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Sony announces PlayStation VR2 and Sense Controllers at CES

Quest 2 has crappy display.

PSVR2 wins in every category:
OLED vs LCD (blacks, haloing)
Higher resolution
Much wider FOV
Foviated rendering
Hardware adjustable IPD
Haptics/ergonomics/controllers...

Quest is not even close to PSVR2
It's not out yet, and has no price or release date.

Quest 3 might be out by the time it lands :messenger_tears_of_joy: Not defending Quest 2 though, because like I said in my other post, I returned it within 24 hours. Just not really fair to compare specs in such a negative way (or claim a 'win') when one is a year old product and the other is a year in the future product. That said, fuck Facebook/Meta.
 

Dream-Knife

Banned
good efficient compression and a great hardware decoder. Quest 2 is amazing using airlink, it’s a true shame Sony choose to go this route. I couldn’t play games like Half Life Alyx tethered to a cord. I hope a wireless version sees light some day
I played with the cord, it was super annoying. Excusable for a first gen device, but my next device will be wireless.

Crazy to see all the VR hype though. A year ago everyone was saying VR was dead, then over night everyone is excited. VR is the future for experiences, and it seems indies are paving the way.
 

hlm666

Member
Some of the best VR games are only on PSVR as it is. The majority of bigger VR games will be on PSVR2, not on PCVR.
There are like a couple of really good games on all platforms (psvr/oculus/pc) and it's a pain in the ass. Oculus has a bit of an advantage with valve allowing oculus hardware to get the best of 2 worlds. People always just think HL Alyx is the only good thing on pc. If your into sims and cockpit games you have a whole lot of options to lose yourself in. I think there is a good chance this could get psvr2 ps5 update, and it could knock gt7 off the top step for best console vr sim. Yeh im pretty sure gt7 will have vr support, it's a pretty common thing in pc sims now and the genre is one of the easiest to implement.

 

Tripolygon

Banned
Cables are not going away. All highend VR will still be using cables. That’s not to say there won’t be stand alone VR HMD. With Wi-Fi 6E being implemented now we might start to see highend HMD that make use of that or something more proprietary. But cables will still be a thing.
 
James Sawyer Ford James Sawyer Ford What do you think? Looks like all the rumored specs were true and this thing is a monster.

It seems like an absolute BEAST

4k, OLED, Foveated Rendering, and Eye Tracking? Along with a great controller?

This will be nuts and MUCHHHH better than PSVR1.

Guessing $399 w/ controllers packed in.

CANNOT WAIT though. Hopefully Astro is a launch title along with Half Life Alyx. Glad to see Sony abandoning Vita and putting their smaller studios to work on the future with VR. Horizon is a BIG get for this.

I only have an Occulus Go and PS VR so this will be a massive step up
 

ABnormal

Member
Are there no pictures of the headset, or am I missing something? I mean, PSVR2 was already announced last year, so it’s kind of weird if there are still no pictures of the headset itself.

And why does Horizon VR look like a PS4 game? I’d hoped that foveated rendering would save enough performance that next gen VR games can look just as good as regular next gen games.
They are probably saving the headset form for the official unveiling with release date and price.

About VR Horizon, it is already graphically far better than ps4 Horizon, and it will run at 90 or even 120 native frames per second, at a 4k number of pixels for each frame. Don't you realize that PS5 Horizon, to have that level of detail, has to run at 30 frames at 4k? Can you imagine how much less detailed would be at 90 o 120 frames per second at 4k? That level of detail at such frame rate and resolution is impressive, and it's even in HDR, this time. Also, it's not even the best video quality we can get, so a direct feed one will further improve it.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
good efficient compression and a great hardware decoder. Quest 2 is amazing using airlink, it’s a true shame Sony choose to go this route. I couldn’t play games like Half Life Alyx tethered to a cord. I hope a wireless version sees light some day

Started Half Life Alyx last year with chord. Always fucking annoyed that it was getting in the way. Mid-way through the game, i hear about virtual desktop, i buy the app, play wirelessly, flawlessly. Then by the end of the game airlink was included.

