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David Jaffe to Phil Spencer: 'You suck...... get some therapy.'

bender

What time is it?
But sure, let's listen to the guy that was part of making one good game years ago.
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The hands on approach was not working , now the hands off approach is not working, don't know what else can they can, i think they need a need to find a middle ground, and properly need another 15 studios,
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
The question is not if Jaffe is right or wrong with this take (he's clearly wrong), the question is whether or not Jaffe believes in this take or just knows it's good bait.

The XBox brand is performing exceptionally well by basically every conceivable metric that matters to Microsoft right now.

AAA games that don't get delayed are the very rare exception, not the rule. Everyone knows this.
 

Zeroing

Banned
I feel bad for the person that tied a brand directly to their personal well being. LOL

Especially in the video game space, strong opinions on all sides exist on boards like these. If you had that view you simply couldn't/wouldn't post, cutting you off from any community that you thought you might find. A catch 22.
Don’t you remember the infamous meltdowns threads and posts? What you think that was about?

People take sides! Other exaggerate their opinions, others simple choose not to post.

And it’s not the first time I saw people around here really unhappy with how their own fanbase/community behaves.

Anyway I’m just here to have fun and talk about video games!
 

kingfey

Banned
Don’t you remember the infamous meltdowns threads and posts? What you think that was about?

People take sides! Other exaggerate their opinions, others simple choose not to post.

And it’s not the first time I saw people around here really unhappy with how their own fanbase/community behaves.

Anyway I’m just here to have fun and talk about video games!
Its all halo infinite 2020 and cyberpunk 2077 delay fiasco all over again.

Any time a delay for a super popular is announced, people go down in to mass hysteria, and drama.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
3 of those games dont count. 1 is pc exclusive, the other is consoles timed exclusive for PS, and flight sim is port for console.

So its Psychonauts 2, FH5, and halo infinite.
Why are we counting fight sim twice. I get that they ported it to consoles this year but if we start counting ports, it gets messy real fast. What happens when deathloop gets ported to Xbox this year, does it count again?
 

M16

Member
3 of those games dont count. 1 is pc exclusive, the other is consoles timed exclusive for PS, and flight sim is port for console.

So its Psychonauts 2, FH5, and halo infinite.
:messenger_tears_of_joy:
this thread is about phil spencer, the head of the microsoft publisher, so of course they count
and even if we only count the 3 games, it gives them an even higher score, even though the current score is the highest average ever.
 

kingfey

Banned
:messenger_tears_of_joy:
this thread is about phil spencer, the head of the microsoft publisher, so of course they count
and even if we only count the 3 games, it gives them an even higher score, even though the current score is the highest average ever.
davidjaffe davidjaffe opinion aside, the Metacritic wont do anything for gamers.

My main concern with Xbox/MS was always their hands off approach. This policy is harming xbox, because those studios can do whatever they want to do.

There is a reason why Sony studios behave. Sony wont take a crap from them.

Unless they get rid of that policy, MS/Xbox would always have these issues.

343i is clear example of that. And what is worst is that mojang is refusing rtx for XSeries systems. No way a 1st party studio should act like that.
 
davidjaffe davidjaffe opinion aside, the Metacritic wont do anything for gamers.

My main concern with Xbox/MS was always their hands off approach. This policy is harming xbox, because those studios can do whatever they want to do.

There is a reason why Sony studios behave. Sony wont take a crap from them.

Unless they get rid of that policy, MS/Xbox would always have these issues.

343i is clear example of that. And what is worst is that mojang is refusing rtx for XSeries systems. No way a 1st party studio should act like that.
Yet XBox got flak before for being too hands on, interfering with 'creative' studios. So they can't seem to win.
 

kingfey

Banned
Jaffe is right (ignore the clickbait thread title and actually *listen* to what he says in the clip) and beyond that he's contributed more to the gaming industry than Phil Spencer ever will, big facts.
You wouldn't be on this thread talking about xbox without him.
 

Shmunter

Member
The weird cult like worship of him online, including forums like gaf is embarrassing at this point.

His motto of the games are coming has been his MO since what 2015? And they still aren't arriving.
At one point he played down single player games because MS couldn't get any out of the door and Sony could, so said they were going to focus on GaaS.. because thats what the player base wants right Phil?

Then it was backcompat because again they couldn't get games out the door. It's great don't get me wrong but the only reason they did this was because they couldn't compete with exclusives not because they're the good guys .

Then it was gamepass. After throwing enough shit at the walls finally finding something that sticks.

