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Honest Question: Do you believe Xbox Series could have been competitive this generation without gamepass?

Hot5pur

Member
If they didn't have gamepass they would have made the investments elsewhere.
On games alone, Sony win hands down, and I'm not much of a Sony fan because they prioritize "cinema" over gameplay.
Xbox exclusives are few and far in between, and the "good" ones (like Halo) are actively being destroyed by incompetent studios.
Microsoft leaned into something they do well (I guess) which is services, and given that the bulk of gaming is multi-platform and not exclusives, offering a solid game library for a ridiculously good price was a good move.
 

Kvally

Banned
With the studios they have bought and all the games that are in development, absolutely. I don't give a rats ass about Game Pass or PS Plus.
 
Probably not in all fairness, but now with Bethesda making games exclusively for them and probably Activision Blizzard, I think it will be an interesting generation in the next few years.
 

kainslayer

Neo Member
If m$ would invest 80billion$ in creating new games and bought few studios circa 2015,then without gamepass could be second at least,but they don't care about that kind of investment
 
That is a very good question by the opening poster... I would say "absolutely not" as I believe GamePass just gets around the Xbox's biggest problem and that is its lack of exclusive platform-selling games. Since launch, it has had Halo Infinite, which is okay but 343 clearly struggled with it and still are (the abandoned split-screen mode for example) and the lacklustre The Medium but nothing else of note and won't have either until sometime in 2023.

Sure, the PS5 hasn't had many exclusives this generation either but at least it has some and when I think of the PlayStation brand I think of games like Gran Turismo, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, Returnal, Uncharted 4, God of War, The Last of Us Part 1/2, Final Fantasy VII Remake, Demon's Souls etc; all great games, many single player which I prefer, that give Sony's platform its unique identity that sets it apart from the Xbox. I could say the same thing about the Nintendo Switch with its own exclusives too, although I wish its hardware was more capable...

The Xbox though... well I own the Xbox Series X, which I only bought a year after launch and then only for VRR support for third-party games (at the time the PS5 lacked this feature), but, honestly, it feels more like a PC than a console with most of its games being indie and third-party titles. The few exclusives it has (Gears of War, Halo, Forza) are fine but I can play them on PC. The Xbox Series X is a cheap gaming PC in a small-form factor really; great if that is what you want, but it lacks the identity/branding that the Sony and Nintendo consoles have.

GamePass is without a doubt great value, especially if you have a PC too as you can play games on both with Ultimate, and in many ways it is the reason I still own the machine now the PS5 has VRR (albeit poorly implemented in comparison to Xbox Series consoles). I can try games even if I don't particularly like them and end up uninstalling most of them. I use my Xbox Series X with my 4K OLED TV and surround sound, which is an advantage over my PC which I use with a non-HDR 27" 1440p G-SYNC monitor but typically prefer to play most games on PC where I can tweak them and play at framerates above the typical 60 fps of console games.
 
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jm89

Member
If they could keep the brand alive till the activision acquisition passed and their other studios started releasing games eventually i think possibly.

But would be very tough to keep customers as gamepass is what kept them afloat the last 3 years. Also i'd imagine the gamepass vision is probably what got MS to throw billions into these acquisitions.
 
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The only generation Xbox was competitive was the one they released a year earlier and 200$ cheaper.

Even with Gamepass, as soon as Sony started to produce units enough to get close to demand (not even reaching it) it's clear Xbox is still not competitive.
 

Lognor

Banned
The only generation Xbox was competitive was the one they released a year earlier and 200$ cheaper.

Even with Gamepass, as soon as Sony started to produce units enough to get close to demand (not even reaching it) it's clear Xbox is still not competitive.
It is tough. Especially compared to last gen. We'll see the gen end closer to the 360/ps3 split than the Xbox one/ps4 split. Xbox is moving in the right direction. And once Activision is closed we will really start to see that gap shrink. They don't have to be the market leader (Nintendo) to be competitive.
 
