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Did the Super Nintendo actually win the 16-Bit war?

Did the SNES beat out Blast Processing?

  • No, Sega moved on to the Saturn.

    Votes: 69 16.0%
  • Yes, the SNES outperformed the Genesis commercially.

    Votes: 361 84.0%

  • Total voters
    430

01011001

Banned
Depends. The Mega Drive dwarfs the SNES in action - sidescrollers and shoot 'em ups in terms of quantity and quality. While the SNES dwarfs the Mega Drive in slower paced platformers and RPGs. They're very different libraries, and they really complement each other very, very well. You cannot get better than this as far as 2D gaming goes than playing around with both of their libraries in RetroArch or something.

the Mega Drive really only has that shmup genre on lock, the SNES has amazing games in each genre, and I would argue in 9 out of 10 genres it has the best game of that generation... not only that, many of them eere genre defining

jump n run: Super Mario World
jump n shoot: Mega Man X
action adventure: Zelda 3/Metroid 3 (2 different styles, both genius games)
RPG: Chrono Trigger (alternatively FFVI)
Racing games: F-Zero, Mario Kart
Beat em Up: Turtles in Time
Fighting Games: these were usually on both systems, but the SNES got more SF2 versions and almost always had the best versions of these fighting games

of course for someone who actually cares about retro games you have to look into all these consoles, including the PC Engine and NeoGeo, but what I'm talking about here is if the average joe would be put in front of both systems, I bet almost everyone would favour the SNES over the Mega Drive
 
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RoadHazard

Gold Member
Why is the chart comparing mega drive to SNES? Usn't mega drive a competitor to the NES?

Master System VS NES
Mega Drive VS SNES
Saturn VS PS1 & N64
Dreamcast VS PS2 (& GameCube & Xbox, but the DC was already dead before those even released)

Sega did release early in all these generations to get a headstart (which kinda worked with the MD but failed in all other cases), but it's always super weird to me when people consider the MD primarily a NES competitor. It's clearly part of the SNES generation.
 

Soapbox Killer

Grand Nagus
the Mega Drive really only has that shmup genre on lock, the SNES has amazing games in each genre, and I would argue in 9 out of 10 genres it has the best game of that generation... not only that, many of them eere genre defining

jump n run: Super Mario World
jump n shoot: Mega Man X GUNSTAR HEROES
action adventure: Zelda 3/Metroid 3 (2 different styles, both genius games)
RPG: Chrono Trigger (alternatively FFVI)
Racing games: F-Zero, Mario Kart
Beat em Up: Turtles in Time STREETS OF RAGE
Fighting Games: these were usually on both systems, but the SNES got more SF2 versions and almost always had the best versions of these fighting games

of course for someone who actually cares about retro games you have to look into all these consoles, including the PC Engine and NeoGeo, but what I'm talking about here is if the average joe would be put in front of both systems, I bet almost everyone would favour the SNES over the Mega Drive

I hear you. I just think I wanna give props to Sega for those to games. Funny enough, I'd argue that SHUMPS are on push and the SuperNes could go pound for pound with Genesis with shumps.
 

Flakster99

Member
The 16-bit wars started with the TurboGrafx-16 vs Sega Genesis in the late 80s

Nintendo being late to the battle riding the NES wave for as long as they could when The Super Famicom could have been released a lot earlier was a choice and negates nothing

You're all over the place.

By the time Sega replaced the Genesis with the Saturn the SNES was already the 16-bit market share leader by millions, therefor before the Saturn was released. Not only that, the SNES grabbed the 16-bit market share lead after being the market 1 year, and it steadily grew before/during/after Sega decided to dump the Genesis.

We have the chart/statistics that were posted earlier in this thread that back that up, so you can spare us the obtuse "whah whah whah Sega gave away their 16-bit market share lead when they launch Saturn".

I loved the Genesis too but facts are facts.
 
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Little Mac

Member
Dr Steve Brule Yes GIF
 

Barakov

Member
I loved the Genesis and Sega's output of that era but the Super Nintendo was on a whole other level. It was more powerful, had the best games and the controller had the correct amount of buttons.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
You answered your own question. Genesis needed add ons to compete. SNES didn't. They keep it simple.

