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Why don't people who hate 30fps get a PC already

cortadew

Member
Thanks, i already did. After seeing how 30fps became the standard again with 7th gen, i promised myself i won't return to consoles ever again. So the 360 slim is officially the last console i ever bought.

No regrets though. Ever since then, i play every multiplatform at 60fps and better visuals than what console users get. I do miss some good exclusives like Bloodborne and Shadow of Colossus Remaster but otherwise i'm golden.
You should play Bloodborne it's fantastic
 

KyoZz

Tag, you're it.
Already done the research. I’m not about throwing money away for nothing of value. Gaming performance from 16GB to 32GB is nothing.
Again we are not talking about value. Of course if you have a limited budget DDR5 is not the option.

I mean, you think future proofing is real. It’s not. This industry moves way too quickly.
Yeah and the RAM is the slowest moving thing. I remember buying 16gb RAM in 2012 and it was the best choice I made. I ended keeping them until last year and if I could, that PC would still be running with the same RAM.
I want to do the same for this new PC. I'm gonna buy 64gb (overkill now but remember we are not talking about price, just the best thing available) and keep them for at least 6/7 years.

"Obsolete in the way it won't run newly released games at max settings."

let me refute this the.

i will go with 4790k and ddr3, since it is one of the pinnacle DDR3 CPUs.

firstly, can you elaborate "won't run"? for example for me, if its a TPS game and you're able to get a locked 30 perfectly, it "ran". first, i need to hear your terms for it. (i wont refute it however. it is subjective.) (30 fps for tps games and 60 fps for fps games, for extra detail)
I want 100+FPS at least without any compromise, or some useless RTX off if I really need to. That's why I'm staying @1440p/144Hz for now.
If I wanted 30FPS I would buy a PS5 and wouldn't bother with a gaming PC... But to each their own 🤷‍♂️

secondly, after stating the definition of "being able to run", i would like to ask you games where you may think that a 4790k ddr3 rig could not handle max settings solely because of CPU performance per your DEFINITION of being able to "handle it" (mind you, its a strong CPU, and ddr3 wont hamper it. even a gtx 1080ti will most likely be the bottleneck for most new games. so beforehand, do your research or make your estimations based on the fact that I will try to find videos where 4790k is paired with newgen GPUs. because if its performance is limited by GPU, we cannot take that a a serious way to gauge its performance. as i said, a gtx 1080ti cannot even maxout ac valhalla / cyberpunk at 1080p and will drop frames below 60. so it is important to set the rules, expectations and definitions first.
Ok we are talking max settings @100FPS: Some heavy CPU things I play like Total War games? Prehistoric Kingdom? Star Citizen etc... just to name a few. And then you take into account that we are starting to see real next gen games.
So in the future, this phenomenon will keep getting worse and worse.
 
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yamaci17

Member
Again we are not talking about value. Of course if you have a limited budget DDR5 is not the option.


Yeah and the RAM is the slowest moving thing. I remember buying 16gb RAM in 2012 and it was the best choice I made. I ended keeping them until last year and if I could, that PC would still be running with the same RAM.
I want to do the same for this new PC. I'm gonna buy 64gb (overkill now but remember we are not talking about price, just the best thing available) and keep them for at least 6/7 years.


I want 100+FPS at least without any compromise, or some useless RTX off if I really need to. That's why I'm staying @1440p/144Hz for now.
If I wanted 30FPS I would buy a PS5 and wouldn't bother with a gaming PC... But to each their own 🤷‍♂️

i just gave 30 fps as a bare minimum playable example. though, i would also shoot for 60 fps

100 fps+ however is too much. no cpu + ddr5 cpu combo currently exists that can do what you want on flight sim or star citizen. on new york, most systems will hover around or drop below 60 even with fastest ddr5+12th gen intel chip you can find



this doesn't look too hot



this also seems like a faar far cry from 100+ fps

this is practically the kind of performance you get on a 5900x+highly tuned ddr4 4000 mhz kits anyways....

doesn't look like much "future proofed" to me, if you're into such games (for reference i do actually enjoy flight sim at 30 fps and that does not bother me)

how much perf. difference currently max ddr5 have over max ddr4? honestly asking?

by the time the actual real difference maker ddr5 kits arrive, you will likely have to change your entire mobo, CPU anyways. just like how it happened with , 4790k, 7700k and 8700k. CPU performance improvements far outweights RAM bandwidth improvements.

you can practically DESTROY, DECIMATE and KILL Ryzen 1nd/2nd gen CPUs that run 3600 MHz kits with a puny Ryzen 5600x barely running on 2133 MHz RAMs. that's true, and my friend even did benchmarks to prove it. not only the old gen CPUs are unable to catch up with 5600x with a whopping %68 faster memory, they can't even get close to it.

