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David Jaffe to Phil Spencer: 'You suck...... get some therapy.'

kingfey

Banned
Guy walks into a bakery because he wants cake. The store says they don't have cake because they haven't baked any. Guy gets angry.

Some other guy walks in and says didn't you want the bakery to have more ovens? we have so many ovens.

Guy says, not really I wanted cake.

Some other guy walks in and says but ovens make cake.

Life from the eyes of an xbox fan.
That is shit argument. Please dont go below that level.
 

kingfey

Banned
No it's not and you know it. Because any sane person is upset that the cake they wanted isn't ready they don't give a crap how many ovens the bakery has bought if they have no cakes ready when they said it would be ready for collection.
The game was supposed to release this year, meaning they had a game coming this year.

Delays happens in video game, same as late order for the cake ingredients delays the making of the cake.

This isnt MS fault. This is pandemic effect, which affected all gaming industry.

So sit down.
 
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Three

Member
The game was supposed to release this year, meaning they had a game coming this year.

Delays happens in video game, same as late order for the cake ingredients delays the making of the cake.

This isnt MS fault. This is pandemic effect, which affected all gaming industry.

So sit down.
Delays do happen but the bakery suggesting when they don't deliver the cake

"You wanted ovens and the bakery got the ovens."

"Ovens make cakes"

Is the daftest deflection for not being able to give you what you actually wanted or said you will get. A cake.
 
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kingfey

Banned
Delays do happen but the bakery suggesting when they don't deliver the cake

"You wanted ovens and the bakery got the ovens."

"Ovens make cakes"

Is the daftest deflection for not being able to give you what you actually wanted or said you will get. A cake.
Look here dude. Xbox had starfield and redfall locked down on 2022.
The game state didnt meet the release window for that year, so they delayed it. what more do you want?

Do you want to bash xbox for releasing starfield and redfall with those issues? Because I guarantee you kids would be screaming at xbox nonstop for releasing the game with that state.

There is no pleasing to you guys other than whining like todlers, whenever issues like this happens.

You guys were the same people who were bashing xbox for that halo infinite graphics.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Has-been seething with jelly, crying for attention. Hardly Microsoft's fault for Starfield, they only acquired Bethesda last year and I doubt they'll mess with their structure in any significant way before current projects ship (unless shit goes totally wrong and they need to intervene whatever the cost).
 
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Three

Member
Look here dude. Xbox had starfield and redfall locked down on 2022.
The game state didnt meet the release window for that year, so they delayed it. what more do you want?

Do you want to bash xbox for releasing starfield and redfall with those issues? Because I guarantee you kids would be screaming at xbox nonstop for releasing the game with that state.

There is no pleasing to you guys other than whining like todlers, whenever issues like this happens.

You guys were the same people who were bashing xbox for that halo infinite graphics.
I don't want anything at all. It is what it is but I found the idea that "xbox gamers wanted studios and you got them" rather laughable when they are upset that they don't have the games they wanted. No sane person wants studios in the same way they don't want a bakery oven, they want the end result that they failed to deliver: games or cakes.
 
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kingfey

Banned
I don't want anything at all. It is what it is but I found the idea that "xbox gamers wanted studios and you got them" rather laughable when they are upset that they don't have the games they wanted. No sane person wants studios or bakery ovens, they want the end result that they failed to deliver: games or cakes.
Your concern is unwarranted as these are the road map for their upcoming games.

TL;DR quick list​

  • 343 industries: Halo Infinite
  • Compulsion Games: Project Midnight
  • Double Fine: Unannounced projects, Psychonauts 2
  • inXile: Project Cobalt, Wasteland 3 updates
  • Mojang: Minecraft updates, Minecraft Dungeons updates, two unannounced projects
  • Ninja Theory: Project Mara, Hellblade II
  • Obsidian Entertainment: Grounded, Avowed, The Outer Worlds 2, unannounced project
  • Playground Games: Forza Horizon 5, Fable
  • The Coalition: Gears of War, unannounced project
  • Rare: Sea of Thieves updates, Everwild
  • The Initiative: Perfect Dark
  • Turn 10: Forza Motorsport 8
  • Undead Labs: State of Decay 3
  • World's Edge: Age of Empires IV, partner projects
  • Bethesda Softworks: Starfield, Elder Scrolls VI, Fallout 76 updates
  • id Software: Unannounced projects
  • Arkane Studios: Deathloop, RedFall
  • Tango Gameworks: Ghostwire Toyko, unannounced project
  • Machine Games: Indiana Jones, Wolfenstein III
  • ZeniMax Online: Elder Scrolls Online, unannounced projects
  • Xbox Publishing: Project Indus, Project Dragon, Project Belfry, Project Shaolin, As Dusk Falls, Contraband
That is what xbox gamers will get this gen.
 

levyjl1988

Banned
Remember that time before Nintendo released the Switch and Iwata was alive, and Nintendo had filler games like Metroid Federation Force and Animal Crossing board game for Wii U. Yeah, it feels like that kind of period, but for Microsoft. Hopefully these delayed games lives up to the hype. Halo Infinite delayed and it didn’t live up to the hype at all, and I most play Halo for its MP.
Such sad times, I don’t care for Microsoft’s other IP like Forza or Gears anymore ans they are just sitting on the Banjo Kazooie Ip, sigh.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
davidjaffe davidjaffe

Been thinking about our call we had yesterday on your stream. I truly think Phil is a good guy but looking at his track record, I think the role he took over from Mattrick had reverse effect on Xbox Division. I think Phil has a great vision like you said for Xbox, but I don't think that vision is based off just great software that gives the division Identity.

Gamepass for sure right now gives Xbox Identity, but it's not Synonymous with Quality and consistent Quality at that. Don Mattrick was a suite, but the guy new Products. Knew when to pull the plug on a product when it wasn't working out. I feel Phil was Microsoft needing a non suit sounding friendly face that developers could confide in on top of being friendly presences wise with Community/Fans.
But his track record with management of Products is just bad. Matt Booty is not that great either, but I wonder if his hands are tied by Phil? I wonder if Matt wants to put more pressure on developers to meet deadlines but I wonder if Phil vetoed it?

I find the difference in leadership very interesting when looking at all the mishaps at Sony as well with Jim Ryan. The guy is a suit, but produces results like Mattrick did. He's not likeable and is someone thats not a gamer centric type of person community wise like Shue or even Layden for that matter.
But he produces results.

Layden had a lot more games delayed, and longer in development under his tenure than Ryan did. I think what needs to happen is someone else needs to take the reins from Phil decision making wise, and just let him be the PR face for XBox.
Let someone else behind the scenes make hard decisions when shit isn't working, and axe projects./positions.

Back in the Mattrick days it was like watching Jim Ryan in early 360 days. Mattrick knew the value of software at launch. Hence XBox one's launch window software was actually really great.

I think Phil needs to take a different position, or his duties in terms of software management decisions trimmed.
 
That is the downside for this policy. If Xbox gets hands on the project, they will be blamed. If they left them alone, they will get blamed.

Most people would crucify phil spencer, if those 2 games werent delayed. It would be another cyberpunk277 disaster.
Yet CP2077 has sold 18 million copies, so disaster only the minds of video game fanatics.
 

kingfey

Banned
Yet CP2077 has sold 18 million copies, so disaster only the minds of video game fanatics.
Hardcore console players are different breed.

Though, Cyberpunk 2077 launch window was a disaster. They could have sold more than 18m copies, if they launched in perfect state.
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
Phil Spencer?

ctVjPAI.jpg
Timdogggggggg is not a fanboy. He is impartial and makes good arguments
Cracking Up Lol GIF
 

kingfey

Banned
Timdogggggggg is not a fanboy. He is impartial and makes good arguments
Cracking Up Lol GIF
If there is one thing I hate about Phil, Its this side.
Dude shouldn't engage with these people. Same with Sarah bond.