I had a game changer mid-game. SO much better without cables. I bought the elite headstrap with battery, it actually feels more comfortable because the battery is shifting weight, and the hours i get now is more than i need for a VR gaming night.

Anyway, arguing Quest 2 is not for gaming...

Sure Jan GIF


Oculus studio has probably the most entertaining games out of even PCVR. It doesn’t look like an on-rail robotic Jurassic park ride. What a weird demo to showcase VR nowadays.
 

Tarkus98

Member
400 is steal for this specs.
Yep. $400 just seems too low for what we are getting. Especially considering the 1st iteration was $400 at start.
This one is packed with much more tech and included controllers.
If they get it out the door at four bills they are seriously taking a hit.
I’m thinking $499 and that still a good starter price for what you’re getting. Then in a year knock it down a hundred and get more fucking PS5’s out in the wild.
 

hlm666

Member
Cables are not going away. All highend VR will still be using cables. That’s not to say there won’t be stand alone VR HMD. With Wi-Fi 6E being implemented now we might start to see highend HMD that make use of that or something more proprietary. But cables will still be a thing.
I don't think oculus will make another wired device, and cambria could be pushing boundries like AI assisted foveated rendering and full body tracking.
 

ABnormal

Member
People said the same thing about the PS5. Hell, there were rumors of a $599 PS5, and yet Sony managed to release a digital SKU for $399. They will do the same here. Release the headset without controllers for $399 just to say they did. The main SKU will be $499.
They nailed every single hardware aspect that I hoped for (especially eye tracking for foveated rendering). Now the worse possible error that they could still make is selling a PSVR2 sku without controllers. That would force developers to develop the games with the minimum version in mind: regular controller. That would be the death of dedicated controls gameplay: it would only be used for optional gameplay aspects. But consoles, unlike PC (which has to keep in mind every possible configuration), have the chance to develop a gameplay for a fixed control system, and the more potentiality it has, the more complex and varied the gameplay can be.
If, for example, you want to develop a Dead Space like game in VR, where you can have gameplay parts where you pick objetcs with both hands, repairing, connecting, rotating, pulling, pushing, and so on, in a 3d space, you simply can't do it with a controller, and to develop a game with VR control from ground up, you have to be sure that every PSVR2 possessor has the controllers.
That's the last thing to be confirmed that can make or mar the potential of this gen VR. VR control essentially gives you the interaction with the space around you, with two points at the same time (both hands), in a way that no pad or mouse will never be able to even come close. Losing that chance would be a huge waste.
 

Gamerguy84

Member
OK logged off gaf but back on because I'm now too excited. Has me thinking when PS5 was announced and seemed like an eternity away I have two of those.

Rumors of manufacturing deals in place and set to begin plus GG pitting out this trailer makes me think summer, or just wildly hoping.

Those specs are ace. Sony already said they want full games and to move away from experiences which they had to do because of limitations of the hardware.

Now they have a few years of VR development under their belt and of course gaming expertise.

This looks badass and I'm sure they are going to have GT in VR.

VR2 is one of the things I've always said was hi priority for my PS5, the future is looking unbelievable.
 

kyliethicc

Member
Huh I'm surprised they went with PSVR2 for the name. Was sure they'd pick something worse lol. Nice.

Specs look great. Horizon VR we knew was coming. Makes sense, hopefully at launch.

Wonder when they'll show the headset.
 

Poppyseed

Member
I played with the cord, it was super annoying. Excusable for a first gen device, but my next device will be wireless.

Crazy to see all the VR hype though. A year ago everyone was saying VR was dead, then over night everyone is excited. VR is the future for experiences, and it seems indies are paving the way.
I absolutely love my Quest 2, and for me PSVR2 is a failure before it launches. The absolute best thing about the Quest 2 is I just grab it, throw it on my head, and it auto boots and is ready to go in half a second. No turning on a TV, worrying about cables, turning on a console etc.

Really disappointed that there’s no wireless option even for PSVR2. I’m a firm believer in wired connections for everything, but Half Life Alyx over AirLink rocked my world. I’ll never go back to wired anything to do with VR. Ever.
 
