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I'm not so sure the PSVR 2 will succeed, and may fall short like the first one. (PSVR2+PS5 may potentially cost $1,040 with two games)

drezz

Member
Insomniac
They really have their hands full, 2 announced games going and potential Stormland PSVR2 port in the works(Last I read they only needed an approval from Meta and they'd do it, dont take my word for it).
Thats pretty heavy, even for a talentet studio like Insomniac.
If I could dream of a VR game from them, I'd be as bold too want a R&C VR game.

"Mr Zurgon Shooting Range/Arcade" or something, where we get too try out all the fun tools of destructions from the series First hand! Like a small techy game, for launch.
Not that VR need more techy demo games...but some fluff here and there from the big AAA studios wouldnt hurt too build up the library some... imo
 
I doubt so. I was told there's a quality difference, but those games on PSVR2 ain't have wireless in return for better visual, which makes them rather on par.

I really don't understand what your saying. I know the quest 2s hardware is vastly inferior to the PS5s. Which is why it will never be able to match the IQ that the PS5 is capable of. Plus the overall specs of PSVR2 is superior.

I don't see how both are on par unless you hook the Quest 2 with a powerful PC. Even then the hardware of the device is still inferior to PSVR2s.

psvr2-infographic-1641587564079.png


I'm just going off official specs BTW.

119908099_10160352607729676_4289620990629755170_n.png

PlayStation-5-specs.jpg
 
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Resenge

Member
A grand total of 4 games is a minority against the numerous ports from Quest 2 tbh.
Just like every other console launch ever made, this is such a thinly veiled troll argument.

PS5 launch exclusives:
  • Astro's Playroom - (pre-installed in all PS5 devices)
  • Demon's Souls.
  • Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales - (also available for PS4)
  • Sackboy: A Big Adventure - (also available for PS4)

Xbox Series X launch exclusives:

Xbox one launch exclusives:
  • Dead Rising 3 (Capcom)
  • Forza Motorsport 5 (Turn 10)
  • LocoCycle (Twisted Pixel)
  • Killer Instinct (Double Helix)
  • Ryse: Son of Rome (Crytek)
PS4 launch exclusives:
  • DC Universe Online (Sony Online Entertainment)
  • DriveClub (Evolution Studios)
  • Killzone: Shadow Fall (Guerrilla Games)
  • Knack (SCE Japan Studio)
  • Warframe (Digital Extremes)
 
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midnightAI

Member
A grand total of 4 games is a minority against the numerous ports from Quest 2 tbh.
And?

(also I'm pretty f'kin sure that PSVR 2 will get more than 4 games that aren't Quest 2 ports throughout its lifespan)

Didnt want to do lists, but anyway:

Affected: The Asylum
After Life
After The Fall
Aliens VR
Alvo
Among Us
Blacktop Hoops
Black Trail
Cave Digger 2: Dig Harder
Cities
Crossfire: Sierra Squad
Cosmonious High
Demeo
Distortion
Do Not Open
Engram
The Exorcist: Legion VR - Sin
Firewall Ultra
Firmament
Galaxy Cart
Ghostbusters
Ghosts of Tabor
Golf Plus
Green Hell
Grimlord
Hello Neighbor: Search and Rescue
Hellsplit Arena
Horizon: Call of the Mountain
Hubris
Hyperstacks
Jurassic World Aftermath Collection
Kayak VR: Mirage
The Light Brigade
Low Fi
Madison
Medieval Synasty
Mixture
No Mans Sky
Pavlov VR
Pistol Whip
Project Lousiana: The Bounds
Propogation: Paradise Hotel
Resident Evil 4
Resident Evil Village
Requisition
Runner
R-Type Final 3
Samurai Slaughterhouse
Shadowgate: The Mines of Mythrok
Soul of Kaeru
Star Wars: Tales from the Galaxy's Edge
Super Kit: To the Top
Switchback
Tentacular
The Twilight Zone
Ultrawings 2
Vanishing Act
Volcanic Core
Walking Dead: Saints and Sinners
Wandering In Space
Zenith: The Last City

and these are just the ones we know about, there will be many unannounced games
 

midnightAI

Member
They really have their hands full, 2 announced games going and potential Stormland PSVR2 port in the works(Last I read they only needed an approval from Meta and they'd do it, dont take my word for it).
Thats pretty heavy, even for a talentet studio like Insomniac.
If I could dream of a VR game from them, I'd be as bold too want a R&C VR game.

"Mr Zurgon Shooting Range/Arcade" or something, where we get too try out all the fun tools of destructions from the series First hand! Like a small techy game, for launch.
Not that VR need more techy demo games...but some fluff here and there from the big AAA studios wouldnt hurt too build up the library some... imo
Totally agree, a Ratchet VR game would be amazing, either first person or Astrobot style, dont care either way
 
Launch lineup was better than I thought. Wasn't aware we're getting firewall and call of the mountains.

Still annoyed about The Dark Pictures rail shooter.
A grand total of 4 games is a minority against the numerous ports from Quest 2 tbh.

ArtHands and retarded takes go together like cream and coffee
 

midnightAI

Member
Launch lineup was better than I thought. Wasn't aware we're getting firewall and call of the mountains.

Still annoyed about The Dark Pictures rail shooter.


ArtHands and retarded takes go together like cream and coffee
Why are you annoyed about Switchback? looks awesome, proper successor to Rush of Blood :messenger_beaming:
 

drezz

Member
I can't stand the rail shooters lol. I'll admit some bits looked cool like the blinking section though
I can agree a rail shooter seems "6 year old TECH game" style, but they know what they are doing with it.
Mostly pendeling for their fans that did enjoyed their last rail shooter on PSVR1 and if nothing else, their soundtrack for the trailer was spot on!
 

yurinka

Member
Im with the OP. Numbers speak for themselves, if 95% of your base doesn't give a shit then time to move on.
If that would be the case then the console makers and publishers wouldn't make games, because with a few exceptions (like some Sony or Nintendo and a few top 3rd party series) all games are bought by less than 5% of the userbase.