I am tired of seeing them talk to these guys on Twitter.
 
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Dick Jones

Gold Member
If there is one thing I hate about Phil, Its this side.
Dude shouldn't engage with these people. Same with Sarah bond.

I am tired of seeing them talk to these guys on Twitter.
I honestly think Sarah Bond is placed to take over from Spencer. I originally thought Matt Booty but his stewardship of the studios is fairly lacklustre.

Provided they don't engage with nasty tweets, I've no issue with it. A stopped clock is right twice a day so if the tweet is level headed or supportive to your brand without meaness it's fine to tweet with the fanboys. You can't expect people to vet everyone before they respond on Twitter.
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
Phil Spencer to David Jaffe:

Think Mad Men GIF
He did think enough to block and later unblock Jaffe. Jaffe is very pro-Gamepass and is right to be annoyed with the first party dripfeed. Of the big AAA exclusive titles since launch (18 months), we have Halo, Flight Simulator and Forza. Proclaiming Day 1 Gamepass for first party isn't impressive when you have 3 games in a year and half and counting.
 

kingfey

Banned
I honestly think Sarah Bond is placed to take over from Spencer. I originally thought Matt Booty but his stewardship of the studios is fairly lacklustre.

Provided they don't engage with nasty tweets, I've no issue with it. A stopped clock is right twice a day so if the tweet is level headed or supportive to your brand without meaness it's fine to tweet with the fanboys. You can't expect people to vet everyone before they respond on Twitter.
That is the last person I want xbox to hire as Phil replacement. She is 100% a yes man.
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
That is the last person I want xbox to hire as Phil replacement. She is 100% a yes man.
There is no real option outside Ybarra (once Activision deal goes through) if Spencer leaves or pushed in a few years. I wouldn't let Greenberg run a bath.
 

kingfey

Banned
There is no real option outside Ybarra (once Activision deal goes through) if Spencer leaves or pushed in a few years. I wouldn't let Greenberg run a bath.
There is this guy who is handsome, and has charisma.
He can bewitch everyone with his tongue.

Last time I heard about him, he sold his game for almost $8b. That guy can run xbox.
 

Arachnid

Member
Delays do happen but the bakery suggesting when they don't deliver the cake

"You wanted ovens and the bakery got the ovens."

"Ovens make cakes"

Is the daftest deflection for not being able to give you what you actually wanted or said you will get. A cake.
But this seems more like complaining that the cake isn't baking fast enough. It's already in the oven, and the acquisitions weren't that long ago. It comes off kind of entitled. Pick up your cake when it's ready.
 
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yurinka

Member
There is no real option outside Ybarra (once Activision deal goes through) if Spencer leaves or pushed in a few years. I wouldn't let Greenberg run a bath.
If someone should be fired is Greenberg, not Spencer.

If people gets dissapointed and desperate is because the misleading -I assume on purpose- announcements of games and dates, when they know they are announcing or marketing a game they know will be released many years later.

The problem is giving people hope in something they won't have. I'm pretty sure many people were expecting Starfield, Redfall, Fable, Forza 8, Hellblade II, Avowed and more for this year.

They must stop announcing games that will be released 4, 5 or 6 years later. They must stop announcing dates they know -at the point they announce it- that they won't achieve it.

Instead they should focus on announcing and marketing games (including exclusive or multiplatform 1st, 2nd, 3rd party and indie games that will be day 1 on GP) to be released in the next -maximum- year and a half, that they already have in beta or almost so they are very confident about their release date and if there are delays will be minimum. Plus this will allow to announce them showing gameplay instead a cg teaser with a logo.

I mean, even in the worse years, when looking at the games released until a year and a half in the future they had at least 3 or 4 exciting 1st/2nd party games, at least 3 or 4 great well known 3rd party games and a couple cool dozen indies, all of them day one on GP. Put that in a summer conference and fans will be more than hyped with that, no false promises or misleading teases are needed.
 
