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[Trogdor1123]

I think people need to look at this a different way, the ps4 version is a technical marvel

 

[midasmulligan]

Waiting for the stadia version.

Might as well be waiting for the Ouya version….

 

[Tripolygon]

I think people need to look at this a different way, the ps4 version is a technical marvel

Not exactly. It is running at Nintendo switch type resolution checkerboarded up to 1080p. It looks really good though.

On another note, the game looks stunning.

 

[Lysandros]

I think there is a general misconception about believing that 1080pCB is half as demanding as 'native' 1080P, with the added cost of reconstruction the performance gain should be around ~ 20%, roughly as demanding as native 900P.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

I want to hear how loud the ps4 version is lol

Its nice I've completely forgot about console noise this generation!

 

[Aaron Olive]

No Ray tracing pipe line Decima?

 

[Negotiator101]

It itsn't. I don't know what you're getting at, it's shown geometry and everything else is better and more refined in the ps5 version. lol, what a reach.

Fundamentally speaking I said, I did not say there is no difference, comprende?

 

[Negotiator101]

Even if the graphics were identicle, 60fps on PS5 makes that version the way better version.
Instead of looking at slight differences, just look at the game itself and does it look good?, yes it looks great.

I dont really understand the meltdowns over this, or the silly meltdowns over a MC score of 89. Some of you take this way too serious and make this place frustrating at a time when people should be excited over a big new game.

As much as I think this is a good game and I will buy it, I feel you could probably knock 5 or 6 points off that score if it wasn't a PS exclusive.

 

[Kenpachii]

Not exactly. It is running at Nintendo switch type resolution checkerboarded up to 1080p. It looks really good though.

On another note, the game looks stunning.

That first picture is incredible.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Not exactly. It is running at Nintendo switch type resolution checkerboarded up to 1080p. It looks really good though.

On another note, the game looks stunning.

Jesus...why is friday so far away...

 

[ethomaz]

The game is ridiculous good looking on PS5.

I don’t know how people can play it on PS4 or Pro unless he/she is having a hard time to find a PS5.

PS4 versions has so much cut back… not worth at all.

 

[Swift_Star]

As much as I think this is a good game and I will buy it, I feel you could probably knock 5 or 6 points off that score if it wasn't a PS exclusive.

Source?

 

[Trogdor1123]

watching the digital foundry video and the game is crazy impressive on ps5… wow

Can’t wait to play it

 

[ethomaz]

watching the digital foundry video and the game is crazy impressive on ps5… wow

Can’t wait to play it

Yeap… reading this thread the impression was not a big difference.

But the difference actually is huge.
PS4 versions miss everything that makes the game gorgeous.

 

[Negotiator101]

Source?

You're not playing with a full deck are you? I stated an opinion based off my experience with PlayStation exclusives over many years. I'm certainly not saying what I said is a fact and you are more than welcome to disagree.

 

[SlimySnake]

I think they're all 60fps games though?

The fairer comparison points are other big Sony 30fps single player games. I'm pretty sure they're all native 1080p - although Spider-Man might be 900p, I can't remember but I've a feeling there was some concession there. But generally even the best stuff like TLOU2 was 1080p.

While I admire them for sacrificing resolution in favor of fidelity (something Insomniac and Bluepoint shouldve done instead of targeting native 4k 30 fps), I dont agree with your overall thesis.

AC Unity was a 900p game running at sub 30 fps so its pixel budget was roughly around the 1080p cb Horizon FW is putting out. Doesn't really mean it has any effect on the PS5 tbh. I mean the PS5 is still native 4k 30 fps. It is wasting a lot of precious GPU power rendering pixels instead of introducing new visual features that make it stand out even more. What they have done is basically the equivalent of low vs high PC settings we have had since well, forever in the PC world. The game still has LOD pop-in issues when traversing on foot, let alone when flying. Fog is everywhere even on the PS5 version. Instead of wasting half the GPU rendering pixels, they shouldve focused on better LOD management by utilizing the PS5 IO and more visibility and reduced fog among other things like ray traced reflections or at least ray traced Ambient Occlusion and Shadows which makes a massive difference to foliage quality as seen in Dying Light 2.

What they have done here with the PS5 version is good, but not exceptional. Hopefully, their next game will also target 1440p or 4kcb and push visual fidelity instead of pixels like they do for the base PS4 version.

 

[SlimySnake]

disappointing loading times for a first party game, 1080p cb on ps4 must be first time we seen, nice they added folliage interactivity, hero lightning shows big improvement in some scenes but have feeling quality generaly is not on level of first gameplay trailer that looks awsome

It was 4 o'clock in the morning when I read the bit about interactive foliage and you immediately popped up in my head. I was so happy for you. lmao.

I need to quit this board.....

 

[Hunnybun]

While I admire them for sacrificing resolution in favor of fidelity (something Insomniac and Bluepoint shouldve done instead of targeting native 4k 30 fps), I dont agree with your overall thesis.

AC Unity was a 900p game running at sub 30 fps so its pixel budget was roughly around the 1080p cb Horizon FW is putting out. Doesn't really mean it has any effect on the PS5 tbh. I mean the PS5 is still native 4k 30 fps. It is wasting a lot of precious GPU power rendering pixels instead of introducing new visual features that make it stand out even more. What they have done is basically the equivalent of low vs high PC settings we have had since well, forever in the PC world. The game still has LOD pop-in issues when traversing on foot, let alone when flying. Fog is everywhere even on the PS5 version. Instead of wasting half the GPU rendering pixels, they shouldve focused on better LOD management by utilizing the PS5 IO and more visibility and reduced fog among other things like ray traced reflections or at least ray traced Ambient Occlusion and Shadows which makes a massive difference to foliage quality as seen in Dying Light 2.

What they have done here with the PS5 version is good, but not exceptional. Hopefully, their next game will also target 1440p or 4kcb and push visual fidelity instead of pixels like they do for the base PS4 version.

Again, I'm not saying this is the maximum they could've done, but it's still a significant step towards focusing development on PS5.

You're being disingenuous with these isolated examples like AC Unity etc. That was a game that was widely considered to have been developed for a PS4 they expected to be significantly more powerful. It never ran properly on the consoles at all.

The huge majority of AAA last gen games ran at native 1080p. This runs at half of that, so the base visuals the PS5 can improve from is much higher than it would ordinarily be.

Overall they've delivered a cross gen game that looks way better than we had a right to expect. On top of that, it seems like it benefits much more than usual from native 4k, so people who don't care about 60fps get an additional bonus. You should be happy.

 

[Black_Mamba]

Nice troll

After watching the comparison videos carefully you've found a scene that shows more grass detail on PS5. Is this a generational leap for you? (or does this scene in particular even look good to you?)

I'm not trolling. Sony is trolling you and you're happy about it.

This is the first time in history where they're totally compromising the new generation hardware in favor of the last gen user base. It's even worse because the marketing was deceiving, as they've been promoting Horizon, GT7 and others as true next-gen games since 2020, when it's was actually a PS4 to PS4 Pro level of upgrade.

BTW, I own a PS5 since launch and it's my only platform.

 

[SlimySnake]

After watching the comparison videos carefully you've found a scene that shows more grass detail on PS5. Is this a generational leap for you? (or does this scene in particular even look good to you?)

I'm not trolling. Sony is trolling you and you're happy about it.

This is the first time in history where they're totally compromising the new generation hardware in favor of the last gen user base. It's even worse because the marketing was deceiving, as they've been promoting Horizon, GT7 and others as true next-gen games since 2020, when it's was actually a PS4 to PS4 Pro level of upgrade.

BTW, I own a PS5 since launch and it's my only platform.

You have my axe, Beatrix.

 

[Punished Miku]

You have my axe, Beatrix.

Looks like you got proven right after all the shit you got for it.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I doubt this is cross gen, this might also be a PS5 game downported to PS4.

Its not like the PS5 easily runs native 4k/60 or something. The PS4 on the other hand needs checkerboard rendering to even output 1080p at 30fps. And we know Guerrilla are among the top dogs when it comes to graphics and tech.

Even if this is cross gen, there won't be that many PS5 games looking better than this does (being a 60fps ridiculously detailed open world game). Perhaps something by Naughty Dog. But most developers aren't up to it. So it doesn't say a lot to me, tbh.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

It was 4 o'clock in the morning when I read the bit about interactive foliage and you immediately popped up in my head. I was so happy for you. lmao.