It’s pretty clear there are two things holding back PSVR2. The price and the library. Once costs come down (or Sony is willing to take a loss) the only thing missing will be a killer app. Sony needs a big exclusive that gets people excited and brings in impulse buyers who would not have otherwise considered VR.


I think we’re getting closer. It I don’t see what it would be. For me, I’d be thrilled with what may be coming in the not so distant future. RE8, a new Astro Bot game, Half-Life: Alyx. But I don’t see a Halo type game changer exclusive that will drive adoption of the platform for people who haven’t been enticed by VR yet. A $300 price point and that one game would make all the difference.
Sony already must be taking a loss for every PSVR2 sold. I agree the main constrains are price and catalog. But price will always be an issue when chasing high end VR until prices go down over time, but in recent months/years they have been going up instead (components, shipping, dollar going up...). It is not realistic at all to ask something like PSVR2 for $300 specially under the current conditions of component shortages, oil price (so shipping) skyrocketing, dollar going up etc.

I think regarding catalog I agree that they need more Horizon CoM, RE, Astrobot and Alyx like games. Very likely Valve will want to keep Alyx Steam exclusive, but I think Sony will have more RE cases: important AAA games adapted to VR as could be the case of GT7 to name one. Plus I think it would help them to port all the key PSVR1 games to PSVR2.
 
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DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Like I said, I really do believe that Sony is holding out their other first party games/major third party games for some form of showcase/state of play.
Insomniac are VR experts (Stormland is amazing) so I wouldnt be surprised if they are working on something, Firesprite too have a horror game in the works (other than Horizon), London Studio and Asobi both made games for PSVR 1 and both studios have been used previously to show off hardware (Asobi made astrobot for VR, camera, PS5 included game, London Studio made VR worlds/PSVR demo disc). There are also rumours of a new Wipeout game for PSVR 2 that isnt a port of Wipeout VR for PSVR 1 but I'd just be happy with a port to be honest.

Just so everyone is aware. I'm a massive VR fan and I will be buying this no matter what at some point. I just was hoping to see more of a push from Sony but like you said we may see something closer to launch. I'm just stumped as to why they wouldn't want to blow us away with the announcement.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
If that would be the case then the console makers wouldn't make games for their consoles, with a few exceptions from Sony and Nintendo.
Yep, that's a very valid point!

Elden Ring, which is a huge critical and commercial success sold, what, 15 million copies on 3 platforms with a combined userbase of 320 million [~140M (PS) + ~60M (Xbox) + ~120M (PC)]. That's around 4.5%. Does that mean FromSoftware should shut down and stop producing games?

Also, it's up to these companies to innovate and not just feed us the same thing. Otherwise, the gaming industry remains stagnant and wouldn't evolve.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
One major thing you appear to be forgetting about with PSVR2 is the eye tracking. Foveated rendering is used to allow the PS5 to hit above its weight and the round trip latency needs to be below 70ms (ideally much faster than that). Also allows devs to use the eye tracking in creative ways (such as the blink mechanic in Switchback).
The latency for streaming is way below that, on the order of 20ms.
Just so everyone is aware. I'm a massive VR fan and I will be buying this no matter what at some point. I just was hoping to see more of a push from Sony but like you said we may see something closer to launch. I'm just stumped as to why they wouldn't want to blow us away with the announcement.
I think they knew the price was gonna hurt so they didn't want that to overshadow the bigger games. Plus they can probably sell out there initial batch to people who were 100% on board no matter the cost and sight unseen.
 
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clarky

Gold Member
If that would be the case then the console makers and publishers wouldn't make games, because with a few exceptions (like some Sony or Nintendo and a few top 3rd party series) all games are bought by less than 5% of the userbase.
So 5% of 5% ie fuck all.

Its a niche product that's likely way too expensive for most other than the enthusiasts. Personally im completely ambivalent to it and im probably the target market ( ps5 owner, enthusiast, disposable income).

VR is fun for and hour or two and to get out at parties but fully fledged decent games that dont fall into the novelty category are few and far between. In my experience anyways. If you play and enjoy vr regularly then thats great but the two units i have hardly get used.
 
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midnightAI

Member
The latency for streaming is way below that, on the order of 20ms.

I think they knew the price was gonna hurt so they didn't want that to overshadow the bigger games. Plus they can probably sell out there initial batch to people who were 100% on board no matter the cost and sight unseen.
Round trip latency is nowhere near 20ms though all you are counting there is video stream latency, for foveated rendering you have camera/eye tracking, sending that data to the PC/PS5, rendering the image based on that data (and everything else done by the CPU/GPU) then finally sending that back to the headset.
Also. a wired connection is a known quantity, you can assume the data throughput is a constant (relatively speaking), whereas wifi is also affected by a number of factors.
 
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drezz

Member
So 5% of 5% ie fuck all.
The VR landscape is far different then what it was 6-8 years ago, more games and experiences, propper hardware and hype from other VR headsets being in the wild!
And now with propper controller setup and the potential too play normal games as VR games; as hybrid releases of said games... the lines of games being used for VR will be more and more blured
There is no question in my mind PSVR2 will outsell PSVR1 by a large marging and will help VR grow substantially as a medium.
 

Hero_Select

Member
If they wanted it to do better as peeps have said- it should have been compatible with PCs. There's no reason for it not to and all it does is hold it back.
I'm not going to spend that much money on a headset that's tied to 1 console and a lot of people who are interested in VR already have a library on PC.
 
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yurinka

Member
So 5% of 5% ie fuck all.

Its a niche product that's likely way too expensive for most other than the enthusiasts. Personally im completely ambivalent to it and im probably the target market ( ps5 owner, enthusiast, disposable income).