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Three

Member
But this seems more like complaining that the cake isn't cooking fast enough. It's already in the oven, and the acquisitions weren't that long ago. It comes off kind of entitled. Pick up your cake when it's ready.
It's not really entitled when the baker tells you it will be ready but it's not. I have no issue with the delay anyway. I just think brushing off the delay with "but you wanted ovens our manager got the bakery ovens" seemed a bit silly. Nobody wanted ovens. They wanted cake.
 
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One first party game every three months, that was the goal.
So, 4 big games per year, like Sony if they could keep their promises. They're releasing less games after they acquired a dozen studios.
 
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Dick Jones

Gold Member
If someone should be fired is Greenberg, not Spencer.

If people gets dissapointed and desperate is because the misleading -I assume on purpose- announcements of games and dates, when they know they are announcing or marketing a game they know will be released many years later.

The problem is giving people hope in something they won't have. I'm pretty sure many people were expecting Starfield, Redfall, Fable, Forza 8, Hellblade II, Avowed and more for this year.

They must stop announcing games that will be released 4, 5 or 6 years later. They must stop announcing dates they know -at the point they announce it- that they won't achieve it.

Instead they should focus on announcing and marketing games (including exclusive or multiplatform 1st, 2nd, 3rd party and indie games that will be day 1 on GP) to be released in the next -maximum- year and a half, that they already have in beta or almost so they are very confident about their release date and if there are delays will be minimum. Plus this will allow to announce them showing gameplay instead a cg teaser with a logo.
I'd fire Greenberg from a cannon into the Pacific if I could. Beyond useless.
 

Umbasaborne

Banned
If someone should be fired is Greenberg, not Spencer.

If people gets dissapointed and desperate is because the misleading -I assume on purpose- announcements of games and dates, when they know they are announcing or marketing a game they know will be released many years later.

The problem is giving people hope in something they won't have. I'm pretty sure many people were expecting Starfield, Redfall, Fable, Forza 8, Hellblade II, Avowed and more for this year.

They must stop announcing games that will be released 4, 5 or 6 years later. They must stop announcing dates they know -at the point they announce it- that they won't achieve it.

Instead they should focus on announcing and marketing games (including exclusive or multiplatform 1st, 2nd, 3rd party and indie games that will be day 1 on GP) to be released in the next -maximum- year and a half, that they already have in beta or almost so they are very confident about their release date and if there are delays will be minimum. Plus this will allow to announce them showing gameplay instead a cg teaser with a logo.
Well said.
 

ZoukGalaxy

Member
Phil is clearly "not your buddy" despite what's it's trying so hard to make you believe.
But no need to be harsh, telling he suck and need a therapy is plain stupid.

The unknown guy telling this is another random guy needing some clicks and probably already on therapy himself.
 
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Umbasaborne

Banned
Im surprised how many people are "mad" about the delay, that its unacceptable etc....after witnessing what happened to CP 2077 or better yet, most of Bethesda open world are total jank at launch. You really never learn, do you?
Its not the delay of starfield, its that microsofts first party line up of exclusives had been poor for a while and its looking like they literally wont have any this year with those two delayed. This is after they had literally nothing to launch their consoles with in 2020. If these two games were delayed but microsoft also had avowed, or fable, or hell blade, plus forza…then this would be a different story and the delay would be dissapointing, but not a big deal
 

PhaseJump

Banned
I'm "mad" that Phil hasn't given Xbox gamers any Japanese stuff. Better late than never ports of a handful of games like Nier, game pass entries for the few JRPGs we already bought and owned due to drought, nothing mentioned at all for Lost Odyssey's 10th anniversary dates in Japan or USA, now years ago. No windows ports. Constant, annual trips to Japan and feedback saying what amounts to "We hear you" "Keep asking"

Like, no. Fuck that. I'm playing on Steam Deck now. Give me a reason on Deck, to keep my game pass subscription active; Or, step into buying Sega/Capcom/Falcom/Square/ArtPlay/Itagaki, etc.
 
