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[Chastten]

The problem with not adding requirements is that a smart refrigerator actually is considered a home console based on your verry narrow definition. The fact that the definition you're using says a smart refrigerator is a home console should tell you that the definition is wrong. How you can't see that is beyond me. We might disagree on what the requirements SHOULD be for how a home console is defined, but we should be able to agree that a refrigerator isn't a home console. And yet, you can't do that with your definition.

That was a sarcastic comment cause I was trying to imitate the comments of the other guy who made absolutely no sense. Since a fridge isnt used for playing games it is by definition not a console. Could you make the internal hardware into one? Sure. But the fridge itself isnt.

Anyways, I have no issue with the official definition being changed to fit with modern times. I have issues with random people on internet forums changing the definition randomly in order to fit their agenda.

 

[IFireflyl]

Since a fridge isnt used for playing games it is by definition not a console.

 

[Trunx81]

Impressive numbers. As a long time fan it’s always nice to see Nintendo coming out top.

And for the years old discussion:
For me, my Switch is a handheld.
For my son it’s a tv console.

It can be what you want it to be. You can choose. It’s “consolefluid”.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

That was a sarcastic comment cause I was trying to imitate the comments of the other guy who made absolutely no sense. Since a fridge isnt used for playing games it is by definition not a console. Could you make the internal hardware into one? Sure. But the fridge itself isnt.

Anyways, I have no issue with the official definition being changed to fit with modern times. I have issues with random people on internet forums changing the definition randomly in order to fit their agenda.

The definition is very clear and hasn't changed in a while. A console is a dedicated gaming device. That's basically it. Of course you'll see fans of a certain console do some incredible mental gymnastics to persuade others that a dedicated gaming device like the Switch is not a console, but they are not to be taken seriously.

 

[IFireflyl]

The definition is very clear and hasn't changed in a while. A console is a dedicated gaming device. That's basically it. Of course you'll see fans of a certain console do some incredible mental gymnastics to persuade others that a dedicated gaming device like the Switch is not a console, but they are not to be taken seriously.

Handhelds are consoles. Nobody is disputing that. The only issue people had was with saying it was a home console (dedicated at-home gaming consoles) instead of a handheld console (portable consoles). Nobody's saying Nintendo didn't accomplish something amazing (at least not that I've seen). It's a disagreement over the wording and nothing more.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Handhelds are consoles. Nobody is disputing that. The only issue people had was with saying it was a home console (dedicated at-home gaming consoles) instead of a handheld console (portable consoles). Nobody's saying Nintendo didn't accomplish something amazing (at least not that I've seen). It's a disagreement over the wording and nothing more.

The Switch being a hybrid means it's a home console and a handheld console at the same time. Saying it's not a home console is strictly false since it fulfills the definition of a home console (connected to a display, external power source).

to Jimbo

 

[IFireflyl]

The Switch being a hybrid means it's a home console and a handheld console at the same time. Saying it's not a home console is strictly false since it fulfills the definition of a home console (connected to a display, external power source).

The primary design is the portable console. Just because you give something a docking station doesn't make it a home console. By that logic my Samsung phone is a home console with the Samsung DeX station. The ROG phone is a home console with its dock. My gaming laptop is a home console with its dock. Do you not see how there isn't a difference between those things? All of the devices I listed were designed to play games, and they dock to connect to an external display. You're saying that makes them home consoles, and I'm arguing that that is ridiculous.

 

[ReBurn]

I think it's funny people are still arguing over the definition of console. Does Switch selling well really bother people this much?

 

[Bernd Lauert]

The primary design is the portable console. Just because you give something a docking station doesn't make it a home console. By that logic my Samsung phone is a home console with the Samsung DeX station. The ROG phone is a home console with its dock. My gaming laptop is a home console with its dock. Do you not see how there isn't a difference between those things? All of the devices I listed were designed to play games, and they dock to connect to an external display. You're saying that makes them home consoles, and I'm arguing that that is ridiculous.

Phones and laptops are not dedicated gaming devices.

 

[IFireflyl]

Phones and laptops are not dedicated gaming devices.

