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[GHG]

kinda funny when Sony has dominated in many areas to, the Walkman for instance

This is like saying Apple aren't entitled to their share if the spoils because they created the iPhone and the accompanying ecosystem.

exactly and everybody had one. they have dominated themselves in many places. its just hypocritical to call out somebody for doing the same. they dominate the console market at the moment don't they

Some companies dominate by creating, others dominate by buying. There's a difference.

 

[MasterCornholio]

exactly and everybody had one. they have dominated themselves in many places. its just hypocritical to call out somebody for doing the same. they dominate the console market at the moment don't they

They actually don't own the console market at the moment. As for the Walkman I believe it was a major innovation that helped Sony get to where they are today.

 

[Three]

They aren't buying their way into a monopoly. They are ensuring that moving forward they can satisfy the demand for new and exclusive content that gamers crave. Bethesda and ActiBlizz were for sale before MS came knocking, could have been bought up by anyone large enough. You should be happy it wasn't Embracer, Tencent, or Amazon.

Why should I be happy it wasn't embracer exactly? or even Tencent or Amazon. You think Embracer can't satisfy demand for new content?

 

[Victor Omega]

Game pass gamers getting their feelings hurt on here, I see. Slight jab.

The truth hurts. The more Microsoft acquires for Xbox, the fewer choices gamers will have (the end user will not sense this in any way. To them, it will just be another service they are subscribed to.

We are tossing the word monopoly around derogatively here when there is another term that is much closer to what Jimbo is referring to:

Legal Monopoly​

A legal monopoly offers a specific product or service at a regulated price. It can either be independently run and government regulated, or both government-run and government regulated. A legal monopoly is also known as a "statutory monopoly."

Examples of Legal Monopolies are: USPS, NFL, and the now renamed, split up, then reemerged AT&T, once called Bell Telephone Company.

This is an extreme case, but someone like Microsoft could monopolize gaming legally.

 

[phil_t98]

They actually don't own the console market at the moment. As for the Walkman I believe it was a major innovation that helped Sony get to where they are today.

could say the same with Microsoft and windows

 

[MasterCornholio]

could say the same with Microsoft and windows

You're not making any sense here. Just say what you really mean.

 

[phil_t98]

This is like saying Apple aren't entitled to their share if the spoils because they created the iPhone and the accompanying ecosystem.



Some companies dominate by creating, others dominate by buying. There's a difference.

yeah, Sony does buy exclusivity and keeps things from other consoles. we all know that, they have a history of it and yes other companies do it to.

I mean Bungie, they bought bungie recently, they have come out and said its to help make GAAS. so that's them buying the talent to do that.

 

[phil_t98]

They actually don't own the console market at the moment. As for the Walkman I believe it was a major innovation that helped Sony get to where they are today.

you said it there, Sony made the walkman which is a major innovation, that's Microsoft and windows. They made a major innovation back in the day and its helped them to where they are now

 

[MasterCornholio]

you said it there, Sony made the walkman which is a major innovation, that's Microsoft and windows. They made a major innovation back in the day and its helped them to where they are now

So what does that have to do with buying a publisher?

 

[phil_t98]

So what does that have to do with buying a publisher?

the title of the post about Jim Ryan saying Microsoft have a history of Dominating , Sony have that to is my point.Sony products are awesome do not get me wrong, my PS5 is amazing but I think Jim is being a hypocrite in saying this with a company like Sony where they have dominated areas themselves

 

[GHG]

yeah, Sony does buy exclusivity and keeps things from other consoles. we all know that, they have a history of it and yes other companies do it to.

I mean Bungie, they bought bungie recently, they have come out and said its to help make GAAS. so that's them buying the talent to do that.

Nothing wrong with making purchases that are supplementary to your existing business, most companies do it. And as such we see most of those deals going through without requiring regulatory scrutiny, Microsoft have even made several of those themselves recently.

The same goes for hashing out mutually beneficial deals with partners, you won't find an industry where that doesn't exist. Even outside of videogames I can guarantee you will have used or consumed a product today where exactly that has taken place.