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Fredrik

Member
Awesome that Guerrilla is in on it! This is what PSVR lacked. Or what VR in general has lacked. AAA studios making games. No idea who Firesprite is and they their involvement is though. Hoping it’s a proper Guerrilla A-team title and no B-team working at the side. Looking good anyway! Just wish I had seen more of it. Is in on-rail or free-roaming? Full-size open world adventure or a shorter linear experience?
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
I hope the vibration on the headset can be turned off. I already find the idea of that thing buzzing on my face annoying. The only real life scenarios where my face buzzes is using my electric toothbrush, trimming my beard and going to the dentist and none of those are things I want to experience in VR.

That said, I really like the specs, especially the display resolution. It will be interesting to see how they price it. I see people saying $499 including the controllers but I can't help but feel like that's only going to fly with the hardcore PlayStation enthusiasts. If It also requires a console that costs a minimum of $399 that's going to be a tough mainstream sell in a world with decent standalone VR for $299. Does this thing do any onboard processing or is it all handled by the PS5 via the USB cable? If it's using the PS5 for compute and memory with display and telemetry running along the cable it's possible this could come in at a much more competitive price than $399-$499.
 

ZehDon

Gold Member
Sounds like a great piece of kit they've put together. Shame about the tether, but at least the headset and controllers are delivering the goods.

Interesting screen specs:
PSVR: 960x1080 per eye, 100 Degrees Horizontal FOV.
PSVR2: 2000 x 2040 per eye, 110 Degrees Horizontal FOV.
Quest 2: 1832x1920 per eye, 89 Degrees Horizontal FOV.

Using Pixels per Radian to understand visible screen clarity, this gives PSVR 10.3k PPR versus a whopping 37k PPR for PSVR2. So, the jump in clarity - my single biggest complaint with PSVR - is going to be pretty significant. In comparison, Quest 2 has 39.5k PPR - however, it has a slightly smaller FOV. So, PSVR2 is absolutely comparable to the Quest 2 in terms of display clarity.

PSVR2's eye tracking is also pretty interesting. If it's actually fast enough to enable eye-tracked foveated rendering - instead of the PSVR1's static implementation - it'll allow the PS5 to punch way above its weight in terms of fidelity and clarity. However, Ryan didn't specifically link it to Foveated Rendering, which I think he would have if they actually had it, because its the next clear step forward. So, I doubt it's fast enough to keep up with the 120hz display. Its a nice addition, but it's exactly that.

Everything else looks on par with the Quest 2, backed by the horse power of the PS5 instead of the bespoke mobile-adjacent chipset the Quest 2 has. Terrific stuff - can't wait to see it in action!
 

Fredrik

Member
I hope the vibration on the headset can be turned off. I already find the idea of that thing buzzing on my face annoying. The only real life scenarios where my face buzzes is using my electric toothbrush, trimming my beard and going to the dentist and none of those are things I want to experience in VR.
On point! 😂

But it’ll probably just be short bumps, not prolonged buzzing.

I still don’t see how it’ll add anything meaningful, might just pull you out or the immersion tbh since you’ll be reminded that you have this big thing strapped to your head.

In my experience anything that remind me of what my real-life scenario looks like when playing VR is a minus. Bumping into or even just nudging furniture, knocking the controllers into each other, seeing the VR barrier grid, feeling a cable, etc.
 
Ok. I'm jumping on board this time. I thought the PSVR1 was too cumbersome with the set-up. But I like the 1 cable set-up this time.

The specs says it has battery, so is there a possibility of wireless accessory in the future?
 

kyliethicc

Member
How about the ability to choose between wired or wireless? Why not both? Poor choice imo not having both.

Wireless has worked for me on the quest just fine but I can see wired being a nice option especially if you're playing more of a stationary game. I play golf/minigolf frequently on quest with some buddies and I can't imagine being wired for something like that.

But seriously, WHY NOT BOTH?!
They don't want to build a battery into the headset.
Cost.
Latency.
Etc.
 

ABnormal

Member
Sounds like a great piece of kit they've put together. Shame about the tether, but at least the headset and controllers are delivering the goods.