Neither are consoles when you can use them to play YouTube, Spotify. Netflix, et cetera. Someone could buy a PS5 just for their media and never play a game on it. It's a Blu-ray player. It's an entertainment device. Just like the ROG phone and an ROG laptop are entertainment devices designed for gaming, but also offering additional functionality.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Neither are consoles when you can use them to play YouTube, Spotify. Netflix, et cetera. Someone could buy a PS5 just for their media and never play a game on it. It's a Blu-ray player. It's an entertainment device. Just like the ROG phone and an ROG laptop are entertainment devices designed for gaming, but also offering additional functionality.

As I said, mental gymnastics. If you really want to argue that game consoles are not dedicated gaming devices, I won't stop you.

 

[IFireflyl]

As I said, mental gymnastics. If you really want to argue that game consoles are not dedicated gaming devices, I won't stop you.

You keep giving me definitions and I'm showing you how those definitions are so vague that they apply to a wide variety of things that nobody calls a console. You're the one doing mental gymnastics. Tell me how I'm wrong instead of resorting to ad hominem. For clarity, I don't think the things I listed are consoles. I'm saying that by your definition either those are consoles, or even what we're calling consoles aren't consoles. We need a better definition for consoles in general, but adding a docking station doesn't make something a home console.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

You keep giving me definitions and I'm showing you how those definitions are so vague that they apply to a wide variety of things that nobody calls a console. You're the one doing mental gymnastics. Tell me how I'm wrong instead of resorting to ad hominem. For clarity, I don't think the things I listed are consoles. I'm saying that by your definition either those are consoles, or even what we're calling consoles aren't consoles. We need a better definition for consoles in general, but adding a docking station doesn't make something a home console.

I don't see why it's vague. You can watch Youtube on a dedicated gaming device, but this doesn't change the nature of the device. And yes, a docking station alone doesn't make a handheld console a home console. The fact that the Switch docking station acts as an external power source which allows for overclocking and thus different output modes makes it a home console.

 

[lastmessiah]

I think it's funny people are still arguing over the definition of console. Does Switch selling well really bother people this much?

This is why:

 

[IFireflyl]

I don't see why it's vague. You can watch Youtube on a dedicated gaming device, but this doesn't change the nature of the device. And yes, a docking station alone doesn't make a handheld console a home console. The fact that the Switch docking station acts as an external power source which allows for overclocking and thus different output modes makes it a home console.

Okay, I think I see where the confusion is coming from. What do you think "dedicated" means?

Also, the Switch isn't overclocked in docked mode. It's underclocked in handheld mode. When you dock it it's just going to it's just going to it's full capability. On the other hand, "dedicated" home consoles are always able to use their full clock speeds.

 

[ReBurn]

This is why:

To be fair Sony did everything in their power last gen to help Nintendo eradicate them from the Japanese market.

 

[BlackTron]

This argument is entertaining lol.

It's true that Switch is both a portable and a home console, which means that sales can no longer be compared apples-to-apples. Its achievement is great, but you must temper it with the fact that it takes Nintendo's portable and console market and rolls them into one device.

This fact is an annoyance to many people who still want to compare raw numbers between game systems, because we love black-and-white examples of facts in the great console war. That is why so many obsess over specs. But as with specs, there's now "more to the story" with sales numbers too. The horror! All we want is simple, emprical proof of the superiority of one system over another, and now we have to parse it with crap like critical thinking and understanding what the numbers mean. OH NO!

Come on guys. A phone is just that, a telephone, that also has gaming and multimedia capabilities.

A game console is a device designed primarily to play games, with a concern for performance, input devices and software. Sure it may also have some multimedia capabilities too, like Youtube. Ouya had Android apps like Youtube, it was still designed and marketed for gaming. It included a controller and had a gaming-centric storefront. The fact that its only exclusive I cared about was Towerfall doesn't change this.

Yes, you can also plug your laptop into a TV to "make your own game console". But it's not a game console, it's a computer that can take on the role of a console if you configure it to do so.

Switch is, without a doubt, a home console AND a portable. It was implicitly designed as such. The dock, cables and controller to play on TV come in the box and it's not meant as a secondary or unusual feature (such as, say, Super Game Boy/Game Boy Player). It accepts game cartridges and has a storefront that is entirely gaming focused despite a few apps like Youtube and Hulu.

Nobody goes out to get a Playstation and says "I want to get a multimedia device/BluRay player, but just to play games on it." One might say "I want to get a game console, but just for multimedia/bluray". We know it's a GAME SYSTEM that took on these extra functions.

A home game console is designed with a focus on gaming, offers games to play, provides an integrated controller solution, and connects to the TV with what's included in the box, not as an add-on/secondary feature. Ouya is a game console, your laptop or fridge isn't.

