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[SlimySnake]

Good luck with that. A lawyer would spin this as only on their home console, opposite to say Xbox and Switch as PC is an open platform etc. I'm not saying what Sony did isn't bad. I mean they intentionally hid that MM and Horizon aren't exclusive then had a ridiculous upgrade plan for MM then after promising that Horizon upgrade would be free tried to test the waters that it isn't then when the backlash hit they backtracked. BUT it is hard to sue for stuff like this is my point, unless you are a very rich and very bored.

I dont think the OP literally meant he was going to sue Jim Ryan, he's just expressing his frustration at the misleading statements made by Sony.

• Like you pointed out, the intentionally hid that MM and Horizon were cross gen.
• They advertised GT5 as a PS5 game in ads that had clear language for other games that were cross gen.
• They tried to charge an extra $10 for Horizon after promising it would be a free upgrade.
• They tried to pass off RE8 as a PS5 title knowing full well it was cross gen.
• They are now trying to pass off RE4 as a PS5 only game when everyone can see it looks cross gen as fuck.
• Now they are trying to hide that FF16 might not be a console exclusive like it was when it was first announced. The language is conspicuously missing.

That is the core of the OP's issues with Jim Ryan. I mean the guy literally promised that he is going to offer games that can only be enjoyed on PS5 and has ZERO next gen games coming out from his studios in 2022. Zero. We just got done ripping Phil Spencer a new asshole for not having anything ready for 2022, but we are oddly ok with Jim Ryan doing the same just because he released some last gen games this year even though he promised the following TWO years ago:

“IT IS TIME TO GIVE THE PLAYSTATION COMMUNITY SOMETHING NEW, SOMETHING DIFFERENT, THAT CAN REALLY ONLY BE ENJOYED ON PS5.”

 

[Tomeru]

Sony trained us over x number of years to believe exclusives do matter.

 

[hemo memo]

Those games were only on Playstation.

Now they aren't only on Playstation.

There you go Sony, there is your legal defense.

well, if a competent lawyer would actually go after that defense, he/she would say it is a bad one as it was a promise from them that it is ONLY ON PLAYSTATION to get people to get into their eco system knowing that they would release the games elsewhere later.

 

[kyliethicc]

I'm starting to think that the fanboys don't actually like their exclusives, they only like them because it's only on their plastic box. In which case, get a life.

yup it’s why these Nintendo fanboys pretend to like Mario even tho they know Knack is the GOAT

 

[Shifty1897]

Imagine having no bigger problems in life than freaking out over a first party changing their mind on release strategy years later.

The concept of this being upsetting is so foreign and abstract that I'd have an easier time understanding why someone is upset that fingerless gloves or the oxford comma exist.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Absolutely not.
Even the fastest SSDs have a latency of ~0.010 miliseconds.
L1 cache on RDNA2 has a latency of 27 nano seconds. L2 cache of 93ns.
Even the memory of the PS5 has a latency of 140ns.
This is several orders of magnitude faster than any SSD. No way an SSD can submit data in time to render pixels.
And then remember that the registers inside shader itself, is even faster than an L1 cache.
No f****** way an SSD can fill a register in time to render a pixel. Especially if that pixel has multiple passes.

Then there is the issue of memory bandwidth. The PS5 SSD has only 5.5 GB/s. Even considering best case scenario with data being fully compressed, maybe 25Gb/s
The vram of The PS5 has 448GB/s. This is 18 times more than the SSD at it's best case scenario.
How could an SSD expect to fill all those CUs with this tiny amount of memory bandwidth....

Sorry about the vague description on my part. I should have been more clear.

Suppose I have an asset that's several trillions of triangles and I push it to the unified memory to be executed. The SSD can push it but then the data + lighting + texturing + post-FX, etc.. has to be rendered. This would stall the pipeline where the SSD is ready to fetch, decompress, and send another packet of data to main memory but the GPU is busy rasterizing/ray-tracing said data. That's the reason why all the games can't render at native 4k/60FPS. There isn't enough GPU power to do it despite the data being readily available. Consider the UE5 tech demo in how the team never stated that their bottleneck was the SSD, but the GPU. They had to lower the resolution (1080p) and framerate (30FPS).

 

[Nickolaidas]

Keep the salt coming OP!

This is perfect and so fitting!

 

[IntentionalPun]

well, if a competent lawyer would actually go after that defense, he/she would say it is a bad one as it was a promise from them that it is ONLY ON PLAYSTATION to get people to get into their eco system knowing that they would release the games elsewhere later.

Those aren’t promises about the future.

No lawyer is going to touch this shit either way lol

 

[anothertech]

Clearly hasn't played Bugsnax

 

[SlimySnake]

Imagine having no bigger problems in life than freaking out over a first party changing their mind on release strategy years later.

The concept of this being upsetting is so foreign and abstract that I'd have an easier time understanding why someone is upset that fingerless gloves or the oxford comma exist.

You seem to be pretty upset over someone freaking out over a first party changing their mind. Why? You dont have any bigger problems in life than to worry about some guy on a video game forum upset over some exclusives that are no longer exclusives?

 

[Kssio_Aug]

I think they should be more transparent about it, yes. But I think that ultimately it's good that they're releasing their games on PC as well.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Hey OP just sell your PS5! You will get more money than you paid for it...

Then you can go spend $3000 on a Super PC!

 

[Elginer]

OP is just hangry. Have a snack my dude, it’ll be ok.

 

[Brigandier]

You seem to be pretty upset over someone freaking out over a first party changing their mind. Why? You dont have any bigger problems in life than to worry about some guy on a video game forum upset over some exclusives that are no longer exclusives?

You sound like a petulant child.

 

[Wohc]

I think they should be more transparent about it, yes. But I think that ultimately it's good that they're releasing their games on PC as well.

They could simply stop printing "only" on the cases.

 

[hemo memo]

I dont think the OP literally meant he was going to sue Jim Ryan, he's just expressing his frustration at the misleading statements made by Sony.

• Like you pointed out, the intentionally hid that MM and Horizon were cross gen.
• They advertised GT5 as a PS5 game in ads that had clear language for other games that were cross gen.
• They tried to charge an extra $10 for Horizon after promising it would be a free upgrade.
• They tried to pass off RE8 as a PS5 title knowing full well it was cross gen.
• They are now trying to pass off RE4 as a PS5 only game when everyone can see it looks cross gen as fuck.
• Now they are trying to hide that FF16 might not be a console exclusive like it was when it was first announced. The language is conspicuously missing.

That is the core of the OP's issues with Jim Ryan. I mean the guy literally promised that he is going to offer games that can only be enjoyed on PS5 and has ZERO next gen games coming out from his studios in 2022. Zero. We just got done ripping Phil Spencer a new asshole for not having anything ready for 2022, but we are oddly ok with Jim Ryan doing the same just because he released some last gen games this year even though he promised the following TWO years ago:

“IT IS TIME TO GIVE THE PLAYSTATION COMMUNITY SOMETHING NEW, SOMETHING DIFFERENT, THAT CAN REALLY ONLY BE ENJOYED ON PS5.”

I'm 100% with you. Remember that Killzone case that got dismissed? Sure, say to that as you will but in the end, their legal team had to actually work and I'm sure an internal memo about the issue had to be circulating and made them more careful on what to say and what to promise in term of technical stuff.

 

[Dream-Knife]

meanwhile alt-tabbing and background frame limiters;

yeah..

Spoiler

1440p-115 fps - 219w total cpu/gpu consumption

alt-tab, pseudo suspend state 102.5 watts

i've just put my pc to sleep, and back again, and the game works

am I surprised? absolutely no. thank the devs for moder , capable DXGI flip models that made PCs practically act like consoles when it comes to rendering. no more dark days, where games stopped rendering when you alttabed, or when they stopped functioning when you let your PC sleep... gone are those days, thankfully

Thank you! I didn't even realize we had that setting.

Wish I would have seen this earlier, I'd send you mine.

here's a thought for OP
if exclusives matter so much, surely, the N64, which had literally nothing worthwhile to play besides the first party titles, should have been the best selling console of all time right?
oh wait it only did 32 million
gee its almost like it's just 1 part of the equation of why you should get a console, and not the entire fucking pie
nobody wants to spend half a grand just to play a few games

That's not true at all. N64 had some great third party games, just not as many. Battletanx Global Assault, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six, and 007: The World is Not Enough all had superior versions on N64 compared to playstation.