VR is fun for and hour or two and to get out at parties but fully fledged decent games that dont fall into the novelty category are few and far between. In my experience anyways. If you play and enjoy vr regularly then thats great but the two units i have hardly get used.
Yes, it's a niche product and Sony knows it. But PSVR1 was successful enough for Sony to want to make PSVR2 and apparently expects PSVR2 to be more successful (PSVR1 is estimated to have sold around 6M in all its lifetime and PSVR2 is rumored to have 2M units ready to ship at launch) but still far from being mainstream.

It's like game subscriptions or cloud gaming: a new market that now it's on its infancy and is small but has a lot of potential to grow, so they invest on it to help it grow and position themselves as innovators and market leaders in the AAA gaming area of these markets early. With the idea that once some years in the future once the market matures and grows to become mainstream, they will be positioned as market leaders and the owners of the key related patents.

Regarding the gameplay session length, on average non-VR players traditionally play on average game sessions of around a couple of hours. With different iterations every generation will make the headsets more confortable and lighter and will keep solving stuff like dizziness etc. to the point everybody will be able to play very long sessions with no issues. It's a very different new tech and these things are very complex to solve, so they'll take years.


Yep, that's a very valid point!

Elden Ring, which is a huge critical and commercial success sold, what, 15 million copies on 3 platforms with a combined userbase of 320 million [~140M (PS) + ~60M (Xbox) + ~120M (PC)]. That's around 4.5%. Does that mean FromSoftware should shut down and stop producing games?

Also, it's up to these companies to innovate and not just feed us the same thing. Otherwise, the gaming industry remains stagnant and wouldn't evolve.
We also have to consider that Elden Ring has been an extremely rare super success compared to all the games in the industry, 99% of the games sell way less than that.
 
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iHaunter

Member
I signed up for the pre-order. Guaranteed they will sell out in seconds. What people fail to release, and I'm not sure why, video games are a luxury item. No one needs a PS5 or XSX let alone a PSVR2. A lot of people who're buying them have somewhat of a disposable income or are financially irresponsible. For most people it's not a big deal to buy both.
 

vivftp

Member
Just so everyone is aware. I'm a massive VR fan and I will be buying this no matter what at some point. I just was hoping to see more of a push from Sony but like you said we may see something closer to launch. I'm just stumped as to why they wouldn't want to blow us away with the announcement.

Sony hasn't done a proper showcase as of yet to market their next wave of games for the PS5 post-Ragnarok. It's anyones guess when said showcase would happen, it could be later in this year, or it could be early next year. Either way, they're holding back on all their first party announcements across the board right now. One would think that once they open the floodgates that additional VR content will be revealed in addition to everything else. It could also be that trailers aren't yet ready for certain games because the devs are hard at work trying to complete the games/VR modes for games. We know that polishing a vertical slice of a game to make a trailer can take a lot of time and redirect needed resources away from the actual work on the game, so for all we know that could be why fewer overall things have been shown.

PSVR2 was almost certainly supposed to come out this holiday season, but instead is coming out Feb 2023 likely because of software delays and possibly component delays. Couple that with Sony themselves holding back their first party content and that could explain why they're not drowning us in announcements. There's still 3.5 months for them to announce additional content for PSVR2. That could be shown at TGA, or a SOP, or a Showcase, or blog post.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Yes, it's a niche product and Sony knows it. But PSVR1 was successful enough for Sony to want to make PSVR2.

It's like game subscriptions or cloud gaming: a new market that now it's on its infancy and is small but has a lot of potential to grow, so they invest on it to help it grow and position themselves as innovators and market leaders in the AAA gaming area of these markets early. With the idea that once some years in the future once the market matures and grows to become mainstream, they will be positioned as market leaders and the owners of the key related patents.

Regarding the gameplay session length, on average non-VR players traditionally play on average game sessions of around a couple of hours. With different iterations every generation will make the headsets more confortable and lighter and will keep solving stuff like dizziness etc. to the point everybody will be able to play very long sessions with no issues.
The dizziness thing will solve itself. My kids went straight to crazy rollercoasters without a hint of a problem while I would have to rip the headset off half way through.
I still can't handle the rollercoasters but FPS etc I am completely fine.
 

drezz

Member
If they wanted it to do better as peeps have said- it should have been compatible with PCs. There's no reason for it not to and all it does is hold it back.
I'm not going to spend that much money on a headset that's tied to 1 console and a lot of people who are interested in VR already have a library on PC.
IMO
We will have it spoofed as a Quest 2 within 24-48 hours of launch(Not all features working ie: eyetracking, haptics).
Going too need a couple of blutooth dongles doh, for the controllers.
 

vivftp

Member
If they wanted it to do better as peeps have said- it should have been compatible with PCs. There's no reason for it not to and all it does is hold it back.
I'm not going to spend that much money on a headset that's tied to 1 console and a lot of people who are interested in VR already have a library on PC.

There's plenty of reasons for them to not have it on PC, at least at launch. We don't know if Sony are taking a loss on each unit, if they are then they would aim to make that money back from game and accessory sales. Sony doesn't currently make any money from PC VR content, meaning they could wind up taking a loss on each unit with no way to earn any profit. Even if they're breaking even, every single unit that would go to a PC-only gamer is one less unit available to a PS5 gamer where they stand to make more money.

Now obviously Sony's got a renewed focus on PC so we very well may see them add PC support to PSVR2 in the future and port more games over. It would make even more sense if they eventually aim to create some form of PlayStation Store/launcher on PC at some point. At launch though, it doesn't make any real sense to support PC.
 

clarky

Gold Member
Yes, it's a niche product and Sony knows it. But PSVR1 was successful enough for Sony to want to make PSVR2 and apparently expects PSVR2 to be more successful (PSVR1 is estimated to have sold around 6M in all its lifetime and PSVR2 is rumored to have 2M units ready to ship at launch) but still far from being mainstream.