So is Switch. And it's ALSO a portable. With a brilliant hybrid design. And yes, this muddles all the sales numbers.

 

[Banjo64]

Taken from Reddit.

Nintendo have bought their A game this year even if you don’t include BOTW 2 or Metroid Prime 4.

Not to mention 2 giant expansions in MK8D and Monster Hunter Rise Sunbreak.

Easy to see why it’s still selling 20m units a year.

 

[IFireflyl]

A game console is a device designed primarily to play games, with a concern for performance, input devices and software. Sure it may also have some multimedia capabilities too, like Youtube. Ouya had Android apps like Youtube, it was still designed and marketed for gaming. It included a controller and had a gaming-centric storefront. The fact that its only exclusive I cared about was Towerfall doesn't change this.

Yes, you can also plug your laptop into a TV to "make your own game console". But it's not a game console, it's a computer that can take on the role of a console if you configure it to do so.

The problem is that their are dedicated gaming laptops that meet the criteria you listed in the first sentence above. The ROG laptops are built for gamers with all of the above in mind, and the newest ones are more powerful than an Xbox Series X or a PlayStation 5. They can also connect to external displays.

This is why I have argued that the definitions for consoles in general need to be updated. The definitions we're all using are subjective. The actual definition of "console" predates cell phones, and it is so vague that it applies to a wide range of devices that nobody calls a console.

I don't believe the Switch is a home console because the primary design of the Switch is a handheld console. It has an external dock that can be used to hook it up to a TV, but in my OPINION that doesn't make it a home console, but rather a handheld console.

And again, props to Nintendo for their sales. Regardless of semantics they accomplished something amazing, and I believe that also gave rise to things like the Steam Deck which I'm super excited for (and is also a handheld console even though it can be docked like the Switch).

 

[IFireflyl]

Oh great. Lognor has found another thread in which to give all of my posts the triggered emoji. You need to grow up, man.

 

[Lognor]

The problem is that their are dedicated gaming laptops that meet the criteria you listed in the first sentence above. The ROG laptops are built for gamers with all of the above in mind, and the newest ones are more powerful than an Xbox Series X or a PlayStation 5. They can also connect to external displays.

This is why I have argued that the definitions for consoles in general need to be updated. The definitions we're all using are subjective. The actual definition of "console" predates cell phones, and it is so vague that it applies to a wide range of devices that nobody calls a console.

I don't believe the Switch is a home console because the primary design of the Switch is a handheld console. It has an external dock that can be used to hook it up to a TV, but in my OPINION that doesn't make it a home console, but rather a handheld console.

And again, props to Nintendo for their sales. Regardless of semantics they accomplished something amazing, and I believe that also gave rise to things like the Steam Deck which I'm super excited for (and is also a handheld console even though it can be docked like the Switch).

If you want to include a laptop do it. The Nintendo switch is STILL the fastest selling console ever, apparently. Any other device you try to claim as a video game console will still not have sold as well as the Switch.

Why are you really doing these mental gymnastic? I'm guessing it's because you're salty that the Switch will soon pass the ps4 and you're making excuses. Sad really

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

All those sales numbers don't magically produce a good system. Still joycon drift. Still paid online that drones buy up because of the illusion of value attached to the paywall. Still a feeling of corporatness that was less apparent in the Iwata era.

 

[IFireflyl]

If you want to include a laptop do it. The Nintendo switch is STILL the fastest selling console ever, apparently. Any other device you try to claim as a video game console will still not have sold as well as the Switch.

Why are you really doing these mental gymnastic? I'm guessing it's because you're salty that the Switch will soon pass the ps4 and you're making excuses. Sad really

Why are you such an asshole? I have said multiple times that Nintendo's accomplishment with the Switch is amazing, including the very posts you obviously barely skimmed and then marked with the triggered emoji. I'm arguing semantics, not talent or success. Your post is the one that reeks of console warring as I never once compared the Switch to any other console, nor did I discount it's success. Get out of here with your childishness.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Okay, I think I see where the confusion is coming from. What do you think "dedicated" means?

Strictly speaking, dedicated means single use case. But we can't follow that definition, otherwise consoles don't exist. So I'd go with core use case.

