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Axios: Microsoft misses Xbox Game Pass subscriber target for second year

SoraNoKuni

Member
They have to build a strong library of first party games so they can sell their service at the right price, they are on the right track but it needs more time.

Though unfortunately for MS you could argue that GP was great marketing for PS Premium, as Sony charges more and they don't have to sell 1$ subscriptions to attract people(I mean it's everywhere, even pringles are offering free 1 month subscriptions), it's going to be interesting to compare profit for both services in the same time period.

I am all in for MS success even though I don't like their offerings and their games, bleeding money isn't a big deal for them so that's ok.
 
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What's the context?

Netflix and game pass are not the same thing. In fact, I think game pass provides more value because of the cost of those day 1 games outside of game pass.
The context is that subscription services thrived during the COVID pandemic/lockdowns... not to mention the effect of QE/stimmy checks.

Does Netflix have a lack of content? I don't think so.

Just wait until 2025 for the climate/CO2 lockdowns.
 
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Not sure why you’re struggling to understand how the negotiations work. These are some of the same issues being raised with the ABK acquisition and the negotiation power it would potentially give Microsoft.

Sony can put all kinds of stuff into these deals because they know publishers would rather go with them and have a larger marketing push and reach a larger audience than they would with Xbox. This is extremely basic negotiating 101.

Or you can be like the other poster with their fingers in their ears, lalalalallala they don’t need to make these deals and the publishers don’t even want them in GamePass and yet the stipulations continue to be put into the deals. I guess Sony just likes throwing money out for no reason 😆

Also, Xbox gets some deals because a lot of games get released and Sony doesn’t snatch up all of them. Again, pretty basic logic.
 
ABK: 23 billion valuation with a 7.6 billion revenue in the last 12 months (OI: 2.3bn, NI: 1.9bn) ?? Atter a bad COD release
If EA now has 7,207 billion revenue in the last 12 month (OI: 1.25bn, NI: 0.9bn); what do you value them at?

Just for note, 6 months ago
ABK has 8.8bn revenue (TTM), 3.2bn OI and 2.7bn NI

I assume you believe ABK revenue and profits will decline when they next report it?

Yeah, I do.

EA is also overvalued, once another company teams with FIFA, their stock is going to collapse, but for now their performance has kept up their stock price.
 

reksveks

Member
Yeah, I do.

EA is also overvalued, once another company teams with FIFA, their stock is going to collapse, but for now their performance has kept up their stock price.
Think we are just going to have to agree to disagree but how much value are you placing on EA at the moment?
 
The context is that subscription services thrived during the COVID pandemic/lockdowns... not to mention the effect of QE/stimmy checks.

Does Netflix have a lack of content? I don't think so.

Just wait until 2025 for the climate/CO2 lockdowns.
Netflix has way more competition compared to game pass. Beside these services having a subscription model there offering are completely different.

Game pass could be doing a lot better if it just had more content because their isn't much competition for them. PS Plus does not offer new AAA games day 1 so that sets game pass apart.
 
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PeteBull

Member
Netflix has way more competition compared to game pass. Beside these services having a subscription model there offering are completely different.

Game pass could be doing a lot better if it just had more content because their isn't much competition for them. PS Plus does not offer new games day 1 so that sets game pass apart.
For sure, this year tho, say whole year 2022, how many new games, launched on it date and date, how many of them were big AAA games and how many were decent(say 80+ metacritic), i feel not that many but maybe i missed some, wonder if there is a site where does list all titles, so i could see, as non gamepass user, what i missed out durning not paying for it in 2022 and if it was actually good deal for me personally

Edit- i found this site/list, pretty big, it doesnt tell which are actual new games and which isnt tho https://www.purexbox.com/guides/xbox-game-pass-in-2022-the-full-list-of-everything-announced-so-far
 
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Netflix has way more competition compared to game pass. Beside these services having a subscription model there offering are completely different.

Game pass could be doing a lot better if it just had more content because their isn't much competition for them. PS Plus does not offer new games day 1 so that sets game pass apart.
Netflix also has a bigger pie to steal from. Why do you forget that?

