Lognor
Banned
No way. That has got to be the Nintendo Switch, right? Look at the sustained demand it has had for 4 years. It's insane.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Famitsu Sales: 12/13/21 – 12/19/21
- Thread starter reksveks
- Start date
Kerotan
Member
Have you seen the price the ps5 is going for second hand? In europe €800 for a ps5 today from CEX and it's not even holiday season. It was €900 during December and November.
The Switch was never anywhere close to this. Ps5 a global phenom like we've never seen before and it could be years before supply catches up. We could see a ps5 pro launching in a few years and the pro and regular could be short on supply at the same time. https://ie.webuy.com/product-detail...title=playstation-5-console-825gb-white-boxed
gradient
Resident Cheap Arse
The Wii was going for upto $1k and the Switch has been scalped at 3-4x retail during it's many shortages. What you're describing is not a new phenomenon, it's just the byproduct of supply issues.
Hell go back to 1988 and the chip shortages then and you'd see NES games being scalped at 5-10x retail due to the same kinds of supply issues.
Kerotan
Member
The ps5 has been going for these crazy prices since launch worldwide. The Switch wasn't for anywhere near this long and certainly not WW. Maybe in 1 or 2 regions.
Deerock71
Member
Tradewinds are favorable for Nintendo to overtake the PS2 with the Switch, and you're comparing unfavorable PS5 supply issues to the Switch's situation. I'm sure Nintendo will find a way to carry on despite such MASSIVE PS5 demand.
Lognor
Banned
Pro
Has more to do with supply, actually. Sony can't make enough. If Nintendo had the type of supply Sony had the Switches would be going for the same types of prices. But Nintendo has done a fantastic job with supply. You can easily find one anywhere. And don't forget, the PS5 has fallen behind the PS4 launch aligned and the Switch is about to pass the PS4 in total sales.
gradient
Resident Cheap Arse
It lasted way longer for the Switch. So much so that people were claiming Nintendo was using manufactured scarcity in years 3 and 4 or trying to dismiss the scalping and shortages as a product of the pandemic alone.
I don't know, maybe you're young and this is your first console generation, but by and large the supply issues and scalping you're proclaiming to be a never before seen phenomenon are actually fairly common and have been far more severe in the past.
Kerotan
Member
I agree. In Japan demand for switch higher but WW the ps5 is the most demanded console ever.
Nah not like this. There were big shortages at Christmas WW but in the off season months it was only really a few markets like Japan and even at that they weren't going second hand like the PS5 has been since day 1. It's insanity like we've never seen.
KingGhidorah
Banned
Lognor
Banned
Source on the bolded?
Feels like worldwide the Switch is the most demanded. Look at sales charts anywhere in the world. Switch sold consoles in North America. More than half of the top 10 in the PAL charts are Switch games. Switch is absolutely dominating worldwide. Maybe not as much as they are dominating in Japan, but the Switch has got to be the most in demand console ever. Look at the sales! They speak for themselves!
gradient
Resident Cheap Arse
Yeah, like this and worse.
Chip shortages in '88 led to Nintendo cutting production of some games in order to focus on others which in turn led to some nasty legal issues. The Wii was so popular and in so much demand that it was scalped at upto 4x retail for the first 2 years of it's life. The Switch had so much demand on it that Nintendo couldn't even shift units from one region to another like Sony is doing.
Your view that the PS5's issues are somehow unique and exceptional really do appear to be based upon inexperience of past generations. I hope the PS5 does well, as I hope the XBox Series will too (competition is good for the market and the consumer), but you're cheerleading a little too hard and making wild statements ("PS5 most demanded ever") that just don't hold up.
Azelover
Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
If there really is so much demand in Japan, I don't think PS5 supplies should be relocated to this extent.
Yes, the direct competition is fiercer in the rest of the world. But they still have to at least try where there is demand. I think Sony is making a mistake here. But that's just my very very humble opinion.
Yes, the direct competition is fiercer in the rest of the world. But they still have to at least try where there is demand. I think Sony is making a mistake here. But that's just my very very humble opinion.
Last edited:
Kerotan
Member
They are giving Japan overall at least a respectable number but the issue is scalers are all over them and sending them abroad where demand is insanely high compared to supply. They'd have to send a huge amount to Japan to appease scalers and the Japanese and that would ultimately hurt them in their battle against xbox in the west.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
PS5 is behind wii U launch aligned in JP
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Ah yes, Sony decided to practically abandon Japan because... it had no competition in Japan? That's totally how business works.
Kerotan
Member
It didn't abandon Japan, scalers are taking the allotment elsewhere. But it definitely isn't prioritising units from say the UK or America to help boost Japanese numbers. And the reason is obvious. They care more about beating xbox then the Switch.Ah yes, Sony decided to practically abandon Japan because... it had no competition in Japan? That's totally how business works.
Anyway when do we get new numbers?
Last edited:
Nautilus
Banned
Lol.
This post is so out there, using a logic that belongs to a different reality altogether, that all I can do is laugh at it. Not to mention the revisionism, given that the Gameboy, GBA, DS, 3DS, and the Wii all reigned supreme in Japan during their respective gens.
