StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Can No Man's Sky file my taxes for me?As many assumed, many planets will be created using procedural generation
Yes!
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Todd Howard Explains How Game's 1,000 Planets Work
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Opinion Game Dev
Yes!
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
I get his point but I simply do not understand why this is even necessary. Not just the stuff with the planets but even why the handcrafted stuff always has to be more and more and more. Jesus man, these 100+ hours games are bloody tiresome. Bethesda games constantly got bigger, yet with every game the quality content shrinked and the quantity content grew - and I fully expect Starfield to continue that tradition. Just compare Skyrim to Oblivion or Fallout 3 to Fallout 4. Both sequels got bigger both in random and in hadcrafted content. However, ALL the handcrafted content got watered down. Oblivion's quests and questlines were so much longer and more interesting than the ones in Skyrim. I have not played Morrowind so I can only assume that it was the same from Morrowind to Oblivion.
Devs really need to stop blowing up the size of their games and sacrifice quality content along the way. Who cares about this crap anyway? Rather make it replayable both in builds and in game choices. Would be great for us players AND for the devs probably as well because that way they could make games faster and not sit on one project for a gazillion years.
Devs really need to stop blowing up the size of their games and sacrifice quality content along the way. Who cares about this crap anyway? Rather make it replayable both in builds and in game choices. Would be great for us players AND for the devs probably as well because that way they could make games faster and not sit on one project for a gazillion years.
Kikorin
Member
1000 planets is the least interesting thing about the game to me. I know in real life lots of planets are just empty rocks, but I don't think Starfield is going to be a space simulation, so no need to have 99% of explorable planets basically empty and just outpost for resources. I'd probably have liked more have 3-4 medium size planets filled with handcrafted contents.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
A few key reasons why I think devs go big or go home.
1. Precedent set. How many times has a game studio said their new game is smaller than an old game? Basically never. Even though Starfield is the first in the franchise, Bethesda (UBI, Rockstar etc..) have to keep up with the bigger is better focus or it looks like they are being cheap and failing
2. Keep the gamer playing 100+ hours, which leads to....
3. More mtx and DLC bought, if the game has MP it keeps the gamer playing and buying more mtx
4. Big games like Bethesda games can have mods. Starfield will probably have them too. Community will likely have opportunity to built their own shit on other planets and release them as mods to explore
Gamers talk about console ecosystems, but there's also game ecosystems.... COD, Minecraft, Bethesda RPGs etc... Keep em in the ecosystem as long as possible.
Kagey K
Banned
Morrowind didn't get MS help until almost the end, but Bethesda games have always been large and outside the scope you would expect.
You can't blame them for following trends, as they usually set them and then other games take years to catch up.
Starfield looks to be no exception.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Bethesda has many more years of experience with procedural generation than they did at the time. They also have a significantly larger budget and load more manpower. They've had some of the best artists and designers in the business for years. If anybody can pull off multiple great looking planets it would be them. They've never failed to accurately depict massive scale and make it look nice.
Also, I like that he's telling people up front that there will indeed be planets that serve no other purpose other than the fact you can land on them if you want, and that's actually realistic and totally part of the experience.
Edit:
Who among us hasn't played an Elder Scrolls game and just at times stopped to take in the world or look at a certain scene as time passed by? All this simple stuff is part of the larger experience of a Bethesda game, even when you're not necessarily doing anything. It's actually being in the world and believing it.
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SenjutsuSage
Banned
VATS was vastly improved in Fallout 4, so was the junk economy. It was a massive improvement over what was present in Fallout 3 or New Vegas. The crafting of weapon mods and clothing mods was a massive improvement over their prior games, with numerous visible changes to weapons based on the many upgrades and modifications, enemy combat behaviors and fighting them improved dramatically. You could now pin point specific enemies in certain places and they would properly react to being shot in that spot. There were special ways of shooting robots and there were now special behaviors that gave the player hints as to what would transpire, shooting was vastly improved, the realization of the world itself was vastly improved. The character progression was on a whole other level thanks to the way additional crafting mods allowed you to customize your character's stats and abilities. It went way further than previous games.
They streamlined the conversational bits, which many didn't like, and they took that to heart it seems. The factions in Fallout 4 were the best they've ever been in any other Bethesda game. You could actually see the various factions and the impact they were having on the world. Even the outpost building was a key mechanic as part of one of the factions. Everything was really well tied together. For as much criticism as Fallout 4 gets, under the hood it was one of their most brilliantly made games ever, it just for some people had a less interesting straightforward story, but that game is something special. I didn't catch it originally, but after going back I learned a great deal more.
Negotiator101
Member
You can't really have a game based around space travel that only has a few planets to visit, it just adds to the illusion having all these planets.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
oh hell no , fuck that shit.
Greston Parvey: Another settlement needs our help. I’ve marked the coordinates on your starmap.
none of that shit in starfield PLEASE
Mephisto40
Member
I can't imagine they've spent much time developing some of these planets if Todd Howard himself has come out and said you'll probably just spend ten minutes at some of them and then just leave to follow your quest line, makes it sound like a lot of the planets are small distractions rather then integral to the game
Johnny Concrete
Member
What did you have in mind then? Artists placing stones and foliage on a planet level scale? Have fun playing Starfield in the summer of 2056..
When procedural generation is done right it can simulate nature pretty well. A game like Horizon ZD/FW has most of its foliage placed procedural as well. It doesn't necessarily mean it's all based on an algorithm (like in No Man's Sky), but maybe they placed places of interest by hand and then filled in the void with procedurally placed assets.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
The "1000 planets!!!" hype didn't really grab me. Likewise, the concern over procedurally generated worlds doesn't worry me. I just kind of feel like, "well...duh."
I'm more curious about romance options. Hopefully it will be like Mass Effect in this regard with plenty of wooing and interspecies alien softcore sex scenes.
I'm more curious about romance options. Hopefully it will be like Mass Effect in this regard with plenty of wooing and interspecies alien softcore sex scenes.
Majukun
Member
seems dispersive...which i guess is the point of space, but having to hop on an animation every time you wanna experience a little bit more content is different than jjust pointing your sticjk in one direction and walking like in skyrim or fallout
doesn't sound like smart design...but people loved zelda wind waker which had mostly the same issue
doesn't sound like smart design...but people loved zelda wind waker which had mostly the same issue
Why didn’t you read the OP?
Procedural generation would be used for many of the 1000 planets. The core planets have a TON of handcrafting.
Starbuck2907
Member
And level scaling. Don’t forget level scaling.
LazyParrot
Member
To be honest, that sounds like this could turn into a huge pain in the ass real quick, especially if the game has content that incentivizes players to grind resources.
Spaceman292
Banned
And the next planet is also Skyrim but the trees are purple
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
Big facts! That's why troll posts complaining about procedural generation rings hollow. If you can't simply imagine leaving a world with nothing to do in it, and flying to a planet that has plenty to do, there's bigger problems for you than P.G. You simply lack imagination. And you're in a thread being petty about it when its strictly a YOU problem.
DevilMayFlyForAWhiteGuy
Member
I’m still pretty optimistic about this; I always liked just fucking around on the planets in Mass Effect 1. It wasn’t the best thing ever but just having the option to land on so many planets was refreshing at the time. I have to be in a particular mood to play open world games, but when I do I just want a “Fuckin around” simulator, and if I can have the freedom to follow hand-designed quests and occasionally explore some barren planets, that’s fine by me.
ToadMan
Member
Unlike most in this thread I don’t mind procedural generation if it creates a scale suitable for the purpose - and space is suitable.
Even the 8-bit elite had like 2000 planets - if anything “only” 1000 in this, is kind of pokey for a modern sci fi epic by a major studio.
Elite dangerous has billions of planets using procedural generation and a physics based model that accurately recreates plausible star systems. Yeah there are a lot of ice balls out there - but they were your ice balls and no one else’s because of the sheer scale of the thing.
But anyway that’s elite which is a much bigger game than this - the thing that procedural generation in this game will need is worthwhile dynamic content that provides a reason to use those planets.
Building bases on static planets will get old very quickly, as will simplistic randomised fetch quests or go there kill baddie stuff.
But if they manage to create compelling dynamic content - particularly for the endgame - then there may be a reason to pick this up. And that’s not a tall order, there have been plenty of games that managed fun dynamic content - even indie stuff - so a company with Bethesda’s resources should be able to produce something better than an indie team.
Sadly Todd’s interview here is more reminiscent of NMS than something groundbreaking in story telling. So expectations back down to zero I guess. Either that or he’s an awful marketer.
Seems like the only way to play this game will be on PC and hope modders fill in the blanks Bethesda leave.
Even the 8-bit elite had like 2000 planets - if anything “only” 1000 in this, is kind of pokey for a modern sci fi epic by a major studio.
Elite dangerous has billions of planets using procedural generation and a physics based model that accurately recreates plausible star systems. Yeah there are a lot of ice balls out there - but they were your ice balls and no one else’s because of the sheer scale of the thing.
But anyway that’s elite which is a much bigger game than this - the thing that procedural generation in this game will need is worthwhile dynamic content that provides a reason to use those planets.
Building bases on static planets will get old very quickly, as will simplistic randomised fetch quests or go there kill baddie stuff.
But if they manage to create compelling dynamic content - particularly for the endgame - then there may be a reason to pick this up. And that’s not a tall order, there have been plenty of games that managed fun dynamic content - even indie stuff - so a company with Bethesda’s resources should be able to produce something better than an indie team.
Sadly Todd’s interview here is more reminiscent of NMS than something groundbreaking in story telling. So expectations back down to zero I guess. Either that or he’s an awful marketer.
Seems like the only way to play this game will be on PC and hope modders fill in the blanks Bethesda leave.
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RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
tbf Mods will absolutely have a field day with this and tbh this is where this game could fucking shine come to think of it, can you imagine the amount of sex planets theres going to be! seriously though with a 1000 planets with differing biomes, mods can just pick a spot on the planet (assuming its the whole planet that's been procedurally generated and not simply a large area on a specific point) and add all sorts of hidden content to find, quests, structures etc and really flesh out the universe
Helghan
Member
At first when he said "1000 planets", I thought, wow this game is big. Now I finally understood that he meant "1000 planets of which 95% is pretty shit", just like in real space. A lot of planets are just shit and not interesting at all for normal people. If space travel ever becomes a real thing, you won't see me going to Neptune to take a walk and explore. It's just ice.
killatopak
Gold Member
Generally agree with your post but some disagreements here.
Crafting was improved is some ways, yes, but weapon mods themselves were already part of Fallout New Vegas. They even completely removed custom ammunition which was actually craftable. I liked the clothing mods especially where it they make it modular. The problem I had with it is the power armor. Not only can you use it without the relevant skill anymore, it also trivialized the clothes themselves. I will admit it is cool though.
Yes, you can increase the S.P.E.C.I.A.L stats via clothing but the abilities are still locked behind because clothing stats are temporary and the skills are gated via levels and actual permanent stats. Legendary weapon and armor effects have more impact than clothing mods. The only reason why you think mods have more effect is because the character skill system itself has been gimped in FO4. It was a lot more complicated in the previous Fallouts but in return, it allowed you to tailor made your character to be unique. FO4 doesn’t even have a level cap. You can get all skills eventually which entirely defeats the purpose of customizing anything.
Crafting was improved is some ways, yes, but weapon mods themselves were already part of Fallout New Vegas. They even completely removed custom ammunition which was actually craftable. I liked the clothing mods especially where it they make it modular. The problem I had with it is the power armor. Not only can you use it without the relevant skill anymore, it also trivialized the clothes themselves. I will admit it is cool though.
Special ways? There weren’t anything new or groundbreaking in VATS or robots that wasn’t present in New Vegas. Pretty much most of them were already seen if not the base game then the DLCs. Gunplay was improved but there wasn’t anything else.
Yes, you can increase the S.P.E.C.I.A.L stats via clothing but the abilities are still locked behind because clothing stats are temporary and the skills are gated via levels and actual permanent stats. Legendary weapon and armor effects have more impact than clothing mods. The only reason why you think mods have more effect is because the character skill system itself has been gimped in FO4. It was a lot more complicated in the previous Fallouts but in return, it allowed you to tailor made your character to be unique. FO4 doesn’t even have a level cap. You can get all skills eventually which entirely defeats the purpose of customizing anything.
Hard disagree with this one unless you don’t count FONV as a Bethesda game but as an Obsidian game. There were barely any effect with what you do for the factions in the world. You wanna see a better one? The Karma system in FONV is superior.
captainnapalm
Member
Well as long as theirs lots of hand-crafted content, I don't have a problem with them putting a bunch of empty planets in there. As others have said, that's actually an accurate representation of the stars.
Also, if it's true that Starfield has over 200 000 lines of dialogue, I believe that would make it the longest video game script of all time.