 

[hemo memo]

Those aren’t promises about the future.

No lawyer is going to touch this shit either way lol

Use timed exclusive then or don't use ONLY when have arrangement in the future or make that clear to consumers.

I agree with you that no lawyer would touch this shit though haha

 

[IntentionalPun]

Use timed exclusive then or don't use ONLY when have arrangement in the future or make that clear to consumers.

Games that are timed exclusive often won't even say they are timed exclusive... because, they don't have to.

But in the end.. Sony's PC strategy is newer.. times have changed.. a lot of the stuff being quoted is old.

Companies are allowed to change strategy. They just update their marketing materials when they do it.

I do agree I'd rather Sony have a clear strategy for PC gaming.. tell us how long the wait is, tell us which games are coming, etc.. but.. they won't because they are still worried about the effect on the console business of letting people know ahead of time what/when/why of PC games.

 

[hemo memo]

i guess your definition of "everyone" only includes playstation userbase. interesting, very interesting.

It is a Playstation thread and Playstation games aren't releasing day and date is what I meant.

 

[ClosBSAS]

Op..4 years we wait for Sonys ports. By that time sales are down. On PC, sales have very long legs, they can keep coming for years. Why not make more money, to make your exclusives better. They are still exclusive to PS5 console and no PS5 player will spend thousands on a PC just to play a game that's on PS5.

 

[kyliethicc]

They could simply stop printing "only" on the cases.

They did. PS5 games don’t say “only on PlayStation” and they stopped printing it on some recent PS4 cases.

Ghost of Tsushima’s new box removes ‘only on PlayStation’, sparking PC speculation | VGC

Days Gone and Horizon also removed banner…

www.videogameschronicle.com

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Nope, he’s always claimed the GPU is the bottleneck, and magical ssd won’t make the GPU run faster

The GPU is technically the bottleneck of the system. And the SSD will not make the GPU run faster, that is also correct. A 300000 gbps SSD will not make an Nvidia 970 run any faster.

 

[sendit]

I'm excited to move to a single platform. Day 1 releases of Sony exclusives on PC will nullify the need for me to own a PS5.

 

[Topher]

What I'm getting from these replies from gamers that are "OK" with it is that the game won't be available for the PC after a number of years so no need to stress over it. The only logical explanation for that type of comment is that the game will somehow lose it's "luster" so that they no longer care about it. The same people are saying that if it came out day-and-date that they would leave the PS ecosystem thereby placing major emphasis on time being a factor instead of the actual game itself. If time wasn't a factor then they would be pissed regardless of whether the game comes out day-and-date or 3yrs from now.

Bullet Club already replied to you and what he is saying does not line up with what you think he is saying. I really don't know who you are talking about as far as these "same people" who agree with both these statements you've derived from various posters, but since you know exactly who they are, why not reply to them directly and ask them?

 

[Captain Toad]

Use timed exclusive then or don't use ONLY when have arrangement in the future or make that clear to consumers.

I agree with you that no lawyer would touch this shit though haha

"Only" isn't a lie though.

Right now, Horizon Forbidden West is only on PlayStation. Some day, it will likely go to PC, but for now, and probably for at least another year or two, you can only play it on a PlayStation console.

 

[Captain Toad]

I'm excited to move to a single platform. Day 1 releases of Sony exclusives on PC will nullify the need for me to own a PS5.

Good luck. I only see that happening with Live Service games.

 

[hemo memo]

Games that are timed exclusive often won't even say they are timed exclusive... because, they don't have to.

But in the end.. Sony's PC strategy is newer.. times have changed.. a lot of the stuff being quoted is old.

Companies are allowed to change strategy. They just update their marketing materials when they do it.

I do agree I'd rather Sony have a clear strategy for PC gaming.. tell us how long the wait is, tell us which games are coming, etc.. but.. they won't because they are still worried about the effect on the console business of letting people know ahead of time what/when/why of PC games.

I agree but they shouldn't worry. I mean people still buy games day 1 even though (outside of Nintendo) it'll be discounted months later. I think transparency is a problem that plagued the industry as a whole.

 

[scydrex]

Only difference is if you have patience or not. if you have infinite patience you don't need a ps5 anymore. if you want to play the newest exclusives on release day or asap, only way is on ps5

Also if you have the money to build a PC more powerful than a PS5. Patience and money...

 

[IntentionalPun]

I agree but they shouldn't worry. I mean people still buy games day 1 even though (outside of Nintendo) it'll be discounted months later. I think transparency is a problem that plagued the industry as a whole.

I think they will worry less and less.

They are certainly worried less than their die-hard fans so concerned about their bottom line (TBH a lot of this is just the immaturity of wanting your console to feel more special.)

And they have more data... have been surveying people for years or paying companies to do research..

But aren't jumping to do day and date, and honestly don't appear to be jumping to even release w/i the first year. I think they'll avoid day and date, have games delayed at least a year.. and probably won't be that consistent w/ it either. I bet some their biggest tech showcase SP games will just not come to PC. They don't have to release all of their games on PC for the ports to have good ROI.

 

[winjer]

Sorry about the vague description on my part. I should have been more clear.

Suppose I have an asset that's several trillions of triangles and I push it to the unified memory to be executed. The SSD can push it but then the data + lighting + texturing + post-FX, etc.. has to be rendered. This would stall the pipeline where the SSD is ready to fetch, decompress, and send another packet of data to main memory but the GPU is busy rasterizing/ray-tracing said data. That's the reason why all the games can't render at native 4k/60FPS. There isn't enough GPU power to do it despite the data being readily available. Consider the UE5 tech demo in how the team never stated that their bottleneck was the SSD, but the GPU. They had to lower the resolution (1080p) and framerate (30FPS).

You are correct that current GPUs on consoles don't have that much power. And it's the main bottleneck to reach higher resolutions, or even shading very complex passes. And let's not talk about raytracing.

But the thing with the SSD is that it's not anywhere close to serve as an alternative to vram. Be it in regards to memory bandwidth or latency.
The only thing it does it put data into vram, much faster than an HDD. Truth be told, even with compression, it's average transfer rate is probably around 10gb/s. Maybe less.
But if a game engine does not predict the need for some assess, and suddenly needs to fetch data from the SSD, the there might still be an hitch.
Imagine that a game suddenly needs 1GB of data from the SSD. At 10 gb/s, that is 0.1 miliseconds of wait, until that data is in the vram.
At 30 fps, a frame is rendered every 0.0333 ms. This would mean a hitch of 3 fps.
And I'm not even considering the latency for each data request.

I don't think most people realize just how slow an SSD is, compared to GDDR6.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Marvel's Spider-Man will be released on PC 4 years after its PS4 release, and Morales 2 years after its PS4 release. They have been exclusive for a good amount of time, enough to sel 33 million copies.

Who cares if a few games get ported to PC years after their PS release? More players will be able to enjoy them and PS Studios will earn extra money to keep making more PS5 only games, like Spider-Man 2. If PC players like Spider-Man and want to play its sequel that will be released some months after these ports they will need to buy a PS5 or wait several years and hoe one of those few PC ports to be released per year in the future will include Spider-Man 2.

Bullet Club already replied to you and what he is saying does not line up with what you think he is saying. I really don't know who you are talking about as far as these "same people" who agree with both these statements you've derived from various posters, but since you know exactly who they are, why not reply to them directly and ask them?

Here is a perfect example of what I'm talking about above.

These people place emphasis on "time" to make it OK to be ported over to PC. But will get upset when the timeframe gets closer and closer to PS5 release? That makes no sense other than what I explained.

I've mentioned over and over and over again that the decision to do this was recent and that never did Sony know they was going to port over the PC version of their exclusives at the time they were released to the PS4 (i.e. Spiderman 1 for example). It won't take years to get a port out once their graphics engine has been extended to support the PC (which a lot of studios are actually excited about because they can push visuals further).

 

[VFXVeteran]

You are correct that current GPUs on consoles don't have that much power. And it's the main bottleneck to reach higher resolutions, or even shading very complex passes. And let's not talk about raytracing.

But the thing with the SSD is that it's not anywhere close to serve as an alternative to vram. Be it in regards to memory bandwidth or latency.
The only thing it does it put data into vram, much faster than an HDD. Truth be told, even with compression, it's average transfer rate is probably around 10gb/s. Maybe less.
But if a game engine does not predict the need for some assess, and suddenly needs to fetch data from the SSD, the there might still be an hitch.
Imagine that a game suddenly needs 1GB of data from the SSD. At 10 gb/s, that is 0.1 miliseconds of wait, until that data is in the vram.
At 30 fps, a frame is rendered every 0.0333 ms. This would mean a hitch of 3 fps.
And I'm not even considering the latency for each data request.

I don't think most people realize just how slow an SSD is, compared to GDDR6.

Oh absolutely not. Sorry if it came off as such.

 

[Wunray]

Me reading the OP:

 

[Neofire]

I don't disagree with with the OP I do however think it was foolish to put this type of thread on Gaf lol where 80% of the members are PC players who think any and every game should be on that platform. They are going to clown you forever on this bruh .

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Op..4 years we wait for Sonys ports. By that time sales are down. On PC, sales have very long legs, they can keep coming for years. Why not make more money, to make your exclusives better. They are still exclusive to PS5 console and no PS5 player will spend thousands on a PC just to play a game that's on PS5.

Some of the games are 2 year gap, but that doesn't really matter. Even if it's day one, it doesn't matter. The key thing is if Sony thinks it makes them more money they'll do it.

Most people wont care about cross plat with PC, and if the business wants to make more money go ahead like any other corporation.

But you'll get that group of ecosystem warriors who demand special treatment. They want games walled off because if they notice other gamers on other pieces of plastic get to play the same game, they feel miserable.

They also think if a game company does multiplats, suddenly all the console user base will sell their systems, buying a PC, and then the console base crashes. Even though that game company will still launch that first party game on the console as always, they still feel like shit PC gamers can play it on Steam.

You'd think it'd b the opposite as more gamers playing = more fun for everyone = they can play that game on whichever device it's on = the MP base gets bigger so any online game will have a bigger pool for longevity.

Yet, you get console warriors (you never see PC gamers say they want PC centric games walled off) who need emotional justification a game can only be played on their branded box.

Think of all the other things in life that are branded, and I bet video game boxes are the only thing you get this manchildren attitude.

 

[DangerDiabolik]

Sony trained us over x number of years to believe

The cult of Sony in a nutshell

 

[nominedomine]

I'm excited to move to a single platform. Day 1 releases of Sony exclusives on PC will nullify the need for me to own a PS5.

Jim Ryan will personally send you an email thanking you for allowing someone else (more committed to the PS ecosystem) to get the PS5 that would otherwise be going to you and for your continued support of Sony first party games.

You fell for Jimbo's master plan, he's confident that he'll get you back eventually with PS+ and his GaaS.

 

[Darius87]

Sorry about the vague description on my part. I should have been more clear.

Suppose I have an asset that's several trillions of triangles and I push it to the unified memory to be executed. The SSD can push it but then the data + lighting + texturing + post-FX, etc.. has to be rendered. This would stall the pipeline where the SSD is ready to fetch, decompress, and send another packet of data to main memory but the GPU is busy rasterizing/ray-tracing said data. That's the reason why all the games can't render at native 4k/60FPS. There isn't enough GPU power to do it despite the data being readily available. Consider the UE5 tech demo in how the team never stated that their bottleneck was the SSD, but the GPU. They had to lower the resolution (1080p) and framerate (30FPS).

it's not about how much you can cram data into RAM but how fast you can stream data into/out of RAM from SSD what this does is frees up RAM as less data is needed to be stored inside RAM so your logic that somehow PS5 GPU can't keep up with SSD speed because of high resolution/FPS and heavy RT pipeline doesn't make sense because purpose of PS5 SSD is different apart loading times which actually meant fill up RAM as fast as possible.

 

[Midn1ght]

it was foolish to put this type of thread on Gaf where 80% of the members are PC players

 

[[Sigma]]

I knew from the second they made that Horizon PC release ps blog post inviting PC gamers to join them when HFW comes out lol. Jim Ryan has been doing sleight of hand since his "we believe in generation" nonsense. All he's really being do is slowly following in Phil's footsteps. Just look at the timeline of events. Hermen even on his twitter timeline was gaslighting talking bout how Nixxes helped them with Killzone on PS4, trying to make it seem like they bought Nixxes for something other than just PC porting. They had fans going around thinking well, some game will come 3 or 4 years down the line. Look where we started and look what's happening now. They should have just went all in from the get go instead of this conditioning technique. It's lame.