Interesting screen specs:
PSVR: 960x1080 per eye, 100 Degrees Horizontal FOV.
PSVR2: 2000 x 2040 per eye, 110 Degrees Horizontal FOV.
Quest 2: 1832x1920 per eye, 89 Degrees Horizontal FOV.

Using Pixels per Radian to understand visible screen clarity, this gives PSVR 10.3k PPR versus a whopping 37k PPR for PSVR2. So, the jump in clarity - my single biggest complaint with PSVR - is going to be pretty significant. In comparison, Quest 2 has 39.5k PPR - however, it has a slightly smaller FOV. So, PSVR2 is absolutely comparable to the Quest 2 in terms of display clarity.

PSVR2's eye tracking is also pretty interesting. If it's actually fast enough to enable eye-tracked foveated rendering - instead of the PSVR1's static implementation - it'll allow the PS5 to punch way above its weight in terms of fidelity and clarity. However, Ryan didn't specifically link it to Foveated Rendering, which I think he would have if they actually had it, because its the next clear step forward. So, I doubt it's fast enough to keep up with the 120hz display. Its a nice addition, but it's exactly that.

Everything else looks on par with the Quest 2, backed by the horse power of the PS5 instead of the bespoke mobile-adjacent chipset the Quest 2 has. Terrific stuff - can't wait to see it in action!
If PSVR2 will use the same sub pixel tech of psvr, it will have a significantly clearer and sharper image compared to Quest 2 (which still uses a common pixel form).

About foveated rendering, it's listed in the official blog page:

Visual Fidelity: For a high-fidelity visual experience, PS VR2 offers 4K HDR, 110-degree field of view, and foveated rendering. With an OLED display, players can expect a display resolution of 2000×2040 per eye and smooth frame rates of 90/120Hz.
 

DJ12

Member
Cannot wait for them to explain the foveated rendering, some people will be upset that the ps5 supports vrs after all, and it it's only meaningful usage scenario, eye tracking vr. They will actually know where to reduce details rather than just doing it everywhere and hoping you aren't looking.
 

CS Lurker

Member
I believe we'll see a wireless model in the future. The thing is that it will cost a lot more, because then you need not only a battery + wifi in the headset, you also need a specialized hardware to do all the image processing to calcule the positional tracking of both HMD and controllers (which would also do the calculation for the eye-tracking feed).

Also, because it's wireless, you now need a hardware to also do the decoding of the video you're receiving from the console.

So, making it wireless can really add significantly to the total cost.
 
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ZehDon

Gold Member
If PSVR2 will use the same sub pixel tech of psvr, it will have a significantly clearer and sharper image compared to Quest 2 (which still uses a common pixel form).
PSVR looked incredibly blurry, owing to its very low PPR counts. The PSVR's custom sub-pixel arrangement - including higher density toward the centre of the screen - prevents the screen-door effect, with only a minimal difference to the actual clarity of the rendered image.

About foveated rendering, it's listed in the official blog page:

Visual Fidelity: For a high-fidelity visual experience, PS VR2 offers 4K HDR, 110-degree field of view, and foveated rendering. With an OLED display, players can expect a display resolution of 2000×2040 per eye and smooth frame rates of 90/120Hz.
Cool. This means nothing. The PSVR has foveated rendering, done in software. The edges of the image are rendered at lower resolutions, with the centre of the image rendered at a higher resolution. What everyone is curious about is eye-tracked foveated rendering. This was the original definition of foveated rendering. This technique allows the image to render the precise point on the image your eyes are looking at a higher resolution, and the other areas at a lower resolution. This provides a good performance win, while ensuring every part of the image appears crystal clear to the player. If PSVR2 had this, Sony would be trumpeting it.
 
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Fredrik

Member
Everything else looks on par with the Quest 2, backed by the horse power of the PS5 instead of the bespoke mobile-adjacent chipset the Quest 2 has. Terrific stuff - can't wait to see it in action!
Not on par, way better.
But Quest 2 can be backed by whatever horse power your PC has so the power advantage for many of us won’t be felt.

The real killer feature is the games, if Sony could provide AAA games for PSVR2 it’ll be impossible for Oculus/Meta to compete even if you have a SLI 3090 rig streamed to Quest 2. The big PC devs are sleeping on VR unfortunately.