I need to quit this board.....

haha and Im happy for you there is "nextgen" flying in game ;d btw after watching df I little changed my mind, game indeed looks georgous even with crossgen limitations edit: but they shoulnd't imo reduce hero ring effect, I prefer reveal gameplay trailer version

 

[ethomaz]

Looks like you got proven right after all the shit you got for it.

What exactly he said?

Because most of the post in this thread was proved false.

 

[SlimySnake]

haha and Im happy for you there is "nextgen" flying in game ;d btw after watching df I little changed my mind, game indeed looks georgous even with crossgen limitations

Sounds like flying comes with a caveat of poor LOD pop-in. The kinda funny podcast was a bit disheartening. This could explain why GG embargo'd it.

 

[Punished Miku]

What exactly he said?

Because most of the post in this thread was proved false.

It's really just going to come down to whether you think the differences between PS4 and PS5 are significant enough to represent a generational leap. In that sense, I guess the arguments will always continue since people think they are significant, and others think they aren't.

 

[ethomaz]

It's really just going to come down to whether you think the differences between PS4 and PS5 are significant enough to represent a generational leap. In that sense, I guess the arguments will always continue since people think they are significant, and others think they aren't.

It is one of the biggest jump this generation had from PS4 to PS5.

It is not worth to play the PS4 versions… the game looks like another game in 4k30fps… they cut too much in PS4 versions.

Sadly the 1800p CBR 60fps mode looks last gen too

Native 4k 30fps is the way to play this game… generational jump.

This thread early comments are really weird.

 

[SLB1904]

After watching the comparison videos carefully you've found a scene that shows more grass detail on PS5. Is this a generational leap for you? (or does this scene in particular even look good to you?)

I'm not trolling. Sony is trolling you and you're happy about it.

This is the first time in history where they're totally compromising the new generation hardware in favor of the last gen user base. It's even worse because the marketing was deceiving, as they've been promoting Horizon, GT7 and others as true next-gen games since 2020, when it's was actually a PS4 to PS4 Pro level of upgrade.

BTW, I own a PS5 since launch and it's my only platform.

Oh fuck off. Remember when Jim Ryan said believe in generations? And a bunch of you were like "what about timmy and his grandma who wants to play ps5 games but can't find one"

Now stop batching and deal with. Also go find a game that looks better I'll wait

 

[Tripolygon]

Looks like you got proven right after all the shit you got for it.

What exactly is proven right when the game is severely cut back on the PS4 to the extent that it is sub-1080p. Just because the base game is the same does not mean the last-gen is holding the PS5 version back.

Some differences:

• PS4 tier essentially cuts back almost every aspect of the presentation.
• Massive reduction in geometric density, cuts in asset quality, many objects reduced or removed, moss layer completely vanishes, foliage rendering is also reduced in quality.
• Volumetrics and particles are also of a lower resolution.
• Water effects are also pared back, especially when Aloy dives beneath, where screen-space reflections are gone, along with a good chunk of the underwater plant life.
• Up in the skies, Guerrilla's beautiful but every expensive cloud-rendering system also sees a layer removed, with lower resolution formations.
• PS4 consoles using software-based variable rate shading up against full resolution on PS5.
• PS4 is still capable of delivering its stunning vistas, and to be fair, the reduction in far-field detail isn't something you're likely to miss. However, the pushed out draw distances also mean that object pop-in during traversal is far more noticeable on PlayStation 4-class consoles.
• On paper, this sounds like outright butchery but in actual gameplay, what we're actually seeing is a carefully curated equivalent to 'PC low settings' up against an all-out ultra-class experience on PlayStation 5.
• PS5 gets bokeh depth of field while PS4 makes do with a guassian effect.
• Density of light probes is also reduced on PS4, resulting in lower fidelity lighting, while extra light rigs are deployed on PS5 (especially evident on character lighting in cutscenes).
• PS5 not only draws so much more, it does so further into the distance to quite a dramatic degree.
• Remarkably dense to an extent where YouTube video compression actually sells the game short.
• Water rendering (a huge, huge improvement!), character rendering and crucially, animation.
• I'd recommend playing this on the new console - loading times are an order of magnitude faster, 3D audio and DualSense enhancements also work well.