 

[Guilty_AI]

it was foolish to put this type of thread on Gaf lol where 80% of the members are PC players

 

[Dream-Knife]

I don't disagree with with the OP I do however think it was foolish to put this type of thread on Gaf lol where 80% of the members are PC players who think any and every game should be on that platform. They are going to clown you forever on this bruh .

I would venture to say PS is in the majority, followed by Switch, PC, then Xbox. 99% of the games discussed here are console games, so even most of the PC gamers here are console gamers really.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I knew from the second they made that Horizon PC release ps blog post inviting PC gamers to join them when HFW comes out lol. Jim Ryan has been doing sleight of hand since his "we believe in generation" nonsense. All he's really being do is slowly following in Phil's footsteps. Just look at the timeline of events. Hermen even on his twitter timeline was gaslighting talking bout how Nixxes helped them with Killzone on PS4, trying to make it seem like they bought Nixxes for something other than PC porting. They had fans going around thinking well, some game will come 3 or 4 years down the line. Look where we started and looks what's happening now. I don't mind them putting their shit on PC but they should have just went all in from the get go instead of this conditioning technique. It's lame.

I didnt know about the stuff you mentioned, but I knew they were full of shit the second Horizon ZD PC came out. And Sony playing coy with which games are cross gen (announced in a PS Blog instead of their state of play videos) was the icing on the cake.

As for PC, Sony isn't going to spend time releasing Horizon, then buying Nixxes, PS for PC branding and powerpoint slides going back to last year when people noticed UC was on there and it hadnt been announced yet, just so they could release one PC game per year. And as people suspected UC announced for PC (those investors powerpoint slides give lots of info). Just that gamers wont know unless someone digs into wall street kinds of presentations.

It was just a matter of which games they'd choose to port from there.

It was flood gates open just as I suspected. They just needed ramp up time. I knew they'd release more PC ports n Q3 and Q4 (said it many times). There is no way GOW and UC get released and rest of year is dead time. Spiderman and MM are the games to fill those quarters. Oddly, UC still doesn't have a release date but I'll guess it's going to be a last minute launch so expect June/July. They need to do it before Spiderman hits. If not, they'll release it in between the Spiderman games to space them out.

 

[Topher]

Here is a perfect example of what I'm talking about above.

These people place emphasis on "time" to make it OK to be ported over to PC. But will get upset when the timeframe gets closer and closer to PS5 release? That makes no sense other than what I explained.

I've mentioned over and over and over again that the decision to do this was recent and that never did Sony know they was going to port over the PC version of their exclusives at the time they were released to the PS4 (i.e. Spiderman 1 for example). It won't take years to get a port out once their graphics engine has been extended to support the PC (which a lot of studios are actually excited about because they can push visuals further).

You said the "same people" said they would leave the PS ecosystem if the games came to PC day and date. I don't see that statement from yurinka anywhere in this thread. Also do not see the reasoning you laid out that it will be "ok" because the game will have "lost its luster" or the game "loses merit". That was the point you made and it simply isn't reflected in that post at all.

 

[TGO]

you sayin PCMR is homeless?
if yes then i agree

With all the launchers available for PC?
Sure they never know where their next meal is coming from.
Steam, Epic, GOG and soon Playstation Store.

 

[mansoor1980]

With all the launchers available for PC?
Sure they never know where their next meal is coming from.
Steam, Epic, GOG and soon Playstation Store.

agreed , they are the real peasants

 

[TheGodfather07]

Imagine having no bigger problems in life than freaking out over a first party changing their mind on release strategy years later.

The concept of this being upsetting is so foreign and abstract that I'd have an easier time understanding why someone is upset that fingerless gloves or the oxford comma exist.

Kids. There's no other explanation. If these are grown ass men, the world is well and truly fucked!

 

[Mr. Banana]

Good luck. I only see that happening with Live Service games.

i see this happening with everything before this gen end

 

[Holammer]

Hey OP, instead of getting upset over Jim Ryan and wandering down the path of Bryank75, why not join the Sony PC launcher initiative? It allows you to annoy PC users in a passive aggressive yet safe & non-warring manner. That's right, you could be WINNING right now.
A PC launcher is a win for Sony and a win for you.