Guess that the PS5 doing this poorly ended up breaking you, didn't it?
Nautilus
Banned
What, you are actually complaining that I went out of my way to give him an appropriate answer, or are you mad because you cant argue out of this, while on a simple "yes or no" answer you could?
Do we know what this week did for the PS4?
ignore me; it doesn't matter. in terms of launch aligned,
After 58 weeks: 1,197,948 for the PS5
After 60 weeks: 1,320,742 for the PS4
so PS5 needs 122,794.
It should be close based on last years numbers but week 59 is the possible blocker.
Last edited:
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
They want to beat Xbox in uk and America because they simply can not compete with Nintendo in Japan. The demand for ps5 in Japan just isn’t there.
The ps5 is behind the ps4 now, so we will see how it pans out over the generation. I think Sony knows they need to get into pc becuase they aren’t actually growing the overall market of console gaming. It’s not like they are going to sell 200 or 300 million ps5s. The slice of market always seems to be around the same size and the cost of developing games is always increasing.
it’s going to be an interesting generation to see how MS and Sony create more profit opportunities.
KingGhidorah
Banned
Out of the three, I think Sony is in the precarious position
Nintendo has pretty secured walled garden; hybrid/handheld market, strongest first party line-up and Japan market
Microsoft has cloud strategy and rich daddy with unlimited money
Sony has ???? I think Sony is going with VR and movie angle. They have movie studio, and their games are very cinematic. And they do start making movies for their games
Last edited:
Kerotan
Member
Nintendo selling like shit or gang busters doesn't effect how Sony sells and it hasn't since Nintendo stopped being successful with a powerful home console. Which let's be honest was the n64 vs the ps1.
Walter Matthau
Member
If consumers had infinite time and money, your statement would be correct. As it stands, consumers need to use their finite resources to pick and choose where they will spend that time and money.
Kerotan
Member
Maybe they are still hungover from new years. We want numbers!
Woopah
Member
PS5, Switch and Xbox all compete with each other in every market. Its just that the three companies have different levels of strength in different markets.
Nintendo Switch uses older and lower powered part than PS5. That is the reason why Switch supply is more plentiful, not Nintendo being "smarter".Yep, bottom line is Nintendo is just smarter than Sony
Sony has a very strong first party and third party line up, with additional strong revenue streams from subscriptions, microtransactions and DLC. Their global position is not precarious at all.
KingGhidorah
Banned
Sony is dumb for killing PS4 early, in the midst of pandemic, they went full PS5, when they could've had their factories produce 40% PS4 and 60% PS5...at the end of the day, chip shortage and supply chain are the bottleneck, not their manufacturing capacity
Sony is in the most precarious position out of the three
Nintendo, no matter what, will have their 1st party line-up and Japan market. Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, Animal Crossing are the strongest brands in gaming industry. And Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda are among the oldest brands, so their staying power are proven
Microsoft, no matter what, will have their rich daddy money. That money will last 1000+ years
Sony, has what? the only true staying power is God of War brand. Even Spider-Man is not their IP. If their relationship with Disney turns sour, Spider-Man could've easily gone to Microsoft or multiplatform. So they continue to depend on Disney for Spider-Man. Their subscription revenue is strong because large PS4 install base, but PS4 is dying now. PS5 has to continue that success, which right now is proven to be challenging because of the shortage and supply chain issue. PS5 is already tracking below PS4 number
Last edited:
Kokoloko85
Member
Nothing to do with Jim Ryan.
Japan has been on the portable love for a long time, hence why Wii U sales sucked in Japan too.
Last gen was a resurgence in JRPG’s but still made no difference to Japan
Woopah
Member
Sony has God of War, Horizon, Uncharted, Ghosts of Tsushima, Gran Turismo and others. Also while PS4 hardware sales are slowing down the subscription and software revenue is still very strong. A generational transition has traditionally been the most challenging time for a console manufacturer, but Sony has got through this transition while being very very profitable.
Microsoft may have rich daddy money, but so does PlayStation. And the PlayStation business is much stronger than the Xbox one.
Its not a Jim Ryan issue or a portable issue but a software issue. Sony and Japanese third parties have struggled at creating new breakout hits for the PlayStation ecosystem in recent years (whereas they were very good at doing that on PS1, PS2 and PSP).
KingGhidorah
Banned
OK I forgot Gran Turismo......Horizon??? nah....1-2 successful games do not mean staying power.....Uncharted? status MIA so far.......GoT? LOL it's the new kid on the block
Sony has a lot more debt than cash right now.....with inflation creeping up, they're gonna get killed with loan interests......Even Nintendo has more cash than Sony, and Nintendo has ZERO debt
Last edited:
Woopah
Member
We'll have to see if Horizon and GoT have staying power but now they are recent Sony first party games with strong sales, and Uncharted had strong sales as well. The PlayStation business is in a much stronger position than the Xbox business. None of the three console manufacturers are in a precarious position.
prinz_valium
Member
You know debt is great in times of inflation right?
TheTony316
Member
"No matter what" is not that easy.