3-4 years into the future, a hypotatical 17 thgen i7 CPU which will %1000 not supported by your mobo because of sketchy intel socket approach will most likely destroy your current CPU by %65-80 raw power which you will never be able to compensate with any kind of RAM. to a point where you will just feel compelled to get a new mobo + cpu. at that point, understand me that DDR5 will also be more mature by that time, kits that will be easily running 10000 MHz will be around, while your starter kit DDR5 rams will be considered old and barely push 7000 Mhz with weird overclock, just like how it initially happened with 2133-2400 MHz DDR5 Kits. they can'T even throw a shade over 3600-4000 MHz DDR4 kits nowadays.

so in the end, you could've simply bought the cheaper ddr4 now, and invest into a new mobo/ddr5 ram later when it matured. but it is just a suggestion. you can also do whatever you want of course. you just remind me of early 2133 mhz ddr4 adapters who had to get new and improved ddr4 kits later into the gen

it is like getting a 2133 mhz 7700k ddr4 combo which completely fails you: here's how

you built 2133 mhz 7700k z270 combo

4 years later, 10900k + 4000 mhz z390 combo exists.

your 2133 mhz ram became unusable, a waste. your cpu also became a waste. mobo too.

you could, theoritically, get the new shiny 4000 mhz rams and try to make it work with your 7700k (which will most likely won't work or need tuning, because 7700k was never designed to work good with anything above 3000+ its imc is poor compared to later gen intel cpus.) even then, going from 2133 to 4000 barely pushed you to the 8700k overclocked performance region, which is a far cry from 10900k + 4000 mhz performance region...
 
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Hohenheim

Member
I've mainly been a console gamer since the NES (had one "gaming" PC around 2003, which was quite powerful for its time, but definitly not the huge difference from the consoles back then, compared to high-end gaming pc's and consoles today).

While I'm enjoying the couch gaming and easy set ups with my consoles, i'm lately been drawn into the PC space. Both because of higher framerates and general performance in gaming, but also because my current lap top (six years old) is really starting to show its limitations when working with heavy plug ins in my DAW etc. During those six years I have not used that laptop for any serious gaming, mostly because of the limitations in the specs, and because im used to the easy and comfy world of consoles.

I've done quite a bit of research for a new PC now, and consider jumping into it. Building my own is a step too far for my console mind, so GAF, what do you think about buying a pre-build PC with these specs:
  • Intel Core i9-12900K
  • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080
  • 32 GB DDR4 RAM, 2 TB SSD
Would this be a future proof investment now, or would it be better to wait for the next cards? This rig can of course be updated in the future.

Also considering a gaming laptop with these specs:

  • AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800H
  • GeForce RTX 3070, QHD 165Hz
  • 16 GB DDR4 RAM, 1000 GB SSD
Music production and gaming will be the main use.

Sorry for the rambling here, appreciate any tips and advice!
 

Guilty_AI

Member
I've done quite a bit of research for a new PC now, and consider jumping into it. Building my own is a step too far for my console mind, so GAF, what do you think about buying a pre-build PC with these specs:
  • Intel Core i9-12900K
  • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080
  • 32 GB DDR4 RAM, 2 TB SSD
Would this be a future proof investment now, or would it be better to wait for the next cards? This rig can of course be updated in the future.
This build is good for the rest of the gen, but waiting for new cards would of course be beneficial.

Also considering a gaming laptop with these specs:

  • AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800H
  • GeForce RTX 3070, QHD 165Hz
  • 16 GB DDR4 RAM, 1000 GB SSD
Music production and gaming will be the main use.

Sorry for the rambling here, appreciate any tips and advice!
High-end laptops will usually underperform when compared with its desktop counterparts, but this also should be good for this gen regardless.
Picking one or another is really a matter of whether you'd prefer to prioritize the convenience of a laptop or more power with a desktop.
 

KyoZz

Tag, you're it.
i just gave 30 fps as a bare minimum playable example. though, i would also shoot for 60 fps

100 fps+ however is too much. no cpu + ddr5 cpu combo currently exists that can do what you want on flight sim or star citizen. on new york, most systems will hover around or drop below 60 even with fastest ddr5+12th gen intel chip you can find
That's why I want that sweet 4080 or 4090, haven't decided just yet.
this doesn't look too hot


this also seems like a faar far cry from 100+ fps
Yeah and perf is even worse with your CPU. I don't know what you are trying to prove here hopnnestly.
this is practically the kind of performance you get on a 5900x+highly tuned ddr4 4000 mhz kits anyways....

doesn't look like much "future proofed" to me, if you're into such games (for reference i do actually enjoy flight sim at 30 fps and that does not bother me)

how much perf. difference currently max ddr5 have over max ddr4? honestly asking?

by the time the actual real difference maker ddr5 kits arrive, you will likely have to change your entire mobo, CPU anyways. just like how it happened with , 4790k, 7700k and 8700k. CPU performance improvements far outweights RAM bandwidth improvements.

you can practically DESTROY, DECIMATE and KILL Ryzen 1nd/2nd gen CPUs that run 3600 MHz kits with a puny Ryzen 5600x barely running on 2133 MHz RAMs. that's true, and my friend even did benchmarks to prove it. not only the old gen CPUs are unable to catch up with 5600x with a whopping %68 faster memory, they can't even get close to it.