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01011001

Banned
davidjaffe davidjaffe ….your clearly insane yourself 😂

I mean he has a point. how is it that 343i releases one terrible product after the other and nothing chnages for the better?
he's either completely overworked or way to lenient with his teams, maybe because he is too scared to actually be more assertive at times.

something is up at Xbox and the management has to finally rule over their studios.

it seems like everyone is just doing whatever the fuck they want, which sounds good in concept but then remember that the original Star Wars Trilogy was a product of people keeping Lucas in check, while the Prequel trilogy was him being in basically completely control.

full freedom without a leading hand is not always good and can have catastrophic results, see Attack of the Clones 🤣
 

Stuart360

Member
I mean he has a point. how is it that 343i releases one terrible product after the other and nothing chnages for the better?
he's either completely overworked or way to lenient with his teams, maybe because he is too scared to actually be more assertive at times.

something is up at Xbox and the management has to finally rule over their studios.

it seems like everyone is just doing whatever the fuck they want, which sounds good in concept but then remember that the original Star Wars Trilogy was a product of people keeping Lucas in check, while the Prequel trilogy was him being in basically completely control.

full freedom without a leading hand is not always good and can have catastrophic results, see Attack of the Clones 🤣
Hyperbole to the extreme. There is nothing 'terrible' about Halo Infinite.
But yes, Phil does need to kick 343 up the arse for how slow they are with everything they do.
 

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Phils biggest problem right now is giving developers total freedom, hes doing what gabe did to valve after portal 2 released, it doesnt work, big don gabe himself said it didnt and some kind of management needs to be involved, but ill give phil the benefit of the doubt with covid and latest starfield rumours suggest the game is buggy af, not to sure on redfall
A lot of this has to do with a zero crunch culture. Crunch is how games get finished unfortunately.
 

01011001

Banned
Hyperbole to the extreme. There is nothing 'terrible' about Halo Infinite.
But yes, Phil does need to kick 343 up the arse for how slow they are with everything they do.

Halo Infishit is dogshit. everything about it is terrible. the condition it launched in was laughable and it still is in a shit condition.

Shitfinite loses players faster THAN ANY HALO EVER....it has the worst post launch support of ANY HALO EVER, and it has the least amount of features of ANY HALO EVER.
it sucks
 
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Lognor

Banned
Halo Infishit is dogshit. everything about it is terrible. the condition it launched in was laughable and it still is in a shit condition.

Shitfinite loses players faster THAN ANY HALO EVER....it has the worst post launch support of ANY HALO EVER, and it has the least amount of features of ANY HALO EVER.
it sucks
No it's not. I was just playing halo infinite today. It's excellent. It won a lot of goty awards. It is great! Sorry it's not for you. Stick to fortnite Maybe?
 

Elginer

Member
I have hope that next year will be great for Xbox. I own both a PS5 and Series X but predominately am on Xbox due to quick resume and just enjoy the interface. I sincerely hope that MS brings the awesome next month at their event.

The company has made tons of great moves, I just think that fans want see some games from their internal and new acquisitions. It’s not asking a lot at l at from their internal studios like The Coalition. I get that their studio buying spree will take to see fruits.

Halo Infinite, while super fun is not enough.
 

Mozzarella

Member
LMAO
Phil Spencer is doing good job at reviving Xbox to be honest, not that i give any crap about big corpos doing well or not.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
davidjaffe davidjaffe

Been thinking about our call we had yesterday on your stream. I truly think Phil is a good guy but looking at his track record, I think the role he took over from Mattrick had reverse effect on Xbox Division. I think Phil has a great vision like you said for Xbox, but I don't think that vision is based off just great software that gives the division Identity.

Gamepass for sure right now gives Xbox Identity, but it's not Synonymous with Quality and consistent Quality at that. Don Mattrick was a suite, but the guy new Products. Knew when to pull the plug on a product when it wasn't working out. I feel Phil was Microsoft needing a non suit sounding friendly face that developers could confide in on top of being friendly presences wise with Community/Fans.
But his track record with management of Products is just bad. Matt Booty is not that great either, but I wonder if his hands are tied by Phil? I wonder if Matt wants to put more pressure on developers to meet deadlines but I wonder if Phil vetoed it?