Now they've spent 10 billion soon to be total 90 billion dollars on nearly every 3rd party they can find because they kept failing on producing first party games and all this does is stop gamers from playing games to nurse Phil's own failures.
Might as well have just bought Sony or at least their PS division, would have been easier.

So yeah the guys a clown but somehow always gets away with it.
He is actually probably one of the best PR guys out there because no matter what he says or lies about people still foam at the mouth for him and want him to impregnated their wives.

He is the ultimate fluffer.

At least Jim Ryan doesn't pretend to be a good guy, the guy is a cunt and a proud one.
To put it in Joe Biden era speak, Phil Spencer, Flim-Flam Man
 

The Alien

Banned
People are arguing about their feelings here.
They seem to forget about these 2 years. Like we didn't get locked in our own house for majority of 2020. And social distance for 2021.
For game developers, that is bad news. They work as a group. So every decision gets delayed, and most work cant be done on time.
Yep. I don't believe its a convenient excuse or 'let's miss a month, adjust and back to normal cuz we can code at home kind of situation'.

I think the pandemic fucked this industry hard for 2 years and we are still seeing the effects - and these games probably aren't part of the final wave if games impacted.
 
There is definitely something going on over there at Microsoft. Launching a new console with no first party games imo is inexcusable. The entire handling of Halo Infinite with it’s mismanagement, delays, etc and now I’m hearing the anticipated DLC is underwhelming after 6 months of waiting. Acquired a multitude of studios and we can barely get a screenshot after years of development from most of their games and now some of their biggest games of 2022 get delayed. To add fuel to the proverbial fire, what happens if these games like Starfield, Perfect Dark, Avowed, Redfall or Hellblade 2 don’t live up to the hype?
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
He is the ultimate fluffer.

At least Jim Ryan doesn't pretend to be a good guy, the guy is a cunt and a proud one.
They are both used car salesmen. Both lie, mislead and obfuscate. Like you said, Phil has been saying games are coming for almost a decade now and all hes produced in the last two years is yet another halo and forza. Last gen ones at that. He had to buy Zenimax just to fill in 2022 and tbh, i dont even think that game should count. it's a game that was always coming to xbox consoles. All he did was take it off of playstation.

Jim tried misleading us about cross gen games for months if not years. he was straight up point blanked asked if gow was cross gen on launch day and refused to answer. He knew. It was cross gen for day one. He ran ads showing how GT7 was a PS5 exclusive when he knew it wasnt. He revealed Gow with a title and a release date of 2021. He knew they wouldnt make that release date. After all, he didnt even have a single cutscene or even a screenshot to reveal the game. But he wanted to show that gow was coming within the first year so that people would purchase his ps5 asap.

I mean he reversed the HFW next gen surcharge after people caught him in a lie, but he still didnt reduce the PS5 version's price tag on the digital store. it was still $70. You had to go to the PS4 page to buy it for $60. Someone later found out that 70% of the sales were of the PS5 version so he ended up fooling 70% of his own consumers into paying an extra $10. This almost immediately after Phil had tried to get away with literally doubling the price of Xbox gold. Neither of these men have any shame. If thats no scummy used car salesmen behavior i dont know what is.

P.S I totally forgot about how Phil once said he wanted to focus on GaaS. I fell for it back then but that was another lie because aside from Sea of thieves, he went on and made single player games the rest of the gen. Bought PG, NT, Obsidian and Undead Labs who arent exactly GaaS studios. They make single player games. So wtf was all that gaas nonsense about? And Zenimax has like 0 studios who make gaas games. I guess Fallout 76 counts as one but they dont have anything else planned with starfield and elder scrolls taking up all the dev time over the next decade or so. He will say just about anything to keep his audience happy and they all fall for it every time. Where is their destiny? or division? Is Halo their fortnite or Warzone? It literally has no progression or end game for a GaaS game. Halo infinite doesnt even have coop let alone PvE. Obsidian is working on Avowed an RPG. NT is working on hellblade an action adventure game. Playground games is working on Fable. Another single player RPG. Perfect Dark is mostly like SP. Gears is always SP with an mp element, hardly a GaaS title. Said the same thing about how the first two years of xbox will be cross gen but only had 2 cross gen games in development. Another half truth.

I am sick of these suits taking over once proud companies. They truly cared about pushing the medium back then. Took hundreds of dollars in losses on hardware. Now they just pass the cost on to the consumer. They put profits over everything, charge us $500 for a next gen console and then shove last gen games down our throat. And then they have the guts to lie about it.