Sega didn’t need add ons to compete. None of their add ons made a big impact anyways.

Also Nintendo was working on a CD add on themselves with Sony. We all know how that worked out.
 
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the Mega Drive really only has that shmup genre on lock, the SNES has amazing games in each genre, and I would argue in 9 out of 10 genres it has the best game of that generation... not only that, many of them eere genre defining

jump n run: Super Mario World
jump n shoot: Mega Man X
action adventure: Zelda 3/Metroid 3 (2 different styles, both genius games)
RPG: Chrono Trigger (alternatively FFVI)
Racing games: F-Zero, Mario Kart
Beat em Up: Turtles in Time
Fighting Games: these were usually on both systems, but the SNES got more SF2 versions and almost always had the best versions of these fighting games

of course for someone who actually cares about retro games you have to look into all these consoles, including the PC Engine and NeoGeo, but what I'm talking about here is if the average joe would be put in front of both systems, I bet almost everyone would favour the SNES over the Mega Drive

It's a toss up for me, really. I don't agree with your list but i can spend hours deciding making my own list. It's a fun topic to discuss later. But i gotta add:

I hear you. I just think I wanna give props to Sega for those to games. Funny enough, I'd argue that SHUMPS are on push and the SuperNes could go pound for pound with Genesis with shumps.

Haha, fuck no.

Elite Tier (10/10) - Untouchable.
  • Battle Mania Daiginjō
  • MUSHA: Metallic Uniframe Hybrid Armor
  • Thunderforce IV
  • Eliminate Down
  • Gaiares
Great Tier (8-9/10)
  • Thunderforce III
  • Battle Mania
  • Elemental Master
  • Koutetsu Teikoku: Steel Empire
  • Fire Shark
  • Super Fantasy Zone
  • Gley Lancer
Good Tier (7-7.5/10)
  • Vapor Trail: Hyper Offence Formation
  • Twin Cobra
  • Bio Hazard Battle
  • Undeadline
  • Truxton
Maybe a couple SNES shmups could compete in the Good Tier, arguably one could make a case in the Great Tier, but they're all far below the Elite Tier.
 

Romulus

Member
Sega didn’t need add ons to compete. None of their add ons made a big impact anyways.

Also Nintendo was working on a CD add on themselves with Sony. We all know how that worked out.

Sega didn't know their add ons would not have a big impact though. They thought they would. No one does that for no reason.

Some of the reason the cd add on never happened probably because the snes was already successful and looking at Sega constant failures
 
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Soapbox Killer

Grand Nagus
It's a toss up for me, really. I don't agree with your list but i can spend hours deciding making my own list. It's a fun topic to discuss later. But i gotta add:



Haha, fuck no.

Elite Tier (10/10) - Untouchable.
  • Battle Mania Daiginjō
  • MUSHA: Metallic Uniframe Hybrid Armor
  • Thunderforce IV
  • Eliminate Down
  • Gaiares
Great Tier (8-9/10)
  • Thunderforce III
  • Battle Mania
  • Elemental Master
  • Koutetsu Teikoku: Steel Empire
  • Fire Shark
  • Super Fantasy Zone
  • Gley Lancer
Good Tier (7-7.5/10)
  • Vapor Trail: Hyper Offence Formation
  • Twin Cobra
  • Bio Hazard Battle
  • Undeadline
  • Truxton
Maybe a couple SNES shmups could compete in the Good Tier, arguably one could make a case in the Great Tier, but they're all far below the Elite Tier.
OK I'm game, please rank the following if you don't mind:

R-type III or Super R-Type
Bio Metal
UN Squadron
Gradius 3
Darius G? (not twin the other one can't remember the name)
 
Master System VS NES
Mega Drive VS SNES
Saturn VS PS1 & N64
Dreamcast VS PS2 (& GameCube & Xbox, but the DC was already dead before those even released)

Sega did release early in all these generations to get a headstart (which kinda worked with the MD but failed in all other cases), but it's always super weird to me when people consider the MD primarily a NES competitor. It's clearly part of the SNES generation.
isnt it genesis vs snes?
 