Vegetation and Weather:

• In the sequel, all vegetation reacts to your movement - and that of other creatures too.
• In fact, surface interaction is one of the biggest areas of improvement across the board - grass, snow and sand all move or deform based on both your movement and the movement of other entities in the world.
• Wind and weather also enhance these elements - the intensity of the wind varies at random directly impacting the plants and trees around you. It creates a very active, lively scene in motion.
• When the rain picks up, everything whips around violently while a wetness shader is blended into the material surfaces.
• The weather varies based on the biome you're currently exploring as well - as you make your way up a mountain, rain will turn to snow, for instance.
• If you're caught out in the desert, you'll even encounter sandstorms.

Density, Detail and Lighting:

• From streams to rivers to lakes, surface rendering is a night and day improvement as is the simulation of water movement, with the developers also vastly improving reflection and transmission of light on and underneath the surface.

All of this leads up to ocean rendering - there's a proper wave system now, which also includes rendering convincing-looking foam, based on parallax occlusion mapping.

• General lighting also receives a huge upgrade

Looking at the original game, indirect lighting didn't hit the spot, resulting in building interiors glowing without any form of obvious light source, an effect made worse owing to a lack of ambient shadowing.

This is a difficult problem to solve without something like ray traced global illumination (there is no hardware-accelerated RT at all in the game) but I do feel that Forbidden West II has made significant strides here.

• The first big change to Forbidden West involves pre-calculated lighting.

In the original, six times of day were 'baked' for the entire world, with time of day simulated by gradually transitioning between them. The sequel doubles the number of bakes to 12, increasing overall fidelity as a result.

Areas like small alleys or passages around buildings now receive improved coverage as a result.

• Probe density seems to have been increased leading to improved granularity and more subtle details being captured in the lighting.
• There's also an added light bounce in the global illumination system, producing results a little closer to ground truth. It's not precise enough to handle smaller objects, of course, but it does allow for bounce lighting across larger surfaces.
• All of this is embellished with screen-space ambient occlusion and improved shadows to add contrast and depth.
• The key here is that it's one of the most visually dense and detailed open worlds we've seen to date and many of the key visual inconsistencies in the original have been dramatically improved.

 

[ZywyPL]

The only major difference is the framerate and resolution, either way the game looks good, and people still find reasons to complain...

 

[ethomaz]

What exactly is proven right when the game is severely cut back on the PS4 to the extent that it is sub-1080p. Just because the base game is the same does not mean the last-gen is holding the PS5 version back.

Some differences:

• PS4 tier essentially cuts back almost every aspect of the presentation.
• Massive reduction in geometric density, cuts in asset quality, many objects reduced or removed, moss layer completely vanishes, foliage rendering is also reduced in quality.
• Volumetrics and particles are also of a lower resolution.
• Water effects are also pared back, especially when Aloy dives beneath, where screen-space reflections are gone, along with a good chunk of the underwater plant life.
• Up in the skies, Guerrilla's beautiful but every expensive cloud-rendering system also sees a layer removed, with lower resolution formations.
• PS4 consoles using software-based variable rate shading up against full resolution on PS5.
• PS4 is still capable of delivering its stunning vistas, and to be fair, the reduction in far-field detail isn't something you're likely to miss. However, the pushed out draw distances also mean that object pop-in during traversal is far more noticeable on PlayStation 4-class consoles.
• On paper, this sounds like outright butchery but in actual gameplay, what we're actually seeing is a carefully curated equivalent to 'PC low settings' up against an all-out ultra-class experience on PlayStation 5.
• PS5 gets bokeh depth of field while PS4 makes do with a guassian effect.
• Density of light probes is also reduced on PS4, resulting in lower fidelity lighting, while extra light rigs are deployed on PS5 (especially evident on character lighting in cutscenes).
• PS5 not only draws so much more, it does so further into the distance to quite a dramatic degree.
• Remarkably dense to an extent where YouTube video compression actually sells the game short.
• Water rendering (a huge, huge improvement!), character rendering and crucially, animation.
• I'd recommend playing this on the new console - loading times are an order of magnitude faster, 3D audio and DualSense enhancements also work well.