However what most companies can't afford to do however is make single purchases of companies that pull in ~50% of the revenue of the business it's been added to.

 

[phil_t98]

Nothing wrong with making purchases that are supplementary to your existing business, most companies do it. And as such we see most of those deals going through without requiring regulatory scrutiny, Microsoft have even made several of those themselves recently.

The same goes for hashing out mutually beneficial deals with partners, you won't find an industry where that doesn't exist. Even outside of videogames I can guarantee you will have used or consumed a product today where exactly that has taken place.

However what most companies can't afford to do however is make single purchases of companies that pull in ~50% of the revenue of the business it's been added to.

yeah that's fair enough

just because its being looked at doesn't mean it won't go through or its a bad thing. I remember Disney getting looked at with the Fox deal also. its good they check things, I imagine more deals in the future will be looked at if Microsoft or Sony purchase more studios which is a good thing for us consumers

 

[Pelta88]

the title of the post about Jim Ryan saying Microsoft have a history of Dominating , Sony have that to is my point.Sony products are awesome do not get me wrong, my PS5 is amazing but I think Jim is being a hypocrite in saying this with a company like Sony where they have dominated areas themselves

There isn't an industry or market where Sony is the dominant player. They compete on the strength of their technology, services, IP, entertainment etc. For example, Sony make incredible DSLR cameras and lenses. But so does Cannon, Nikkon, Fuji, Panasonic etc etc etc

 

[Punished Miku]

Microsoft's monopoly, if they were to gain one, wouldn't be a result of actually comeptitjng in the traditional way of the games, market, or any market, really. They haven't fostered anything.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

People really be using the Walkman as a reason to why Jim Ryan should be quiet.

The fucking walkman! LMAO!

 

[GHG]

yeah that's fair enough

just because its being looked at doesn't mean it won't go through or its a bad thing. I remember Disney getting looked at with the Fox deal also. its good they check things, I imagine more deals in the future will be looked at if Microsoft or Sony purchase more studios which is a good thing for us consumers

Personally I think more should be looked at (not just purchases, but also certain business strategies) but the regulators only ever have so many resources unfortunately.

 

[MasterCornholio]

the title of the post about Jim Ryan saying Microsoft have a history of Dominating , Sony have that to is my point.Sony products are awesome do not get me wrong, my PS5 is amazing but I think Jim is being a hypocrite in saying this with a company like Sony where they have dominated areas themselves

Honestly the Walkman failed in the end so I don't see how that was dominating anything.

 

[phil_t98]

Honestly the Walkman failed in the end so I don't see how that was dominating anything.

they sold over 400 million walkman devices, you call that failure?

 

[phil_t98]

People really be using the Walkman as a reason to why Jim Ryan should be quiet.

The fucking walkman! LMAO!

who said he should be quiet?

 

[Three]

could say the same with Microsoft and windows

You can but the Walkman didn't have an antitrust case against it like windows did because it didn't participate in anti competitive behaviour like strongarming OEMs to not make products with competing OS or abuse that position for other markets like browsers. Just having a good selling product you've created isn't the problem.

 

[GHG]

Honestly the Walkman failed in the end so I don't see how that was dominating anything.

It wasn't a failure, they just failed to transition to the digital era because they were insistent on using proprietary formats instead of universal ones. It's one of those instances where consumers self-policed and rejected something that wasn't beneficial to them.

 

[mansoor1980]

great thread

 

[NickFire]

You can but the Walkman didn't have an antitrust case against it like windows did because it didn't participate in anti competitive behaviour like strongarming OEMs to not make products with competing OS or abuse that position for other markets like browsers. Just having a good selling product you've created isn't the problem.

I can’t believe the Walkman is being used as an example of anything related to this thread. That is absurd. It was nothing more than a better version than most others handheld cassette players, with a waterproof option. And it played cassettes sold by anyone. It did not have exclusive cassettes.