It is tough. Especially compared to last gen. We'll see the gen end closer to the 360/ps3 split than the Xbox one/ps4 split. Xbox is moving in the right direction. And once Activision is closed we will really start to see that gap shrink. They don't have to be the market leader (Nintendo) to be competitive.
Nintendo has surpassed Playstation's userbase and monthly players? Source?
 

supernova8

Banned
For a moment assuming VGChartz is accurate, PS5m is at 23m units and Xbox Series X/S are at 17m so I suppose it depends on how you define "competitive". One could say "it's still early days" but...

I'd spin it like: Xbox Series is still unable to keep up with PS5 despite having a "low cost" (subjective, I know) subscription service that includes all their first party games day one.
Or put differently, more people would rather pay full price per game on Playstation 5 than get an Xbox Series console and have a Game Pass subscription.

So logically if there was no Game Pass then the people who picked Playstation 5 would still go PS5, but some of the Game Pass lovers might also go PS5 since there would be no Game Pass to love.
 
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reinking

Gold Member
The XBSX has become my Game Pass machine but I think it could still be successful without Game Pass if MS was still giving the same support. I believe Halo, Forza and the way MS has been able to improve previous gen games would have been enough to keep their hardcore base. Throw in buying up Acti-Blizz for a brighter future and people would still be buying in. Also, a cheaper Series S and supply chain issues keeping Sony in check.

I think next gen is going to be the real test for the Xbox brand and console. They have invested a lot of money and should start expecting returns in the investment. I am interested to see how those investments shape their business. Do they gain momentum in the console space? Or, will Game Pass and PC take over enough to make the next gen console their last true console?
 

Jaybe

Member
Do you think if Microsoft had still bought all the studios it currently has, (inxile, obsidian, ninja theory, compulsion, Bethesda,etc) that it could have went toe to toe with Nintendo and Sony
Good question and thought experiment. Fundamentally the acquisition investment spree and Game Pass are so linked though. Phil convinced Satya of being the Netflix of Gaming leveraging the cloud to stream to 2 billion gamers. The problem was content and that opened up the corporate wallet, netting the aforementioned companies. If there wasn’t a longterm, high growth angle, I’d hate to see what state Xbox would be in now. Certainly no Bethesda or Activision. Satya even referenced metaverse regarding ABK, anything that can spin the investment as high growth potential to the street. But let’s say the acquisitions aren’t linked and game pass doesn’t exist. What helps Xbox this gen is Xbox Series S being the budget console, Xbox Series X being technically better on paper, great backwards compatibility making it an easy upgrade if you’re in their ecosystem, and the supply chain issues affecting the industry (which is holding Sony back from a bigger lead). Without Game Pass, Xbox would still be in third place and I can’t see how would be gaining share. As PS5 supply picks up, it will be an interesting holiday/6 months to see if Xboxes sell well.
 

deriks

4-Time GIF/Meme God
SS no, SX, yes

Still, Microsoft thought the machines with the GamePass in mind, so it's all good
 

Gambit2483

Member
Publishers don't want to put games on Xbox with getting the game pass bag? What the heck are you talking about? Please tell me which games have skipped xbox because they weren't offered the game pass bag? It never happened. You literally just made that up. Like lol
Yes, mostly Japanese publishers

SquareEnix has skipped out on releasing many games on Xbox

Also, Atlus would have skipped out on releasing Persona 5, 4 and 3 if it wasn't on Gamepass as would have Koei Tecmo with Wo Long.

Then there's SEGA with the Yakuza games. They would have definitely skipped Xbox if they didn't get a Gamepass deal (i.e. money).

Team Cherry most likely started developing Silksong for Xbox once MS dropped a Gamepass bag on their table...should I go on?
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
I think they were on shaky ground before shifting focus to GP. Especially if you consider the fact that without GP there might not have been a purchase of Bethesda or Activision. They made a bold move to change strategies and it seems to be paying off nicely for them. XSS was a bold move as well which has also had positive results.
 

GymWolf

Member
First 2 years? Probably no chance, but starting from 2023 (or 2024) i think people already forgot how many big ass brands they own now.

Cod
Elder scroll\fallout\starfield
All the blizzard stuff
Fucking doom
And many many others.


These games are gonna be successful with or without gamepass.
 