3-4 years into the future, a hypotatical 17 thgen i7 CPU which will %1000 not supported by your mobo because of sketchy intel socket approach will most likely destroy your current CPU by %65-80 raw power which you will never be able to compensate with any kind of RAM. to a point where you will just feel compelled to get a new mobo + cpu. at that point, understand me that DDR5 will also be more mature by that time, kits that will be easily running 10000 MHz will be around, while your starter kit DDR5 rams will be considered old and barely push 7000 Mhz with weird overclock, just like how it initially happened with 2133-2400 MHz DDR5 Kits. they can'T even throw a shade over 3600-4000 MHz DDR4 kits nowadays.
All of this to say that yeah, you can buy cheaper component and still get something good and if you wait you will get better perf with better price. Not shit.
But by your logic I'll never buy a new PC because something better will always be released.

so in the end, you could've simply bought the cheaper ddr4 now, and invest into a new mobo/ddr5 ram later when it matured. but it is just a suggestion. you can also do whatever you want of course. you just remind me of early 2133 mhz ddr4 adapters who had to get new and improved ddr4 kits later into the gen

it is like getting a 2133 mhz 7700k ddr4 combo which completely fails you: here's how

you built 2133 mhz 7700k z270 combo

4 years later, 10900k + 4000 mhz z390 combo exists.

your 2133 mhz ram became unusable, a waste. your cpu also became a waste. mobo too.

you could, theoritically, get the new shiny 4000 mhz rams and try to make it work with your 7700k (which will most likely won't work or need tuning, because 7700k was never designed to work good with anything above 3000+ its imc is poor compared to later gen intel cpus.) even then, going from 2133 to 4000 barely pushed you to the 8700k overclocked performance region, which is a far cry from 10900k + 4000 mhz performance region...
But I don't want to invest in 1 or 2 years in new RAM. I'm waiting for the custom 40X0 series to drop and that's it.
If there is new DDR5 kit, great! But what you can find today is already very good. Btw I will go with 5600 or 6000 MHz, that is a big improvement from DDR4.

Question was: do you go with DDR5 if you build a new, high end PC -without taking into account the money- and imo the response is yes.
 

DonF

Member
Where in south america? Consoles are expensive af in Brazil, basically double the original price.
Note that I stated "cheap, comparatively"
I'm in Chile.
I got a PS5 for like $800 USD. GPUs are that price here. So to get PS5 performance here, I would have to pay like $1600 USD. You can actually get similar performance with a notebook.
 

yamaci17

Member
That's why I want that sweet 4080 or 4090, haven't decided just yet.

Yeah and perf is even worse with your CPU. I don't know what you are trying to prove here hopnnestly.

All of this to say that yeah, you can buy cheaper component and still get something good and if you wait you will get better perf with better price. Not shit.
But by your logic I'll never buy a new PC because something better will always be released.


But I don't want to invest in 1 or 2 years in new RAM. I'm waiting for the custom 40X0 series to drop and that's it.
If there is new DDR5 kit, great! But what you can find today is already very good. Btw I will go with 5600 or 6000 MHz, that is a big improvement from DDR4.

Question was: do you go with DDR5 if you build a new, high end PC -without taking into account the money- and imo the response is yes.

well in my mind, there are tiers to high end PCs themselves, if you mean super super high end where money is unlimited, yes, i'd say okay, we can go extremes and get ddr5

however within the sane scopes of high end system, I'd build around 5800x 3D, it serves me wonderfully 3-4 years and then get the DDR5 when it matured into 10000 MHz+ low latency timings and improved IPC that that era's CPUs have to offer...

look, it's like asking to get a 3090 or 3080. but of them will go obsolete (aside from the niche "out of vram" situations where both cards will already performing very horribly) on a high end system. both of them are high end GPUs, yet most people would find price difference enormous for what 3090 brings to the table. 5800x 3D is also a high end CPU,


here it tails 6400 mhz driven 12900ks in some games with 3800 mhz ram.. and in some games, 12900ks win by pure IPC, and in some cases indeed 12900ks pulls very much ahead with ddr5. tho at best, you're getting a %15 uplift against the 3800 MHz one. if one cpu drops below 100 frames, the lesser one will tail at 85-88 frames which should not be "game breaking" if you have a capable VRR screen... (even then, the memory used in the test is pretty tame for DDR4)

"The DDR5-6400 kit we used, for example, cost $610 in February, then dropped to $530 in March, before sinking to $480 in April where it currently sits. Granted, that means the memory alone still costs more than the 5800X3D, but we've seen a 22% slide in DDR5-6400 pricing in just two months."

i mean this is just extreme. this is even more extreme than getting a 3090 over a 3080. i simply cannot get myself to buy this ram even for a high end PC I would target, unless I have like, unlimited budget or earn big bucks, like, real big bucks.
 

