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VGC: UK competition watchdog says it could expand Xbox Activision merger inquiry over competition concerns

Thirty7ven

Banned
Did you read the CMA ruling? That's is basically the position they are taking. They are arguing that Sony's market leading position should be protected. Which is a weird argument for a competition regulator to be making. Regulators should be about increasing competition and lowering prices for consumers. Which Microsoft putting more games on Gamepass does for consumers. It's odd for them to be caring Sony's water when Sony are raising their console price and have increased game prices to $70. Something smells funny about UK CMA postition. Its almost looking corrupt.

What’s weird is seeing people supporting the idea that with 1 very successful generation out of 3, MS should be allowed to buy market position whole sale.
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
Xbox console.
Xbox gaming with Bethedsa and Activison is not the UK anymore.


Also it's easy to shut down any concerns with one sentence by Microsoft.
"We will release EVERY single new Microsoft game on any competing platform and paying royalties, if they allow our subscription service on said platform. If we do not comply, we will pay a fine 10bn €"



It's such a clear cut case.

Isn’t that kind of dumb though? Are the games subscription exclusive or will they be released out of the subscription? There’s the answer to your clear cut case argument.

Leveraging their position to force subscription is exactly the kind of practice these government bodies are trying to prevent…
 
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Menzies

Banned
So playing the games you want when you want to play them (in addition to having permanent access to them in your library forever) is pissing away money? God forbid you spend a bit (and it is a bit, one of those games on PC is less than a meal out) for hours of entertainment that you will enjoy.

Where are we again? Is this not an enthusiast gaming forum? Or is this now a gamepass daycare center?
Maybe not every enthusiast is as cashed up as you, and want to spend their money on games that they know full well won’t just arrive into the service they’re already subscribed? I would sooner purchase Playstation or Nintendo exclusives than something I'm assured of getting access to.
 

Putonahappyface

Gold Member
How very dare you sir!

We're led from the top by our peerless first among equals


UnmTgPE.png
Soon.

v3SB9bu.png
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
So playing the games you want when you want to play them (in addition to having permanent access to them in your library forever) is pissing away money? God forbid you spend a bit (and it is a bit, one of those games on PC is less than a meal out) for hours of entertainment that you will enjoy.

Where are we again? Is this not an enthusiast gaming forum? Or is this now a gamepass daycare center?

These are the folks that will allow Davos to succeed with their “own nothing be happy” strategy.
 

FlyyGOD

Member
Why does Microsoft an American company buying Activision another American company need approval from any other country besides America?
 

MikeM

Member
Call of duty being in game pass will be a huge blow to Sony. People willingly buy COD at full price every year. Sony would be insane to not fight and avoid letting that happen.

But with that being said, as a game pass ultimate subscriber, of course I want Xbox to win this deal lol.
I’m not sure it will be. Most people I know basically only play COD, so ditching PS to start paying for GP for only COD alone probably won’t happen.

Now for those who play other games- maybe.
 
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GHG

Gold Member
Maybe not every enthusiast is as cashed up as you, and want to spend their money on games that they know full well won’t just arrive into the service they’re already subscribed? I would sooner purchase Playstation or Nintendo exclusives than something I'm assured of getting access to.

He's already paying for gamepass. He can easily afford those games within a couple of months.

If you're spending your time moaning about the price of (or having to buy a game in this case) then you clearly want it enough to warrant purchasing at the current price instead of waiting. He has 2 options - be bitter, moan and not play the games he wants to, or he can cancel his subscription for a couple of months and play the games he actually wants to play.

Just my 2 cents.
 

Menzies

Banned
He's already paying for gamepass. He can easily afford those games within a couple of months.

If you're spending your time moaning about the price of (or having to buy a game in this case) then you clearly want it enough to warrant purchasing at the current price instead of waiting. He has 2 options - be bitter, moan and not play the games he wants to, or he can cancel his subscription for a couple of months and play the games he actually wants to play.

Just my 2 cents.
So we are on a forum discussing things.

I'll be sure to see you never moan and complain or throw out a scarstic comment.
 

GHG

Gold Member
So we are on a forum discussing things.

I'll be sure to see you never moan and complain or throw out a scarstic comment.

I'll tell you this much, you will never see me moaning about not being able to play a game that I do infact have access to.

It defies logic.
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
Isn't that the point of increasing competition...

Increasing competition is MS forcing Sony to come out with a PS4 and banger after banger 1st party because of what the 360 did. It’s MS coming up with Gamepass in response. It’s not this Silicon Valley bs of “know what? Fuck it let’s buy the market”.

If the deal goes through, with Bethesda already in the bag, MS will own historic franchises that had nothing to do with them before. They will be in a position to leverage their position to force dozens of millions of gamers, a huge following they didn’t create.

This isn’t good for competition, it’s extremely anti competitive. They add absolutely nothing to Acti.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
What’s weird is seeing people supporting the idea that with 1 very successful generation out of 3, MS should be allowed to buy market position whole sale.

Sony literally bought 9 studios in the last year and a half, and moneyhat year(s) long time exclusive deals for prominent games.

If you're OK with one, you should not have an issue with the other either. They're both moves to gain market dominance and deny your competition the same.
 
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Thirty7ven

Banned
Sony literally bought 9 studios in the last year and a half, and moneyhat year(s) long time exclusive deals for prominent games.

If you're OK with one, you should not have an issue with the other either. They're both moves to gain market dominance and deny your competition the same.

They are nowhere near being the same and arguing so is low level talk.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
They are nowhere near being the same and arguing so is low level talk.

How are they not the same, Sony has locked down year(s) worth of prominent games from key Japanese studios and even Bethesda before MS bought them. They also have marketing deals with Activision for call of duty. All of these are power moves to deny the competition market share. Having capital to buy more studios outright is the only way MS can compete with Sony in getting these studios to make day 1 releases for their platforms. Not to mention buying more studios in 1 year than MS has done this entire generation so far.

The only weird thing is being OK when one mega corporation buys up studios and exclusive content and not being ok with it when another one does.

Come on now.
 

Menzies

Banned
Increasing competition is MS forcing Sony to come out with a PS4 and banger after banger 1st party because of what the 360 did. It’s MS coming up with Gamepass in response. It’s not this Silicon Valley bs of “know what? Fuck it let’s buy the market”.

If the deal goes through, with Bethesda already in the bag, MS will own historic franchises that had nothing to do with them before. They will be in a position to leverage their position to force dozens of millions of gamers, a huge following they didn’t create.

This isn’t good for competition, it’s extremely anti competitive. They add absolutely nothing to Acti.
I agree with some of that but let's talk about post PS4 generation and the here and now. Sony just doesn't need to fuck up royally to have a commanding lead with loyal fans. They have access to 'fair' cheap timed-exclusives and marketing rights. Pretty much get gifted exclusives for free in Japan and get paid for including cross-play.

Tell us all how the 360 playbook stands a chance at competing in the current state of affairs?

The industry seems rigged to protect the leader and it's not exactly a close race at the moment. I truly feel that these tectonic acquisitions aren't just good for competition, they're needed.
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
I agree with some of that but let's talk about post PS4 generation and the here and now. Sony just doesn't need to fuck up royally to have a commanding lead with loyal fans. They have access to 'fair' cheap timed-exclusives and marketing rights. Pretty much get gifted exclusives for free in Japan and get paid for including cross-play.

Tell us all how the 360 playbook stands a chance at competing in the current state of affairs?

The industry seems rigged to protect the leader and it's not exactly a close race at the moment. I truly feel that these tectonic acquisitions aren't just good for competition, they're needed.

How about MS gets their first party shit in order and keeps improving gamepass/Xcloud? Basically what you’re saying is that because MS keeps fucking up theirs first party they should be allowed to buy the market.

Nintendo has zero problems being so successful, yet we should act like MS is being bullied by the big meanie? Doesn’t hold water.

MS’s problem is that their playbook pre gamepass has been “let’s try to do what Sony does”
 
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Menzies

Banned
How about MS gets their first party shit in order and keeps improving gamepass/Xcloud? Basically what you’re saying is that because MS keeps fucking up theirs first party they should be allowed to buy the market.
Not really what I said at all. On the contrary weren't they just publisher of the year or some shit?

Edit: Sony feels the heat of competition so much that they increased prices. That should say enough.
 
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Thirty7ven

Banned
Not really what I said at all. On the contrary weren't they just publisher of the year or some shit?

Lol ok man, because of games they bought late in development. Whatever man, if you want to chill a 69 billion acquisition by a company like MS then go for it. Definition of financial doping, the Xbox division didn’t generate that kind of money in three generations.
 

Menzies

Banned
Lol ok man, because of games they bought late in development. Whatever man, if you want to chill a 69 billion acquisition by a company like MS then go for it. Definition of financial doping, the Xbox division didn’t generate that kind of money in three generations.
You're all over the place. Well go on then, have at it.

Tell us all your plan for how exactly Microsoft claws back even marketshare?

You've told us all what your ethic and moral code doesn't allow them to do, so what are you allowing them to do? They can't even buy studios at an even parity to you.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
How are they not the same, Sony has locked down year(s) worth of prominent games from key Japanese studios and even Bethesda before MS bought them. They also have marketing deals with Activision for call of duty. All of these are power moves to deny the competition market share. Having capital to buy more studios outright is the only way MS can compete with Sony in getting these studios to make day 1 releases for their platforms. Not to mention buying more studios in 1 year than MS has done this entire generation so far.

The only weird thing is being OK when one mega corporation buys up studios and exclusive content and not being ok with it when another one does.

Come on now.
kFPfnFa.jpg


You. Apparently.

I don’t discriminate when it comes to acquisitions, you’re either for them or against them - and it doesn’t matter if Jim Ryan personally organically grew the studio in his vegetable patch at the back of his house.

However you’re just posting in bad faith.
 

Dane

Member
Increasing competition is MS forcing Sony to come out with a PS4 and banger after banger 1st party because of what the 360 did. It’s MS coming up with Gamepass in response. It’s not this Silicon Valley bs of “know what? Fuck it let’s buy the market”.

If the deal goes through, with Bethesda already in the bag, MS will own historic franchises that had nothing to do with them before. They will be in a position to leverage their position to force dozens of millions of gamers, a huge following they didn’t create.

This isn’t good for competition, it’s extremely anti competitive. They add absolutely nothing to Acti.
I can do the same argument for Sony moneyhatting Ghostwire and Deathloop and even trying for Starfield, they didn't participate into BGS and even Arkane foray into consoles, it was Microsoft . Call of Duty was very associated with Xbox 360 for the entire generation.
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
You're all over the place. Well go on then, have at it.

Tell us all your plan for how exactly Microsoft claws back even marketshare?

You've told us all what your ethic and moral code doesn't allow them to do, so what are you allowing them to do? They can't even buy studios at an even parity to you.

Make a better product, buy independent studios. Create IP. Bid for exclusive content. That’s how it should be, not this shit you seem to think is competition.
 
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GHG

Gold Member
Edit: Sony feels the heat of competition so much that they increased prices. That should say enough.

So when apple increase their prices its because they feel the heat of the competition? Think about what you're saying for a second here.

It's called pricing power and every singe business in the world that has confidence in their product does it.

Doesn't benefit us in any way but it is what it is. People are free to take it or leave it. Time will tell whether or not their products are as price inelastic as they think they are.
 
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Kagey K

Banned
LMAO at this guy making up rules for how companies in a free market should operate and compete with one another. What's next, you're going to set standards for how I should cook my steaks too?

funkmaster flex reality tv GIF
By his logic Sony should have shut down PlayStation during the PS3, because it was being propped up by and burning through all the money being made by the Financial division.

The parent company shouldn't be allowed to support its divisions with money made from other divisions. 🤣

Some fuckin logic right there.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
kFPfnFa.jpg


You. Apparently.

I don’t discriminate when it comes to acquisitions, you’re either for them or against them - and it doesn’t matter if Jim Ryan personally organically grew the studio in his vegetable patch at the back of his house.

However you’re just posting in bad faith.

You're completely missing the part about buying exclusivity to prominent games and IP on top of more studio purchases.

It's not a singular thing, it's a combination of multiple things which a lot of folks are happy to overlook while scrutinizing the shit out of others.

It's not bad faith, it's really the only way MS can realistically compete in a market there Sony are denying games from their platforms even without the need to buy studios.
 

Menzies

Banned
So when apple increase their prices its because they feel the heat of the competition? Think about what you're saying for a second here.

It's called pricing power and every singe business in the world that has confidence in their product does it.

Doesn't benefit us in any way but it is what it is. People are free to take it or leave it. Time will tell whether or not their products are as price inelastic as they think they are.
I would argue you would need to be the clear and outright market leader or own a premium product to have this pricing power.

Unless you can cite examples of a business competing in a market languishing with low profit margins or demonstrably outsold in every market, raising prices before the competition?
 

kirby007

Member
I find it funny when looking at actual output i'd worry more about embracer and tencent but then again, those just do hundreds smaller deals so it aint as interesting
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
I would argue you would need to be the clear and outright market leader or own a premium product to have this pricing power.

Unless you can cite examples of a business competing in a market languishing with low profit margins or demonstrably outsold in every market, raising prices before the competition?

PS5 price increase wasn’t made in a vacuum, it follows a worldwide trend in many markets.

If anything you could argue that only MS could look at what’s happening and take a big sized hit like it’s nothing, and they were already taking a hit.

Nintendo makes profit on their hardware day 1 if that’s your argument.
 

GHG

Gold Member
I would argue you would need to be the clear and outright market leader or own a premium product to have this pricing power.

Unless you can cite examples of a business competing in a market languishing with low profit margins or demonstrably outsold in every market, raising prices before the competition?

So now the playstation business is being "demonstrably" outsold in every market? It's interesting because there are other people citing playstation being the market leader as a reason why Xbox are harmless and as such this Activision Bilizzard deal must go through without scrutiny.

The profit margins don't come from the console itself in the console gaming space BTW, the profit margins are gained elsewhere (software, peripherals, subscriptions, etc). The console itself is the entry fee to the nightclub so to speak.

There's only one current console manufacturer that has never had the luxury to excerise pricing power, and considering how long they've been around they only have themselves to blame.
 
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Menzies

Banned
So now the playstation business is being "demonstrably" outsold in every market? It's interesting because there are other people citing playstation being the market leader as a reason why Xbox are harmless and as such this Activision Bilizzard deal must go through without scrutiny.

The profit margins don't come from the console itself in the console gaming space BTW, the profit margins are gained elsewhere (software, peripherals, subscriptions, etc). The console itself is the entry fee to the nightclub so to speak.

There's only one current console manufacturer that has never had the luxury to excerise pricing power, and considering how long they've been around they only have themselves to blame.
What? No Xbox is being outsold handily by PlayStation and they don't have this luxury. That is why I'm saying they were fine to casually stroll out and apathetically announce the price hike. "We know you are in pain with gas prices, we feel your suffering with fresh food and produce, we are here to announce we don't care pay us lol". In a competitive market you would be tense, you would wait, react and respond. Sony didn't appear to have any of these concerns, because they don't need to.

An Xbox with CoD on GamePass though...maybe they don't raise their prices with null effect.
 
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FUBARx89

Member
Ya'll still arguing the toss about this?

I'm British and I nar it's gonna pass. Our economy is in the shitter. Our govt regs are full of shit. This is all just media soundbites to try sound better than EU regs or USA regs. We won't try stop this.

We're like coming to a kindergartens lunch table and trying to show off, then realising we're at the senior lunch tablet and will quickly shut the fuck up.

I nar politics isn't allowed EviLore EviLore , but my country is toothless and baring our crooked yellow teeth for ne reason cause we don't matter now.
 

GHG

Gold Member
What? No Xbox is being outsold handily by PlayStation and they don't have this luxury. That is why I'm saying they were fine to casually stroll out and apathetically announce the price hike. "We know you are in pain with gas prices, we feel your suffering with fresh food and produce, we are here to announce we don't care pay us lol". In a competitive market you would be tense, you would wait, react and respond. Sony didn't appear to have any of these concerns, because they don't need to.

An Xbox with CoD on GamePass though...maybe they don't raise their prices with null effect.

I agree with everything you say here, I just don't understand how your previous conclusion was that they are raising prices because they feel heat so much.

Personally I don't think they feel any heat and have confidence in their product to do the talking, hence they are happy to raise the price. Its basically saying "you know what we offer, pay us, we don't care you you don't because enough people will".

Any price increase is a ballsy move and I don't think a company who fears their competition or has apprehension about what their product offers does it.

Ya'll...