Does your father, mother, uncle, grandpa play video games? (and I don't mean mobile ones)

Most likely not, but there's a higher chance they have Netflix. Correct?

Billions of people care about movies/series, but only a few hundreds millions care about playing AAA games. Huge difference.
 

MacReady13

Member
The expectation was that there would be a some major AAA releases this year. That would be enough to forecast growth. None of those titles came out. The announcement of the delay for Starfield was before their June showcase. That absolutely would affect growth.
I love hearing everyone go on about Starfield affecting game pass numbers, almost like Starfield is the next big thing! I heard the exact same with Halo, and that did sweet fuck all to inflate numbers. I will be VERY curious to see once Starfield comes out just how much of an increase game pass receives and, once it doesn't happen, I'll wait for everyone on here to claim the next BIG Xbox exclusive will be the one to inflate game pass numbers!

Seriously, outside of the hardcore, none of my mates who game fairly often but aren't as into games as we are on here, have no fucking idea what Starfield is!
 
Netflix also has a bigger pie to steal from. Why do you forget that?

Does your father, mother, uncle, grandpa play video games? (and I don't mean mobile ones)

Most likely not, but there's a higher chance they have Netflix. Correct?

Billions of people care about movies/series, but only a few hundreds millions care about playing AAA games. Huge difference.
Dude your the one who mentioned Netflix and I said what does Netflix have to do with game pass?

Game pass can and will grow once they have more content its really that simple. A lot of the games they do release have been indies or older games which doesn't build excitement for the service. Once they fix that issue they will grow.

The declines for Netflix is a whole other conversation ..
 
Dude your the one who mentioned Netflix and I said what does Netflix have to do with game pass?

Game pass can and will grow once they have more content its really that simple. A lot of the games they do release have been indies or older games which doesn't build excitement for the service. Once they fix that issue they will grow.

The declines for Netflix is a whole other conversation ..
Again: Netflix (despite having tons of content) stopped growing when the COVID lockdowns went away. Is that a coincidence?

People would rather live their life in the real world, when they have the choice to do so.

When you're locked in your own house, you don't have much of a choice. Movies/series/video games it is.

What's the part that you don't get?

Even Metaverse will thrive during the next (climate/CO2) lockdowns.

Bookmark this post for future reference (2025+) if you have any doubts.

ps: I won't even mention the obvious fact that Game Pass has had new games like Halo Infinite and Gears 5.
 
Again: Netflix (despite having tons of content) stopped growing when the COVID lockdowns went away. Is that a coincidence?

People would rather live their life in the real world, when they have the choice to do so.

When you're locked in your own house, you don't have much of a choice. Movies/series/video games it is.

What's the part that you don't get?

Even Metaverse will thrive during the next (climate/CO2) lockdowns.

Bookmark this post for future reference (2025+) if you have any doubts.

ps: I won't even mention the obvious fact that Game Pass has had new games like Halo Infinite and Gears 5.
The Rock Reaction GIF by WWE
 
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Keep ignoring the facts:

Before:


After:

 

GHG

Gold Member
Not sure why you’re struggling to understand how the negotiations work. These are some of the same issues being raised with the ABK acquisition and the negotiation power it would potentially give Microsoft.

And there will be no negotiations once the acquisition is closed. That is why its being looked into, because you know, it would give one party actual market power over properties that are seen as important to the overall industry.

Right now Microsoft are free to go the negotiation table at the same time as Sony when negotiating 3rd party deals, they are free to offer different terms, more money (of which they have plenty of), whatever they need to in order to secure deals. That's exactly how Microsoft get 3rd party marketing deals of their own, timed exclusives, gamepass day one deals, etc.

If one company owns the majority of the revenue producing property in an industry then it removes the opportunity for other parties to negotiate deals that would be seen as mutually beneficial. All current 3rd party marketing deals, exclusives, etc get agreed upon because they are seen as mutually beneficial, no other reason.

If Xbox can't figure out a way to provide favourable terms to 3rd parties without needing to resort to buying them outright then that's on them. They've been in the industry long enough and have more resources than Sony and Nintendo put together, so please spare me the sob story.