wondermega

Member
OK I'm game, please rank the following if you don't mind:

R-type III or Super R-Type
Bio Metal
UN Squadron
Gradius 3
Darius G? (not twin the other one can't remember the name)
How could you forget Space Megaforce! Oh wait, it's got an atrocious (although endearing) name. Actually this is my favorite SNES game and I would put it at Elite Tier. With this game they matched anything that was the best (that I'd seen) on Genesis. Although to be fair, Genesis' Musha (same developer) was actually more fun, and the music definitely sounded better (and much better composition) but technically the two go hand-in-hand for me.
 

Soapbox Killer

Grand Nagus
How could you forget Space Megaforce! Oh wait, it's got an atrocious (although endearing) name. Actually this is my favorite SNES game and I would put it at Elite Tier. With this game they matched anything that was the best (that I'd seen) on Genesis. Although to be fair, Genesis' Musha (same developer) was actually more fun, and the music definitely sounded better (and much better composition) but technically the two go hand-in-hand for me.


I have never even heard of this game let alone knowledge that it was a shump. It's a rather impressive omission that I have missed it all these years and after watching a bit on youtube I should be ashamed for missing this. I
 

wondermega

Member
I have never even heard of this game let alone knowledge that it was a shump. It's a rather impressive omission that I have missed it all these years and after watching a bit on youtube I should be ashamed for missing this. I
Yeah I don't blame people for missing it, SNES is not routinely discussed as a shmup machine and when the console does invariably come up in conversation, that is a genre which is seldom acknowledged in the mainstream (I am pretty sure that the SNES Classic didn't have a single shmup on it! Starfox doesn't count..)

Anyway check it out now! A brilliant game that still holds up really well!
 

Shifty

Member
It's a toss up for me, really. I don't agree with your list but i can spend hours deciding making my own list. It's a fun topic to discuss later. But i gotta add:



Haha, fuck no.

Elite Tier (10/10) - Untouchable.
  • Battle Mania Daiginjō
  • MUSHA: Metallic Uniframe Hybrid Armor
  • Thunderforce IV
  • Eliminate Down
  • Gaiares
Great Tier (8-9/10)
  • Thunderforce III
  • Battle Mania
  • Elemental Master
  • Koutetsu Teikoku: Steel Empire
  • Fire Shark
  • Super Fantasy Zone
  • Gley Lancer
Good Tier (7-7.5/10)
  • Vapor Trail: Hyper Offence Formation
  • Twin Cobra
  • Bio Hazard Battle
  • Undeadline
  • Truxton
Maybe a couple SNES shmups could compete in the Good Tier, arguably one could make a case in the Great Tier, but they're all far below the Elite Tier.
Thunder Force IV truly is untouchable. The Ninja Gaiden Black of 16-bit shmups, just the total package.

I'll throw in Arrow Flash for Great Tier on Mega Drive. Fun little transforming plane / mecha shooter with a robust set of mechanics and some impressive setpieces.

Beat me to it. I'd put this one in Great Tier too. The Colony stage music is one of the SNES tracks that punches on-weight with the upper echelons of Mega Drive tunes

isnt it genesis vs snes?
Only in the US. Everywhere else used the original Mega Drive name.
 
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Pedro Motta

Member
Sega Genesis had the better version of the games. Aladdin on Genesis was way better, Jurassic Park on Genesis was way better. Not talking about graphics or colors, talking really about versions of the games that were specifically for the Genesis.
 

Ozzie666

Member
Overall seems like a very American take. Genesis held it's own in the US and held the lead for a while. The tide started to turn at the end of 1993, with the SNES taking the lead for the remainder of the 90's. This is partially due to Sega shelving the genesis sort of speak, then trying to bring it back once they messed up.

Genesis or Mega drive did incredibly well in Europe and America, if they had similar success in japan like PC Engine, this would be a different story. Plenty of both SNES and Genesis in my area for sure.