KyoZz

Tag, you're it.
well in my mind, there are tiers to high end PCs themselves, if you mean super super high end where money is unlimited, yes, i'd say okay, we can go extremes and get ddr5

however within the sane scopes of high end system, I'd build around 5800x 3D, it serves me wonderfully 3-4 years and then get the DDR5 when it matured into 10000 MHz+ low latency timings and improved IPC that that era's CPUs have to offer...
Yep I agree on that. Though we don't know how long it will take to go there.
But again I don't want to buy a kit at the end of the year, and another one in 3 years. I prefer to buy the best you can get right now and keep it for 6/7 years.
Like that I have the benefit of DDR5 and when better RAM is released, the difference won't be astonishing. It's not gonna make your game run from 10 to 60+ FPS.

"The DDR5-6400 kit we used, for example, cost $610 in February, then dropped to $530 in March, before sinking to $480 in April where it currently sits. Granted, that means the memory alone still costs more than the 5800X3D, but we've seen a 22% slide in DDR5-6400 pricing in just two months."

i mean this is just extreme. this is even more extreme than getting a 3090 over a 3080. i simply cannot get myself to buy this ram even for a high end PC I would target, unless I have like, unlimited budget or earn big bucks, like, real big bucks.
Yeah, that's how it is. Hopefully we will continue to see the price drop not only for the RAM but for everything, between now and the end of the year. By then I may be able to reduce the price to something like 3K.
 

yamaci17

Member
Yep I agree on that. Though we don't know how long it will take to go there.
But again I don't want to buy a kit at the end of the year, and another one in 3 years. I prefer to buy the best you can get right now and keep it for 6/7 years.
Like that I have the benefit of DDR5 and when better RAM is released, the difference won't be astonishing. It's not gonna make your game run from 10 to 60+ FPS.


Yeah, that's how it is. Hopefully we will continue to see the price drop not only for the RAM but for everything, between now and the end of the year. By then I may be able to reduce the price to something like 3K.
back to my original point, as to what i was trying to prove, i dont realistically believe that maximum current gen cpus will be able to push high performance on unreal engine 5 games that will land on multiplatforms 2-3 years later. i honesly think that even those max cpus will barely struggle to get a constant 60 fps. at least maybe that performance bump can make a bumpy 50-55 to 60 fps so you may got something there. but i dont realistically believe that you will push comfortably 90+ frames on them nextgen games if they will be designed purely to run 30 fps on zen 2 3.6 ghz

that's why im not satisfied with current very very high end CPUs. i first want to see how the current CPUs will perform with a nextgen ue5 game. i have a feeling that they will be disappointing for people that chase very high framerates and most of them will want to upgrade asap. that's why I also hold out getting a new CPU-MOBO or anything currently. i would rather lock to 30/40 FPS on my lower midend system than having to bumpy 45-60 FPS with a much higher end CPU (THAT's completely me, however)

if they targeted 60 fps on consoles, i could say you would easily get 100+ frames with such a cpu and config, but now stuff has changed. they also shocked me, targeting 30 fps on consoles. its still a capable zen 2 3.6 ghz cpu with less overhead and better API optimizations, and it still can't hold a locked 30 fps in that demo. maybe it will be better but we shall see.

i even think that some devs will probably postpone PC release of many UE5 games later in to this generation to avoid huge backlash and wait for more people to jump on better CPUs instead. i can already see rage and fire when people with 12900ks 5600x 5800x wont be able to get a constant 60 fps. in that situation, even 7600x, 6600x or whatever we will have by then will be unable to maximize the GPU performance. if they dont fix UE5 CPU performance on PC, stuff will be very bleak. we will get GPUs that will most likely be capable of 4K 120 maybe by then, but CPU improvements are also slow compared to GPUs
 
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20cent

Banned
Yeah I always tell my colleagues who live in a 200 sq/ft apartment they can barely afford, why don't you just buy a bigger home like I did?
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Yeah I always tell my colleagues who live in a 200 sq/ft apartment they can barely afford, why don't you just buy a bigger home like I did?
Are you implying that console gamers are poor? :messenger_hushed:
 