It's like game subscriptions or cloud gaming: a new market that now it's on its infancy and is small but has a lot of potential to grow, so they invest on it to help it grow and position themselves as innovators and market leaders in the AAA gaming area of these markets early. With the idea that once some years in the future once the market matures and grows to become mainstream, they will be positioned as market leaders and the owners of the key related patents.

Regarding the gameplay session length, on average non-VR players traditionally play on average game sessions of around a couple of hours. With different iterations every generation will make the headsets more confortable and lighter and will keep solving stuff like dizziness etc. to the point everybody will be able to play very long sessions with no issues. It's a very different new tech and these things are very complex to solve, so they'll take years.



We also have to consider that Elden Ring has been an extremely rare super success compared to all the games in the industry, 99% of the games sell way less than that.
Fair points. But with an install base about a 3rd of the size of last gen its going to be slow going. Even then say if they double the attach rate from PSVR1 they are what looking at 10 million units at best? thats not a lot of consumers to buy your software.

I think we are at the very least 2-3 generations of hardware away from VR being anything like mainstream (if at all). Fair play to sony for going for it, i just can't see it being successful enough as they like. They need at least a half a couple of must haves like Alyx to make me even consider picking one up.
 

John Wick

Member
For a start it's quite expensive so that will already be barrier for quite a few people.
Except for 2-3 games the rest shown are shovel ware. I wouldn't dream of dropping that kind of money for those sub par games. Sony need AAA games to sell it. Which studios and publishers are gonna waste that kind of money? Only Sony will invest that kind of money to a degree. Which in turn will thin out PlayStation game development to develop games for PSVR2. With recession now looming Sony were probably better off putting PSVR2 on the back burner.
 

vivftp

Member
Fair points. But with an install base about a 3rd of the size of last gen its going to be slow going. Even then say if they double the attach rate from PSVR1 they are what looking at 10 million units at best? thats not a lot of consumers to buy your software.

I think we are at the very least 2-3 generations of hardware away from VR being anything like mainstream (if at all). Fair play to sony for going for it, i just can't see it being successful enough as they like. They need at least a half a couple of must haves like Alyx to make me even consider picking one up.

Well none of us have any idea what their goals for PSVR2 are, so I'm not sure how you can make that judgement.

When the PSVR shipped the PS4 was sitting around 47.4 million units shipped. By the time the PSVR2 ships the PS5 will be somewhere around 37 million units. So attempting a like-for-like comparison the PSVR2 is starting off with a smaller potential userbase to sell to, but that'll quickly change as the PS5 overtakes the PS4 next FY.

If Sony's aiming to have 2 million units ready to go by the first month of the PSVR's launch and this is a device meant to go several years, then 10 million is a pretty conservative prediction IMO. I'm personally guessing 15-20 million lifetime. Of course software drives sales and we only have a brief glimpse into the software side of things so far, heck we don't even have a confirmed launch lineup yet.

I'm kinda hoping that we see a PSVR2 mode for Death Stranding released, and then support for PSVR2 on Death Stranding 2. We know Kojima's got a PSVR2 devkit, so we can only guess what he might do. It will certainly be interesting to see how many games opt for a hybrid approach where they can be played on TV and VR. RE8 is a good start, building off of what was done with RE7. It'll also offer an additional unique selling point in multi-plat games that might convince more people to go with the PlayStation version if those games also get VR content included.
 

yurinka

Member
Fair points. But with an install base about a 3rd of the size of last gen its going to be slow going. Even then say if they double the attach rate from PSVR1 they are what looking at 10 million units at best? thats not a lot of consumers to buy your software.

I think we are at the very least 2-3 generations of hardware away from VR being anything like mainstream (if at all). Fair play to sony for going for it, i just can't see it being successful enough as they like. They need at least a half a couple of must haves like Alyx to make me even consider picking one up.
Looking at their console getting sold out in minutes or hours we know the demand is way higher than what they sold. Meaning that once they get rid of chip shortages, apparently starting this quarter, they'll highly increase their userbase pretty fast and in less than a year will be ahead of PS4 (and any other console) launch aligned.

Not sure in which point PSVR1 was released, but if it was in the same point pretty likely PSVR2 in less than a year will have a bigger PS5 userbase than PSVR1 had. In the long term, if Sony expects PS5 will end with a bigger userbase than PS4, then with the same VR attach rate the PSVR2 units sold would be higher than the PSVR1.

We also have to consider that the pricing for the full VR kit needed to play PSVR1 on PS4 was more expensive (specially when applying inflation) that will be for PSVR2 in PS5. And that PSVR2 will fix or at least improve many of the issues that PSVR1 had. Meaning that some users that didn't jump to PSVR1 due to these issues may jump to PSVR2. So pretty likely the attach rate will be higher.

Leakers who accurately leaked a ton of the PSVR info we already know, also mentioned that dozens of PSVR1 games are being ported to PSVR2, and that Sony's plans for PSVR2 compared to PSVR1 included way more AAA-ish games and more popular AAA games getting the REVII like dual tv+vr versions. Meaning that maybe the launch catalog may be weak but in the long term may end being way more appealing for gamers than the PSVR1 one was.

So I think it makes sense to expect PSVR2 selling more and having a higher attach rate than PSVR1, even if not a lot more. If PSVR1 sold around 6M, I'd expect PSVR2 to sell maximum 10-15M, maybe even 20M if everything goes particularly well.

Once these dual releases become more common, I see the devs getting their engines more ready for VR and their designs more suited for VR, so would be easier to get an Alyx case for them. The thing is, AAA are too expensive and VR install base too small to make a VR only AAA game unless for a very limited amount of cases, the first party behind it. I think the next Alyx-like game will be from a game with a dual tv+vr release. In fact I bet it will come from either Capcom (RE Engine has an option to see any of their games for that engine in VR, but game design, controls, camera and UI must be adapted) or Sony and for PSVR2.