Who do i prefer? Nintendo. They dont give a fuck about pushing the medium, but they also dont bother lying or patronizing us. They get that they no longer give a shit about giving their audience or their devs cutting edge tech, but at least they dont go out and lead us on for years.
 
Yeah, i dont get Phil fanclub and lifetime awards. Perfectly well shipping studios reduced to incompetency and delays after Phil acquires them.

Do people even read this shit before they send it? Some people are so into console wars that they ignore a global pandemic that changed everybody's work/production schedule just to find something to bitch at their least favorite system for. And this person I replied to will be the exact same type of person who will be the first to say when any Bethesda or Activision studio release anything incredible, "Xbox had nothing to do with it, the game was already in development for years. Let's see what new games they build from scratch while under xbox."

It would be funny if it wasn't so fucking predictable and pitiful.
 
WtF are you saying dude? 😐

The guy built foundation for xbox, and took them to next level. Something Sony have yet to do it.

While he hasn't released new games, he opened xbox to a new platform, and made xbox accessible to people.

That is not a salesman.

Salesman is someone like EA, who would literally dry you of your money.

Your hatred and obsession with Phil is weird man.
Really? The 360 was xbox's best gen by far both in sales and in new game releases, I'm sorry but game pass is just Spencer trying to do something in gaming that's already been done in music and movies he's no visionary he's a copy cat with a nearly unlimited checkbook because Xbox gets to spend a ton of money brought in by other divisions in MS.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
How is Undead Labs any more of a mess than the rest of the studios? They're still supporting SOD2 with updates too, and way behind on developing their next game. Seems like par for the course with all those studios tbh
Have you seen the UndeadLabs turnover lately.
 

kingfey

Banned
Really? The 360 was xbox's best gen by far both in sales and in new game releases, I'm sorry but game pass is just Spencer trying to do something in gaming that's already been done in music and movies he's no visionary he's a copy cat with a nearly unlimited checkbook because Xbox gets to spend a ton of money brought in by other divisions in MS.
Look at 1st party studios.
He had the entire gen to expand those studios. Instead, he didn't.

I understand people would like to attack Phil, since he had mat booty job. But why do they ignore Don Mattrick not being able to buy small studios, while Phil managed to buy most of his close partnership, to enhance Xbox 1st party.

Xbox one would have been different, if whoever in charge of those 2 gen, cared to expand about their 1st party studios.
 

Edgelord79

Gold Member
He doesn’t deserve credit or blame for either game’s development.

But he does take the blame for purchasing a publisher without games ready for his consumers. They should’ve purchased elsewhere, if possible.

He bought Bethesda knowing what the progress was on Deathloop (PS5 exclusive) GhostWire Tokyo (PS5 exclusive), Starfield, Redfall, all of them lol…

Edit: So tell me… Why buy them at the time knowing this? Why not make an offer to another publisher/studio and wait until ZeniMax had a steady flow into next-gen?
You act like buying a company the size of Bethesda is like getting a can of beans at the grocery store.
 
Calls him out for his comments on the delay. Compares his own struggles producing a game and says Phil simply might not be good at producing games. That this isnt a one off. See more below:



Harsh words, but I get it. This isn't something new with Xbox studios. It's not just about the delays, it's about the constant BS PR that accompanies any bad news but things never really truly improve. He took over from Don Matrick as CEO in June of 2013. 9 years and $85 billion later, and it's the same song and dance when it comes to missed first party expectations. Not to mention, he had been head of Xbox game studios since 2008. Maybe he's good at acquisitions but not actually managing these studios? Despite a good year last year, Xbox is set to end the first two years of next gen without any next gen games so Jaffe calling him out on this 'We get it' PR is completely understandable. It's like 'Do you really?', 'Do you really get it?'

Link to full stream here:


Phils biggest problem right now is giving developers total freedom, hes doing what gabe did to valve after portal 2 released, it doesnt work, big don gabe himself said it didnt and some kind of management needs to be involved, but ill give phil the benefit of the doubt with covid and latest starfield rumours suggest the game is buggy af, not to sure on redfall
 
Not sure what you mean? XBox is just a series of successes? Kinect 2.0 was great, Scalebound entertained millions, Crackdown 3 was amazing with it's cloud-based destruction, Halo series is doing great under Bonnie Ross's leadership, Quantum Break was a milestone for mixed entertainment genres, XBox is ruling Japan, HD DVDs were great, Red Ring of Death affected five people max, Dead Rising 4 was a banger, Fable Legends was sooooo good, Fallout 76 was #BestOnXBox, Todd Howard can now finally realize with visions with all that Microsoft cash ...
 
