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BREAKING: Sony is acquiring Bungie for 3.6b

Lognor

Banned
We seen how valuable rare IPs are. If your IP is dormant for 20 years, it loses the power of attraction. It wont be popular like it used to be in the past.
You need to constant update the old IPs to be relevent.

Also Sony recent games proves new IPs can be successful. Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order is another example.
What IP did Rare have when they left Nintendo? Banjo Kazooie? I think the Xbox game did okay, but not sure what else Rare had. And maybe the issue there was that Microsoft had not at that point cultivated an audience for 3d platformers? Not sure. But yeah, Microsoft hasn't really done anything with those Rare IP in years. But look at when Banjo was announced for Smash. I think there was a massive auidence pleading for him and when he finally get in people lost their damn minds. So that IP, although unused, is still valuable. You could argue the same thing for Spiderman in video games. Before the Insomniac games Spiderman games were mostly mediocre and Spiderman had lost the power of attraction (your words). Yet a good game comes along and it blew up again. If Spiderman was instead Infamous with the same game mechanics it would not have been as successful. So yeah, IPs, even if unused, still hold a ton of value.

And Star Wars Fallen Order isn't a new IP. It's based on Star Wars. LOL. If that was a generic game with a new IP it would not have been as successful. Talent comes and goes. IP is king.
 

DeaDPo0L84

Member
FKhW55wXMAUNsl5
This is embarrassing and not for the reason you probably intended.
 

kingfey

Banned
What IP did Rare have when they left Nintendo? Banjo Kazooie? I think the Xbox game did okay, but not sure what else Rare had. And maybe the issue there was that Microsoft had not at that point cultivated an audience for 3d platformers? Not sure. But yeah, Microsoft hasn't really done anything with those Rare IP in years. But look at when Banjo was announced for Smash. I think there was a massive auidence pleading for him and when he finally get in people lost their damn minds. So that IP, although unused, is still valuable. You could argue the same thing for Spiderman in video games. Before the Insomniac games Spiderman games were mostly mediocre and Spiderman had lost the power of attraction (your words). Yet a good game comes along and it blew up again. If Spiderman was instead Infamous with the same game mechanics it would not have been as successful. So yeah, IPs, even if unused, still hold a ton of value.

And Star Wars Fallen Order isn't a new IP. It's based on Star Wars. LOL. If that was a generic game with a new IP it would not have been as successful. Talent comes and goes. IP is king.
Did you see rare IPs? They could have made platform games for xbox, like how Nintendo has Mario games on their console. Even Sony made ratchet and clank games.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
PS makes more money than Xbox. What do you think market share is? They sell more consoles, more software and don’t have a money sink called gamepass, you can look this info up if you want to.

Again - how do you know? Based on what? UK boxed charts? Digital sales are also something only Sony and MS know. And MS has been on PC for quite a while so they're not solely dependant on console units like Sony and Nintendo are, and again, we don't know how they're doing there. As for GP, last year they said it's already profitable on its own, and the service has grown up by the by another couple of million users.
 

0neAnd0nly

Member
Does it? We only know the revenues of the three console makers, with Sony indeed being in the lead by a large margin, but in terms of the actual profit Nintendo makes twice as much as Sony, with half of Sony's revenue. Now where does MS lands? Nobody knows really since MS doesn't want to give the numbers.



I adore how much this graph triggered some folks here, truth hurts it seems, because that's the reality - that's the amount of money Sony spend on just a single studio that has just one game in their portfolio, and they gonna provide just one game, one new IP within this generation at least. Last time I checked it was all about the games, something changed, did I miss something?

I think some people desperately wanted a "gotcha!" moment from Sony after MS's both big acquisitions, but that's not it, sorry. But fear not, Ryan already said there's more coming. Which is actually funny after his "organic growth" quote, seems that one aged just like the infamous "we believe in generations".

Jim isn’t good.

Sony has been cocky and partially to blame.

But that still doesn’t make”triggered” reactions to this list irrelevant. Half those games don’t exist currently. Bethesda been on an arc downward. On top of that, XBOX basically forced everybody’s hand for mass consolidation and this is what is and will continue to occur. You WILL lose games on your system you enjoyed - and if you want to play them in the not-so-distant future will need to own all 3. This will be at the most extreme we have ever seen. On top of that, GamePass will NOT stay at dirt cheap prices. With big purchases comes bigger pricing to cover the cost. The consumer always ends up paying at the end of the day. Always.

This isn’t a good move, consolidation sucks all the way around - and no corporate cheerleading will fix that. Gamers should be inherently against this BS, because like politics, it’s all cyclical. You will end up getting bit. We all will.
 