I agree that we're a 2-3 generations away from VR becoming mainstream. First because in terms of game design they still are far from having stantard best practices to adapt the main AAA genres. Second because the AAA devs and engines outside Capcom still don't have VR integration of their AAA games built in their engines to make a quick adaptation when needed. Third because most of them didn't figure out that the dual release is the way or still consider that the VR userbase is too small to make profitable VR adaptations of AAA games unless funded by Sony. Fourth because VR is still too bulky, cable needed to get the top high end experience during hours, and has other general hardware and horsepower related issues (like dizziness, nausea...) and they'll need several generations to be fixed, sixth because the pricing is still too expensive even if companies sell it taking a big loss and not now because current economic conditions but I think in long term that should improve and seventh because I think Sony must understad the importance of day one BC for VR to have a decent catalog and also making it PC compatible to grow userbase, and both things I think will start with PSVR3.

If I had to bet, I think PSVR4 for the PS7 will be the one that will go mainstream. Wireless, with long battery time, under $200 pricing, no controllers required (proper hand and finger tracking via cameras), probably standalone, capable or running VR games from PC and PS4 to PS7, and also getting supported by a big number of contemporary AAA games.

I think that generation will be the first with MS not making their own consoles (but continuing as 3rd party) and also the same generation where cloud gaming will become mainstream in the maybe top 10-top 20 countries. I think game subs will have growth to become the 25% of the game revenues, there won't be physical game sales and that digital add-ons (IAP/DLC/season passes) will be 60% of the game revenue and game sales will be only 15% of the game revenue.
 
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vivftp

Member
For a start it's quite expensive so that will already be barrier for quite a few people.
Except for 2-3 games the rest shown are shovel ware. I wouldn't dream of dropping that kind of money for those sub par games. Sony need AAA games to sell it. Which studios and publishers are gonna waste that kind of money? Only Sony will invest that kind of money to a degree. Which in turn will thin out PlayStation game development to develop games for PSVR2. With recession now looming Sony were probably better off putting PSVR2 on the back burner.

This is where hybrid games will become a huge factor in this whole thing. Some publishers might be hesitant to invest in dedicated AAA VR content, but will be much more likely to invest in adapting previously released or in-development games to include VR modes. RE8 is an obvious example of this. We should expect Gran Turismo 7 to also take this approach, given the indications we have. Other racing games and flight games like Ace Combat are also obvious choices to get VR modes. The decision becomes even easier if Sony pays for those adaptations which they likely did for RE7 and RE8.

As for putting PSVR2 on the back burner, lol nah. That wouldn't make much sense. Sony's got more studios than ever, many of them are also multi-project so they're able to crank out more content than ever before. Add to that some of their normal flat screen games can be adapted to VR. Add to that they can publish content from third party devs (ie. Firewall Ultra from First Contact Entertainment). Add to that they can pay third parties to create VR modes of existing games (ie. Capcom). Add to that devs and publishers who wanna get in on the whole VR thing on their own initiative. Add to that ports from PC VR.

There should be ample content for PSVR2 and the earlier in the consoles lifespan it comes out the better to give more time for games to be developed, and to give more time for folks to enjoy their investment. Not to mention the specs would've been locked in long ago so delaying the launch would cause the hardware to become dated by the time it eventually did get released. Also, there would be devs (first and third party) who've been working on content for PSVR2 for years, we can't expect Sony would just walk up to them and say, "sorry, we changed our minds so go fuck off now"
 

clarky

Gold Member
Well none of us have any idea what their goals for PSVR2 are, so I'm not sure how you can make that judgement.

When the PSVR shipped the PS4 was sitting around 47.4 million units shipped. By the time the PSVR2 ships the PS5 will be somewhere around 37 million units. So attempting a like-for-like comparison the PSVR2 is starting off with a smaller potential userbase to sell to, but that'll quickly change as the PS5 overtakes the PS4 next FY.

If Sony's aiming to have 2 million units ready to go by the first month of the PSVR's launch and this is a device meant to go several years, then 10 million is a pretty conservative prediction IMO. I'm personally guessing 15-20 million lifetime. Of course software drives sales and we only have a brief glimpse into the software side of things so far, heck we don't even have a confirmed launch lineup yet.

I'm kinda hoping that we see a PSVR2 mode for Death Stranding released, and then support for PSVR2 on Death Stranding 2. We know Kojima's got a PSVR2 devkit, so we can only guess what he might do. It will certainly be interesting to see how many games opt for a hybrid approach where they can be played on TV and VR. RE8 is a good start, building off of what was done with RE7. It'll also offer an additional unique selling point in multi-plat games that might convince more people to go with the PlayStation version if those games also get VR content included.
Im taking we dont know the retail price yet?

If it comes in at £350 ish then maybe they up the attach rate, but seeing as they are selling a pro controller for over £200 i cant see this being anything less than £499 minimum. Figures pulled from my ass of course.
 

midnightAI

Member
Im taking we dont know the retail price yet?

If it comes in at £350 ish then maybe they up the attach rate, but seeing as they are selling a pro controller for over £200 i cant see this being anything less than £499 minimum. Figures pulled from my ass of course.
errrr.... am I missing something? did I just time travel?
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Hahahahaha you don't need try hide why you really want the video player.
M8 I have a wife and 2 kids ffs am I fuck risking getting caught bags down dick in hand oblivious to everything.. nah, gimmie a big IMAX screen with proper 3D and a decent Rez
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Sony hasn't done a proper showcase as of yet to market their next wave of games for the PS5 post-Ragnarok. It's anyones guess when said showcase would happen, it could be later in this year, or it could be early next year. Either way, they're holding back on all their first party announcements across the board right now. One would think that once they open the floodgates that additional VR content will be revealed in addition to everything else. It could also be that trailers aren't yet ready for certain games because the devs are hard at work trying to complete the games/VR modes for games. We know that polishing a vertical slice of a game to make a trailer can take a lot of time and redirect needed resources away from the actual work on the game, so for all we know that could be why fewer overall things have been shown.