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KyoZz

Tag, you're it.
back to my original point, as to what i was trying to prove, i dont realistically believe that maximum current gen cpus will be able to push high performance on unreal engine 5 games that will land on multiplatforms 2-3 years later. i honesly think that even those max cpus will barely struggle to get a constant 60 fps. at least maybe that performance bump can make a bumpy 50-55 to 60 fps so you may got something there. but i dont realistically believe that you will push comfortably 90+ frames on them nextgen games if they will be designed purely to run 30 fps on zen 2 3.6 ghz

that's why im not satisfied with current very very high end CPUs. i first want to see how the current CPUs will perform with a nextgen ue5 game. i have a feeling that they will be disappointing for people that chase very high framerates and most of them will want to upgrade asap. that's why I also hold out getting a new CPU-MOBO or anything currently. i would rather lock to 30/40 FPS on my lower midend system than having to bumpy 45-60 FPS with a much higher end CPU (THAT's completely me, however)

if they targeted 60 fps on consoles, i could say you would easily get 100+ frames with such a cpu and config, but now stuff has changed. they also shocked me, targeting 30 fps on consoles. its still a capable zen 2 3.6 ghz cpu with less overhead and better API optimizations, and it still can't hold a locked 30 fps in that demo. maybe it will be better but we shall see.

i even think that some devs will probably postpone PC release of many UE5 games later in to this generation to avoid huge backlash and wait for more people to jump on better CPUs instead. i can already see rage and fire when people with 12900ks 5600x 5800x wont be able to get a constant 60 fps. in that situation, even 7600x, 6600x or whatever we will have by then will be unable to maximize the GPU performance. if they dont fix UE5 CPU performance on PC, stuff will be very bleak. we will get GPUs that will most likely be capable of 4K 120 maybe by then, but CPU improvements are also slow compared to GPUs
Only time will tell. If it is the case then I will do what's needed to get the FPS I want but I do think I'm good with the 12900.
 
Everyone is different. When I recommend a phone for my mom it's not a Samsung S22 ultra.

I play weebshit and old games on my PC and you don't need a 32 gigabyte 3090 system for that. Ignore the PCMR crowd.
 

baphomet

Member
I don't believe this for one second. Stop capping!

Do you have kids? I don't, but I'm around my niece a lot. She only watches YouTube and nearly everyone she watches has the typical gamer PC in the background. She's used my PC tons. Wanted her own. Between extra stuff I had and stuff her mom bought she had enough for a decent first PC.

My sister called one time because they couldn't get it to boot. They didn't have the motherboard plugged up to the PSU. Aside from that she did it all herself watching YouTube. Her mom knows even less about PCs so I doubt she could have been much help.

My dad built PCs back in the mid and late 80s. I probably could have built one by 12 or so, and those were significantly harder than the ones today.
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
I don't believe this for one second. Stop capping!
Why not? Kids learn much faster than adults, and building a PC isn't much more different than assembling a LEGO.

I mean, when I was 13 y/o I used to open the case and curious around to check it's components and also clean it from time to time. And that was like 18 years ago, imagine how it is with the kids there are nowadays which are much more used to tech stuff than we were back in the day.
 
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GymWolf

Member
Why not? Kids learn much faster than adults, and building a PC isn't much more different than assembling a LEGO.

I mean, when I was 13 y/o I used to open the case and curious around to check it's components and also clean it from time to time. And that was like 18 years ago, imagine how it is with the kids there are nowadays which are much more used to tech stuff than we were back in the day.
so that's why i can't build a pc to save my life, never played with lego when i was a child...
 
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mckmas8808

Banned
Do you have kids? I don't, but I'm around my niece a lot. She only watches YouTube and nearly everyone she watches has the typical gamer PC in the background. She's used my PC tons. Wanted her own. Between extra stuff I had and stuff her mom bought she had enough for a decent first PC.

My sister called one time because they couldn't get it to boot. They didn't have the motherboard plugged up to the PSU. Aside from that she did it all herself watching YouTube. Her mom knows even less about PCs so I doubt she could have been much help.

My dad built PCs back in the mid and late 80s. I probably could have built one by 12 or so, and those were significantly harder than the ones today.

Why not? Kids learn much faster than adults, and building a PC isn't much more different than assembling a LEGO.

I mean, when I was 13 y/o I used to open the case and curious around to check it's components and also clean it from time to time. And that was like 18 years ago, imagine how it is with the kids there are nowadays which are much more used to tech stuff than we were back in the day.

Yall are truly insane if you believe the average 9-12 year kid knows how or can build their own PC.
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Yall are truly insane if you believe the average 9-12 year kid knows how or can build their own PC.
Get with the times gramps, kids nowadays are much more used to tech stuff than we were.
 

baphomet

Member
Yall are truly insane if you believe the average 9-12 year kid knows how or can build their own PC.
Random 10 year old building a PC. Watch his ~7 year old sister at the end name all the components.