1994 to 1995 had a lot of great Genesis titles that went under appreciated and undersold, partially due to 32X, Sega CD and Saturn confusion from Sega. They pulled to early. Games like Rocket Knight, Comic Zone, Vector man, Bat Man, Ristar, countless others. The Genesis line up got even stronger when companies were able to break free of Nintendo's strong arm policies.

Sega got trounced in one territory only, Japan. But let's be honest, Sega was going to trip over their own feet no matter what and their success was purely fluke. Sega can thank Electronic Arts, Sonic and MK in non japan territories.

Even though the numbers tell a different tale ,from 1991-1994 it was a very even battle in North America. Such a great time to be a gamer.
 
Sega had screwed up whatever Mega Drive momentum they had starting in 1994. if you read the 1996 Sega thread, they had to write off $65 million in unsold Mega Drive inventory in the US.SNES got more years of life after DKC , Starfox, and a few other games, the N64 delay contributed to that. Sega may have from a fans view today, some great games in 1994-1996, but consumers weren't buying many of those games or consoles. Even Sonic was selling relatively poorly which brings to question how many consoles in the US were actually still in use during that time if these games weren't selling to ~20 million users.

32X helped marginally to the existing base but didn't push people to buy more Mega Drives. Saturn made things worse because now there was less of a reason to buy a mega drive. The other strategy Sega used to try and prolong the life of the Mega Drive was Vectorman in 1995. Vectorman was marketed heavily and sold 500,000 copies by the end of the year, but then sales suddenly dropped off hard and the Sega stopped reporting on the game, they didn't report on the sequel at all. So who brought the 500,000 form the first Vectorman? Was it the remaining active players out of 20 million consoles in American homes? Because going by software sales during at that point that may actually have been true, and if Sega saw this then it would explain why they realized they overproduced and took a big loss on inventory in 1996.

It's likely it was a combination of a few things, no software to entice new gamers to buy a Mega Drive, SNES taking away users from the Mega Drive, the Saturn, 3DO, and PlayStation giving less of a reason to buy one, and there's the fact that the press was having a "PC gaming is more affordable consoles are doomed" meltdown at the time too, so PC could have taking away sales from the Mega Drive in America as well. Sega just couldn't find a way to keep it going, it was a boom bust cycle for Sega. It's why some more radical observers may say the Mega Drive was a fad in the US.

I wouldn't go that far, because if you look at the background of Sega and how it was run, I'd say it was more the fault of Sega being poorly run that caused the Mega Drives life to end prematurely than any fad. But if you don't know the background I can see how some could come to that conclusion.
 
Overall seems like a very American take. Genesis held it's own in the US and held the lead for a while. The tide started to turn at the end of 1993, with the SNES taking the lead for the remainder of the 90's. This is partially due to Sega shelving the genesis sort of speak, then trying to bring it back once they messed up.
They didn't shelf anything, US consumers just stopped buying the consoles, Sega expected the Genesis to keep going and had to take a $65 million loss in 1996 due to unsold inventory. The SNES didn't have any such issue. That write-off was SPECIFICALLY for the US branch of Sega as well.

You answered your own question. Genesis needed add ons to compete. SNES didn't. They keep it simple.

50 vs 30 million is a pretty devastating ass beating, especially considering SNES came out later.

Sega didn't need add-ons to compete, thy though it would drive sales higher and future proof the console. Also SFC had addons too.

Wait were the numbers really that low? Which countries had poor game sales around that time compared to now?
Some analysts put SNES at 48 and thing Nintendo may have messed with a few numbers, same with Genesis at 28.

Even so, those consoles did sell low, PC gaming was becoming more affordable, Micro were already affordable, and by 1993 Micros were being repalced by PC for gaming and everything else. Same year the 3DO came out, people weren't as excited for the SNES and Genesis as much as people think they did, Genesis software sales were generally bad most of the time, and NEC was even worse, even in Japan they weren't actually selling that much software.

There was a crash in 1992-1996 where the game industry went from over $7 billion to 2.3. 3D gaming on consoles reversed that trend pretty quickly. I think it was back to 7 or higher by end of 1997.

Sega stopped supporting the genesis after 94/early 95 SNES was supported until like late 96/97

They stopped supported the Genesis in 1996, Vectorman 2 came out in 1996. The 32X came out in 1994 and had games for it until 1996.