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dorkimoe

Member
Not a chance. I have both systems. Always preferred playing on Xbox over ps but without gamepass this gen I don’t know if I’d be gaming at all
 

Lognor

Banned
Yes, mostly Japanese publishers

SquareEnix has skipped out on releasing many games on Xbox

Also, Atlus would have skipped out on releasing Persona 5, 4 and 3 if it wasn't on Gamepass as would have Koei Tecmo with Wo Long.

Then there's SEGA with the Yakuza games. They would have definitely skipped Xbox if they didn't get a Gamepass deal (i.e. money).

Team Cherry most likely started developing Silksong for Xbox once MS dropped a Gamepass bag on their table...should I go on?
SE has skipped out because Sony, not Microsoft, is paying them. Those Japanese games weren't coming to Xbox BEFORE Game Pass. So no, Game Pass has nothing to do with it.

Atlus is a terrible example. They have been very selective on where they release games for decades. You cannot say that without Game Pass it wouldn't be on Xbox. You can assume that, but you have no evidence to suggest it.

Same with Wo Long. It's a new IP that Sony did pay for (unlike Rise of Ronin). That is why it's on Xbox. I'm sure KT would want that game on everything that could play it. So again, strong disagree there.

I'm not sure about Sega and Yakuza. You might be correct on that

And Team Cherry? The first game was on Xbox without Game Pass. You honestly think Team Cherry would have skipped Xbox without Game Pass?! What?! That's insane. MS does a lot more for indies than Sony. No way would they have skipped Xbox. Dude, you are really reaching and completely wrong. Yikes.

Nintendo has surpassed Playstation's userbase and monthly players? Source?
Nintendo has sold more Switches than Sony has sold PS5's (and will soon pass PS4). Nintendo has sold significantly more software that Sony in the trailing 12 months. The number of Switch games over 10m is ridiculous. How many exist on the PS4/5? Probably cant count on one hand. Revenues are comparable, but Sony sells more expensive software and hardware.
 
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64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
The only generation Xbox was competitive was the one they released a year earlier and 200$ cheaper.
What about the generation where they released a year after with more powerful hardware and an online service? Granted, the PS2 stomped it in sales but Xbox was very competitive back then and had a very compelling exclusive library
 
What about the generation where they released a year after with more powerful hardware and an online service? Granted, the PS2 stomped it in sales but Xbox was very competitive back then and had a very compelling exclusive library
For sure. And they didn't have nearly as many studios. I always say the first few Xbox years are terribly underrated. They also had bigger Japanese support back then even more than now if i remember it right. Or maybe it's just nostalgia playing tricks on me. I feel people barely mention the OG because 360 was bigger, but MS started quite strong in this business.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
For sure. And they didn't have nearly as many studios. I always say the first few Xbox years are terribly underrated. They also had bigger Japanese support back then even more than now if i remember it right. Or maybe it's just nostalgia playing tricks on me. I feel people barely mention the OG because 360 was bigger, but MS started quite strong in this business.
They did, intact most Sega games were exclusive to Xbox for the first few years like jet set radio, Sega gt and panzer dragoon. Not to mention they had dead or alive and Ninja Gaiden as exclusives. It's crazy how Japanese developers were all on board and had a great relationship (despite the awful Japanese launch), but they bungled it with late 360 and now the best Xbox is getting are ports of 6 year old Playstation games.
 
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I think so. Because ultimately, GamePass or not, you still need the most important thing: games. High-quality games variety and, as a platform holder, at least some games that can say are leading the industry as an example in one way or another.

It would have taken Microsoft time to begin solidifying that, and I think without GamePass we probably wouldn't have them out here trying to buy ABK, but if they got the ball rolling with FH5, if Halo Infinite didn't turn into a disaster, and if stuff like Starfield, RedFall, Fable, Avowed, Hellblade II, Perfect Dark etc. showed clear gains and consistent high quality...that would be enough to start getting a lot of people outside of the brand to consider it as an additional option.