I think you either underestimate kids, or maybe arent around kids that are into PCs, or maybe are around kids but they aren't the brightest.

At 12 I was able to download Sega Genesis games from BBSes, load them onto a floppy, and play it on my Sega Genesis with a super magic drive.

 

Hohenheim

Member
This build is good for the rest of the gen, but waiting for new cards would of course be beneficial.


High-end laptops will usually underperform when compared with its desktop counterparts, but this also should be good for this gen regardless.
Picking one or another is really a matter of whether you'd prefer to prioritize the convenience of a laptop or more power with a desktop.
Thanks!
I'll wait for a HP Omen desktop (or something similar) with the new intel core i9-13900k when that's out. Those early impressions looks really great! Along with a RTX 3090, that should be a rig that will last for many years.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
I've mainly been a console gamer since the NES (had one "gaming" PC around 2003, which was quite powerful for its time, but definitly not the huge difference from the consoles back then, compared to high-end gaming pc's and consoles today).

While I'm enjoying the couch gaming and easy set ups with my consoles, i'm lately been drawn into the PC space. Both because of higher framerates and general performance in gaming, but also because my current lap top (six years old) is really starting to show its limitations when working with heavy plug ins in my DAW etc. During those six years I have not used that laptop for any serious gaming, mostly because of the limitations in the specs, and because im used to the easy and comfy world of consoles.

I've done quite a bit of research for a new PC now, and consider jumping into it. Building my own is a step too far for my console mind, so GAF, what do you think about buying a pre-build PC with these specs:
  • Intel Core i9-12900K
  • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080
  • 32 GB DDR4 RAM, 2 TB SSD
Would this be a future proof investment now, or would it be better to wait for the next cards? This rig can of course be updated in the future.

Also considering a gaming laptop with these specs:

  • AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800H
  • GeForce RTX 3070, QHD 165Hz
  • 16 GB DDR4 RAM, 1000 GB SSD
Music production and gaming will be the main use.

Sorry for the rambling here, appreciate any tips and advice!
Keep in mind, that even desktop 3080 is running 100% in any game since it was released.
At least when you are using 4k and 120hz screen, then you will usually hit around 100 in everything but the gpu is already utilized to it's max for some time now.
Does not leave much headroom for the future.
What I am trying to say - it is pointless to build for the future.
Look now? if You got 3090 over 3080 2 years ago... when really demanding games come, that 5-10% of performance wont do much of a change anyway
 
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Hohenheim

Member
Keep in mind, that even desktop 3080 is running 100% in any game since it was released.
At least when you are using 4k and 120hz screen, then you will usually hit around 100 in everything but the gpu is already utilized to it's max for some time now.
Does not leave much headroom for the future
Yeah, I've decided to wait for the new intel core i9-13900k and get the 3090 with that CPU. That should leave more headroom and be quite futureproof, right? When investing in a powerful rig, I want to be sure it lasts a while before needing any upgrading. This is all very new to me, as I've been using nothing but consoles since 2003! Thanks for the feedback!
 

welshrat

Member
Because I already have a PC and want to play console games at a framerate that is decent. I have reached a stage in my life where I can buy all the stuff I want and I enjoy console gaming in the best quality I can. Once thing that does seem to work well though are both VRR and also the new 40fps modes being pushed by Sony. I recently bought a nice 65 inch 120hz TV and I have to say going from 30fps to 40fps is sufficient for me not to crave 60.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
Yeah, I've decided to wait for the new intel core i9-13900k and get the 3090 with that CPU. That should leave more headroom and be quite futureproof, right? When investing in a powerful rig, I want to be sure it lasts a while before needing any upgrading. This is all very new to me, as I've been using nothing but consoles since 2003! Thanks for the feedback!
Advice. Don't bother too much with always wanting to run everything at ultra high resolutions, ultra high fps and ultra high graphics settings all at once.
Its a fruitless endeavor that'll only give you headaches, seeing as many games on PC or ported to PC from consoles often add extra settings that are either unoptimized or intend to take advantage of future or newly released hardware.

The mindset you should have here is getting a rig that'll run current gen games at great quality and performance, not maximum quality and performance. Repeat, trying to max everything in every game will only make you frustrated.
I emphasize this because the majority of cases i see of discontentment with pc gaming come from people who think they're supposed to always keep everything maxed out at 4k (or whatever cool resolution of the time) and 100+ fps (or whatever cool frame rate of the time). Your games will look great and perform great, keep in mind thats whats important.
 
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The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
I'd like to add that there's still a good portion of games on PS that are still not even available on PC.

Like I said once before, imagine waiting for a game like Bloodborne as a PC port. Still waiting.
It's not really that hard waiting.

You make it sound like people who are interested in it has tunnel vision on it and can't play anything else.