I find the difference in leadership very interesting when looking at all the mishaps at Sony as well with Jim Ryan. The guy is a suit, but produces results like Mattrick did. He's not likeable and is someone thats not a gamer centric type of person community wise like Shue or even Layden for that matter.
But he produces results.

Layden had a lot more games delayed, and longer in development under his tenure than Ryan did. I think what needs to happen is someone else needs to take the reins from Phil decision making wise, and just let him be the PR face for XBox.
Let someone else behind the scenes make hard decisions when shit isn't working, and axe projects./positions.

Back in the Mattrick days it was like watching Jim Ryan in early 360 days. Mattrick knew the value of software at launch. Hence XBox one's launch window software was actually really great.

I think Phil needs to take a different position, or his duties in terms of software management decisions trimmed.
Matrick gets too much hate. His tv/kinect vision was dumb, but despite all that nonsense this was his year 1 lineup.

All next gen games.

- Forza 4
- Dead Rising 3
- Ryse
- Killer Instinct
- Titanfall
- Sunset overdrive
- Forza Horizon 2 - A true next gen sequel with the xbox 360 version handled by a completely different team that did not hold back the Xbox One version like FH5 did.

And he didnt stop there. He had other games set for release in year 2.

- Halo 5
- Coalition's new IP first revealed at E3 2013
- Fable
- Scalebound
- Crackdown

But then Phil comes in, cancels Coalitions' new IP, buys the gears IP and forces them to work on that instead. Then cancels scalebound. Shuts down Fable. And buys Minecraft for $3.5 billion and wastes $100 million just to block Tomb Raider from appearing on PS5. Not to mention paying EA just to keep titanfall off Playstation AFTER it had been released. Like what are you doing man. How does that help xbox owners who have already played the game.

Just a string of really bad decisions that left xbox without new IPs, RPGs, and action adventure games that made Sony so popular last gen. But what was most troubling was what he didnt do. He didnt sign Crytek to do Ryse 2. Hire insomniac to do Sunset 2. Worse let them go running back into Sony's arms. He didnt sign Platinum to another deal though thats tough to do after you burn bridges like that. He let Sony take FF7 remake, Shenmue and Yakuza after Don had done so much to bring FF13, FF15 and MGS5 to xbox.

I remember saying all of this around 2017 and 2018, and he finally got his shit together and started to buy studios, started going after the japanese games and started investing in new studios, but as I suspected back then, those changes were never going to bear fruit in the xbox one generation, and here we are and they are not going to have any impact 2 years into the new gen. His decisions in 2013-2015 pretty much handicapped them for the next 9 years. I mean why spend $3.5 billion on minecraft?
 
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Hestar69

Member
Jaffe Needs to learn how to play Metroid and stop crying.The last game of his I played drawn to death (was that the name) was god awful..

covid pandemic fucked all studios up and don't be surprised when god of war is delayed until 2023 aswell,just like BOTW 2.
 

Shmunter

Member
Questions must be circling at MS HQ why they splashed billions on Bethesda only to get nothing in a critical year where user retention is paramount post COVID. If anything at least a delayed purchase would have been wiser instead of the studios now skulking back into their basements on MS time and money.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Questions must be circling at MS HQ why they splashed billions on Bethesda only to get nothing in a critical year where user retention is paramount post COVID. If anything at least a delayed purchase would have been wiser instead of the studios now skulking back into their basements on MS time and money.
Not to mention what this means for Gamepass which isnt just their bread and butter, but also their main target for their exec bonuses. Didnt they say they missed target last year despite growing by 37% last year. So what was their target 50%? How do you increase Gamepass by 50% in 2022 without any day one exclusives? I mean they had flight sim on consoles, psychonauts, forza horizon and halo last year and failed to hit gamepass milestones. What happens in a year when they have no day one exclusives?
 
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