Maybe trying to look at this through the question of if Xbox could've competed head-on with PlayStation this gen without GamePass because if you mean "compete" in terms of challenging them for marketshare then no that wasn't going to be possible. Even with GamePass there's little probability Microsoft can catch up to let alone beat Sony's market share, and the only way they're going to be able to close the gap in revenue is by buying giant publishers and absorbing their revenue streams into Xbox's.

However, "competing" doesn't mean the results have to be evenly matched, it just means that the effort has to be genuine. OG Xbox was a genuine effort and resulted in a phenomenon in Halo and a ton of really cool, somewhat more hardcore, niche AAA & AA games including a few surprises from Japanese publishers & developers. Sure it was vastly outsold by PS2, but that doesn't mean it didn't compete and didn't have some good results of its own. The spirit of the competition they had at that time, or with most of the 360 gen, that's the comeptitive spirit I respect most and is still peak Xbox so I don't get the people who keep saying the Xbox of this generation is "stronger" now than at any previous point because in so many ways that is still simply not true, and I doubt it ever will be.

The question I guess is if GamePass is partly to blame for this feeling....I still need a few more examples before answering.

They don't hold a candle because they don't have a console like Sony does. But Sony's clearly pushing up PlayStation Plus as an alternative and look what's happening. They're getting the heavy hitters like Assassin's creed, Yakuza, (keep in mind they're getting the ENTIRE yakuza series instead of just a rotation of the remakes + Yakuza 0 and Yakuza 3-6) and Final Fantasy 7 Remake.

They have the more popular console, so companies are running to try and immediately get their best games on their service, likely charging less than how much it did for MS to get them on Game pass.

Xbox will still have a MASSIVE amount to compete with... if their first parties can produce enough games to keep the service fresh. Seeing how we're going to go an ENTIRE YEAR with 0 new first party content, i think you can see how that's working out.
Until they can get the gears turning like Sony currently does with their well-oiled exclusive machine, The subscription wars will be an uphill battle for Microsoft.

Speaking on that last part....what we're seeing from Sony's 1P these days is the result of almost 15 years worth of build-up among their internal studios and technology teams, among relationships with with 3P partners as well. GOW Ragnarok's not only building upon lessons & techniques learned from GOW 2018, but also Spiderman, and Ghosts of Tsushima, and TLOU Part 2, Uncharted 4, The Order, Bloodborne etc. Not to mention interpreting things gleamed from various 3P games over the years, too. The same can be said for their other recent and upcoming 1P releases, as well.

All of these games have been building upon very solid foundations over multiple iterations, releases over multiple years, and studio leadership & organization has grown along with that. You don't just suddenly go from making a two-bit game to a TLOU Part 2, that's why I think people expecting MS 1P to suddenly rival or beat a lot of these Sony marquee 1P AAA games need to temper their expectations. No doubt we're going to get some really solid stuff from at least a few of MS's teams, like Hellblade II for example. But most of their teams have not been consistent in the way, say, Playground Games or Turn 10 have, and those are very specialized teams with a specific genre niche (racing games). That's without even bringing the Sony teams like Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Guerrilla Games, Sony Santa Monica, Sucker Punch etc. into the discussion.

Maybe we can see something like Microsoft's GOW Ragnarok, TLOU Part 2 etc. equivalents by the end of this generation, but it's going to require consistent quality and improvement from a few of the key studios suited to deliver those types of games, and right now the main one for me in that regard would be Ninja Theory. Can we get a few games from MS this gen that are truly mainstream, clearly pushing the boundaries of what a AAA games can offer, have characters & story that connect with huge audiences like big blockbuster films? We'll see, because I'm not doubting they'll have quality games, particularly if we're talking racing games or RTS titles.
 
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64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
The question I guess is if GamePass is partly to blame for this feeling....I still need a few more examples before answering.
Absolutely. Gamepass is a major reason as to why Xbox doesn't feel it needs to try with first party anymore, because even if your first party is nonexistent, you can sweeten the deal by offering games other publishers have made at a cheap price. It's a smart strategy but one that isn't a true substitute for a lack of compelling exclusives, like putting a bandaid on a leak instead of using flex tape.