In the US Sega published Alien Soldier, Vectorman 1, College Football Championship 2, Batman and Robin, Beyond Oasis, Road Runner Desert Demolition, Ecco Jr, Garfield caught in the Act, Magic School Bus, Light Crusader, Power Rangers Movie, NBA Action 95, The Ooze, Ristar, Comix Zone, and more in 1995. I have no idea where you got the idea that Sega shelved the system in the US in 1995.

The problem was many gamers weren't buying those games, or buying consoles for them.

The revisionist history of SNES whooping the Genesis has always seemed rather pathetic to me

SNES came out late, the Genesis had a sizable lead until 1993 when the lead started shrinking, Sega could no get people to keep buying Mega Drive consoles starting in 1994 despite Sega publishing a crap load of games from 1994 t 1996, no0ne o it worked, and in the US specifically, Sega had to write off over $60 million in unsold inventory. They even had a game to with an expensive but impressive 3D chip in it to try and imitate Star Fox success with Virtua Racing, and that couldn't even sell half a million units, Star Fox sold almost 2 million the same year it came out.

Genesis was being whooped at least since 1993, where the SNES was closing the gap and selling at a higher rate until it beat it. NES also had better software sales since launch which the Genesis always struggled without side a handful of hit games.

Alien Soldier alone shits on anything comparable, then there's Gunstar Heroes. Wanna start a list war?

Not in sales it doesn't.
 
They both had there place but by any reasonable metric, Super Nintendo is the defining 16-Bit system by way of software. Sales numbers can be skewed to push any narrative so that one or the other can be dismissed but if we just look at the software alone, the Sega Genesis/ Mega Drive had some all time classic games that are still very fun to play today.


However,

Super Nintendo had games that some people still think are the greatest games ever made

Super Metroid, A Link to the Past , Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 6, Super Mario World.


That is some damn compelling software. Sega wasn't a slouch either and shined when it came to action and sports games (dudes were playing NHL 94 for ten years plus)

After Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger i forgot the Sega Genesis existed.
 

Soapbox Killer

Grand Nagus
Sega Genesis had the better version of the games. Aladdin on Genesis was way better, Jurassic Park on Genesis was way better. Not talking about graphics or colors, talking really about versions of the games that were specifically for the Genesis.

Not Street Fighter 2 or Mortal Kombat (blood code and all)
 

FStubbs

Member
Sega didn’t need add ons to compete. None of their add ons made a big impact anyways.

Also Nintendo was working on a CD add on themselves with Sony. We all know how that worked out.
It was disastrous for both companies. Ruined Sega and almost ruined Nintendo.
 

Chiggs

Member
You answered your own question. Genesis needed add ons to compete. SNES didn't. They keep it simple.

50 vs 30 million is a pretty devastating ass beating, especially considering SNES came out later.

The SNES needed all sorts of add-on chips just to prevent its shitty Ricoh CPU from blowing up.

And I’m sure as hell not just referring to the FX chip, either.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I had both systems and each system had their strengths in games. Sega had better sports and of course Sega arcade games, while SNES had Mario (way better than Sonic), JRPGs, and their Capcom and Konami games were better. I played off their libraries and bought the better version/genres on each system.

As for the hardware itself, SNES sold more, the controller was more functional at standard 6 buttons, and it had better effects and audio. Have fun trying to play SFII or any fighting game on Genesis and its 3 button. You ha to upgrade to 6 button controllers to play any fighting game effectively that used lots of buttons. Problem with SNES was their sports were shit.

Genesis' black hardware looked better and the standard gamepad felt more comfortable to hold as it is bigger (NES and SNES gamepads are super small). It looked so much better vs. the white/purple SNES in North America, while the SFC looks so good. Genesis also had a stereo output port which you could plug in headphones which I did. Sounded so good as the TV I used was mono. Sega CD was crap. Tons of FMV games. Just imagine how many more and better cartridge games for Genesis could be made if there was no CD.
 
