 
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