Before Xbox even had gamepass they had much better exclusives, even the early xbone had ori, rivals of aether, cuphead and sunset overdrive as well as quantum break. But now we've got it and they just don't really try as much anymore. There is a clear difference.
 
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johnjohn

Member
No. Without Game Pass, Xbox would probably be gone. All these acquisitions and massive expansions are because of Game Pass. Game Pass pretty much singlehandedly saved the Xbox brand and put them in the great position they're in now.

Absolutely. Gamepass is a major reason as to why Xbox doesn't feel it needs to try with first party anymore, because even if your first party sucks you can sweeten the deal by offering games other publishers have made at a cheap price. It's a smart strategy but one that isn't a true substitute for a lack of compelling exclusives, like putting a bandaid on a leak instead of using flex tape.

Before Xbox even had gamepass they had much better exclusives, even the early xbone had ori, rivals of aether, cuphead and sunset overdrive as well as quantum break. But now we've got it and they just don't really try as much anymore. There is a clear difference.
But Game Pass is the reason that Xbox has so many big exclusives in development. Xbox literally has more first party exclusives in development than Sony and Nintendo.
 
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SenkiDala

Member
Without Gamepass ? No... At least not without meaningful exclusives like it's the case currently, with many exclusives like in the OG Xbox and 360 era, sure why not, the hardware is awesome, but not with the exclusives we have now.
 

boo

Gold Member
Yes, of course. Thank you for your honest question, were you had no idea what the answers would be like.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
However, "competing" doesn't mean the results have to be evenly matched, it just means that the effort has to be genuine. OG Xbox was a genuine effort and resulted in a phenomenon in Halo and a ton of really cool, somewhat more hardcore, niche AAA & AA games including a few surprises from Japanese publishers & developers. Sure it was vastly outsold by PS2, but that doesn't mean it didn't compete and didn't have some good results of its own. The spirit of the competition they had at that time, or with most of the 360 gen, that's the comeptitive spirit I respect most and is still peak Xbox so I don't get the people who keep saying the Xbox of this generation is "stronger" now than at any previous point because in so many ways that is still simply not true, and I doubt it ever will be.
Man, this is the kind of insight I like to see on here. Everything you said was straight facts.

I don't want Xbox to surpass Playstation in market share or sales or whatever, I don't care about sales or any of that bullshit. I just want Xbox to do better. They have a better ecosystem than PlayStation, they have a great service, and they've been expanding their overall services. They put all of this effort in but then they neglect what matters the most.
 

AJUMP23

Gold Member
I haven't bought a sony box yet, but I bought a MS box because I had GP. I think having GP is part of their marketing strategy and they have spent years building to it. It is integral to their platform now. Market differentiation, because looking at their game landscape they knew they would not have the tentpoles that Sony does.
 

Gambit2483

Member
SE has skipped out because Sony, not Microsoft, is paying them. Those Japanese games weren't coming to Xbox BEFORE Game Pass. So no, Game Pass has nothing to do with it.

Atlus is a terrible example. They have been very selective on where they release games for decades. You cannot say that without Game Pass it wouldn't be on Xbox. You can assume that, but you have no evidence to suggest it.

Same with Wo Long. It's a new IP that Sony did pay for (unlike Rise of Ronin). That is why it's on Xbox. I'm sure KT would want that game on everything that could play it. So again, strong disagree there.

I'm not sure about Sega and Yakuza. You might be correct on that

And Team Cherry? The first game was on Xbox without Game Pass. You honestly think Team Cherry would have skipped Xbox without Game Pass?! What?! That's insane. MS does a lot more for indies than Sony. No way would they have skipped Xbox. Dude, you are really reaching and completely wrong. Yikes.


Nintendo has sold more Switches than Sony has sold PS5's (and will soon pass PS4). Nintendo has sold significantly more software that Sony in the trailing 12 months. The number of Switch games over 10m is ridiculous. How many exist on the PS4/5? Probably cant count on one hand. Revenues are comparable, but Sony sells more expensive software and hardware.
Bro I hate to burst your bubble but Xbox, worldwide is in dead last, particularly with software sales (you know the thing that matters most) and is in a distant 3rd.

The fact this particular thread exists says it all...and as much as I like my Series X, I'm not going to go back and forth with someone who has clearly lost touch with reality.

KWPAFZx.gif
 
D

Deleted member 471617

Unconfirmed Member
Yes because they still sold 60m or so Xbox One consoles with only 5 studios, just the big 3 and nothing else. Going into this generation, they had already acquired Ninja Theory, Obsidian, InXile, Double Fine, Compulsion, Playground Games, Undead Labs and Bethesda. They revealed and announced Hellblade 2, Everwild, State of Decay 3, Avowed, Forza Motorsport and Fable. At TGA 2020, they announced Perfect Dark.

With Game Pass though and Nadella being all in with gaming and Xbox, then they're even more competitive. The only major negative was that Microsoft's first party games didn't sell all that well last generation but even during Xbox 360, they didn't sell all that well either so if anything, it's just more of people not being into their games than anything else. It's why I see Microsoft as the replacement to Sega back in the day. Great exclusive games but people preferred Nintendo's exclusives games. The same can be said now where majority prefer Sony's exclusive games as they're more popular and mainstream.

Going with Game Pass in my mind is a brilliant move because there's no actual gaming subscription service that does what Microsoft does which is include all their first party games day one on the service and pays for a lot of games in general to be on the service day one. Subscriptions are huge for music, movies and TV shows. Microsoft wants to be the same but for gaming and I believe that they will succeed. They're already doing far better than I was expecting them to do two years in and like 95% of their exclusives haven't even been released yet.

So while without Game Pass, they still would have been competitive, it wouldn't be at the level or scale that it's going to be this generation. And their direction with wanting to expand Game Pass and XCloud is excellent because it's forward thinking and seeing years and decades ahead. Like I have said before, I see this generation as the transitional generation for Microsoft and Xbox brand where they build it all up, acquire a shit ton of studios and publishers and then explode when next generation starts because they'll finally be able to go into a generation already 100% prepared and ready instead of in the process of building it all up.

Personally, I have only used Game Pass for two games - Gears Tactics and Halo Infinite campaign. Unless there's a day one game for me on Game Pass that I want to play, I don't even use the service nor am I subscribed to it yet still went with Xbox Series X because for me personally, it's the better overall console brand and platform. Having first party games on Game Pass day one is great because it's guaranteed and anything else I get like A Plague Tale Requiem or Flintlock among others are just bonuses for me that add increased value to an already valuable brand, platform and eco-system and this is all before their first party exclusives start releasing which when this happens, I will have a game to play day one every three months at the very least if not every other month.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Impossible to say, because it does exist. They've based their entire ecosystem around it. If they didn't, their portfolio might look different by now, nobody can say for sure.
 
Absolutely. Gamepass is a major reason as to why Xbox doesn't feel it needs to try with first party anymore, because even if your first party sucks you can sweeten the deal by offering games other publishers have made at a cheap price. It's a smart strategy but one that isn't a true substitute for a lack of compelling exclusives, like putting a bandaid on a leak instead of using flex tape.

Before Xbox even had gamepass they had much better exclusives, even the early xbone had ori, rivals of aether, cuphead and sunset overdrive as well as quantum break. But now we've got it and they just don't really try as much anymore. There is a clear difference.

I personally wouldn't say that all of MS's 1P sucks: they do have some good games there. FH5 is a good game, Flight Sim is a good game (well, simulator), they have the Age of Empires series for RTS which are well-regarded and while it's not to a lot of people's tastes Sea of Thieves is a good game as well.

Really the problem with MS 1P is that they don't have a lot in terms of big games that are clearly appealing to the mainstream audiences. They barely have any 1P games that are industry-leading in some perceivable context (FH5 and Flight Sim are maybe the only ones that come close but are specifically relegated to open-world racers and flight simulators), and they don't have any 1P games with stories or characters that the majority clearly care about at the level of, say, stories or characters in films like Infinity War, X-Men, Batman, Top Gun, John Wick or shows like Breaking Bad, Cobra Kai, Stranger Things, Game of Thrones etc.