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mansoor1980

Gold Member
Wait were the numbers really that low? Which countries had poor game sales around that time compared to now?
dont know about country sales numbers but gaming was not really mainstream back then hence the overall low numbers.
that changed with playstation
 

Romulus

Member
The SNES needed all sorts of add-on chips just to prevent its shitty Ricoh CPU from blowing up.

And I’m sure as hell not just referring to the FX chip, either.


Genesis got smoked... even with a skyscraper worth of add-on hardware, add-on chips, and a headstart, Genesis still lost the battle by a large margin.
 
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Celine

Member
Genesis or Mega drive did incredibly well in Europe and America, if they had similar success in japan like PC Engine, this would be a different story. Plenty of both SNES and Genesis in my area for sure.
You are under the wrong impression that PCE had sold markedly more than MD in Japan, which isn't true.
Comparatively the one aspect PCE was dominating over MD in Japan was in the CD players install-base, the ratio was close to 5:1.

In Japan the base PCE has sold 3.77M, the Duo models around 1.00M and lastly the Rom^2 add-on around 1.00M (PCE "CD players" userbase was close to 2M).
Only considering the standalone consoles and excluding the portable units, PCE TV consoles total sales in Japan were around 4.8M units.
Meanwhile Mega Drive has sold 3.58M, Mega CD 0.40M and Super 32X around 0.05M.
So PCE outsold the Mega Drive in Japan but not by much.

Japanese Shipment data from NEC HE:
J8iL2Yr.jpg
 
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PhaseJump

Banned
Yes it did, also had way more better games.

Sega had more good action games compared to the crap. SNES had fewer, better games, and worse crap. I had the NES and SNES as my main consoles growing up, and I wouldn't go back to picking up and playing games on it before playing the legit hidden gems on Genesis.

I currently have all the old hardware, mini consoles, MiSTer FPGA, and Analogue Mega SG & Super NT set up with flash carts. SNES games are just fucking slow.
 

cireza

Member
What really matter is that SNES, Mega Drive, PC Engine and Neo Geo AES are great console with awesome games (though the latter was/is very expensive).
Fantastic generation.

Cumulative consoles shipment data from the respective console manufacturers:

KxRXdti.png


mgMFyqR.png
These graphs are incomplete for SEGA since they don't include sales made in South America for example. These are also MD numbers in 1994, while the console was still sold afterwards. And no info about other systems such as the Nomad, Multi Mega etc... Inaccurate at best, completely wrong at worst.
 
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RetroAV

Member
Nintendo had 94% of the market in the early 90’s, and they had third-parties sign exclusivity agreements if they wanted to keep making games for the NES. In comes Sega and in a couple of years, they go from 800 million in sales to over 3.5 billion WITHOUT major third-party support! By the end of ’93, they owned 60% of the U.S. market! Sega pretty much did the impossible, on their own, from the ground up!

Around this time though, SoJ desperately wanted to move on to Saturn as that was their future and the Mega Drive had failed in Japan (sort of how SoA wanted to move on to DC because of Saturn’s performance in the U.S.). So SoJ centered their focus on Saturn leaving SoA to try and keep the Genesis momentum going, but they simply didn’t have the talent or support to do so.

Meanwhile, the SNES was hitting its stride with fantastic first & third-party exclusives, having the upper hand against more expensive next-gen consoles which had a small library of titles, and it was just the perfect storm for the SNES really, and credit to them for capitalizing on it but it doesn't negate the historical impact Sega made when they were fully in it.
 
OK I'm game, please rank the following if you don't mind:

R-type III or Super R-Type
Bio Metal
UN Squadron
Gradius 3
Darius G? (not twin the other one can't remember the name)

Sure, i got time now. I like the shoot 'em up genre a lot. High on pick-up-and-playability and their emphasis on pixel art, level design, gameplay and music make them age incredibly well.

R-type III - Easily at the top of Great Tier, 9/10. Fantastic shooter, and i believe it's the 2nd best shoot 'em up on the SNES.

Super R-Type - Shit. Plagued by slowdown with just a generally bad pace of progression .. IIRC (it's been a long time, haven't felt the need to ever touch this), it's a remixed version of the R-Type II arcade, which i wasn't very fond of either. I just didn't like it at all, and i don't think i'll ever touch it to have a fresher memory of it.

