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NVIDIA Wants To Cut Down 5nm Wafer Orders For Next-Gen GeForce RTX 40 Series Due To Crypto Flood Resulting In Lower Demand, Alleges Report

tusharngf

Member
NVIDIA-RTX-L6000-Ada-Lovelace-AD102-GPU-Workstation-Graphics-Cards-1-1920x1080.jpg



Based on a report from DigiTimes, it looks like the recent decline in PC demand may affect NVIDIA's upcoming GeForce RTX 40 graphics card lineup as GPU demand has hit a new low & is expected to get worse in the coming months.

NVIDIA Allegedly Cutting Down 5nm Wafer Order For GeForce RTX 40 Series Due To Expected Low Demand​

The report states that NVIDIA has cut down its orders of TSMC 5nm wafers which are expected to power their next-gen GPU lineup. The report mentions that the PC and electronics market has slowed down rapidly and Apple is also one of the big 3 customers of TSMC who wants to revise their wafer order given the current scenario. But for NVIDIA, the slowing PC market is not even the biggest concern, it's the recent GPU flood.


TSMC-HEADER-1030x687.jpg



Meanwhile, while AMD has cut down its 7nm and 6nm orders which power its current CPU/GPU lineup, they haven't revised their 5nm wafer orders which means the company remains optimistic about its Zen 4 and RDNA 3 product lineup coming later this year.

In addition, NVIDIA has paid a huge amount of prepayment to obtain more process capacity below 5nm since Samsung’s 8nm return to TSMC. However, the decline of the mining boom came quickly and quickly, and the terminal channel and graphics card manufacturers were full of stocks. The large number of second-hand cards released to the market, and the less-than-expected demand for gaming PCs, forced NVIDIA to adjust its plans and indicated to TSMC that it would delay and reduce the first wave of orders.
In addition, although AMD has reduced orders for 7/6nm by about 20,000 pieces, its 5nm PC and server orders have not been revised, and they are willing to accept price increases. Therefore, TSMC has little response to this.
via DigiTimes

NVIDIA wants to get rid of this inventory to make some space for their next-gen GeForce RTX 40 series lineup but currently, they have two cards playing against them, the aforementioned decline in the PC segment and the flood of used graphics cards from the crypto segment. So it's a pretty bad outlook for NVIDIA at the moment.

NVIDIA wants to cut orders, but TSMC is unwilling to make concessions. At present, the adoption of the 5nm next-generation RTX 40 series can delay the purchase of goods for one season, or even to the first quarter of 2023, but NVIDIA is responsible for finding other vacated production capacity. Customers take over to make up, minimizing the impact.
Furthermore, the report states that NVIDIA already paid TSMC to secure a vast supply of 5nm wafers early on. We had multiple reports on how NVIDIA spent Billions of Dollars to acquire 5nm wafers from TSMC last year but that might not have gone as NVIDIA planned as TSMC is not willing to make concessions to the green team and the best they can do is hold back the supply for at least 1 quarter which is likely why we were hearing reports of a delay for the GeForce RTX 40 lineup. The possibility remains that the launch may even be moved to Q1 2023. NVIDIA will also be responsible for finding replacement customers for any vacated production capacity.

Full article : https://wccftech.com/nvidia-cuts-do...0-gpus-due-to-pc-market-decline-crypto-flood/
 

Hardensoul

Member
So all the 3000 RTX shortages to consumers were they sent them crypto farmers instead?

Now that crypto crash, they still don’t want to make enough for consumers? Or more like they want to make them scarce to keep prices high?
 
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DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
So all the 3000 RTX shortages to consumers were they sent them crypto farmers instead?

Now that crypto crash, they still don’t want to make enough for consumers? Or more like they want to make them scarce to keep prices high?

AIBs were backdooring cards to miners galore. It sucked. Now there's too many cards.
 

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
I haven’t seen a flood of mining cards. Probably soon. I wouldn’t recommend buying the mining cards for any more than $300-350 for a 3080.