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Banjo64

cumsessed
What IP did Rare have when they left Nintendo? Banjo Kazooie? I think the Xbox game did okay, but not sure what else Rare had. And maybe the issue there was that Microsoft had not at that point cultivated an audience for 3d platformers? Not sure. But yeah, Microsoft hasn't really done anything with those Rare IP in years. But look at when Banjo was announced for Smash. I think there was a massive auidence pleading for him and when he finally get in people lost their damn minds. So that IP, although unused, is still valuable. You could argue the same thing for Spiderman in video games. Before the Insomniac games Spiderman games were mostly mediocre and Spiderman had lost the power of attraction (your words). Yet a good game comes along and it blew up again. If Spiderman was instead Infamous with the same game mechanics it would not have been as successful. So yeah, IPs, even if unused, still hold a ton of value.

And Star Wars Fallen Order isn't a new IP. It's based on Star Wars. LOL. If that was a generic game with a new IP it would not have been as successful. Talent comes and goes. IP is king.
Rare had some good IP going in to that Xbox acquisition.

Banjo
Conker
Perfect Dark
Killer Instinct
Battletoads
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
How the fuck did I only just hear about this? This is massive news, right? I mean, doesn’t it mean Microsoft have lost the exclusive rights to Halo, possibly one of Xbox’s biggest system sellers?

Bungie is a one trick pony. And that pony's name is not Halo. It is Destiny.
 
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kingfey

Banned
PS makes more money than Xbox. What do you think market share is? They sell more consoles, more software and don’t have a money sink called gamepass, you can look this info up if you want to.
That gen is done.
We are in new gen. Once new gen games drops, Sony will lose alot of revenue, because they wont have enough ps4 users to support them.

With MS buying bethesda and activision, Sony software sales is at risk. Those users will buy games from xbox consoles, instead of playstation consoles.

It wont have any big impact as of now, but in 4-5 years, Sony will feel the impact. Japan Sony is big example.
 
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Swift_Star

Banned
That gen is done.
We are in new gen. Once new gen games drops, Sony will lose alot of revenue, because they wont have enough ps4 users to support them.

With MS buying bethesda and activision, Sony software sales is at risk. Those users will be games from xbox consoles, instead of playstation consoles.

It wont have any big impact as of now, but in 4-5 years, Sony will feel the impact. Japan Sony is big example.
🔮
 

Swift_Star

Banned
Again - how do you know? Based on what? UK boxed charts? Digital sales are also something only Sony and MS know. And MS has been on PC for quite a while so they're not solely dependant on console units like Sony and Nintendo are, and again, we don't know how they're doing there. As for GP, last year they said it's already profitable on its own, and the service has grown up by the by another couple of million users.
I won’t even bother. I’m done with delusional people. One more to the ignore list.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
Jim isn’t good.

Sony has been cocky and partially to blame.

But that still doesn’t make”triggered” reactions to this list irrelevant. Half those games don’t exist currently. Bethesda been on an arc downward. On top of that, XBOX basically forced everybody’s hand for mass consolidation and this is what is and will continue to occur. You WILL lose games on your system you enjoyed - and if you want to play them in the not-so-distant future will need to own all 3. This will be at the most extreme we have ever seen. On top of that, GamePass will NOT stay at dirt cheap prices. With big purchases comes bigger pricing to cover the cost. The consumer always ends up paying at the end of the day. Always.

This isn’t a good move, consolidation sucks all the way around - and no corporate cheerleading will fix that. Gamers should be inherently against this BS, because like politics, it’s all cyclical. You will end up getting bit. We all will.

It's actually MS to blame for not giving Sony enough competition, dame as Intel slept on the CPU market because AMD's strongest CPU barely traded blows with Intel's lowest tier i3.

But I personally like the direction the market is going, it'll be actually much easier to decide to get multiple consoles if their libraries will be so vastly different, compared to what's going on now there it's all the exact same games minus a dozen 1P titles, it just doesn't make much sense to me, consoles used to be exciting exactly because of their unique catalogue of games, and that charm has been lost recently.
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
That's not even what one trick pony means. You literally contradicted yourself multiple times.

You're right but please excuse me, I'm dead tired. You know what I mean. They can only do one type of game (FPS) and what's worst is that they've been basically doing the same game since 2001.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
That gen is done.
We are in new gen. Once new gen games drops, Sony will lose alot of revenue, because they wont have enough ps4 users to support them.

With MS buying bethesda and activision, Sony software sales is at risk. Those users will be games from xbox consoles, instead of playstation consoles.