Bio Metal - haven't played it.

UN Squadron - Some people tend to overrate the fuck out of it (top 10? Haha), but it's a good shmup. I think it's definitely improved over the arcade original, there's little to no slowdown and it's a fun game. Easily top of the Good tier, maybe if i replay it i'll bump it at the low end of Great Tier.

Gradius 3 - Sloooowed to oblivion. Seriously, this is one of its few crippling flaws. It killed the game for me, because otherwise it's a great shooter.

Darius G - Never played it.

Btw. someone mentioned Space Megaforce (also known as Super Aleste)? And you haven't played it? Well, play it, that's the best shoot 'em up on the SNES. It's in the same series as MUSHA on the Genesis .. Damn, it might be a close one for the Elite Tier. I gotta give both a swirl in the weekend.

Not in sales it doesn't.

Eh, I've long since transferred everything on RetroArch and i never touched these libraries until around .. 2007. You can imagine how little i care about their market performance wen these machines were relevant. It's all about how good the games are now. And Alien Soldier? Fucking amazing game, a bliss of 2D excellence that sparks dopamine hits almost constantly.
 

German Hops

GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
SNES was ahead vs Genesis in the USA, I barely knew anyone that had a Genesis. SNES was more popular undeniably.
That's crazy. About half of the people I knew had a Genesis. It was almost an even split.
The jocks typically went for the Genesis because of the sports games, while the nerds were busy wanking off to Earthbound on SNES.
 

Shifty

Member
Eh, I've long since transferred everything on RetroArch and i never touched these libraries until around .. 2007. You can imagine how little i care about their market performance wen these machines were relevant. It's all about how good the games are now. And Alien Soldier? Fucking amazing game, a bliss of 2D excellence that sparks dopamine hits almost constantly.
ITT:

The virgin Sales GAF, clawing eachother's eyes out over age old platform wars they just can't let go of after all these years.

The chad Retro GAF, celebrating and uplifting the respective platforms for their individual strengths and finest games.

Alien Soldier is a masterpiece :messenger_horns:
 

Celine

Member
These graphs are incomplete for SEGA since they don't include sales made in South America for example. These are also MD numbers in 1994, while the console was still sold afterwards. And no info about other systems such as the Nomad, Multi Mega etc... Inaccurate at best, completely wrong at worst.
It's shipment data provided by Sega Corporation back in the days they were still manufacturing videogame consoles.

The final Mega Drive LTD worldwide provided by Sega to CESA was 30.75 million units.
 
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Flakster99

Member
These graphs are incomplete for SEGA since they don't include sales made in South America for example. These are also MD numbers in 1994, while the console was still sold afterwards. And no info about other systems such as the Nomad, Multi Mega etc... Inaccurate at best, completely wrong at worst.

Sega themselves provided that shipment data.

You claim the information is either incomplete, inaccurate, or completely wrong. Is it your opinion that Sega themselves are not to be trusted with the shipment data information they themselves released?
 
This is contradicting.

No it's not, the two have nothing to do with each other. Sega was already ahead in the US there wasn't a competitor they Needed the Sega CD to compete with.

dont know about country sales numbers but gaming was not really mainstream back then hence the overall low numbers.
that changed with playstation

Even with Playstation gaming wasn't mainstream it just attracted new demographics that replaced the ones lost before and that generation ended up selling a similar amount of consoles.

People were just not as hyped with the Genesis and SNES in the long term. The drop in the gaming industries profits showed this when in 1992-1996 gaming went from $7 billion to 2.3 or 2.5. 3D and new genres that were appealing to broad groups of people was needed.

You are under the wrong impression that PCE had sold markedly more than MD in Japan, which isn't true.
Comparatively the one aspect PCE was dominating over MD in Japan was in the CD players install-base, the ratio was close to 5:1.

In Japan the base PCE has sold 3.77M, the Duo models around 1.00M and lastly the Rom^2 add-on around 1.00M (PCE "CD players" userbase was close to 2M).
Only considering the standalone consoles and excluding the portable units, PCE TV consoles total sales in Japan were around 4.8M units.
Meanwhile Mega Drive has sold 3.58M, Mega CD 0.40M and Super 32X around 0.05M.
So PCE outsold the Mega Drive in Japan but not by much.