Gamers are holding off because the inflated prices and incoming new cards from AMD and Nvidia.

The article states that TSMC denied their request. Good shit. Something the article doesn’t mention is that everybody was getting economic stimulus payments in 2020/2021. That shouldn’t be the case this time.


Let’s hope ethereum continues to crash and burn. They used crypto mining sales to fuck gamers over. Definitely don’t buy these leftover retail 3000 series cards unless you absolutely have to and you get a steep discount. Fuck them.
 
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winjer

Gold Member
nVidia just lost their favorite costumers: miners.
These could justify the super inflated prices nvidia, AIBs and shops were charging up. But those days are gone.
Most gamers can't justify paying thousands of dollars for a GPU, so prices have to go down.

 
In other words: "The customers we truly care about, crypto miners, will not be purchasing GPUs for the foreseeable future so we have no incentive to make very many. To everyone else, fuck you and good luck on the resell market."

Nvda is a crypto scam stock, lmao. Pumped to the moon only on the basis of a manic bubble in something non productive
 

Crayon

Member
Please rdna3 catch up on ray tracing. There are rumors or matrix accumulators. I don't know how that works but I know green has them and red don't. Everything else is good for me. Let me buy your cards, amd. Even if you don't catch all the way up it at least has to be reasonably close. Not like it is now.
 

Tams

Gold Member
tsmc should tell all to go eat dirt.

Of course they won't. They'll be much more subtle. Perhaps locking them into 3nm/more 3nm or whatever nomenculture of nonsense they decided to call it.

Not that tsmc aren't greedy capitalists too.
 

winjer

Gold Member
tsmc should tell all to go eat dirt.

Of course they won't. They'll be much more subtle. Perhaps locking them into 3nm/more 3nm or whatever nomenculture of nonsense they decided to call it.

Not that tsmc aren't greedy capitalists too.

TSMC is also in trouble. Their stocks are down 50%, also because of lack of demand.
Yesterday their stock took another hit, when Samsung announced the start of production in 3nm GAA, before TSMC could start theirs.

These tech companies were making a lot of money because of covid restrictions and miners, but it's over and they are not happy about no longer having such gigantic profits.

 
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CrustyBritches

Gold Member
Via videocardz…
NVIDIA is one of the companies that made prepayments to TSMC for their 5nm wafers. Unfortunately for NVIDIA, TSMC is not willing to make concessions. At best NVIDIA can count on wafer shipment delay for up to two quarters, but it’s NVIDIA’s problem to find customers for TSMC vacated production capacity, which may be very hard given how demand has dropped for the whole sector. NVIDIA is now expected to use 5nm (TSMC N4) technology for its upcoming GeForce RTX 40 series codenamed Ada Lovelace. The company is already using this process node for its Hopper (H100) data-center architecture. The market situation has been reflected in lower stock price for AMD and NVIDIA. Both stocks have dropped by almost 50% in just 6 months time.
So it looks like TSMC denied Nvidia’s request for a production reduction, and only allowed the delay on the condition that Nvidia finds replacement customers for the lost capacity, which probably won’t happen. Fuck Nvidia.
 

Tams

Gold Member
TSMC is also in trouble. Their stocks are down 50%, also because of lack of demand.
Yesterday their stock took another hit, when Samsung announced the start of production in 3nm GAA, before TSMC could start theirs.

TSMC-SHARE-PRICE-JUNE-30-2022-1030x694.png


These tech companies were making a lot of money because of covid restrictions and miners, but it's over and they are not happy about no longer having such gigantic profits.

Both will be fine in the end. The stock market is just being the stock market.

tsmc are in a better position though because a) there still is high demand for their products, though it can't be realised at the drop of a hat and b) they are a manufacturer for others, so can contractually hold their customers to their commitments c) Samsung's 5nm was mediocre.

Samsung need their 3nm to do well.
 
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winjer

Gold Member
Both will be fine in the end. The stock market is just being the stock market.

tsmc are in a better position though because a) there still is high demand for their products, though it can't be realised at the drop of a hat and b) Samsung's 5nm was mediocre.