Sony can put all kinds of stuff into these deals because they know publishers would rather go with them and have a larger marketing push and reach a larger audience than they would with Xbox. This is extremely basic negotiating 101.

See above, Xbox are still free to negotiate for these deals and do what's necessary in order to secure them. They had no issue in the 360 era when Sony were in an even more dominant position coming off the PS2 generation. It's not Sony's or anyone else's fault that as a business division Xbox have lost their focus since then.

Or you can be like the other poster with their fingers in their ears, lalalalallala they don’t need to make these deals and the publishers don’t even want them in GamePass and yet the stipulations continue to be put into the deals. I guess Sony just likes throwing money out for no reason 😆

Well clearly in certain circumstances publishers/developers don't want gamepass enough. If they did then they would say no on the basis of the clause.

If you think stipulations in deals are not an industry wide standard then I have a bridge to sell to you. It's going to be really funny when contracts from other platform holders end up out in the open. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Also, Xbox gets some deals because a lot of games get released and Sony doesn’t snatch up all of them. Again, pretty basic logic.

But I thought big bad Sony were throwing their weight around exercising their "market power" and making things difficult for Xbox? Can't be that bad if Xbox are still managing to get 3rd party marketing deals, day one gamepass games and 3rd party exclusives of their own.
 
Think we are just going to have to agree to disagree but how much value are you placing on EA at the moment?

Value is all about the future. We're talking about a company that floundered on Battlefield, who put out a terribly rated Madden game, who lost the FIFA license, and who may end up seeing more Star Wars games produced by other companies.

They're probably only worth 17-20 billion. And currently rated at 36.
 

CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
If Xbox can't figure out a way to provide favourable terms to 3rd parties without needing to resort to buying them outright then that's on them. They've been in the industry long enough and have more resources than Sony and Nintendo put together, so please spare me the sob story.

See above, Xbox are still free to negotiate for these deals and do what's necessary in order to secure them. They had no issue in the 360 era when Sony were in an even more dominant position coming off the PS2 generation. It's not Sony's or anyone else's fault that as a business division Xbox have lost their focus since then.
Microsoft is in a position to outright buy them and in turn keep the excellent revenue A/B/K earns. Why should MS bother trying to negotiate 3rd party deals from a far less advantageous position than the competition when makes more sense for them to use their position of strength and just buy them.
 
And there will be no negotiations once the acquisition is closed. That is why its being looked into, because you know, it would give one party actual market power over properties that are seen as important to the overall industry.

Right now Microsoft are free to go the negotiation table at the same time as Sony when negotiating 3rd party deals, they are free to offer different terms, more money (of which they have plenty of), whatever they need to in order to secure deals. That's exactly how Microsoft get 3rd party marketing deals of their own, timed exclusives, gamepass day one deals, etc.

If one company owns the majority of the revenue producing property in an industry then it removes the opportunity for other parties to negotiate deals that would be seen as mutually beneficial. All current 3rd party marketing deals, exclusives, etc get agreed upon because they are seen as mutually beneficial, no other reason.

If Xbox can't figure out a way to provide favourable terms to 3rd parties without needing to resort to buying them outright then that's on them. They've been in the industry long enough and have more resources than Sony and Nintendo put together, so please spare me the sob story.



See above, Xbox are still free to negotiate for these deals and do what's necessary in order to secure them. They had no issue in the 360 era when Sony were in an even more dominant position coming off the PS2 generation. It's not Sony's or anyone else's fault that as a business division Xbox have lost their focus since then.



Well clearly in certain circumstances publishers/developers don't want gamepass enough. If they did then they would say no on the basis of the clause.

If you think stipulations in deals are not an industry wide standard then I have a bridge to sell to you. It's going to be really funny when contracts from other platform holders end up out in the open. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.



But I thought big bad Sony were throwing their weight around exercising their "market power" and making things difficult for Xbox? Can't be that bad if Xbox are still managing to get 3rd party marketing deals, day one gamepass games and 3rd party exclusives of their own.
😆😆 @ comparing the 360 era to now. Yeah, MS did better with these deals during the 360 era… when Sony had the PS3 and wasn’t ruling the industry with an iron fist. Thanks for making my point for me.