Out of the 3, Sony is the most consistent historically. All of their consoles, except the PS3 (and even that managed to sell over 90 million) were/are a big success.
Nintendo is hit or miss, you never really know with them. All it takes is one unnecessary gimmick to lose the momentum.
Xbox has rich daddy money but it all depends on how much Microsoft is willing to spend. Look at the Xbox One before Gamepass was a thing. Gaming isn't a priority to MS, they don't really need it to survive (unlike Nintendo and Sony) I bet they'd have no issues with cutting the cord, if Gamepass turns out to be a failure.
Supply shortages aren't exclusive to Playstation.
Last edited:
KingGhidorah
Banned
Government has to raise interest rates to tame inflation, like what they're about to do in 2022. If you have to renew your loan, you're gonna get hit with higher interest loans. High debt is horrible during inflation.
KingGhidorah
Banned
it's true Nintendo is not consistent, but that's also how their walled garden of 1st party games, handheld market and Japanese market protected them. They survived Gamecube failure, they survived Wii U failure. Their resiliency is proven
TheTony316
Member
True, but so is Sony's. The PS5 will most likely be a huge success. It's already one of the fastest selling consoles of all time, despite shortages.
KingGhidorah
Banned
We'll see....giving up their prized exclusives to PC shows that they're pretty desperate for revenue
TheTony316
Member
Porting 3-6 year old games that reached their sales potencial on console years ago, doesn't really mean anything atm. And who knows? What if Nintendo for some reason decides to port their old stuff on PC? Would you say the same about them too?
No one is 'desperate for revenue', it's just that growth is hard if you aren't getting new users into the 'platform'. Increasing ARPU is harder imo than increasing the user base at this point of time in the cycle of the gaming market.
There is two major platforms that both MS and Sony are going for, PC and Mobile.
TheTony316
Member
Right, they're a business, no one is desperate. Hell, Nintendo tried to sell cardboard for $60, isn't that being desperate for revenue? /s.
Orbital2060
Member
Is this hardware related? Because Xbox is publishing Minecraft in Japan in case you didnt notice. They have had a title consistently in the top5-10 for the last two years. How does that align with gaming not being a priority. And what do you mean if Game Pass turns out to be a failure? Lmao.
So many hot takes in these Famitsu threads. Its amusing to a point, but no good for a constructve discussion.
To begin with, people should be more focused on the software numbers and not the hardware.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
"Prized exclusives" as in...5 year old Horizon, dead IP Days Gone, God of War that's about to have a sequel and Uncharted Collection, a collection releasing in 2022 that includes a 2016 and a 2017 title?
Yes...they must be desperate.
It's clear they are releasing these games on PC without wanting to lose their console sales. Or maybe they realized it's idiotic in 2022 to have their expensive AAA titles locked in a single piece of hardware, in a time these companies are going for a "play our games everywhere" approach. Who knows...but desperation doesn't seem to be it.
TheTony316
Member
Yeah, i'm talking about hardware. Sony has been the most consistent with their consoles. About MS, my point was that they don't need gaming as much as Nintendo and Sony do. They could pull out at any point and be completely fine as a company. So, IF Gamepass underperforms, they'd have no trouble with killing it off.
Orbital2060
Member
Microsoft owns Xbox. For Xbox its all about gaming. If Microsoft decides to pull out, they would more likely sell the whole Xbox division. Which is an absurd take, as real as Sony wanting to sell off their gaming division. It sounds as if youre stuck in some old memes about Microsoft and previous failures. Its Xbox Games Studios, not Microsoft Games Studios. Its just Famitsu that still uses the old name.
So no, XGS could not pull out and be just fine. It would be the end of Xbox. Microsoft would be fine, sure.
And I dont understand how anyone can even question the success of Game Pass by now.
TheTony316
Member
I never said MS will get out of gaming or that Gamepass is a failure. But in the very unlikely scenario, Microsoft as a company would be fine, since Xbox isn't their main source of income, Windows/Enterprise is. Sony and Nintendo on the other hand would be dead. I'm not talking about XGS. Obviously, it would be catastrophic for them but it's parent company? No big deal. That's all i'm saying.
Last edited:
Rivet
Member
Game Pass missed its latest annual growth target so yes, you can definitely question its success :
Xbox Game Pass growth slows as Microsoft misses target
Not saying it won't work later obviously, nobody knows.
Last edited:
prinz_valium
Member
CEO compensatuon targets are a little different from internal realistic targets.
Rivet
Member
CEO targets are based on corporation business targets. Here, GamePass annual business growth target (chosen by Microsoft themselves) was 48 %. This was the internal realistic target according to MS. It was missed, real growth was "only" 37%.
It may be due to components shortage limiting Xbox sales though (and MS not being able to evaluate those shortages properly, which is fine), so no reason to worry just yet. But there's no reason to think it's a sweeping success either when it just missed its latest growth target.
Everything about console (or even PC GPU) sales must be evaluated AFTER shortages end anyway. Right now, it makes zero sense, there should be no sales thread of any kind, half of the products aren't on shelves. Whatever is on shelves obviously sells the most.
Last edited: