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Marvel's Spider Man Remastered (PC & Steam Deck) | Review Thread

octiny

Banned
If someone cropped the PS5 pic so you couldnt see it's a building, there isn't one person on Earth who would know it's windows and balconies.

h6CDG0B.jpg

Well it's doing one thing right at least, accurately reflecting what a PS2 version of the game would've looked like.

I think it's safe to say we're going to get a 40+ page thread w/ the DF PC vs PS5 comparison at this point :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
Well it's doing one thing right at least, accurately reflecting what a PS2 version of the game would've looked like.

I think it's safe to say we're going to get a 40+ page thread w/ the DF PC vs PS5 comparison at this point :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Weirdly that looks like the high setting on pc so the very high setting seems to be a noticeable amp
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Except we're not talking about "ultra settings". RT is ment to to do one of many things w/ reflections being a huge one. RT reflections are literally meant to mirror the surroundings around you correctly, if it's not doing that then there's no point of having it enabled.

Good SSR beats shit RT reflections (highly reduced detail/geometry of your actual surroundings) any day of the week, especially when you account for the performance hit. Reducing RT reflection resolution is one thing & is the most common differentiating method between low-medium-high, but when you start reducing the detail & geometry in said reflections to PS2 levels just to say "we have RT reflections" then there's no point of using it. It defeats the purpose of RT reflections which is the precise representation of your surroundings.

So no, it's not ignorant. You're just exacting damage control given your post history.

You do realize that SSR can't do what's in those screenshots AT ALL? Because that reflected building is not in screen space. There would literally be no reflection, just a fallback cubemap (like when playing the game in the non-RT mode.
 

rofif

Banned
great RT settings here. you can separately change resolution, geo detail and draw distance!

J7iFHB8.jpg


every RT settings menu should look like this
I appreciate the amount of detailed settings but it seems annoying having to try which part of the setting is needless and can be tweaked down.
I would much prefer something more simplified.
With this setup, You will have to turn down 1 setting, register fps change, take screenshot and compare what changed and if it was worth it.
Knowing how this works, half of the setting will probably have no framerate impact or no visual impact, so could be trimmed down....

I love pc settings but they have to make sense and cause some real visible difference.
If there is no visual difference but fps is much better on medium... this setting should not exist and should be just set to medium fixed.
 

01011001

Banned
I appreciate the amount of detailed settings but it seems annoying having to try which part of the setting is needless and can be tweaked down.
I would much prefer something more simplified.
With this setup, You will have to turn down 1 setting, register fps change, take screenshot and compare what changed and if it was worth it.
Knowing how this works, half of the setting will probably have no framerate impact or no visual impact, so could be trimmed down....

I love pc settings but they have to make sense and cause some real visible difference.
If there is no visual difference but fps is much better on medium... this setting should not exist and should be just set to medium fixed.

these settings make A LOT of sense.
AMD cards will massively benefit from the RT Resolution setting, while cards with low video memory will massively benefit from the Object Range settings, and cards that aren't that good at pushing a lot of polygons will benefit from the Geometry Detail settings.

these settings should literally be in every game that has RT reflections as many cards will be able to push some settings higher than others or lower than others.



the following is speculative but I assume it will be somewhat correct
let's put the RX6700xt vs the RTX3070 for each setting:

Reflection Resolution:
the 6700xt should most likely be set to one of the lower settings here, medium or below depending on your target output resolution
the RTX2070 can most likely run this with some of the higher settings in most cases

Geometry Detail:
here both cards will most likely be able to push the same settings.
if this includes texture detail as well the 6700xt might have an advantage here over the 3070 due to more VRAM.
so most AMD cards will be able to push this higher than most Nvidia cards


Object Range:
this is actually something that will be both dependent on your GPU AND on your CPU
I assume the object range will lead to a shitload more drawcalls in many situations and it also means more stuff to draw for the GPU.
so a weak CPU should lower that slider while if you have a really good one you can most likely max that out without issue

so here I'm not even gonna compare these 2 GPUs as this is more CPU department than GPU.



but as you can see, on PC, settings like these are a must.
if it was a single toggle with like 4 settings then AMD cards and Nvidia cards would suffer for no reason in different ways.
in the higher settings the limited VRAM will fuck with Nvidia cards and the limited RT hardware will fuck with AMD cards.

AMD cards can display and load more textures and objects but they have really weak RT capabilities and so higher resolution RT will tank their Performance. and it's exactly the other way around with many Nvidia cards.

but there's actually one Nvidia card that is in a similar situation to AMD cards, the RTX3060.
a shitload of VRAM (12GB) but massively reduced RT cores.
so that card, like AMD cards, can most likely push for higher geometry and object distance settings, but will have to use a lower reflection Resolution setting.

all of these cards could not be optimally utilized if the setting was simplified like you want it to be.

with how vastly different all of these cards handle different aspects of these reflections it's simply how it should be done in every game
 
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ZywyPL

Banned
If someone cropped the PS5 pic so you couldnt see it's a building, there isn't one person on Earth who would know it's windows and balconies.

h6CDG0B.jpg

And people were wondering/mad how much higher the PC requirements are compared to consoles...

The RT reflections on PS5 render at half (or was it even just a quarter?) of the native res and are then upscaled using checkerboard rendering. On top of that the reflected objects have lower complexity, or are even missing completely. All of that to save as much performance as possible, because that's just how "capable" RDNA2 is when it comes to RT. I still remember someone here on Neogaf had the balls to call Insomniac's solution the "industry leading, state of the art RT" LMFAO.

It's kind of a bummer that the "next-gen" consoles are already pretty much gen behind, if not two, because honestly, what's the point of RT of you have to tone it down so much?
 
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01011001

Banned
And people were wondering/mad how much higher the PC requirements are compared to consoles...

The RT reflections on PS5 render at half (or was it even just a quarter?) of the native res and are then upscaled using checkerboard rendering. On top of that the reflected objects have lower complexity, or are even missing completely. All of that to save as much performance as possible, because that's just how "capable" RDNA2 is when it comes to RT. I still remember someone here on Neogaf had the balls to call Insomniac's solution the "industry leading, state of the art RT" LMFAO.

It's kind of a bummer that the "next-gen" consoles are already pretty much gen behind, if not two, because honestly, what's the point of RT of you have to tone it down so much?

AMD's RT hardware will indeed be an issue longterm on console.
I wonder if anyone has tried this on GTX10 series cards. some games allow for RT on those cards and I would LOVE to see how the GTX1080ti would handle the raytracing at console like settings.

I really hope it is compatible with them, I love when weird stuff like that can be experimented with on PC 😃

with Watch Dogs Legion pushing up to 1080p 40fps on ultra RT settings on the 1080ti I could see that card being viable to use RT with in Spider-Man
 
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octiny

Banned
You do realize that SSR can't do what's in those screenshots AT ALL? Because that reflected building is not in screen space. There would literally be no reflection, just a fallback cubemap (like when playing the game in the non-RT mode.

Exactly! Hence the "screen space".

If it can't be done correctly then I rather have not have it at all, simply not worth the performance cost (talking about RT reflections). SSR can be applied in many places especially near/at ground level or simply swinging straight through. I'll be interested in seeing how good their SSR implementation is. Even in places they can't or simply didn't, the sad part is it's not half bad. Floating character vs PS2 level detail. It's pIck your poison at that point, I'll take FPS gain.

lWX2qXp.jpg


Weirdly that looks like the high setting on pc so the very high setting seems to be a noticeable amp

It looks to be medium to me from a few videos I saw but there's been so many patches it's hard to tell at this point which is which & what settings if any they changed to reflect new corresponding values/names.
 
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Bragr

Banned
This story lol, when he's sitting on the top of some house in the city while the bad guys are killing civilians and destroying the city, and he worries about Mary Jane and their relationship, jesus. Why do multi-million dollar games never care about who they hire to write their massive multi-year projects?
 

yamaci17

Member
ive heard this game is really cpu bound and when reviewers are using a ps5 equivalent cpu the 3700x they are having massive problems with stuttering
those CPUs need console equivalent settings, since they're near PS5 levels in terms of performance (i'm not saying matching or anything, i just say they're close)

pushing max ray tracing settings on 3700x/2700x will cause performance issues as they would on PS5. max rt settings have a huge BHV cost

of course you can still rely on VRR and enable it, i'm just talking for a locked, smooth 60 fps
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Exactly! Hence the "screen space".

If it can't be done correctly then I rather have not have it at all, simply not worth the performance cost (talking about RT). SSR can be applied in many places especially near/at ground level or simply swinging straight through. I'll be interested in seeing how good their SSR implementation is. Even in places they can't, the sad part is it's not half bad. Floating character vs PS2 level. It's pIck your poison at that point, I'll take FPS gain.

lWX2qXp.jpg




It looks to be the medium to me from a few videos I saw but there's been so many patches it's hard to tell at this point which is which & what settings if any they changed to reflect new values/names.

The worst thing about the cubemap solution, apart from it not actually reflecting the scene of course, is that you get one static cubemap at the bottom of buildings, which then rather abruptly switches to a different one further up. Looks very jarring when climbing up a reflective building. Even the low-quality RT in the PS5 version looks MUCH better than that.
 
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rofif

Banned
And people were wondering/mad how much higher the PC requirements are compared to consoles...

The RT reflections on PS5 render at half (or was it even just a quarter?) of the native res and are then upscaled using checkerboard rendering. On top of that the reflected objects have lower complexity, or are even missing completely. All of that to save as much performance as possible, because that's just how "capable" RDNA2 is when it comes to RT. I still remember someone here on Neogaf had the balls to call Insomniac's solution the "industry leading, state of the art RT" LMFAO.

It's kind of a bummer that the "next-gen" consoles are already pretty much gen behind, if not two, because honestly, what's the point of RT of you have to tone it down so much?
this is some random compressed screenshot. I would wait for Real comparison with more context
 

01011001

Banned
this is some random compressed screenshot. I would wait for Real comparison with more context

RT reflections on PS5 can look even worse than what's seen in that screenshot.

they basically vary between PS2 quality (seen in said screenshot) and N64 quality on some of the less detailed rooftops.

that's also not a random compressed screenshot, that's directly from an Insomniac guy posting it on twitter to show improvements for the PC version


edit:
I fired up Miles Morales real quick and took 2 screenshots
which shows exactly what I mean, on the ground level it's often PS2-esque, and some higher up scenes will give you N64 flashbacks

(presented in full 4K btw, no compression)
1828c82219399-screensytema.png


1828c824f3078-screensbxcbg.png
 
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ZywyPL

Banned
this is some random compressed screenshot. I would wait for Real comparison with more context

The console version has been put for some time already tho, the compromises akready jad been made. PC on the other jand, again - just looking at the requirements alone - will just brute force proper RT.
 

octiny

Banned
The worst thing about the cubemap solution, apart from it not actually reflecting the scene of course, is that you get one static cubemap at the bottom of buildings, which then rather abruptly switches to a different one further up. Looks very jarring when climbing up a reflective building. Even the low-quality RT in the PS5 version looks MUCH better than that.

To each his own, I'd find it more jarring to see PS2 level detail in a current gen game trying to recreate RT reflections but failing to accurately reflect what's actually being rendered in the game, especially taking into account the performance cost. Reducing resolution within the RT reflection is one thing but the castration of said reflection in detail/geometry is another.
 

rofif

Banned
RT reflections on PS5 can look even worse than what's seen in that screenshot.

they basically vary between PS2 quality (seen in said screenshot) and N64 quality on some of the less detailed rooftops.

that's also not a random compressed screenshot, that's directly from an Insomniac guy posting it on twitter to show improvements for the PC version


edit:
I fired up Miles Morales real quick and took 2 screenshots
which shows exactly what I mean, on the ground level it's often PS2-esque, and some higher up scenes will give you N64 flashbacks

(presented in full 4K btw, no compression)
1828c82219399-screensytema.png


1828c824f3078-screensbxcbg.png
Interesting. Df made it sound better. I’ve not played it myself yet
 
RT reflections on PS5 can look even worse than what's seen in that screenshot.

they basically vary between PS2 quality (seen in said screenshot) and N64 quality on some of the less detailed rooftops.

that's also not a random compressed screenshot, that's directly from an Insomniac guy posting it on twitter to show improvements for the PC version


edit:
I fired up Miles Morales real quick and took 2 screenshots
which shows exactly what I mean, on the ground level it's often PS2-esque, and some higher up scenes will give you N64 flashbacks

(presented in full 4K btw, no compression)
1828c82219399-screensytema.png


1828c824f3078-screensbxcbg.png
Jennifer Lawrence Oops GIF
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
And people were wondering/mad how much higher the PC requirements are compared to consoles...

The RT reflections on PS5 render at half (or was it even just a quarter?) of the native res and are then upscaled using checkerboard rendering. On top of that the reflected objects have lower complexity, or are even missing completely. All of that to save as much performance as possible, because that's just how "capable" RDNA2 is when it comes to RT. I still remember someone here on Neogaf had the balls to call Insomniac's solution the "industry leading, state of the art RT" LMFAO.

It's kind of a bummer that the "next-gen" consoles are already pretty much gen behind, if not two, because honestly, what's the point of RT of you have to tone it down so much?

The RT in R&C looks a lot better if I remember correctly, but of course it's used much more sparingly and doesn't have to reflect as much stuff.
 

rofif

Banned
the way they are done was the correct choice for the game and hardware combo for sure, but many people were really overselling them.
I could play max setting rt on 3080 probably but I’ve already have ps5 version in backlog… well at least dualsense features work without having to be plugged in on console.
And it’s too expensive on pc. I would check it out for 20
 

yamaci17

Member
the way they are done was the correct choice for the game and hardware combo for sure, but many people were really overselling them.
i'd say they went overboard with resolution (which is why they were oversold to begin with). pushing native 4k/40+ fps with vrr mode with rt enabled, that can only happen if rt is really used alongside with aggresive reductions
though i can also now see why they choose that way, it would also push a lot of burden towards the CPU
 

octiny

Banned
edit:
I fired up Miles Morales real quick and took 2 screenshots
which shows exactly what I mean, on the ground level it's often PS2-esque, and some higher up scenes will give you N64 flashbacks

(presented in full 4K btw, no compression)
1828c82219399-screensytema.png


1828c824f3078-screensbxcbg.png

This triggers my OCD.

computer-monday.gif
 
I'd like to see how much closer the PC version can get to an accurate reflection as RT looks poor when you stop to look at it.

OOxJyAx.jpg


U9GjTcB.jpg


And reflections are sometimes just completely broken.

rEkglwe.jpg


Still better than cubemaps but a lot of the screenshots you see are either indoor scenes where less is going on and the RT is probably pushed a bit higher or something or very carefully framed to be flattering to the PS5.
 

yamaci17

Member
damn it looks real bad. interesting that df never exposed it this way
sure as hell their nvidia blood this time will let it all out though
 

01011001

Banned
RT reflections on PS5 can look even worse than what's seen in that screenshot.

they basically vary between PS2 quality (seen in said screenshot) and N64 quality on some of the less detailed rooftops.

that's also not a random compressed screenshot, that's directly from an Insomniac guy posting it on twitter to show improvements for the PC version


edit:
I fired up Miles Morales real quick and took 2 screenshots
which shows exactly what I mean, on the ground level it's often PS2-esque, and some higher up scenes will give you N64 flashbacks

(presented in full 4K btw, no compression)
1828c82219399-screensytema.png


1828c824f3078-screensbxcbg.png

as a quick comparison and to showcase tradeoffs developers have to choose from here's a screenshot I just took in Watch Dogs Legion (SX version in this case)

68f3f189-934e-45f7-be2tipa.png


what you see here is of course way more detail in everything that is reflected, more comparable to what we saw in the PC shot of Spider-Man.
you can see and make out individual tiles on the ground, even scattered papers are reflected, and the facade of the building across the street is decently detailed.

but if you look to the left you can see that the distant buildings are just super low quality blobs.

so Ubisoft chose near distance quality over draw distance.

which is what I mean when I said in other comments that both games chose the correct settings for their specific needs on this limited hardware they are running on.

in Spider-Man you are way more likely to be high up, running and swinging by gigantic reflective surfaces. so it's very important for the whole city to reflect in a somewhat presentable way.

so they neglected close range detail for distant detail


in Watch Dogs, which is set in London, you aren't constantly looking into extremely reflective skyscrapers and you are more likely to climb up a smaller building in an alley or stealth through an office with lots of reflective floors etc., which means it's better to have this small alley and/or indoors area reflected in as much detail as possible.

so they neglected distant detail for close range detail
 
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mansoor1980

Member
I'd like to see how much closer the PC version can get to an accurate reflection as RT looks poor when you stop to look at it.