Again, not sure what you’re struggling with here. Sony uses their position of strength to negotiate better deals and exclusive perks and weird clauses like banning games from GamePass or guaranteeing first negotiating rights. It’s basic business. I don’t care, MS doesn’t care. Only Sony cares, if MS tries to do it to them.

No one said or implied Xbox can’t sign any deals or that Sony gets all of them. You have a tendency to argue stupid things no one said, because your actual argument doesn’t have much substance. Keep your fingers in your ears, good day.
 

reksveks

Member
Value is all about the future. We're talking about a company that floundered on Battlefield, who put out a terribly rated Madden game, who lost the FIFA license, and who may end up seeing more Star Wars games produced by other companies.

They're probably only worth 17-20 billion. And currently rated at 36.
To most people, value is partially about the future and the current performance.

They put out a terrible Battlefield, it made little to no difference to their revenue (at least as far as we can tell). They were one of the few companies that grew YoY in the previous quarter. The losing of the fifa license potentially could have an impact if anyone else is willing to pick up the licence. Also shitty games doesn't impact valuation unless it impact brand strength or revenue re Madden.

Again all valuations are subjective so I really don't want to debate the right value. I will just stick with the market valuation as that's what acquisitions are based on.
 
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I love hearing everyone go on about Starfield affecting game pass numbers, almost like Starfield is the next big thing! I heard the exact same with Halo, and that did sweet fuck all to inflate numbers. I will be VERY curious to see once Starfield comes out just how much of an increase game pass receives and, once it doesn't happen, I'll wait for everyone on here to claim the next BIG Xbox exclusive will be the one to inflate game pass numbers!

Seriously, outside of the hardcore, none of my mates who game fairly often but aren't as into games as we are on here, have no fucking idea what Starfield is!
Interesting to see Starfield downplayed when the CMA was trying to claim it was a reason to potentially block the acquisition of Activision by Microsoft. Microsoft should have you make these arguments to the CMA.

Oh and Halo Infinite has a f2p multiplayer mode. It has nothing to do with Game pass.
Litterally has fuck all to do with what we're talking about. Read the quote in my comment so you understand the context
As long as Game pass and PS+ are considered their respective game subscription services there is no need for further context.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Microsoft is in a position to outright buy them and in turn keep the excellent revenue A/B/K earns. Why should MS bother trying to negotiate 3rd party deals from a far less advantageous position than the competition when makes more sense for them to use their position of strength and just buy them.

Folks used to laugh at MS for not using their fabled war chest to be competitive a couple of years ago. Now that they've decided to use it, it's not that funny anymore.
 
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As long as Game pass and PS+ are considered their respective game subscription services there is no need for further context.

Do you even realize how stupid of a statement that is?

How exactly do you plan to differentiate different debates re gamepass and PS+ without context? If you have no interest in understanding the context behind an argument then don't partake in them.
 
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GHG

Gold Member
Microsoft is in a position to outright buy them and in turn keep the excellent revenue A/B/K earns. Why should MS bother trying to negotiate 3rd party deals from a far less advantageous position than the competition when makes more sense for them to use their position of strength and just buy them.

Well if they want to do that and take shortcuts then they've got to deal with the scrutiny and criticism that will inevitably come their way from the relevant parties while those deals are in process.

If You Say So Shrug GIF


😆😆 @ comparing the 360 era to now. Yeah, MS did better with these deals during the 360 era… when Sony had the PS3 and wasn’t ruling the industry with an iron fist. Thanks for making my point for me.

There you go again. "Iron fist" huh? Must be so hard for Xbox to compete right now, poor them.

Most of the 360's best 3rd party deals were front loaded in that generation - as in they would have been negotiated before the consoles even released. They had the likes of Capcom, Square Enix, 2K, Activision, Take two and Bethesda on board from day one. The difference is that back then the people in charge of the Xbox division were actually competent, knew what they were doing and understood what gamers wanted at the time. That's literally all it takes. But instead of realising this people are too busy hero worshiping a guy who has served them nothing but shit sandwiches for a decade. Shame.