Also, the Switch isn't overclocked in docked mode. It's underclocked in handheld mode. When you dock it it's just going to it's just going to it's full capability. On the other hand, "dedicated" home consoles are always able to use their full clock speeds.

And the Switch is able to use its full clock speeds when in home console mode.

 

[Lognor]

Why are you such an asshole? I have said multiple times that Nintendo's accomplishment with the Switch is amazing, including the very posts you obviously barely skimmed and then marked with the triggered emoji. I'm arguing semantics, not talent or success. Your post is the one that reeks of console warring as I never once compared the Switch to any other console, nor did I discount it's success. Get out of here with your childishness.

You say you're arguing semantics, like that's a good thing! No one wants someone arguing over semantics. Who gives a shit?!

If you think it's an amazing success and not trying to take anything away from it, why the hell are you arguing semantics? What's your point?!

 

[IFireflyl]

Strictly speaking, dedicated means single use case. But we can't follow that definition, otherwise consoles don't exist. So I'd go with core use case.

And the Switch is able to use its full clock speeds when in home console mode.

Right, so the ROG laptop fits your definition of console... It's a dedicated gaming system that has other use cases. Same for the ROG phone. That's why I disagree with how we define console.

 

[IFireflyl]

You say you're arguing semantics, like that's a good thing! No one wants someone arguing over semantics. Who gives a shit?!

If you think it's an amazing success and not trying to take anything away from it, why the hell are you arguing semantics? What's your point?!

This post is quite literally a temper tantrum. Do you even know what semantics means? Let me help you out:

Semantics: the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. There are a number of branches and subbranches of semantics, including formal semantics, which studies the logical aspects of meaning, such as sense, reference, implication, and logical form, lexical semantics, which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning.

I'm arguing over lexical semantics, which means the meaning of words. I have as much right to do that (on topic) as anyone else posting in here. I disagree with the use of "home console", but I would have gladly accepted "video game console" instead. But people got REALLY upset that I don't consider the Switch a home console, so I've been defending my reasoning. I'm not the only person in this thread doing so, but you're attacking me because you disagree with my stance. That's childish.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Right, so the ROG laptop fits your definition of console... It's a dedicated gaming system that has other use cases. Same for the ROG phone. That's why I disagree with how we define console.

While the ROG laptop and phone are marketed as gaming device, they are still general purpose devices. PCs and phones are too general purpose to be consoles.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Well, this thread proves that this will go down in history and will be argued by fanboys until they are blue in the face for the next 20 years if not more…..Once the switch outsells everything else it’s game over…..

we will be on our death beds reading posts about how the switch is not a real console and didn’t really outsell the ps2 because it’s really a handheld…..like it effing matters.

 

[IFireflyl]

While the ROG laptop and phone are marketed as gaming device, they are still general purpose devices. PCs and phones are too general purpose to be consoles.

I guess we're at an impasse then. You are using subjective standards for all of your definitions, and there's no way we are going to be able to see eye-to-eye in that case. And that's perfectly fine. We can agree to disagree. I'm able to disagree with someone and still remain civil about it.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I guess we're at an impasse then. You are using subjective standards for all of your definitions, and there's no way we are going to be able to see eye-to-eye in that case. And that's perfectly fine. We can agree to disagree. I'm able to disagree with someone and still remain civil about it.

It's not really a topic where people can 100% agree on a certain definition (like in let's say physics) because it is somewhat subjective after all. I could also totally make the case for an ROG laptop being a dedicated gaming device, so yeah.

 

[BlackTron]

The problem is that their are dedicated gaming laptops that meet the criteria you listed in the first sentence above. The ROG laptops are built for gamers with all of the above in mind, and the newest ones are more powerful than an Xbox Series X or a PlayStation 5. They can also connect to external displays.

This is why I have argued that the definitions for consoles in general need to be updated. The definitions we're all using are subjective. The actual definition of "console" predates cell phones, and it is so vague that it applies to a wide range of devices that nobody calls a console.

I don't believe the Switch is a home console because the primary design of the Switch is a handheld console. It has an external dock that can be used to hook it up to a TV, but in my OPINION that doesn't make it a home console, but rather a handheld console.

And again, props to Nintendo for their sales. Regardless of semantics they accomplished something amazing, and I believe that also gave rise to things like the Steam Deck which I'm super excited for (and is also a handheld console even though it can be docked like the Switch).

You're entitled to your own opinion, even if it doesn't make any sense.