PSVR2 was almost certainly supposed to come out this holiday season, but instead is coming out Feb 2023 likely because of software delays and possibly component delays. Couple that with Sony themselves holding back their first party content and that could explain why they're not drowning us in announcements. There's still 3.5 months for them to announce additional content for PSVR2. That could be shown at TGA, or a SOP, or a Showcase, or blog post.

I think its pretty obvious that the rumour about the showcase being cancelled due to the MS Acti purchase was true.

Look at what happened this last month. A huge resi 4 update ( Sony marketing) a massive silent hill showcase ( Sony marketing) an update on PSVR2 out of nowhere.

Just seems like the ps showcase was canned to me. Could be wrong though.
 

vivftp

Member
I think its pretty obvious that the rumour about the showcase being cancelled due to the MS Acti purchase was true.

Look at what happened this last month. A huge resi 4 update ( Sony marketing) a massive silent hill showcase ( Sony marketing) an update on PSVR2 out of nowhere.

Just seems like the ps showcase was canned to me. Could be wrong though.

It's not outside the realm of possibility (as in the chances aren't 0%), but I don't think we can call it obvious. Especially since said rumor originated from a random twitter insider with a highly sketchy track record. And as others have pointed out, Sony's still out there showing off exclusive games and content for games (RE8 VR, RE4 VR content, Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin, Silent Hill, FF16...), not to mention they're launching one of their biggest games in the past couple of years with God of War. Regulators aren't morons who will suddenly think Sony has no games just because they don't have a showcase, which is why the rumor has always been extremely silly as far as I'm concerned.

Other than Silent Hill, Sony has shown all of those other games at one of their State of Plays or a previous showcase. Capcom wanted to show off a multi-plat game in RE4 Remake, and that already got shown at a SoP, what would be the point of slotting that into a showcase? Even still, Sony got a custom version of that stream tailor made for PlayStation that streamed live on their channel. Konami had several Silent Hill projects to share and only one of them was linked to Sony, so it being part of their showcase isn't an indication that a PlayStation showcase was cancelled/delayed. As for FF16, that's already shown up at a showcase and a SoP, and this trailer didn't even include a release date. The game will probably be shown again when Sony does a showcase and I imagine that's where the release date will be announced.

As for PSVR2, yeah I did expect that to show up at a showcase, but if said showcase isn't planned until early 2023 then they couldn't wait until then since they had to open pre-orders. Given the current info available, maybe a January/February showcase isn't such a crazy idea.
 

Boss Man

Member
Idk how to take this seriously when you ignore the price of a high end gaming PC for PCVR but include the cost of a playstation for PSVR. How can you possibly justify that?
 
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Mate, give it up.

People spend more on a

No they don't, they spend money on payment plans because they can't afford them. People aren't throwing out $1200 outside a niche group of people
I suspect this is a Gen Z issue,

Already shows no argument of worth is coming.

I see the same whining about price of games these days. 70$ for a new game is nothing, when you look back 30 years and realise they cost roughly the same back then....

You mean when there were better paying jobs, the income was closer tot he cost of living, and money was worth 3000x more? So no they didn't cost the same as now?
 

Hero_Select

Member
There's plenty of reasons for them to not have it on PC, at least at launch. We don't know if Sony are taking a loss on each unit, if they are then they would aim to make that money back from game and accessory sales. Sony doesn't currently make any money from PC VR content, meaning they could wind up taking a loss on each unit with no way to earn any profit. Even if they're breaking even, every single unit that would go to a PC-only gamer is one less unit available to a PS5 gamer where they stand to make more money.

Now obviously Sony's got a renewed focus on PC so we very well may see them add PC support to PSVR2 in the future and port more games over. It would make even more sense if they eventually aim to create some form of PlayStation Store/launcher on PC at some point. At launch though, it doesn't make any real sense to support PC.
I mean Sony can do w/e they deem necessary in the end but as a consumer I don't care if they take a loss or not I just want my headset as versatile as possible you know?
I really like how it looks aesthetically and I'd LOVE to play RE8 on it but I have a sizable PCVR/Quest library that I don't want to leave behind. I might just end up waiting for w/e the Quest 3 is or if Valve decides to update their Index with OLED lenses or something.
 

Reallink

Member
Just so everyone is aware. I'm a massive VR fan and I will be buying this no matter what at some point. I just was hoping to see more of a push from Sony but like you said we may see something closer to launch. I'm just stumped as to why they wouldn't want to blow us away with the announcement.

Cause there's nothing to blow you away with, this is all they've got and all that's coming. It's clear they see PSVR2 as even less of a focus than PSVR1, they're just trying to monetize their R&D with minimum effort. Only reason they're still spending anything on VR is cause they know Apple and Meta are and they don't want to risk getting lapped.
 

ZehDon

Member
The resolution for foveated rendering isn't fixed, you can alter the resolution and size of the foveated area, using FFR the area was quite large and outside of that (for most PSVR games at least which did have FFR) the resolution wasn't lowered all that much, that's why Tobii are quoting 2.5x for FFR and 3.6x for dynamic so there are performance gains, and like I said, when you effectively look around the display using dynamic foveated rendering you see the full resolution compared to FFR which is blurred around the edges so visual gains also.
You might be getting your wires crossed there. It was Unity who posted the "2.5x and 3.6x" speed improvements, for FFR and ETFR respectively, as part of a GDC talk. However, their same presentation presents a range - where ETFR provides anything from an imperceptible improvement up to 100% improvement. Given Carmack's comments, and his history with both game rendering and VR, I'm more inclined to think he's right, and it'll provide the lower, rather than the higher, in the majority of use cases. Unity was also only discussing frametime, and weren't entirely clear if it covered motion to photon. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt there and presume they meant motion to photon inclusive improvements.