It wont have any big impact as of now, but in 4-5 years, Sony will feel the impact. Japan Sony is big example.
jO15Gzq.gif
 
Becuase thats what it takes to get a COD game out everywhere and support Warzone so it keeps printing money. CoD makes them $3.5 billion a year. If anything, they will need more studios to pitch in when they go next gen only with Warzone 2.

No one is going to be the one to suggest cod take an yearly break and they lose $3.5 billion in revenue. Half of it pure profit.
They meant the standalone COD games taking a yearly break or 2-year break between releases. No one said anything about Warzone not staying annual, it wouldn't make any sense to do so either for the reasons you state (guaranteed revenue now being put on ice due to stopping regular yearly updates).

That said, they don't need all of those teams on Warzone; that's just what Activision wanted to do in order to pump out even more revenue from the IP, and they had that specific need due to their status as a 3P publisher up until the acquisition. Now as part of Microsoft Gaming, they won't have the same need, so they can ease up on assigning so many teams to a single franchise.

They'll make a lot more money through diversifying their content output across multiple IP because a company like Microsoft in particular, has multiple big franchises that earn them a lot in revenue annually. Activision-Blizzard only "really" has COD (even if individually, it generates more revenue than any one single other Microsoft franchise (or any other franchise in gaming, for that matter)).

IP are much more valuable than people that. That point is clear. Yes, they need the talent to work on it, but developing new IP is incredibly risky. Microsoft has a huge stable of successful IP that makes new games a safer bet. Bungie has...Destiny. And that is a successful game, but when they tire of Destiny there is a ton of risk involved in a new project with a new IP.

Yep; underestimating the brand power of IPs is foolish. There's a reason companies like Nintendo have persevered and are so well-known across the world, it's due to the strength of their IPs, which they've built up over many years with regular iterations and (usually) keeping the quality at a steady output level.

Talent means a lot but definitely not everything; you can have all the talent in the world but if the IP is just not very appealing, and there's no massive marketing push, then the game will fail commercially. Even with all that going, bad timing can also kill it, as evidenced by games like TitanFall which by all other measures should've been massive hits. Generally speaking, if you've got a well-established brand and the marketing muscle, having "good enough" talent will ensure a generally expected success, and timing is less of an issue.

OTOH if the IP is unknown and marketing muscle is weak, you'll need top-of-the-line talent just to hope the game doesn't get lost in the shuffle. And if you release it at the same time as a solid entry in a well-known popular IP? Forget it, that new IP might as well be dead.
 
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kyliethicc

Member

kingfey

Banned
Tell me this in business plan.
How do you think, Sony will make up those 8 years of activation sales on their devices?

Call of duty was a big hit on their consoles. From mtx, to dlc, to copies sold, Sony benefited massively from activision. Cold war did 30m sales, and that game comeout in 2020. Most sales were on PS system. if cold war sold 15m on ps4/ps5, that would mean $675m at 45$ average price sale. sony would get $202.5m at 30% cut. It would be 3.3m last of us 2 sales at 60$. That is how much money Sony was getting from COD. we arent even counting mtx and dlc sales.

Then you get Bethesda which gave Sony psvr, some VR games. Doom and Skyrim VR was a big hit for psvr system.

These 2 left huge void for Sony.

Sony still have their own 1st party games. but those 2 companies gave them players who were only interested in 3rd party games. Now Sony is losing those customers to Xbox. That is alot of money lost.
 

kingfey

Banned
tell me smart guy, how will sony make up those lost sales from these 2 publishers, losing the 120m ps4 users.

The current ps5 hardware is not even 20m. They are facing chip shortages, which affects their console manufactures. Same thing for XSX/S. At least MS has the pc side for their day1 games.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
tell me smart guy, how will sony make up those lost sales from these 2 publishers, losing the 120m ps4 users.

The current ps5 hardware is not even 20m. They are facing chip shortages, which affects their console manufactures. Same thing for XSX/S. At least MS has the pc side for their day1 games.
A link saying Sony lost 120 million users?

Link saying when Bethesda games will stop being on PlayStation?

Link saying Activision games won't be on PlayStation and when/if this is happening?
 