In practical terms of how it works, the Switch is a handheld device that gets dropped into a dock. As a product, it's still both a home console and a portable as it fills all of the criteria of both in one hardware.

Gaming grade PCs always existed even during Super Nintendo days. What's the difference? The PC has always had a higher max power ceiling, with MUCH higher cost. It's the same today. It also doesn't have an integrated controller. The OS is totally open. Adding a graphics card doesn't make it a game console, that just makes it a gaming PC! I already said you can make a PC fit the role of a console by configuring it yourself. A real game console is already configured to do its job of playing games with no fiddling by the end user. You just insert the disc or cart, sync the controller and go. A console is designed to do this job as simply and cost-effectively as possible. A gaming PC is just an expensive computer that gives you options. You can use that gaming PC to play a game, or MAKE a game, or use it as a server, or whatever else you want. And in so doing, losing the simplicity of a de-facto console (like Xbox, PS or Switch).

Yes, I regularly use my PC like a game console. I love the 360 wireless receiver that lets you connect 4 of them, and that most PC games support this gamepad natively. I've been saying for years that that one adapter alone "turned my PC into an instant game console". But it's a PC that I decide to use as a game system, not an efficiently designed, cost-effective, gaming-centric, mass-market hardware. As in, it's not a game console. I can plug my phone in to my TV too, what if you get a gaming grade phone and do that, and have an Android box on your TV? Why wouldn't that be a game console, while the Ouya was? Because Ouya was designed and marketed as a cost-effective gaming device, with an integrated controller, that connected to your TV as an intentional design choice and not secondary option. Ouya=console, Phone=not console. Playstation=console, PC=not console.

By your logic, my Pentium II computer was a game console because I used it to play X-Wing Alliance and emulate an SNES game. And yes, it had an Nvidia card in it, as in it was "meant for gaming".

 

[IFireflyl]

<snip>

I want to be very clear: there is no "my definition". I'm not arguing that a laptop is a console. I was using other people's definitions to show that they were vague enough to include laptops. I think we need a better definition of console in general. Beyond that, I still feel like a docking station isn't enough to call a console a "home console" versus a "handheld console". To me, if the game console is small enough to be played in an average person's hands (let's not go crazy and say, "What about people with extra small/large hands?!") and it is portable (e.g. it has a battery to allow you to play it on the go), that makes it a handheld console. This is the closest I have gotten in this topic to providing a definition. But again, that's just my opinion. I hope this clarifies things because I do NOT think that laptops or cell phones are consoles.

 

[Lognor]

I want to be very clear: there is no "my definition". I'm not arguing that a laptop is a console. I was using other people's definitions to show that they were vague enough to include laptops. I think we need a better definition of console in general. Beyond that, I still feel like a docking station isn't enough to call a console a "home console" versus a "handheld console". To me, if the game console is small enough to be played in an average person's hands (let's not go crazy and say, "What about people with extra small/large hands?!") and it is portable (e.g. it has a battery to allow you to play it on the go), that makes it a handheld console. This is the closest I have gotten in this topic to providing a definition. But again, that's just my opinion. I hope this clarifies things because I do NOT think that laptops or cell phones are consoles.

But you do think the Switch is a console? Got it.

But why do you care so much? You're obviously in the tiny minority here and yet you continue to argue. What's your end game?

Your definition is antiquated. There used to be a bigger difference. Not so anymore, and your arbitrary definitions will be even less meaningful when cloud gaming becomes more popular. Is a ps or Xbox dongle that streams considered a console? Handheld or not? It doesn't matter. Stop living in the past.

 

[IFireflyl]

But you do think the Switch is a console? Got it.

Yes... I've said that literally every time. Including in my previous response to you which you also gave the triggered emoji but didn't bother replying to.

But why do you care so much? You're obviously in the tiny minority here and yet you continue to argue. What's your end game?

Why do the people who disagree with me care? Why do you care about my opinion? How is it okay in your mind that you and others disagree and argue/debate with me, but I'm not allowed to disagree and argue/debate with others? This isn't your safe space. This is a forum with open dialogue and dissenting views and opinions. If you can't handle this you need to stay off of forums.

Your definition is antiquated. There used to be a bigger difference. Not so anymore, and your arbitrary definitions will be even less meaningful when cloud gaming becomes more popular. Is a ps or Xbox dongle that streams considered a console? Handheld or not? It doesn't matter. Stop living in the past.