Vegetation and Weather:

• In the sequel, all vegetation reacts to your movement - and that of other creatures too.
• In fact, surface interaction is one of the biggest areas of improvement across the board - grass, snow and sand all move or deform based on both your movement and the movement of other entities in the world.
• Wind and weather also enhance these elements - the intensity of the wind varies at random directly impacting the plants and trees around you. It creates a very active, lively scene in motion.
• When the rain picks up, everything whips around violently while a wetness shader is blended into the material surfaces.
• The weather varies based on the biome you're currently exploring as well - as you make your way up a mountain, rain will turn to snow, for instance.
• If you're caught out in the desert, you'll even encounter sandstorms.

Density, Detail and Lighting:

• From streams to rivers to lakes, surface rendering is a night and day improvement as is the simulation of water movement, with the developers also vastly improving reflection and transmission of light on and underneath the surface.

All of this leads up to ocean rendering - there's a proper wave system now, which also includes rendering convincing-looking foam, based on parallax occlusion mapping.

• General lighting also receives a huge upgrade

Looking at the original game, indirect lighting didn't hit the spot, resulting in building interiors glowing without any form of obvious light source, an effect made worse owing to a lack of ambient shadowing.

This is a difficult problem to solve without something like ray traced global illumination (there is no hardware-accelerated RT at all in the game) but I do feel that Forbidden West II has made significant strides here.

• The first big change to Forbidden West involves pre-calculated lighting.

In the original, six times of day were 'baked' for the entire world, with time of day simulated by gradually transitioning between them. The sequel doubles the number of bakes to 12, increasing overall fidelity as a result.

Areas like small alleys or passages around buildings now receive improved coverage as a result.

• Probe density seems to have been increased leading to improved granularity and more subtle details being captured in the lighting.
• There's also an added light bounce in the global illumination system, producing results a little closer to ground truth. It's not precise enough to handle smaller objects, of course, but it does allow for bounce lighting across larger surfaces.
• All of this is embellished with screen-space ambient occlusion and improved shadows to add contrast and depth.
• The key here is that it's one of the most visually dense and detailed open worlds we've seen to date and many of the key visual inconsistencies in the original have been dramatically improved.

The game on PS4 and PS4 Pro were severed cut back.
It doesn't look like the same game at all.

I have no ideia where these post in this thread come.

Native 4k30fps mode is something unbelievable.

Maybe they were comparing the blurry and toned down 1800 CBR 60fps mode? This one indeed looks like a last-generation enhenced mode.

 

[Stuart360]

It is one of the biggest jump this generation had from PS4 to PS5.

It is not worth to play the PS4 versions… the game looks like another game in 4k30fps… they cut too much in PS4 versions.

Sadly the 1800p CBR 60fps mode looks last gen too

Native 4k 30fps is the way to play this game… generational jump.

This thread early comments are really weird.

The game on PS4 and PS4 Pro were severed cut back.
It doesn't look like the same game at all.

I have no ideia where these post in this thread come.

Native 4k30fps mode is something unbelievable.

Maybe they were comparing the blurry and toned down 1800 CBR 60fps mode? This one indeed looks like a last-generation enhenced mode.

I'll give you credit for trying your hardest here Ethomaz, but what video are using to keep saying this in numerous threads?, because it certainly isnt the video in the OP.

The game looks great, and 60fps on PS5 makes that version the best by default, but other than that all versions look very similar. Trying to act like there is some generational diffence between versions is silly, especially saying rhe PS4 version isnt even worth playing.

 

[ethomaz]

I'll give you credit for trying tour hardest here Ethomaz, but what video are using to keep saying this in numerous threads?, because it certainly isnt the video in the OP.

The game looks great, and 60fps on PS5 makes that version the best by default, but other than that all versions look very similar. Trying to act like there is some generational diffence between versions is silly, especially saying rhe PS4 version isnt even worth playing.

They don't look anything similar at all.
Play it in 4k30fps and you will not even remember the PS4 versions exists so bad it is.

And yes there is a huge generational jump here... not only me but all others outlets are saying the same... but hey keep denying the reality I guess.