...Once I think about the cost to get to the games I want and the visuals I want yes it is better...
Given PSVR2's lack of backwards compatibility, and it's terrible launch line up, you must be extremely disappointed in PSVR2, given this comment? Apart from Horizon, there's basically nothing worth looking at?

Yes you are being unfair, you are comparing a headset that is newer and better specced (Wireless aside) and we are talking here in the UK about £459 for the Oculus Quest 2 with controllers vs the £530 PSVR2 bundle with controllers. Meta is still heavily subsidising it too (they are spending a fortune on the meta verse).
Newer means jack, and its specs only matter if it provides value for the cost. Right now, I'm not seeing it. It's more expensive, and requires an expensive console, to... play mostly the same games as the Quest 2? Horizon looks terrific - no arguments there - but is one game isn't worth all the extra cost if you're just looking to get into VR? This is the point I'm trying to make: PSVR1 and PS4 were an easy recommendation to jump into VR. I sold a few bundles to friends with a demo at my house, people who don't own consoles. With PSVR2, that demographic evaporates: I'm not telling friends to spend AUD$1700+, not in this economy. It's no longer an easy recommendation, because for all the extra cost, you're not getting that much more value. Just get a Quest 2, and enjoy top shelf titles, for a fraction of the cost. Based on the title of the thread, this feels relevant, because that demographic obviously factored into PSVR1's success.

... For some reason not only people are not mentioning eye tracking as one of the non cheap specs differences (haptic feedback too), but are now downplaying it? Odd…
In terms of game design, eye tracking is an unproven addition, so it's hard for people to know if it's worth getting excited for or not. In terms of performance, eye tracking has already come under question - as I've posted above. Check my post history: I was excited as heck when PSVR2 confirmed it had eye tracking and it was fast enough for foveated rendering. I was doubly excited for the partnership with Tobii, because I have experience and history with their products. Then Carmack steps in and explains its actually not the massive win we all thought, performance wise. Now, it's up to Sony to demonstrate it's worth all that extra money. Given their launch line up, they're not doing it yet. Again, that plays into the thread's discussion: can PSVR2 succeed given it's launch cost and line up? I'm not convinced.
 
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Tams

Gold Member
No they don't, they spend money on payment plans because they can't afford them. People aren't throwing out $1200 outside a niche group of people


Already shows no argument of worth is coming.



You mean when there were better paying jobs, the income was closer tot he cost of living, and money was worth 3000x more? So no they didn't cost the same as now?
You can finance anything these days. They even bombard you at the checkout with the option too.
 

Tams

Gold Member
There's plenty of reasons for them to not have it on PC, at least at launch. We don't know if Sony are taking a loss on each unit, if they are then they would aim to make that money back from game and accessory sales. Sony doesn't currently make any money from PC VR content, meaning they could wind up taking a loss on each unit with no way to earn any profit. Even if they're breaking even, every single unit that would go to a PC-only gamer is one less unit available to a PS5 gamer where they stand to make more money.

Now obviously Sony's got a renewed focus on PC so we very well may see them add PC support to PSVR2 in the future and port more games over. It would make even more sense if they eventually aim to create some form of PlayStation Store/launcher on PC at some point. At launch though, it doesn't make any real sense to support PC.
Not to mention many PC gamers are cheapskates.

Sure, some blow their load on system where the GPU alone costs more than a PS5 and PSVR 2 combined, but then many of those then are not prepared to pay 60-70 for a game, not pay a subscription for something.
 
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vivftp

Member
Cause there's nothing to blow you away with, this is all they've got and all that's coming. It's clear they see PSVR2 as even less of a focus than PSVR1, they're just trying to monetize their R&D with minimum effort. Only reason they're still spending anything on VR is cause they know Apple and Meta are and they don't want to risk getting lapped.

What type of bullshittery is this?
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
And?

(also I'm pretty f'kin sure that PSVR 2 will get more than 4 games that aren't Quest 2 ports throughout its lifespan)

Didnt want to do lists, but anyway:

Affected: The Asylum
After Life
After The Fall
Aliens VR
Alvo
Among Us
Blacktop Hoops
Black Trail
Cave Digger 2: Dig Harder
Cities
Crossfire: Sierra Squad
Cosmonious High
Demeo
Distortion
Do Not Open
Engram
The Exorcist: Legion VR - Sin
Firewall Ultra
Firmament
Galaxy Cart
Ghostbusters
Ghosts of Tabor
Golf Plus
Green Hell
Grimlord
Hello Neighbor: Search and Rescue
Hellsplit Arena
Horizon: Call of the Mountain
Hubris
Hyperstacks
Jurassic World Aftermath Collection
Kayak VR: Mirage
The Light Brigade
Low Fi
Madison
Medieval Synasty
Mixture
No Mans Sky
Pavlov VR
Pistol Whip
Project Lousiana: The Bounds
Propogation: Paradise Hotel
Resident Evil 4
Resident Evil Village
Requisition
Runner
R-Type Final 3
Samurai Slaughterhouse
Shadowgate: The Mines of Mythrok
Soul of Kaeru
Star Wars: Tales from the Galaxy's Edge
Super Kit: To the Top
Switchback
Tentacular
The Twilight Zone
Ultrawings 2
Vanishing Act
Volcanic Core
Walking Dead: Saints and Sinners
Wandering In Space
Zenith: The Last City

and these are just the ones we know about, there will be many unannounced games

You say that and then list a bunch of ports. Not sure why you guys keep arguing and then proving my point.
 