Again: there is no "my definition". I have not provided a definition. I have provided something closely resembling a definition, but I didn't call what I said a definition on purpose, because I didn't want it to be misconstrued as an actual definition. I have said multiple times it is my opinion, including in the very post you quoted where I said, "This is the closest I have gotten in this topic to providing a definition. But again, that's just my opinion." You need to work on your reading comprehension. Skimming posts doesn't work when you're talking to someone who actually employs logical thought and critical thinking skills.

 

[Same ol G]

Yes... I've said that literally every time. Including in my previous response to you which you also gave the triggered emoji but didn't bother replying to.



Why do the people who disagree with me care? Why do you care about my opinion? How is it okay in your mind that you and others disagree and argue/debate with me, but I'm not allowed to disagree and argue/debate with others? This isn't your safe space. This is a forum with open dialogue and dissenting views and opinions. If you can't handle this you need to stay off of forums.



Again: there is no "my definition". I have not provided a definition. I have provided something closely resembling a definition, but I didn't call what I said a definition on purpose, because I didn't want it to be misconstrued as an actual definition. I have said multiple times it is my opinion, including in the very post you quoted where I said, "This is the closest I have gotten in this topic to providing a definition. But again, that's just my opinion." You need to work on your reading comprehension. Skimming posts doesn't work when you're talking to someone who actually employs logical thought and critical thinking skills.

You did good relax...
All jokes aside you're one of the few people in this topic that is actively trying to have a decent discussion.
You also pointed out that in your opinion it's more handheld than console and that's fine, in my opinion the thing is more a hybrid cause i use it both ways.
I also agree that the definition of a console should be updated, how that should look is debatable and stuff keeps changin.
I believe there will be a time when VR hits mainstream and there will be headsets with the hardware buit in, are we gonna count it as a home console or a portable?
Anyways lots of stuff to think about.....

Also props for keeping calm trough this discussion some people really make it difficult to keep your cool but as long as we remember were posting on a gaming forum it shouldn't be that bad.

 

[Lognor]

Yes... I've said that literally every time. Including in my previous response to you which you also gave the triggered emoji but didn't bother replying to.



Why do the people who disagree with me care? Why do you care about my opinion? How is it okay in your mind that you and others disagree and argue/debate with me, but I'm not allowed to disagree and argue/debate with others? This isn't your safe space. This is a forum with open dialogue and dissenting views and opinions. If you can't handle this you need to stay off of forums.



Again: there is no "my definition". I have not provided a definition. I have provided something closely resembling a definition, but I didn't call what I said a definition on purpose, because I didn't want it to be misconstrued as an actual definition. I have said multiple times it is my opinion, including in the very post you quoted where I said, "This is the closest I have gotten in this topic to providing a definition. But again, that's just my opinion." You need to work on your reading comprehension. Skimming posts doesn't work when you're talking to someone who actually employs logical thought and critical thinking skills.

So why won't you provide a definition? So you can give yourself a way out? If you can't pin down a definition how are you continuing to argue? Based on your feelings? In the end, it doesn't really matter. I don't think video game history is going to look back at the Switch being a materially different video game console compared to its peers. Its success is directly comparable to the Playstations and Xboxes of the world.

When you have Nintendo historically having successful home and handheld consoles it's not unexpected that their hybrid console, which combines both a home and handheld console into one is one of the most successful consoles of all time. It still might end up being the best selling console ever. That is an amazing achievement.

So let's leave it at that. The Switch is extremely successful. Whether it is a home console, a handheld console or something in between is a moot point. We can and should compare it to PS and Xbox. It does not have an asterisk after its sales number.

 

[IFireflyl]

You did good relax...
All jokes aside you're one of the few people in this topic that is actively trying to have a decent discussion.
You also pointed out that in your opinion it's more handheld than console and that's fine, in my opinion the thing is more a hybrid cause i use it both ways.
I also agree that the definition of a console should be updated, how that should look is debatable and stuff keeps changin.
I believe there will be a time when VR hits mainstream and there will be headsets with the hardware buit in, are we gonna count it as a home console or a portable?
Anyways lots of stuff to think about.....

Also props for keeping calm trough this discussion some people really make it difficult to keep your cool but as long as we remember were posting on a gaming forum it shouldn't be that bad.