Again, not sure what you’re struggling with here. Sony uses their position of strength to negotiate better deals and exclusive perks and weird clauses like banning games from GamePass or guaranteeing first negotiating rights. It’s basic business. I don’t care, MS doesn’t care. Only Sony cares, if MS tries to do it to them.

"weird clauses" huh? Like I said, read the contracts for yourself, they are widely available. When you're done ask yourself whether or not it would be wise for other platform holders negotiating such deals to put similar clauses in their contracts. Because when those get out there it's not going to make for fun reading for you.

Microsoft can only play the innocent party in this scenario for as long as it's only Sony's contracts that are out there in the open. Once that changes embrace the radio silence.

No one said or implied Xbox can’t sign any deals or that Sony gets all of them. You have a tendency to argue stupid things no one said, because your actual argument doesn’t have much substance. Keep your fingers in your ears, good day.

You're the one suggesting it's difficult for 1.75 trillion dollar Microsoft to do business in an industry ruled with an "iron fist" by Sony who are "strong arming" 3rd party publishers into doing deals with them with "weird clauses" in tow. Or are you going to tell me you never said those things now?

Like I said, if it were as difficult as you were suggesting then Microsoft would be left with no deals, especially not for big games like Battlefield and Assassins Creed. Sounds like they've had it rough in the last decade with Sony pushing them around like this.
 
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Crayon

Member
It's almost like the goals are based on their own viral bs. Don't they have a memo around somewhere to take that with a grain of salt? Seem's like the 30% or whatever would have been realistic and good?
 

Menzies

Banned
If Xbox can't figure out a way to provide favourable terms to 3rd parties without needing to resort to buying them outright then that's on them. They've been in the industry long enough and have more resources than Sony and Nintendo put together, so please spare me the sob story.

You're the one suggesting it's difficult for 1.75 trillion dollar Microsoft to do business in an industry ruled with an "iron fist" by Sony who are "strong arming" 3rd party publishers into doing deals with them with "weird clauses" in tow. Or are you going to tell me you never said those things now?

Why should the depths of resources or lack thereof, from a competitor be brought up though?

If Microsoft wasn't a 1.75-trillion-dollar business, and for argument's sake a much smaller business than Sony - then how is the current landscape with market dominance and favourable terms not a foreclosure concern?

Regulators and commentors seem fine with just saying - well, you're Microsoft we don't care if you have to spend 10 times the amount for a theoretical Final Fantasy exclusive because you're 1.75 trillion Microsoft, but don't dream of buying the company that wouldn't be fair.
 
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feynoob

Banned
Seem's like the 30% or whatever would have been realistic and good?
2022 seemed to be stacked. But covid derailed that, and made alot of games delayed. Not to mention, the supply constrain.

Still, that target was unrealistic. The nature conversion of the console users doesn't allow that. As ps+ numbers is clear evidence of that. Ps+ has 40% of PS usersbase. Imagine what gamepass conversion would be?
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
2022 seemed to be stacked. But covid derailed that, and made alot of games delayed. Not to mention, the supply constrain.

Still, that target was unrealistic. The nature conversion of the console users doesn't allow that. As ps+ numbers is clear evidence of that. Ps+ has 40% of PS usersbase. Imagine what gamepass conversion would be?

Yeah, the growth target was just crazy high. They probably really thought PC was going to take off even more so than it did (although they had like 150% growth there or something like that).

The way the media has taken to picking up this missed target and making that the focus vs. the near 30% growth is ridiculous.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
With a pending $68.7 billion acquisition where Game Pass is of issue, this isn't the kind of news Microsoft will mind. Game Pass isn't so scary and dominant that it's just growing out of control and overwhelming the entire rest of the market.

And while I'm sure this will mean nothing to some, people shouldn't confuse very aggressive performance targets tied to exorbitant bonuses for top executives as a sign something isn't proving successful. Game Pass is almost certainly finding its mark, but these targets were set at a time when they were expecting a much different 2023 in terms of major first-party game launches.
qPdKYVf.jpg
 

Godot25

Banned
I don't understand who at Microsoft thought that it will be a good idea to have 70% target for Game Pass growth when you have service with 20+ million subscribers.
Especially since they don't have steady flow of first-party content yet.