Sony has characters and stories/worlds at those levels. Nintendo does as well (though the stories in their games tend to be barebones). Microsoft doesn't have any. They USED to; Halo used to be at that level, but now look at it. Gears of War used to as well; it's better off than Halo ATM but the recent stories & characters clearly haven't been as invigorating to the masses as the original games were.

I think currently their best chance at building up such a property again is probably through Bethesda but the way Bethesda games tell their stories isn't conductive to the focused approach I think you need to provide the resonance and impact of stories & characters in the way Sony's big story games do, and the character & world aesthetic/design of Bethesda games aren't wholly unique in the way Nintendo's games are to stand out that way, either. That said, stuff like TES can have some complex lore and have strong writing elements there that could be used for some fantastical stories with more oomph and flair, maybe if another developer did some type of offshoot with it though.

No. Without Game Pass, Xbox would probably be gone. All these acquisitions and massive expansions are because of Game Pass. Game Pass pretty much singlehandedly saved the Xbox brand and put them in the great position they're in now.

At worst the Xbox division would've been spun off into its own company, which is what some shareholders wanted going back to 2014. Some funds from Microsoft, maybe MS owning a minority stake in the company, but otherwise it would've been independent.

In that timeline, you don't get GamePass but, IMHO you'd probably have gotten a more competitive Xbox in terms of going for exclusivity deals. You wouldn't have as much media blowback since now it'd be a genuinely smaller brand (no Daddy MS money to save them); I think the brand would've also been more or less completely rebooted. Maybe they'd of stayed making consoles, maybe not, but the PC push would've came regardless.

I also think the smaller acquisitions would've still happened, FWIW.

But Game Pass is the reason that Xbox has so many big exclusives in development. Xbox literally has more first party exclusives in development than Sony and Nintendo.

Quantity != Quality. Also how do you know how many 1P games Sony or Nintendo have in development, really? The Xbox leakers, possibly with MS's own help, have pretty much leaked out every game their studios have planned for the next five years. Sony & especially Nintendo, don't have leaks at that scale and definitely don't throw bones at leakers to keep their name in news cycles. I wouldn't be surprised if both companies have at least a handful of of exclusives they are working on that simply no outsider knows about yet, be they 1P internal studio projects or in tandem with 3P developers.

Plus also let's be honest games like Pentiment and Grounded aren't going to do much to move any needles; they can be fun games but they absolutely aren't the type to gather a lot of cache within the gaming zeitgeist.
 
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It's sales until 2023 would have been terrible due to the lack of first party games during it's first 2 years.

This would have led to less support from third parties and even more moneyhats from Sony due to it being cheaper, so maybe it would have end up doing a snowball, and by the time they'd get the big 1st party releases, they'd start missing some important 3rd party ones.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Speaking on that last part....what we're seeing from Sony's 1P these days is the result of almost 15 years worth of build-up among their internal studios and technology teams, among relationships with with 3P partners as well.
This is also why I don't really approve of the acquisitions. It costs a lot of money to integrate all these studios with their own workflows, cultures etc into Xbox. Getting them acquainted is going to take a lot of time and Xbox is kind of strapped for time seeing as how they currently have no exclusives...

That being said, I don't think Xbox have made many acquisitions to really be that harmful. With Bethesda, they were always more of a PC focused company. First entries of fallout and elder scrolls were windows exclusive (Xbox exclusive in the case of morrowind) and titles like skyrim and morrowind would get DLC earlier than PlayStation. I don't approve of the whole taking games away from Playstation thing, though, but all of the games Bethesda makes and dabbles in are clearly genres that would sell better on Xbox/Windows. Besides, Bethesda is a hotbed of talent so I think the purchase was a good call.

In the case of Activision, I hate Bobby kodick so anything that will get him far away from any industry (besides one that involves guillotines and firing squads) is fine by me. Plus, when cod was at its peak (MW2/BO1 years) it was more closely associated with Xbox than PlayStation.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
I don't even think it's going to be that competitive with GamePass. I bet the numbers will look about the same as last gen when it's all said and done. They benefited from the Series S being in stock for sure.
This is by far one of the most delusional takes ive ever seen here.