You're making some valid points. I don't think that the home versus handheld part is important for 99% of people. It's not truly important to me, but I do enjoy debating so I tried to voice my take on it and not take people's disagreements with me personally. Arguing is pointless, but debates help people grow (if done properly). They're also an exercise in civility, especially when you're debating a subject you're truly passionate about. I'm not always perfect at that, but I try to be good about not resorting to personal attacks.

I truly do wonder if the Switch's success is going to prompt Microsoft and/or Sony to contemplate a hybrid console for the next gen. Since Nintendo's generation is kind of in the middle(ish) of Microsoft's/Sony's I could see Nintendo releasing their upgraded Switch in the next couple of years and doing great with sales, but then having Microsoft/Sony release their version a bit later. The issue with that is I don't think Sony's experience can match Nintendo's when it comes to handhelds (even though they have released two handhelds before), and Microsoft certainly hasn't done anything with handhelds.

But it would be interesting to see all three companies move to the hybrid design, assuming they could find a way to get proper performance in the handheld. My biggest gripe with the Switch is the lower specs because of the design, so games tend to (in my opinion) look better on Xbox/PlayStation. I'm sure the Xbox/PlayStation fans aren't going to be happy to find out resolution and/or fps suffers next gen in order to accommodate the hybrid design.

 

[IFireflyl]

So why won't you provide a definition? So you can give yourself a way out? If you can't pin down a definition how are you continuing to argue? Based on your feelings? In the end, it doesn't really matter. I don't think video game history is going to look back at the Switch being a materially different video game console compared to its peers. Its success is directly comparable to the Playstations and Xboxes of the world.

When you have Nintendo historically having successful home and handheld consoles it's not unexpected that their hybrid console, which combines both a home and handheld console into one is one of the most successful consoles of all time. It still might end up being the best selling console ever. That is an amazing achievement.

So let's leave it at that. The Switch is extremely successful. Whether it is a home console, a handheld console or something in between is a moot point. We can and should compare it to PS and Xbox. It does not have an asterisk after its sales number.

See my above post. I enjoy debates. When done civilly they can be very productive. I think it's good to see other views and opinions. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean we're wrong/bad. Obviously the exception is when talking about actual provable facts, but when we're talking about a generic outdated definition it turns out we're all just using our own subjective definitions, and people can discuss those.

 

[Same ol G]

You're making some valid points. I don't think that the home versus handheld part is important for 99% of people. It's not truly important to me, but I do enjoy debating so I tried to voice my take on it and not take people's disagreements with me personally. Arguing is pointless, but debates help people grow (if done properly). They're also an exercise in civility, especially when you're debating a subject you're truly passionate about. I'm not always perfect at that, but I try to be good about not resorting to personal attacks.

I truly do wonder if the Switch's success is going to prompt Microsoft and/or Sony to contemplate a hybrid console for the next gen. Since Nintendo's generation is kind of in the middle(ish) of Microsoft's/Sony's I could see Nintendo releasing their upgraded Switch in the next couple of years and doing great with sales, but then having Microsoft/Sony release their version a bit later. The issue with that is I don't think Sony's experience can match Nintendo's when it comes to handhelds (even though they have released two handhelds before), and Microsoft certainly hasn't done anything with handhelds.

But it would be interesting to see all three companies move to the hybrid design, assuming they could find a way to get proper performance in the handheld. My biggest gripe with the Switch is the lower specs because of the design, so games tend to (in my opinion) look better on Xbox/PlayStation. I'm sure the Xbox/PlayStation fans aren't going to be happy to find out resolution and/or fps suffers next gen in order to accommodate the hybrid design.

I do believe there is gonna be a moment that more power just isn't gonna cut it, i think Nintendo already reached that point with their own games.
If you look at MK8 and you compare it to previous games in the series, it's the best looking game in the series and it's done on a hybrid console.
Same with the Zelda and Mario games they look better than ever, i believe it's gonna take a bit longer for Microsoft and Sony to adapt to this.
But keeping in mind that we need more and more brute force or terraflops for marginally better graphics this is gonna happen sooner or later.

 

[Kataploom]

The problem with not adding requirements is that a smart refrigerator actually is considered a home console based on your verry narrow definition. The fact that the definition you're using says a smart refrigerator is a home console should tell you that the definition is wrong. How you can't see that is beyond me. We might disagree on what the requirements SHOULD be for how a home console is defined, but we should be able to agree that a refrigerator isn't a home console. And yet, you can't do that with your definition.