Theres so many games that you should really have a niche taste to only look forward to Bloodborne getting a port.

I'd rather buy for 499 usd games than pay 499 plus 70 for a single game.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Advice. Don't bother too much with always wanting to run everything at ultra high resolutions, ultra high fps and ultra high graphics settings all at once.
Its a fruitless endeavor that'll only give you headaches, seeing as many games on PC or ported to PC from consoles often add extra settings that are either unoptimized or intend to take advantage of future or newly released hardware.

The mindset you should have here is getting a rig that'll run current gen games at great quality and performance, not maximum quality and performance. Repeat, trying to max everything in every game will only make you frustrated.
I emphasize this because the majority of cases i see of discontentment with pc gaming come from people who think they're supposed to always keep everything maxed out at 4k (or whatever cool resolution of the time) and 100+ fps (or whatever cool frame rate of the time). Your games will look great and perform great, keep in mind thats whats important.

will forte lol GIF by The Late Show With Stephen Colbert
 

Hohenheim

Member
Advice. Don't bother too much with always wanting to run everything at ultra high resolutions, ultra high fps and ultra high graphics settings all at once.
Its a fruitless endeavor that'll only give you headaches, seeing as many games on PC or ported to PC from consoles often add extra settings that are either unoptimized or intend to take advantage of future or newly released hardware.

The mindset you should have here is getting a rig that'll run current gen games at great quality and performance, not maximum quality and performance. Repeat, trying to max everything in every game will only make you frustrated.
I emphasize this because the majority of cases i see of discontentment with pc gaming come from people who think they're supposed to always keep everything maxed out at 4k (or whatever cool resolution of the time) and 100+ fps (or whatever cool frame rate of the time). Your games will look great and perform great, keep in mind thats whats important.
Thanks for very good advice! I definitly won't go for "ultra everything". I did get a laptop with a 3070 card and Ryzen 7 5800H with 16 GB DDR 4 RAM. Got a Samsung Odessey G7 monitor with it, and that should hopefully be fine for now, since I do most of my gaming on the consoles.

I really look forward to getting a real rig some day though! They are so very tempting!
 

MikeM

Member
Thanks for very good advice! I definitly won't go for "ultra everything". I did get a laptop with a 3070 card and Ryzen 7 5800H with 16 GB DDR 4 RAM. Got a Samsung Odessey G7 monitor with it, and that should hopefully be fine for now, since I do most of my gaming on the consoles.

I really look forward to getting a real rig some day though! They are so very tempting!
How is it versus the new consoles? I toy with the idea of a laptop to eventually pass down to my kids for school, but I want damn good performance which can be lacking due to power constraints
 

Hohenheim

Member
How is it versus the new consoles? I toy with the idea of a laptop to eventually pass down to my kids for school, but I want damn good performance which can be lacking due to power constraints
I haven't really been putting it through much of test so far, as I've only been playing Tyranny. It sure feels great to play that kind of game on a computer with keyboard and mouse again though!
I'll post when I've tested some more demanding games on Game Pass, and can make some comparisons with the console versions.
 

Madflavor

Member
Because building a Gaming PC takes research, time, and a lot more money than buying a console, so there's the intimidation factor.

"You can build a decent gaming PC on a budget"

Yes you can, but it's not gonna be future proof, and why make the jump to PC gaming if you're not aiming for much better performance than consoles? Not to mention the PC community are constantly jerking themselves off about how sexy their PC build is, that when the average console gamer sees how expensive the high end components are, and how difficult it is to get them, of course they're gonna say "Fuck that." It also really doesn't help that many PC gamers are fucking snobs who overly obsess about graphics, that it's a turn off. I say all of this as a PC gamer all my life.

PC gaming is really for the hardcore audience. The gamers who want better than good performance, modding capability, customization, etc etc. There is a bit of a barrier to entry.
 
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rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Because building a Gaming PC takes research, time, and a lot more money than buying a console, so there's the intimidation factor.

"You can build a decent gaming PC on a budget"

Yes you can, but it's not gonna be future proof, and why make the jump to PC gaming if you're not aiming for much better performance than consoles? Not to mention the PC community are constantly jerking themselves off about how sexy their PC build is, that when the average console gamer sees how expensive the high end components are, and how difficult it is to get them, of course they're gonna say "Fuck that." It also really doesn't help that many PC gamers are fucking snobs who overly obsess about graphics, that it's a turn off. I say all of this as a PC gamer all my life.

PC gaming is really for the hardcore audience. The gamers who want better than good performance, modding capability, customization, etc etc. There is a bit of a barrier to entry.
Because pc gaming is far from being only about performance. You are a pc gamer for all your life and don`t know that?
 

Madflavor

Member
Because pc gaming is far from being only about performance. You are a pc gamer for all your life and don`t know that?