So you're saying, acquiring several studios, zenimax and possibly acti-blizz, making some of the best hardware and being priced lower then the competition is not going to make any difference?

Thats is so delusional and crazy. Complete 🤡 talk.

Plus you are already spouting incorrect information, series consoles are selling better then the 360 launch alligned and that sold 85million.
 

Miyazaki’s Slave

Gold Member
Personally I buy all the consoles just to have them and that probably pushes me out of the core gamepass market.

I've had an xbox live sub since it came out and I have 3 years of GPU stacked up...never use it.

In recent years Xbox has felt like a place to play sports games mostly (I use that term broadly as well...Racing, Sports, Extreme Sports, etc) and I could give two :poop: 's about those types of games personally.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I really dont understand this focus on gamepass and tying it to Xbox's success. Gamepass has been around since 2017. Console sales pretty much fell off a cliff for MS in the second half of last gen despite gamepass. MS actually had a relatively good start to last gen beating out the PS in several November and December months in NA. If gamepass was a gamechanger, it wouldve carried the Xbox One in the latter half of the gen.

Xbox is selling well right now because it always sells well to its most hardcore supporters. I might have this wrong, but I remember that xbox US sales were 28 million to 33 million PS4 sales. They have always been very competitive in the US and sell to their core audience every single gen. The problem they have is going after that casual gamer especially abroad. They tried with Kinect and instead got the Wii nursing home audience which is basically useless when it comes to investing in xbox eco systems. They are unable to target the kids audience which is why they bought Minecraft, but inexplicably kept it multiplatform. Nintendo wouldnt be where it is today if they had put Mario on Playstation.

And lastly, if gamepass was keeping them competitive they wouldnt have felt the need to go spend $75 billion on CoD. CoD, Starfield, Elder Scrolls is what they needed, not day one gamepass. I dont know anyone who went out and bought Xbox because Outriders was day one on gamepass. Halo and Forza sold xboxes, day one gamepass? Thats just icing on the cake. And thats why you are seeing Microsoft go all out on acquisitions because they have realized that exclusives are important. You cant rely on brand loyalty for 100 million sales. 50 million yes. But you need to give people an exclusive reason to buy your console over the competitor and Starfield and CoD are it.

Now, Im not sure if they will continue to see this success going forward. Starfield is a big exclusive but at the end of the day its a WRPG which is not going to convince the PS audience who loves Action adventure games and JRPGs to switch. They might just be preaching to the choir and selling that game to the WRPG/FPS heavy audience they already have. I suspect 5-10 million extra sales on top of the 50-55 million they got last gen. CoD will be huge but they keep saying its multiplatform so who knows when that might have an actual effect.

Their action adventure games like Hellblade, Perfect Dark, Everwild, Fable and Avowed are nowhere to be found. Avowed might be a WRPG. Maybe they all come out before the end of the gen, but it might be too late.

Regardless, I think it will always be about games, not services. No one goes to their favorite resturant because they have better waiters. They go their for the food. And MS needs to make sure they have more exclusives lined up next year than Starfield, Redfall and Forza.
 
This is by far one of the most delusional takes ive ever seen here.

So you're saying, acquiring several studios, zenimax and possibly acti-blizz, making some of the best hardware and being priced lower then the competition is not going to make any difference?

Thats is so delusional and crazy. Complete 🤡 talk.

Plus you are already spouting incorrect information, series consoles are selling better then the 360 launch alligned and that sold 85million.
Series is selling better cause Series S was in stock almost the whole time. Phil even said the S accounts for over half of the Series sales.
Most of those deals are for games years out that are going to remain multiplat. So you're expecting people to completely switch ecosystems, ditch their digital libraries, and sign up to a new $15/month subscription, instead of just paying the $60-70 for the game to stay where they are now? Now that's delusional. There will only be a significant change to xbox/gamepass if all these new publishers exclusively put the games in gamepass. Which doesn't sound like it's going to happen anytime soon. They're going to PC. They're going to Xbox sold separately. Some are staying mutliplat entirely.
 
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