The upside for Quest 2 and PC VR in general is the mods. Old ass Skyrim in VR is meh out of the box but add HIGGS and VRIK mods and it’s awesome and feels like Halflife Alyx. I’m hoping Bethesda don’t completely drop VR just because MS bought them. I want Starfield in VR!
 

Tygeezy

Member
With Sony opening the doors to PC releases. I'm almost certain PSVR2 will be natively compatible with the PC.
I doubt it. I bet they are using a display port ult mode to achieve higher bandwidth. It was almost a thing on pc using virtual link, but it was only ever released on 20 series non super cards. Nvidia didn’t put in on 30 series cards and amd never released a card with usb c virtual link.

Unless Sony is using compression they are 100 % using this method to achieve greater bandwidth necessary for high resolution plus refresh rate.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Nice. Thank god it uses oled. Every damn headset swapped to lcd and it always looks like shit.
So specs look amazing. Hope it allows to use pulse 3d wirelessly still

About the horizon demo… I have a bad feeling of non stop fucking talking like in every vrr experience ugh
 

ABnormal

Member
PSVR looked incredibly blurry, owing to its very low PPR counts. The PSVR's custom sub-pixel arrangement - including higher density toward the centre of the screen - prevents the screen-door effect, with only a minimal difference to the actual clarity of the rendered image.


Cool. This means nothing. The PSVR has foveated rendering, done in software. The edges of the image are rendered at lower resolutions, with the centre of the image rendered at a higher resolution. What everyone is curious about is eye-tracked foveated rendering. This was the original definition of foveated rendering. This technique allows the image to render the precise point on the image your eyes are looking at a higher resolution, and the other areas at a lower resolution. This provides a good performance win, while ensuring every part of the image appears crystal clear to the player. If PSVR2 had this, Sony would be trumpeting it.
I didn't think it was necessary to state that PSVR2 will have an higher resolution. The point is that at the same resolution, the sub pixel setup of PSVR is clearer and sharper. It's old news and it's just the result of that tech. You can find it in every review at the time. The screen will be also an OLED, with HDR, which are both another level of quality, compared to what you can find now.

And about foveated rendering, a software thing doesn't even have sense. It has to be necessarily done accordingly to the direction of the gaze, and PSVR2 head director said that it's the feature that considers the most important. Putting a fast IR eye tracker just to browse menus is pointless as well.
 
I expect it to be 400 to keep it competitive. But imagine if they actually found a way to price it at 300? They could continue selling ps5’s well past mid gen with it
 
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ZehDon

Gold Member
I didn't think it was necessary to state that PSVR2 will have an higher resolution. The point is that at the same resolution, the sub pixel setup of PSVR is clearer and sharper. It's old news and it's just the result of that tech. You can find it in every review at the time. The screen will be also an OLED, with HDR, which are both another level of quality, compared to what you can find now.
You're bouncing between topics, and aren't really clarifying anything. The customised sub-pixel alignment of the PSVR screen limits the screen door effect. This is what the reviews talk about. PSVR has, for its pixel count, basically no screen door effect - an incredibly impressive piece of engineering. It doesn't magically conjure additional pixels to display additional visual information, improving clarity.
The HDR OLED screen, however, will provide much better colours - especially for darker images, which LCDs always struggle with. The images are going to be more vibrant and much more lifelike than the Quest 2, no question there.

And about foveated rendering, a software thing doesn't even have sense. It has to be necessarily done accordingly to the direction of the gaze, and PSVR2 head director said that it's the feature that considers the most important. Putting a fast IR eye tracker just to browse menus is pointless as well.
Nothing you've written here addresses my post. We don't know if PSVR2 has eye-tracked foveated rendering, but it's such a massive feature that I doubt Sony wouldn't be talking about it if they had it. We'll wait and see, but as it stands right now, they don't claim to have it.
 

GHG

Gold Member
Hardware specs look good but it's a great shame it's not wireless (unless there's some wireless capability that's yet to be announced).

If there are some interesting exclusive games releasing on it then I'll get one. Skipped the first Psvr because of how poor the resolution is.
 
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