GhostOfTsu

Banned
Empire Earth? 🤣
Half of these IPs are corpses
Are we getting another PHANTASMAGORIA from Microsoft? 🤣
IP are much more valuable than people that. That point is clear. Yes, they need the talent to work on it, but developing new IP is incredibly risky. Microsoft has a huge stable of successful IP that makes new games a safer bet. Bungie has...Destiny. And that is a successful game, but when they tire of Destiny there is a ton of risk involved in a new project with a new IP.
Crash and Spyro are not in development and won't be before 2024 IF Ms is somehow able to stop the COD factory and rehire those devs. Both games underperformed anyway. The rest is dead.
 

kyliethicc

Member
Yea, wikipedia (take with a grain of salt) lists Mojang, MS, and Sony as publishers.
Mojang is listed as the publisher on the PS store
Yeah I was under the assumption it was Microsoft publishing it but you're right

Even Minecraft Dungeons is published under MojangAB

Its a leftover thing from before Microsoft bought Mojang. Weird deals. Like Sony publishes Minecraft on PS4 on disc. (So it's technically Sony 1st party lol.) Its because Sony was publishing Minecraft on PS3 way back. Its why there's a Sony logo on the discs.

Sony even sells Minecraft on their own 1st party game store.


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Swift_Star

Banned
Tell me this in business plan.
How do you think, Sony will make up those 8 years of activation sales on their devices?

Call of duty was a big hit on their consoles. From mtx, to dlc, to copies sold, Sony benefited massively from activision. Cold war did 30m sales, and that game comeout in 2020. Most sales were on PS system. if cold war sold 15m on ps4/ps5, that would mean $675m at 45$ average price sale. sony would get $202.5m at 30% cut. It would be 3.3m last of us 2 sales at 60$. That is how much money Sony was getting from COD. we arent even counting mtx and dlc sales.

Then you get Bethesda which gave Sony psvr, some VR games. Doom and Skyrim VR was a big hit for psvr system.

These 2 left huge void for Sony.

Sony still have their own 1st party games. but those 2 companies gave them players who were only interested in 3rd party games. Now Sony is losing those customers to Xbox. That is alot of money lost.
Again: 🔮
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
How can ps4 users play ps5 games? Dont you need ps5 to play ps5 games?


Starfield


Starfield.
Yes they can.
Are you familiar with the upcoming PlayStation lineup?

Starfield is one game.
It's the only Bethesda game said to not be coming to Playstation.

Starfield isn't made by Activision.

I didn't think you could answer correctly.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Does it pull from the entire player base, or only those who registered with a bot like Charlemagne on discord? Cause most of the ones I’ve seen can only see those who both play and have registered with the bot service.
It is the Bungie API.


It is public.
Of course you still have to code the bot to make the API call and show the data in a pretty way.
 
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kingfey

Banned
Yes they can.
Are you familiar with the upcoming PlayStation lineup?
Not spiderman 2, wolverine, or any PlayStation games in 3 years from now. Not to mention 3rd party games, which will be next gen only.

Starfield is one game.
It's the only Bethesda game said to not be coming to Playstation.
Starfield is the start. If that big bethesda game isnt coming to playstation, none of besthesda is coming to playstation.

Starfield isn't made by Activision.
Its made by bethesda, which Xbox owns it. Same as how they own activision now, after the deal is done.

I didn't think you could answer correctly.
We had tons of topic and arguments here. you can look back to those post. Phil said the same thing he said about activision, during Bethesda deal. Once the contractual games is done, everything would be xbox exclusive.
 

kingfey

Banned
Crash and Spyro are not in development and won't be before 2024 IF Ms is somehow able to stop the COD factory and rehire those devs. Both games underperformed anyway. The rest is dead.
Fable and Perfect dark were dead. But now they are back. MS is learning from their mistakes.

Plus spyro and crash are kids games, which MS is looking for. Expect those games to be in development once the deal is done.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Ah ok. I had my bots mixed up. I was thinking of warmind.io

Either way, very very healthy numbers, especially for a game entering year 5 of service.
Warmind.io is the site from Charlemagne.
He has a bot called Charlemagne on Discord.

They are from same guy… same data… before he has only the site but moved to Discord bot lately.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Not spiderman 2, wolverine, or any PlayStation games in 3 years from now. Not to mention 3rd party games, which will be next gen only.


Starfield is the start. If that big bethesda game isnt coming to playstation, none of besthesda is coming to playstation.


Its made by bethesda, which Xbox owns it. Same as how they own activision now, after the deal is done.


We had tons of topic and arguments here. you can look back to those post. Phil said the same thing he said about activision, during Bethesda deal. Once the contractual games is done, everything would be xbox exclusive.
Link saying no PlayStation 5 games are coming 3 years from now to PS4?

So because of Starfield you are insinuating not a single Bethesda game will release on PlayStation, am I reading this correct?

If we go by what MS actually said.... in both instances it's not exactly clear, so more insinuating on your part correct?
 