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ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I really don't understand what your saying. I know the quest 2s hardware is vastly inferior to the PS5s. Which is why it will never be able to match the IQ that the PS5 is capable of. Plus the overall specs of PSVR2 is superior.

I don't see how both are on par unless you hook the Quest 2 with a powerful PC. Even then the hardware of the device is still inferior to PSVR2s.

psvr2-infographic-1641587564079.png


I'm just going off official specs BTW.

119908099_10160352607729676_4289620990629755170_n.png

PlayStation-5-specs.jpg

All these and mostly ports like Tentacular and Cities VR.
Just like every other console launch ever made, this is such a thinly veiled troll argument.

PS5 launch exclusives:
  • Astro's Playroom - (pre-installed in all PS5 devices)
  • Demon's Souls.
  • Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales - (also available for PS4)
  • Sackboy: A Big Adventure - (also available for PS4)

Xbox Series X launch exclusives:

Xbox one launch exclusives:
  • Dead Rising 3 (Capcom)
  • Forza Motorsport 5 (Turn 10)
  • LocoCycle (Twisted Pixel)
  • Killer Instinct (Double Helix)
  • Ryse: Son of Rome (Crytek)
PS4 launch exclusives:
  • DC Universe Online (Sony Online Entertainment)
  • DriveClub (Evolution Studios)
  • Killzone: Shadow Fall (Guerrilla Games)
  • Knack (SCE Japan Studio)
  • Warframe (Digital Extremes)
They are all equally disappointing ngl.
 
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Reallink

Member
What type of bullshittery is this?
The bullshittery is their entire software lineup being a bunch of 3+ year old ports, a couple Resident Evil mods, and an on rails Horizon experience from their Indie studio.
 
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midnightAI

Member
You say that and then list a bunch of ports. Not sure why you guys keep arguing and then proving my point.
Because it's a list of third part pc ports, third party quest ports and first and third party PSVR 2 exclusive games.

Why do you not understand that? It's the equivalent of a new console launch and you are complaining that there are more cross platform games than there are exclusives, it's weird.

You remind me of this....
 

vivftp

Member
The bullshittery is their entire software lineup being a bunch of 3+ year old ports, a couple Resident Evil mods, and an on rails Horizon experience from their Indie studio.

We don't have a confirmed launch lineup yet, so no we don't yet know their entire lineup. There's still 3.5 months until launch for additional content to be revealed both for the launch window and beyond.

Ports were always going to be part of their lineup, both from PC and from PSVR. As for a few games that're not "3+ year old ports", off the top of my head...

- The Walking Dead Saints and Sinners: Chapter 2 releases Dec 1, 2022 so it'll be almost 3 months by the time PSVR2 launches
- Firewall Ultra is a PlayStation published title for PSVR2
- The Dark Pictures: Switchback VR is a day 1 PSVR2 title
- Ghostbuster: Rise of the Ghost Lord will release in 2023 on PSVR2 and Quest 2
- Horizon Call of the Mountain

Resident Evil 7 VR was very well received, in spite of the limitations of the PSVR headset. PSVR2 getting a port of Resident Evil 8 in VR is notable even if you wish to downplay it. We'll have to see what exactly RE4 Remake has for PSVR2.

As for Horizon CotM, it's a free roaming title where only combat and maybe an initial boat ride are on the rails. As for calling a first party studio of ~300 devs who're working on multiple AAA games indie... 🤦‍♂️


As for your earlier post of:

"Cause there's nothing to blow you away with, this is all they've got and all that's coming. It's clear they see PSVR2 as even less of a focus than PSVR1, they're just trying to monetize their R&D with minimum effort. Only reason they're still spending anything on VR is cause they know Apple and Meta are and they don't want to risk getting lapped."

If you're not blown away then that's fine, wait to see what else they've got. Beyond that, the rest of this is all just conspiracy theory laden bullcrap with no basis in reality.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Because it's a list of third part pc ports, third party quest ports and first and third party PSVR 2 exclusive games.

Why do you not understand that? It's the equivalent of a new console launch and you are complaining that there are more cross platform games than there are exclusives, it's weird.

You remind me of this....


Yes, I do understand most of them are ports that people can or has played on Quest 2 and PCVR.
 
And?

(also I'm pretty f'kin sure that PSVR 2 will get more than 4 games that aren't Quest 2 ports throughout its lifespan)

Didnt want to do lists, but anyway:

Affected: The Asylum
After Life
After The Fall
Aliens VR
Alvo
Among Us
Blacktop Hoops
Black Trail
Cave Digger 2: Dig Harder
Cities
Crossfire: Sierra Squad
Cosmonious High
Demeo
Distortion
Do Not Open
Engram
The Exorcist: Legion VR - Sin
Firewall Ultra
Firmament
Galaxy Cart
Ghostbusters
Ghosts of Tabor
Golf Plus
Green Hell
Grimlord
Hello Neighbor: Search and Rescue
Hellsplit Arena
Horizon: Call of the Mountain
Hubris
Hyperstacks
Jurassic World Aftermath Collection
Kayak VR: Mirage
The Light Brigade
Low Fi
Madison
Medieval Synasty
Mixture
No Mans Sky
Pavlov VR
Pistol Whip
Project Lousiana: The Bounds
Propogation: Paradise Hotel
Resident Evil 4
Resident Evil Village
Requisition
Runner
R-Type Final 3
Samurai Slaughterhouse
Shadowgate: The Mines of Mythrok
Soul of Kaeru
Star Wars: Tales from the Galaxy's Edge
Super Kit: To the Top
Switchback
Tentacular
The Twilight Zone
Ultrawings 2
Vanishing Act
Volcanic Core
Walking Dead: Saints and Sinners
Wandering In Space
Zenith: The Last City

and these are just the ones we know about, there will be many unannounced games
The RE4 in your list... that's the same as the oculus one, correct?
 
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