Yes I know that, and I demonstrated that in my last sentence. The OP brought up performance specifically. I would also argue that it's a mistake to go for a budget PC, instead of exercising more patience to save up the money for something better. It opens more doors for you, and someone who's jumping into PC Gaming for the first time shouldn't have regrets after spending their money. Once you start playing games at above 60fps for a long period of time, it becomes very bothersome once your PC stops keeping up with the newest titles and you start dipping below 45fps.
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
This build is good for the rest of the gen, but waiting for new cards would of course be beneficial.


High-end laptops will usually underperform when compared with its desktop counterparts, but this also should be good for this gen regardless.
Picking one or another is really a matter of whether you'd prefer to prioritize the convenience of a laptop or more power with a desktop.

I know the topic has moved on but my autism just won't let this go.

How well the laptop preforms is based pretty much singularly on how much wattage that 3070 is allowed to use, there are diffrences between 85, 105 and 130 watt versions, where talking 15-30 frame diffences here on some of the most demanding games. Even more on less demanding titles.

Hohenheim Hohenheim any chance you can give us the model laptop your looking at, can do a deep dive to see how it preforms depending on wattage and if it had a MUX switch etc.
 
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Hohenheim

Member
I know the topic has moved on but my autism just won't let this go.

How well the laptop preforms is based pretty much singularly on how much wattage that 3070 is allowed to use, there are diffrences between 85, 105 and 130 watt versions, where talking 15-30 frame diffences here on some of the most demanding games. Even more on less demanding titles.

Hohenheim Hohenheim any chance you can give us the model laptop your looking at, can do a deep dive to see how it preforms depending on wattage and if it had a MUX switch etc.
STARSBarry STARSBarry It's this one:

Lenovo Legion 5 Pro 16" 165Hz QHD IPS NVIDIA G-Sync 500 nits Gaming Laptop AMD Ryzen 7-5800H 16GB RAM 1TB SSD RTX 3070 8GB GDDR6​


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09NS2SMKP/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Hopefully it will run Baldurs Gate 3 nice and smooth when the 1.0 version finally get released. That game is what sparked my new interest in the PC space again!
 

Guilty_AI

Member
STARSBarry STARSBarry It's this one:

Lenovo Legion 5 Pro 16" 165Hz QHD IPS NVIDIA G-Sync 500 nits Gaming Laptop AMD Ryzen 7-5800H 16GB RAM 1TB SSD RTX 3070 8GB GDDR6​


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09NS2SMKP/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Hopefully it will run Baldurs Gate 3 nice and smooth when the 1.0 version finally get released. That game is what sparked my new interest in the PC space again!
Reviews on it seem generally pretty positive, and it can run high-end stuff like FS2020 or cyberpunk 2077 on high-ultra settings. Should run BG3 no problem and be useful for the rest of the gen.
You probably won't get +60 fps on every high-end game without some compromise however, and naturally stuff like quiet mode may cause fps drops. That said, even if you want everything at max and happen to keep getting ~50 fps-ish because of it, g-sync will be your friend.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
It's a Lenovo laptop... is lenovo good now or what?
Last I remember Lenove was trash brand but I kinda dislike laptops in general
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
It's a Lenovo laptop... is lenovo good now or what?
Last I remember Lenove was trash brand but I kinda dislike laptops in general
Go on google.
Type "[insert laptop brand] laptops are garbage" for all brands you can think of.
Behold the not-really-surprising results for each one of them.
 
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rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Go on google.
Type "[insert laptop brand] laptops are garbage" for all brands you can think of.
Behold the not-really-surprising results for each one of them.
Nothing is as bad as Dell though.
I would take mediocre lenovo, rather than best dell
 

Hohenheim

Member
Reviews on it seem generally pretty positive, and it can run high-end stuff like FS2020 or cyberpunk 2077 on high-ultra settings. Should run BG3 no problem and be useful for the rest of the gen.
You probably won't get +60 fps on every high-end game without some compromise however, and naturally stuff like quiet mode may cause fps drops. That said, even if you want everything at max and happen to keep getting ~50 fps-ish because of it, g-sync will be your friend.
Thanks for the feedback!
The Odessey G7 have G-Sync, so that's good. This seems like a mild but solid step up from the Series X, and seems like a great companion while I save up for something like a Omen desktop with the next Intel I9 processor.
As I have Game Pass for PC and a PS5 for the exclusives there, I should be all good for a while with this setup.

After getting the experience of sitting in a comfy chair right in front of the Odessey G7 monitor it doesn't feel quite as nice to play on the TV though. Although I have a LG Oled 65", the immersion with the curved monitor is something else.
Maybe it's because i've been primary playing on TVs for the last 20 years and the "new" factor of PC gaming is part of it, but it just feels so good.
 
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