 

[Chris_Rivera]

No Ray tracing pipe line Decima?

Gotta sell the PC version

 

[Stuart360]

They don't look anything similar at all.
Play it in 4k30fps and you will not even remember the PS4 versions exists so bad it is.

And yes there is a huge generational jump here... not only me but all others outlets are saying the same... but hey keep denying the reality I guess.

I suppose a lot of users in this thread are blind then, and the comparison vid is fake. Good to know.

 

[ethomaz]

I suppose a lot of users in this thread are blind then, and the comparison vid is fake. Good to know.

I agree... seems like the case... or just down playing because it is on PS.

Horizon Forbidden West: how a PS5 graphics showcase scales down to PS4

We first saw Horizon Forbidden West at the climax of the PlayStation 5 games reveal showcase, a fitting 'just one more …

www.eurogamer.net

"Both myself and Rich Leadbetter (who also played the game) opted to play at 30fps. Double the frame-rate is nice, but you're missing out on a decently-sized chunk of the next-gen (current-gen?) experience."

 

[rofif]

Me too, 30fps looks like a shitty old flipbook. It's pretty jarring to me now.

Do not underestimate your brain. It is jarring but I will try to get used to it.
I've accommodated to 30fps before. it is doable... just requires patience

 

[rodrigolfp]

Yes, PC gamers justify their 2K hardware upgrades for this kind of improvement and no one bats an eye.

Never go full dirty peasant. I doubt there is a single soul in the world that buys a 2k hardware for just 1 game with just this kind of visual upgrade...

 

[Md Ray]

Hopefully they do a 1080p 60fps mode on PS4 Pro later.

??

When they didn't target 60fps on Pro in the first Horizon game, what makes you think they will for the sequel 5 years later?

 

[saintjules]

 

[Black_Mamba]

Oh fuck off. Remember when Jim Ryan said believe in generations? And a bunch of you were like "what about timmy and his grandma who wants to play ps5 games but can't find one"

Now stop batching and deal with. Also go find a game that looks better I'll wait

Fuck little Timmy and his grandma. If he couldn't buy a PS5 yet in 2022 he's not trying hard or interested enough. On the other side, there're millions of PS5 users still waiting for next-gen content.

I'm not saying Horizon or GT7 look bad. They look as good as other mid-gen PS4 games, like Death Stranding and GT Sport.

Of course I understand Sony's choice from the business perspective and I'm taking the pandemic into account as well, but imo, the cross-gen strategy could've been much better planned and the consumers should be demanding more content now, and not being too complacent.

 

[Mahavastu]

disappointing loading times for a first party game, 1080p cb on ps4 must be first time we seen,

they did something similar in the multiplayer part of Killzone Shadowfall to reach stable 60fps back then

 

[Pagusas]

 

[GooseMan69]

The only major difference is the framerate and resolution, either way the game looks good, and people still find reasons to complain...

That’s objectively not true. Refer to the post above you.

 

[Dampf]

Okay, the difference appears to be much bigger than that first comparison video suggested. Maybe a patch was missing or something.

This is just nuts (from Eurogamer/DF)

Imgsli

 

[ChiefDada]

You obviously had the PS fanboys claiming it looked as good as the Hellblade 2 footage, as laughable as that sounds now it was many posters on here saying just that.

Depends on which aspects you're referring to. HB2 environment appears to be more dense than HFW, but Aloy's character model is much better. In fairness to HB2, game is still in development so model can improve. We'll see.

 

[Xdrive05]

Very impressive for the PS4, especially the base model.

This has to be the most impressive title on the platform, right?

EDIT: I think the means the PC version should scale down very nicely! If you can run ZD decently well, you can probably run this about as well. We'll see how that port gets handled whenever that happens.

 

[Bear*Walken*the*Sweeper]

Let's see this in the final game

Guerilla gonna Guerilla.

 

[ethomaz]

Okay, the difference appears to be much bigger than that first comparison video suggested. Maybe a patch was missing or something.

This is just nuts (from Eurogamer/DF)

Imgsli

Did you use Performance Mode pics for PS5? Because it looks more blurry than it should be in Graphical mode.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Guerilla gonna Guerilla.

This is in the final game.