Japanese Shipment data from NEC HE:
J8iL2Yr.jpg

Few issues here, there's little evidence the PCFX sold 100,000 units so having nearly 200,000 on the shelves doesn't make sense to me, after the first shipment the low sales would be obvious so why would they ship another 120,000? Of course, ther's shipments that suggest that the PCFX shipped 400,000 and 500,000 to the numbers all seem to be unreliable.

Another thing, All the CD's were called CD ROM^2, unless they were Super CDs or Arcade CD, most likely you're thinking of the Super CD add-on.

Going to Sega, they used shipment numbers to make it look like the sales were close but they weren't, the PC Engine software sales trounced the Mega Drive and very few games did well even any standard. The PCE CD made things worse for Sega because it took off in Japan which increased software sales even further, while Sega was cutting the Mega Drives price to be more affordable but people were barely buying games for it the attach rate was bad. Sega CD also failed to gain traction like the PCE CD, Japanese consumers were not interested in the software.

You can tell at least 5 million PCE/CD/Duos were sold before NEC destroyed their momentum because of not only the CD revision console sales, but because the shipment numbers grew past 5 million.

In FY92-93 NEC shipped 670.000, the shipments were already over 5.2 million then, and there were 3 more fisical years of shipments after that for the PC Engine ending with a final total of 5.8 million.

In Japan, during that same FY Sega did not even ship 3 million Mega Drives yet, that happened the next FY, and NEC had software sales far ahead of what Sega had on both card and CD, to act like it was close or not my much is wrong.

Now it wasn't a major victory for NEC, at least before the DUO, and both Sega and NEC had poor software sales compared to what the SNES brought in which was the fault of NEC and HUDON marketing weird games without vetting them and not really centering their marketing around some of their top IP, which oddly enough DID happen in the US for some reason. But you are right in that it wasn't a landslide that people think it wasn't, but it wasn't close either.

Genesis got smoked... even with a skyscraper worth of add-on hardware, add-on chips, and a headstart, Genesis still lost the battle by a large margin.
SNES had many chips, but as said in the NEC/SEGA thread Sonic was the major instrument to Sega's success in America and parts of Europe, just America alone you could take 13 million consoles from Sega if it wasn't for Sonic, maybe more, as it's success made it more feasible for third parties like Midway to put Mortal Kombat on it.

When viewed from that angle, it makes sense that the consoles prospect declines with Sonics sales. If US sales were falling so fast in 1994, that by 1996 Sega had to take a $60 million write-off on unsold US inventory and SNES was still selling well that entire time then it's understandable how the SNES had the worldwide lead that it did. It only failed to win in Europe out of the major territories but still picked up sales there late in the gen.

It was disastrous for both companies. Ruined Sega and almost ruined Nintendo.

I don't see how CD almost ruined Nintendo, for one if anyone could have achieved moderate success with the CD Add-on it was Nintendo, in Japan NEC pulled it off, Nintendo was bigger than NEC their with better software support from 3P and FP, they were also a known brand in Europe and the US despite not doing to hot in Europe for consoles, but dominated handhelds. NEC did not have that.
 

cireza

Member
Sega themselves provided that shipment data.

You claim the information is either incomplete, inaccurate, or completely wrong. Is it your opinion that Sega themselves are not to be trusted with the shipment data information they themselves released?
Yes.

Read my post entirely and try giving it a couple seconds of thought.
 
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Romulus

Member
SNES had many chips, but as said in the NEC/SEGA thread Sonic was the major instrument to Sega's success in America and parts of Europe, just America alone you could take 13 million consoles from Sega if it wasn't for Sonic, maybe more, as it's success made it more feasible for third parties like Midway to put Mortal Kombat on it.

That's diversionary to your point. The SNES having chips does not mean Genesis did not have add on chips. It did. AND hardware add ons. Sega got handled even with a headstart and every add on you can imagine, its literally a meme for add ons.
 
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