A refrigerator is not a dedicated gaming device

 

[CrustyBritches]

The context of the "it's a handheld vs a console" argument was relating to msrp of the devices i.e.- "Game Boy is only $90 while NES was more expensive for it's lifetime" or "DS is a cheap handheld compared to the PS2, so PS2 sales matter more!".

Whether Switch is a more a handheld or a console doesn't change the fact that it still sells for $299 and $349 which is right in the range of the XSS and PS5 DE. Years ago(2018?) PS4 with Spider-Man was $199, same for Xbox One S with Minecraft. At the same time Switch was selling for $299 with MK8. Switch occupies the same price point of a traditional console. It's sales numbers are justifiably compared to traditional home consoles.

 

[IFireflyl]

A refrigerator is not a dedicated gaming device

This conversation already ran its course. Previous responses above should fill in the gaps.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

The primary design is the portable console. Just because you give something a docking station doesn't make it a home console. By that logic my Samsung phone is a home console with the Samsung DeX station. The ROG phone is a home console with its dock. My gaming laptop is a home console with its dock. Do you not see how there isn't a difference between those things? All of the devices I listed were designed to play games, and they dock to connect to an external display. You're saying that makes them home consoles, and I'm arguing that that is ridiculous.

Exactly and the Android phones are more capable at playing games, especially if we count the endless emulators and cloud gaming.

 

[Woopah]

I've got a way to solve this:

"Switch is the 2nd fastest selling video game platform". Simple

 

[IFireflyl]

I've got a way to solve this:

"Switch is the 2nd fastest selling video game platform". Simple

I prefer "system" instead of "platform", but I still agree.

 

[CitizenKratos]

That’s because it’s the first home console that is actually a hybrid.

 

[Kataploom]

Exactly and the Android phones are more capable at playing games, especially if we count the endless emulators and cloud gaming.

They are not more capable... if they were, they wouldn't be running out of battery and getting so hot so quick, a lot of them are more powerful than switch but still are not optimized for gaming, the thing of Nintendo Switch compared to those devices is the sustained performance/temperature/power requirements, that's why it doesn't run at full speed.

For them to be more capable/suitable for running games than Switch they'd have to, at least, have a energy/temperature mode that caps their full potential in order to keep sustained gaming performance until someone invent much better batteries and termal resistant components, but phone makers won't give up specs wars for uneducated people.

I've seen some young adults and teenagers that are not the "gamer" type of person being impressed by how my Switch games look, there are some reasons for that: Whatever they play on their phones don't look as good as, say, MK8D or Smash, they're very used to play very simple games with simpler graphics so to them, Switch graphics are still outstanding, and that's mostly because phone game studios won't develop many graphically pushing games due to what I previously exposed, even today, even tho those games are getting more common btw, mostly from Korean and chinesse devs in which countries they have the highest end phones for much cheaper than the rest of the world.

 

[KingGhidorah]

I've got a way to solve this:

"Switch is the 2nd fastest selling video game platform". Simple

there’s nothing to solve

‘Switch is the fastest selling home console to reach 100 million’ is verbally, grammatically, meaningfully, and definitively correct

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

They are not more capable... if they were, they wouldn't be running out of battery and getting so hot so quick, a lot of them are more powerful than switch but still are not optimized for gaming, the thing of Nintendo Switch compared to those devices is the sustained performance/temperature/power requirements, that's why it doesn't run at full speed.

For them to be more capable/suitable for running games than Switch they'd have to, at least, have a energy/temperature mode that caps their full potential in order to keep sustained gaming performance until someone invent much better batteries and termal resistant components, but phone makers won't give up specs wars for uneducated people.

I've seen some young adults and teenagers that are not the "gamer" type of person being impressed by how my Switch games look, there are some reasons for that: Whatever they play on their phones don't look as good as, say, MK8D or Smash, they're very used to play very simple games with simpler graphics so to them, Switch graphics are still outstanding, and that's mostly because phone game studios won't develop many graphically pushing games due to what I previously exposed, even today, even tho those games are getting more common btw, mostly from Korean and chinesse devs in which countries they have the highest end phones for much cheaper than the rest of the world.

They are more capable in gaming alone and it gets worse if we count the other abilities.
MANY cell phones not only have better gaming specs but far longer lasting batteries and as far as cooling goes.... I suggest you look at the Asus ROG Phone that's been mentioned in this thread.