Samsung need their 3nm to do well.

I'm not saying TSMC or nVidia are going bankrupt, only that they are having trouble accepting that they can't have such huge profits as in the last 2 years.
 
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Tams

Gold Member
I'm not saying TSMC or nVidia are going bankrupt, only that they are having trouble accepting that they can't have such huge profits as in the last 2 years.
Yes, but TSMC have at most commitments to buy silicon ingots and other raw materials. Most of those can be kept for quite a long while and are used for most of their products. They could lower their future purchases of materials to make up for that (though I doubt they will, as then they'd be fighting for them in the future).

nVidia have a purchase commitment that is time constrained, for a resource that is non-trivial for either them or someone else (to take their place) to adapt to.
 

Mattdaddy

Gold Member
Im dumb can someone explain what this means to me as a consumer that was planning on trying to get a 4090 or 4080 this year?

Did I read that right they might push the 4000s back to fall of 2023?!? Fuckin hell do I just bite the bullet and get a 3080. I aint waiting that long for an upgrade.
 

ToTTenTranz

Banned
Now that crypto crash, they still don’t want to make enough for consumers? Or more like they want to make them scarce to keep prices high?
With all the used RTX 30 cards flooding the 2nd-hand market for highly discounted prices, they know they can't sell nearly as many RTX 40 as they predicted, and they don't want to revise their earnings predictions like they had to do after the 2018 cryptocrash.


But the 2017-18 cryptocraze lasted for a little over 3 months, whereas this time it lasted for almost 20 months. That's 20 months of selling mid, high and top-end GPUs almost exclusively to miners. And those tens of millions of cards are all flooding the used market.
This is going to hurt them a lot more than it did in 2018, and TSMC already told them they can't downsize their N5 waffer orders. What TSMC said they'd do is postpone the N5 RTX40 chips delivery by two quarters, and that's likely what Nvidia will do.




Honestly, this serves them right after focusing on miners instead of gamers. Miners buy as many cards as they possibly can but will immediately sell their GPUs the moment they become non-profitable, whereas PC gamers have a known cadence of upgrading GPUs every 2-3 years.
AMD is also at fault here, though at a smaller scale.
Truth is they all should have put more effort into providing volume for the audience that supported their companies throughout the years. They also forgot that gamers carry brand loyalty whereas miners are stone cold B2Bs. Again, serves them right.
 
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winjer

Gold Member
Less videocards means more consoles?

These cards are in N5 process node. Consoles are still in N7. So it makes no difference for consoles if nvidia is not using it's allocation.
The advantage is that since CPUs and GPUs are moving away from N7, into N5, there are more waffers left to make chips for consoles.
 
In two years all these new fabs will be completed and they will be paving roads with video cards because there is so much supply they don't know what to do with it. AMD and Nvidia will report horrible earnings because they have to sell chips so cheap to get rid of them. Then they will dial back production and supply with shrink, and then.........

This is how it always works. With everything.

Ok I guess I was off by a year and a half, but still.
 

ToTTenTranz

Banned
Less videocards means more consoles?
I don't think people are getting the right message here.

There will not be a lack of PC GPUs in the coming months/year. It's not going to be hard for a consumer to find good GPUs for the price.

There's going to be a massive excess of PC GPUs in the market, a lot more than the amount people are willing to buy. They'd been ramping up production as much as they could, so there are now warehouses full of RTX3060/3070/3080/3090 that aren't getting sold. All those new RTX30 cards will now have to compete with the 2nd-hand RTX20 and RTX30 cards that miners will be dropping in volume. And if things keep going this way Nvidia will still have those warehouses full of RTX30 cards by the time the RTX40 cards are planned to launch in October/November.


Nvidia and its partners are simply trying their best to avoid piling up unsold GPUs in their warehouses, but that won't stop them from having to cut down their predicted profit margins on every GPU sold.
This will be their problem, not the consumers'.
 
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