Like. If you have a service at 5 million subscribers, it is okay to expect 70% or even 100% growth. But not now.

But I guess context matters. And this is only for compensation package for Nadella and executive team. So this will probably force them to invest more into game pass content.
 

PeteBull

Member
I don't understand who at Microsoft thought that it will be a good idea to have 70% target for Game Pass growth when you have service with 20+ million subscribers.
Especially since they don't have steady flow of first-party content yet.

Like. If you have a service at 5 million subscribers, it is okay to expect 70% or even 100% growth. But not now.

But I guess context matters. And this is only for compensation package for Nadella and executive team. So this will probably force them to invest more into game pass content.
I remember famous statements of xbox higher ups(not sure who exactly it was) about goal for xbox one to reach 2b gamers, ofc was all pr talk but it was said somewhere around 2013 xbox one launch, just not sure if at reveal event or at e3, im sure its somewhere on the net still hahaha, would have to rewatch those conferenses again;'D

Edit found something even crazier, and legit info too, fairy recent tho, just shows u those ppl are either crazy or full on pr talkers https://www.techtimes.com/articles/...-players-without-consoles-publishing-head.htm
 
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We shall see if Game Pass adds another 5-7 million come January next year and the Activision deal is approved a few months after.

28% more of the current subscriber count isn't insignificant. Take it as damage control if you want. We will be having a very different discussion the January after Starfield launches. What drives Game Pass is not just the catalog. That's what gets people to stay, but it's new, big releases that draw in the largest number of new subscribers. The new subs basically server as substitutes for some of the regular 'buy to play' sales that will come to the game.
 

PeteBull

Member
I remember famous statements of xbox higher ups(not sure who exactly it was) about goal for xbox one to reach 2b gamers, ofc was all pr talk but it was said somewhere around 2013 xbox one launch, just not sure if at reveal event or at e3, im sure its somewhere on the net still hahaha, would have to rewatch those conferenses again;'D

Edit found something even crazier, and legit info too, fairy recent tho, just shows u those ppl are either crazy or full on pr talkers https://www.techtimes.com/articles/...-players-without-consoles-publishing-head.htm
Just for comparision, whole western world, so North America, Europe + those few smaller countries like Japan, Australia,South Korea etc(population wise) arent even 1,5bilion total population :)
 
People mention starfield but how will Microsoft retain those subscribers? How many will only temporary subscribe just to play it. This is why Microsoft want call of duty. They need big popular multiplayer games that people continuously play or they will hit a ceiling with subscribers.
 

PeteBull

Member
People mention starfield but how will Microsoft retain those subscribers? How many will only temporary subscribe just to play it. This is why Microsoft want call of duty. They need big popular multiplayer games that people continuously play or they will hit a ceiling with subscribers.
Yups, and thats why they put so much emphasis on multiplayer/GaaS games, with singleplayer games they would need to produce quality content every month and even then many would unsubscribe coz they wouldnt enjoy particular months big 80+ metascore AAA game coz its not their fav genre.

Tldr for us singleplayer experience lowers- all that gamepass/ps+ is useless shit, its only good for publishers, and for ppl who like multiplayer games enough to not unsubscribe often.
 
giphy.gif


A game one reviewer labelled as "Crap" and a multiplat? I'm not going to lie this exchange had me rolling.

Not sure why it had you rolling, unless not applying context to a quote and failing at reading comprehension are super funny to you.

He was replying to a poster talking about Sony getting day one PS+ games and listed Stray, which is as much a Sony game as Plague Tale is a Microsoft game. He was just listing two recent day one games GamePass got.
 

Duchess

Member
They'll miss it next year, too, since we're on the brink of a global recession. Stuff like subscriptions are some of the first things to go, as well as nights out, takeaways, and other little luxuries*.

(* - oh, and household pets - fuck people who dump their animals!)
 
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