Also, if it's true that Starfield has over 200 000 lines of dialogue, I believe that would make it the longest video game script of all time.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Don't know if wasting time for good content to come by is the argument you thought it was. Vast landscapes to explore with interesting content is always better than a myriad of *whatever* that's been designed by an algorithm. I want good content whenever I enter the virtual world, why someone would cheer for something less than that, I don't know.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Procedural planets don’t bother me.
Level scaling will always be a shit mechanic.
Yup, those of us that follow this stuff assumed right. Even me that dont really know the details, ins and outs of game dev assumed this.As many assumed, many planets will be created using procedural generation
The end product....will just have to wait to see how it works. Procedural isnt an automatic downgrade tho, that depends on other things IMO.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
This is what I’m worried about. Like their train of thought is:
- wow just imagine how amazing and immersive it would be if you had a whole galaxy of planets and you could explore any of them
- ok we created 1000 planets but the vast majority are barren and boring, and the novelty of exploring wears off quickly.
- let’s add some extraneous rewards to give players a reason to explore. Like scanning for resources and procedurally generated quests and shit
- ok now we better design our crafting and upgrading system to make good use of all the crap players can collect from planet exploration….
Pretty soon you end up with a whole lot of time consuming and repetitive busywork that’s not really fun to do, and players will only do it because they feel obligated and don’t want to miss out on the rewards.
oldergamer
Member
I honestly dont know what people are complaining about in this thread?
mortal
Gold Member
Why did they feel the need to have 1,000 planets to begin with?
I think the majority of players would've been happy just to have even 100 planets.
Or as much as 25 relatively large, hand-crafted planets with multiple biomes/regions to explore.
While I can appreciate their ambition with the scale, this could lead to an over-reliance on procedural generation, which might negatively impact immersion and exploration.
I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of the planets are mostly barren material scavenging locations, with some remote outposts to raid and alien creatures to combat.
I hope they pull it off with their implementation, but it's not exactly capturing my imagination tbh.
I think the moddding community will be the ones that end up making planet exploration more compelling in the long run.
I think the majority of players would've been happy just to have even 100 planets.
Or as much as 25 relatively large, hand-crafted planets with multiple biomes/regions to explore.
While I can appreciate their ambition with the scale, this could lead to an over-reliance on procedural generation, which might negatively impact immersion and exploration.
I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of the planets are mostly barren material scavenging locations, with some remote outposts to raid and alien creatures to combat.
I hope they pull it off with their implementation, but it's not exactly capturing my imagination tbh.
I think the moddding community will be the ones that end up making planet exploration more compelling in the long run.
Hugare
Member
I'm still baffled to see that people were expecting them to handcraft something for 1000 planets
Do you have any ideas how much time/devs/money it would take? It's so obviously unfeasible to someone that has at least one ounce of grasp on reality
Todd is basicaly saying: it will be Skyrim/Fallout on the main campaign, and poor man No Man Sky / Mako exploration on those other planets.
No cities to be found there, no quests, nothing more than gathering materials and maybe some enemies settlements
I bet one arm and one leg that you wont be able to explore any planet with civilization in it (like New Atlantis), because otherwise, it would be jarring af to see one huge ass city and nothing more for kilometers.
Do you have any ideas how much time/devs/money it would take? It's so obviously unfeasible to someone that has at least one ounce of grasp on reality
Todd is basicaly saying: it will be Skyrim/Fallout on the main campaign, and poor man No Man Sky / Mako exploration on those other planets.
No cities to be found there, no quests, nothing more than gathering materials and maybe some enemies settlements
I bet one arm and one leg that you wont be able to explore any planet with civilization in it (like New Atlantis), because otherwise, it would be jarring af to see one huge ass city and nothing more for kilometers.
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Kev Kev
Member
there was always going to be empty planets.
i think people were expecting that the only places wed be visiting would be handcrafted and the rest of the planets would just be there for decoration.
i kind of like that they are trying to make those other planets somehow useful. resource gathering is confirmed, but i imagine there will be wildlife to fight, maybe procedurally generated caves to explore, valuables to find, etc.
this is just people finding a way to complain about something with this game. if it wasnt this itd be something else. i have concerns about empty planets as well, but most posts itt are over exaggerated, as people tend to do with everything these days.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
From the company that was procedurally generating trees and fauna in oblivion years ago....they have some grasp.
To be honest the planet searching and base building aspect won't be that big for me. I never really bothered with my base in fallout 4. But making my ship......
...
To be honest the planet searching and base building aspect won't be that big for me. I never really bothered with my base in fallout 4. But making my ship......
...