MonarchJT

Banned
Yeah, they are. Destiny is a much bigger IP than potentially anything in the Zenimax deal

They are also a huge studio with 1000+ employees

Different objectives though. You can’t compare the two just from the lens of buying as many studios/employees as possible. That’s not how this works
ahahah what drugs this guy started to take?
 

kingfey

Banned
Link saying no PlayStation 5 games are coming 3 years from now to PS4?

So because of Starfield you are insinuating not a single Bethesda game will release on PlayStation, am I reading this correct?

If we go by what MS actually said.... in both instances it's not exactly clear, so more insinuating on your part correct?
I think you need to let this go my friend.

You should know this by know, none of these games will come to playstation. If you didnt get the starfield memo, then I cant help you.
 

kingfey

Banned
Yeah, they are. Destiny is a much bigger IP than potentially anything in the Zenimax deal

They are also a huge studio with 1000+ employees

Different objectives though. You can’t compare the two just from the lens of buying as many studios/employees as possible. That’s not how this works
Destiny 2 went f2p to have those numbers. you cant compare it to zenimax deal at all.
 

0neAnd0nly

Member
It's actually MS to blame for not giving Sony enough competition, dame as Intel slept on the CPU market because AMD's strongest CPU barely traded blows with Intel's lowest tier i3.

But I personally like the direction the market is going, it'll be actually much easier to decide to get multiple consoles if their libraries will be so vastly different, compared to what's going on now there it's all the exact same games minus a dozen 1P titles, it just doesn't make much sense to me, consoles used to be exciting exactly because of their unique catalogue of games, and that charm has been lost recently.

There is certainly some nuance here worth diving into.

I understand your frustration with the market, and I tend to be more frustrated too with the current market compared to the ps2/xb/gc days. I don't agree however that this will make it better. It is being more centralized into silicon valley, which is largely responsible for the games you are complaining about. On top of that, IMO, the reason the landscape changed was due to budget of game development. When I was in the industry early this last decade, I was around during the console launch. I actually was told pre-e3 that Sony was looking at DRM and all from a... high ranking Sony executive shall we say. That was a bit of a chance meeting, but cool. They abandoned that really late to rock the world and curve the trend towards them and make XB look poor. Anyhow, side ramble over - one of the business trips I attended for the industry (marketing mostly, as that was a large part of what I did), went over the insane gap in early ps3/360 game dev cost to early ps4/xb1. IT was astronomical, largely thanks to the industry taking huge leads from GTA (which we still see the affects of today). Anyhow, during this price climb, the industry consolidated heavy and we lost many, many small studios. Those fun mid tier games we saw aplenty in earlier generations all of a sudden couldn't make enough revenue to support their development. Indies were born, and here we are. This is the same thing on an even bigger scope, IMO. Won't be good for consumers.

Glad we can have a respectful debate though, love GAF!
 

ethomaz

Banned
Destiny 2 went f2p to have those numbers. you cant compare it to zenimax deal at all.
First Destiny is not F2P even if they lead you to believe it is… it is more like a very very old demo with no end gaming or progression… Destiny have theses numbers with people paying $70-80 every year since 2014.

BTW which franchise do you believe is bigger than Destiny in Zenimax hands?

NPD said Destiny is the second best selling FPS franchise in US since 2014… only CoD was bigger.
 
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kingfey

Banned
First Destiny is not F2P even if they lead you to believe it is… it is more like a very very old demo with no end gaming or progression… Destiny have theses numbers with people paying $70-80 every year since 2014.

BTW which franchise do you believe is bigger than Destiny in Zenimax hands?

NPD said Destiny is the second best selling FPS franchise in US since 2014… only CoD was bigger.
Quake, but that franchise have been sleeping dormant.

If quake is being revived by MS, it would be big a hit. Ticks exactly all shooter boxes. Quake is much bigger than Halo itself. One of the holy grail of PC shooter game.

but as of now, nothing really. None of the current active Zenimax IPs can match Destiny revenue.
 

elliot5

Member
Quake, but that franchise have been sleeping dormant.

If quake is being revived by MS, it would be big a hit. Ticks exactly all shooter boxes. Quake is much bigger than Halo itself. One of the holy grail of PC shooter game.

but as of now, nothing really. None of the current active Zenimax IPs can match Destiny revenue.
except Quake Champions came and died pretty quick. Yeah it had hero shooter aspects which maybe traditionalists wouldn't like, but I have no reason to believe a traditional Quake MP game would live for that long. Audiences have moved on to different things. A Quake reboot in the vein of DOOM would be welcome, but I doubt a MP component would be super popular beyond flavor of the month
 
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