OOxJyAx.jpg


U9GjTcB.jpg


And reflections are sometimes just completely broken.

rEkglwe.jpg


Still better than cubemaps but a lot of the screenshots you see are either indoor scenes where less is going on and the RT is probably pushed a bit higher or something or very carefully framed to be flattering to the PS5.
is that last screen on max settings?
looks like it is from the ps5 version
 
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rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
I'd like to see how much closer the PC version can get to an accurate reflection as RT looks poor when you stop to look at it.

OOxJyAx.jpg


U9GjTcB.jpg


And reflections are sometimes just completely broken.

rEkglwe.jpg


Still better than cubemaps but a lot of the screenshots you see are either indoor scenes where less is going on and the RT is probably pushed a bit higher or something or very carefully framed to be flattering to the PS5.
Wtf happened on the second screen? LoD transition bug?
 

Mister Wolf

Member
I would bet that Insomniac's is less taxing tho as it was originally designed for PS4 Pro

I remember guys on this forum pumping it up like it was better than Unreal's TAAU. It's crazy how people gas up things that are exclusive. For all my DLSS brethren, has anyone else been using Nvidia's Sharpen+ alongside it?
 
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01011001

Banned
I remember guys on this forum pumping it up like it was better than Unreal's TAAU. It's crazy how people gas up things that are exclusive.

it works better in some games than in others.

It was originally implemented into the Ratchet and Clank remake, and in that game it actually could sometimes look like native 4K
in Spider-Man it's less successful
 

TrebleShot

Member
I’ve been back and forth on spending a lot of money on a serious gaming PC, 3090 Ti or wait for a 4090 but honestly I’m not seeing the value proposition here.

I can play this at very high fidelity on my PS5 already and spending 3k+ for higher res RT that you absolutely won’t notice in gameplay is a bit of a wake up call for me.

Think I’ll wait until there’s a significant bump in graphical fidelity that is significantly gimped on PS5. Or I’ll just get a PS5 pro when it’s announced.

I was so so close to creating a thread for advice on my build too.
 

replicant-

Member
I’ve been back and forth on spending a lot of money on a serious gaming PC, 3090 Ti or wait for a 4090 but honestly I’m not seeing the value proposition here.

I can play this at very high fidelity on my PS5 already and spending 3k+ for higher res RT that you absolutely won’t notice in gameplay is a bit of a wake up call for me.

Think I’ll wait until there’s a significant bump in graphical fidelity that is significantly gimped on PS5. Or I’ll just get a PS5 pro when it’s announced.

I was so so close to creating a thread for advice on my build too.

I wouldn't take You Tube videos as an accurate representation of PC.

I've got a PS5, Series X and PC (3080/12900k) - there is a marked difference in resolution, frames and IQ on a good PC.
 

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
I’ve been back and forth on spending a lot of money on a serious gaming PC, 3090 Ti or wait for a 4090 but honestly I’m not seeing the value proposition here.

I can play this at very high fidelity on my PS5 already and spending 3k+ for higher res RT that you absolutely won’t notice in gameplay is a bit of a wake up call for me.

Think I’ll wait until there’s a significant bump in graphical fidelity that is significantly gimped on PS5. Or I’ll just get a PS5 pro when it’s announced.

I was so so close to creating a thread for advice on my build too.
No one sane would build a PC with a 3090Ti or 4090 (or any build really) just for this game. People build for things like this game + everything the PC can do gaming related and maybe non gaming stuff too.
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
I’ve been back and forth on spending a lot of money on a serious gaming PC, 3090 Ti or wait for a 4090 but honestly I’m not seeing the value proposition here.

I can play this at very high fidelity on my PS5 already and spending 3k+ for higher res RT that you absolutely won’t notice in gameplay is a bit of a wake up call for me.

Think I’ll wait until there’s a significant bump in graphical fidelity that is significantly gimped on PS5. Or I’ll just get a PS5 pro when it’s announced.

I was so so close to creating a thread for advice on my build too.
Don't get a high-end pc for graphical fidelity alone, much less graphical fidelity on a single game. Better graphical fidelity/performance proportional to the money you spent is just one of the perks of PC's biggest advantage over console, which is being an open platform (other advantages include: mods - and i'm not talking about thomas the tank engine joke mods, unrestrained backwards compatibility, improvements for old games, lots of unique games that don't make it to consoles or take time to make it to consoles, etc).

Building a PC with top-of-the-shelf hardware is usually only worth it if the extra money spent won't make much of a difference for you.
 
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