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Foilz

Banned
Phil did turn around the entire Xbox game division and Phil isn't the one designing ,programming, developing the games. He just runs the company. If the games aren't the quality y'all think they should be or if there are delays then take that up with the people who actually code them.
 

Three

Member
Bonnie, Matt Booty, Spencer all have to go. Jaffe is right. They continue to talk the good talk time and time again. Like when do we say enough is enough? I mean how are you going to launch Halo as a 10 year service game and have nothing lined up for months? What was the plan here? Now we are delaying seasons? Seasons? Why does she still have a job?

Matt booty has been head of XGS since what 2013 when Phil took over Don's job? How do you get to keep your job after launching with zero games? cross gen or otherwise and then punting the first two years? He was saved by Phil when they bought Bethesda and got two free exclusives for 2022, but the man had nothing lined up from ANY of his 16 studios. 16. and no next gen games for two years. now 24 including bethesda and nothing for the first two years.

Phil has been fine with acquisitions. Minecraft, Zenimax, Activision, Ninja Theory, Playground Games, Obsidian, the man knows how to spend money, but he cant keep stringing us along year after year. At some point, someone has to go.

Get Shawn Layden. He was done dirty by Sony and Jim Ryan. The man knows how to run productive studios. He will go up against Jimbo with extra motivation and just kill it. I am sure of it. Stay away from talky used car salesmen types like Phil Harrison, Reggie, Jack Tretton and Herman Hurst. Go for guys who dont like to talk and just know how to get shit done. I am tired of excuses and being talked down to.
The problem is that having no games at console launch didn't matter, having Halo launch incomplete and prolonged didn't matter.
Phil told everyone their strategy doesn't rely on next gen (curren gen) consoles. Halo got good reviews even if player numbers dwindled everywhere else but xbox fans had that as their holiday game and the whales buy MTXs to keep 343 funded and not hurting financially.

So we may not like the fact that there were no next gen launch games or that Halo is a shell of a game but this doesn't matter to them operating. MS/xbox financially is doing OK. It's like EA, except MS has boot lickers here who distort reality and defend them no matter what. EA doesn't have that at least.
 
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Foilz

Banned
Star field was in development before Xbox bought Bethesda so it being delayed isn't Phil's fault. The man isn't a developer, coder, animation specialist on the project. If star field is being delayed that's solely on the project lead and his team. The same goes for redfall. The devs failed at their job it's that simple. Xbox gamers wanted studios and Phil got the studios.

It's like when a GM goes out and gets the team this great new player , spends all the money in the world for this amazing athlete and then that athlete doesn't produce. This isn't the Gms fault. There has to be some personal responsibility place on the individual (devs). How could you honestly blame the head of the entire division for the developers who are solely I charge of the games not producing.

Granted With the amount of studios Xbox has there should be more games being shipped out
 

kingfey

Banned
Why are we counting fight sim twice. I get that they ported it to consoles this year but if we start counting ports, it gets messy real fast. What happens when deathloop gets ported to Xbox this year, does it count again?
Different systems. That is why it counts.
For example, Sony can get credit for god of war pc.

But those who bought the game on other console, it means nothing to them.
 

kingfey

Banned
Yet XBox got flak before for being too hands on, interfering with 'creative' studios. So they can't seem to win.
That is the downside for this policy. If Xbox gets hands on the project, they will be blamed. If they left them alone, they will get blamed.

Most people would crucify phil spencer, if those 2 games werent delayed. It would be another cyberpunk277 disaster.
 

kingfey

Banned
Xbox gamers wanted studios? Some wierd xbox gamers then. Normal xbox gamers want games. which is why some are upset now, MS didn't deliver them.
???
Studios make games. MS/Xbox got the studios right now.
Xbox gamers saw the road map for those games, unlike Xbox one.

The only issue is that Covid made the situation bad. So anything that was supposed to be released this year, got delayed.

If starfield and redfall didnt get delayed, they would have gotten those 2 games.
 
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Three

Member
Game studios make games. Before the acquisition spree MS had few studios.
Guy walks into a bakery because he wants cake. The store says they don't have cake because they haven't baked any. Guy gets angry.

Some other guy walks in and says didn't you want the bakery to have more ovens? we have so many ovens.

Guy says, not really I wanted cake.

Some other guy walks in and says but ovens make cake.

Life from the eyes of an xbox fan.
 
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