I'm British

queen-of-england-queen-elizabeth-ii.gif
 

Menzies

Banned
I agree with everything you say here, I just don't understand how your previous conclusion was that they are raising prices because they feel heat so much.

Personally I don't think they feel any heat and have confidence in their product to do the talking, hence they are happy to raise the price. Its basically saying "you know what we offer, pay us, we don't care you you don't because enough people will".

Any price increase is a ballsy move and I don't think a company who fears their competition or has apprehension about what their product offers does it.
Good ol' sarcastica font missing again. Sony is feeling the heat sooo much!11! better? lol
 
  • LOL
Reactions: GHG

FUBARx89

Member
I agree with everything you say here, I just don't understand how your previous conclusion was that they are raising prices because they feel heat so much.

Personally I don't think they feel any heat and have confidence in their product to do the talking, hence they are happy to raise the price. Its basically saying "you know what we offer, pay us, we don't care you you don't because enough people will".

Any price increase is a ballsy move and I don't think a company who fears their competition or has apprehension about what their product offers does it.



queen-of-england-queen-elizabeth-ii.gif

I wish I looked that good pal. Look at that ability to look miserable.
 

Gobjuduck

Banned
These agencies exist to question and challenge. They like to make the process long to be more legitimate. It will go through, because there is no good argument against Xbox buying Activision Blizzard.

CoD isn’t the only large AAA shooter
WoW isn’t the only successful MMO
Candy Crush isn’t the only successful mobile game.
 
How are they not the same, Sony has locked down year(s) worth of prominent games from key Japanese studios and even Bethesda before MS bought them. They also have marketing deals with Activision for call of duty. All of these are power moves to deny the competition market share. Having capital to buy more studios outright is the only way MS can compete with Sony in getting these studios to make day 1 releases for their platforms. Not to mention buying more studios in 1 year than MS has done this entire generation so far.

The only weird thing is being OK when one mega corporation buys up studios and exclusive content and not being ok with it when another one does.

Come on now.
You're ignorance to what's actually going on is making you look like a clown and very low effort green warring.

Imagine comparing buying 80 billion dollar worth's of publishers to a few studios with the only big one being bungie.
🤡
 

GHG

Gold Member
Good ol' sarcastica font missing again. Sony is feeling the heat sooo much!11! better? lol

Ok I understand where you were going with that now, makes sense in that context.

I wish I looked that good pal. Look at that ability to look miserable.

The Queen does not approve of "y'all".

I've been away from the UK for a while but if that's how people speak there now then good lord...
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Imagine comparing buying 80 billion dollar worth's of publishers to a few studios with the only big one being bungie.

Imagine writing this response while ignoring half of the post about Sony buying lengthy exclusivity contracts for both major Japanese and Western games denying them from other platforms.

I won't even call that ignorance, it's willful and you're OK with it.

Wonder why 🤡

So Zinemax and Activision put themselves up for sale, but Microsoft shouldn't be allowed to buy them because it would catapult their market position to 3rd place? Folks hate for Microsoft is what's weird.

People forget both Zenimax and Activision are selling themselves voluntarily, it's not a hostile takeover.

If you trust insiders, apparently Sony was also in the running to bid on Zenimax, but MS outbid them.
 
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clarky

Gold Member
Why does Microsoft an American company buying Activision another American company need approval from any other country besides America?
Because other shit exists other than America, and its worth a lot more other than just you?
 
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Kagey K

Banned
Imagine writing this response while ignoring half of the post about Sony buying lengthy exclusivity contracts for both major Japanese and Western games denying them from other platforms.

I won't even call that ignorance, it's willful and you're OK with it.

Wonder why 🤡



People forget both Zenimax and Activision are selling themselves voluntarily, it's not a hostile takeover.

If you trust insiders, apparently Sony was also in the running to bid on Zenimax, but MS outbid them.
Remember how excited some ppl were when Sony was running around trying to buy timed exclusives for everything?

Now some of those same ppl are crying foul because MS said fuck buying the games I'm buying the devs.

Quick reninder: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/repo...ls-offered-more-money-than-microsoft.1560435/
 
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Gobjuduck

Banned
Keep the challenges coming. I want to see Sony make more embarrassing statements on how much they depend on call of duty.
 
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