 

[Three]

It wasn't a failure, they just failed to transition to the digital era because they were insistent on using proprietary formats instead of universal ones. It's one of those instances where consumers self-policed and rejected something that wasn't beneficial to them.

I think it's more that the ipod and itunes did really well as a competing product. Sony tried with this walkman but failed

As did MS with the Zune and they had no format to support.

 

[tommib]

Top 4 threads on this forum at the time of posting:

A small handful of people here are working overtime.

You’re failing by not clicking ignore on each of them.

Main gaming topics turned into an Xbox Marketplace. The not-so-subtle shilling for Gamepass was not enough. They went full hardcore. Next they’ll be offering vouchers.

 

[MasterCornholio]

they sold over 400 million walkman devices, you call that failure?

Well of course it was successful in the beginning. But it died and isn't around anymore. Sony tried to revive it when the ipod came out but they failed to adapt.

 

[Slicker than your average]

the title of the post about Jim Ryan saying Microsoft have a history of Dominating , Sony have that to is my point.Sony products are awesome do not get me wrong, my PS5 is amazing but I think Jim is being a hypocrite in saying this with a company like Sony where they have dominated areas themselves

Sony doesn't have a history of buying out the competition. MS has been doing it for years. And they're doing it right now in gaming.

You’re failing by not clicking ignore on each of them.

Main gaming topics turned into an Xbox Marketplace. The not-so-subtle shilling for Gamepass was not enough. They went full hardcore. Next they’ll be offering vouchers.

Wasn't there obsessive gamepass spam at one point where the mods had to get involved due to the shills working overtime then to.

 

[Pelta88]

You’re failing by not clicking ignore on each of them.

Main gaming topics turned into an Xbox Marketplace. The not-so-subtle shilling for Gamepass was not enough. They went full hardcore. Next they’ll be offering vouchers.

Damn.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I can’t believe the Walkman is being used as an example of anything related to this thread. That is absurd. It was nothing more than a better version than most others handheld cassette players, with a waterproof option. And it played cassettes sold by anyone. It did not have exclusive cassettes.

Sony does own a music label. But that music was playable on all devices not just Sony Walkmans.

It's just really weird to drag walkman into this @phil_98 . I don't even know what your trying to argue anymore.

It's like saying that WW2 helped make Sony successful and therefore they should own Japan. Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[NickFire]

Sony does own a music label. But that music was playable on all devices not just Sony Walkmans.

It's just really weird to drag walkman into this @phil_98 . I don't even know what your trying to argue anymore.

It's like saying that WW2 helped make Sony successful and therefore they should own Japan. Doesn't make any sense to me.

I know it does. But yes, this was a weird thing to bring up. Especially for people who grew up with them.

 

[GHG]

I think it's more that the ipod and itunes did really well as a competing product. Sony tried with this walkman but failed

As did MS with the Zune and they had no format to support.

It was prior to the ipod and itunes that they started to lose ground. There was a period in between minidiscs (which were also somewhat of a failure for them) and CD's where MP3 players started to get popular. While everyone else in the space were offering simple mp3 players that didn't require special treatment or software to work Sony were insistent on carrying forward ATRAC from their minidisc days.

There were some benefits such as superior compression which allowed you to hold more than double the amount of songs vs a similarly spec'd MP3 player but people wanted ease of use. Their software was bloated, slow and shite, and people just wanted to easily share songs over the internet and throw them straight onto their portable device without any hassle.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I know it does. But yes, this was a weird thing to bring up. Especially for people who grew up with them.

Yes I agree. Nobody should be using the Walkman to justify Sony being successful in the console market. If anything it's the decisions that Sony made starting from the PSX that lead them to having a successful decisions. And yes that includes Sony learning from their mistakes with the PS3.

What Walkman has to do with this. I have no idea.

 

[ReBurn]

This is like saying Apple aren't entitled to their share if the spoils because they created the iPhone and the accompanying ecosystem.



Some companies dominate by creating, others dominate by buying. There's a difference.

If it hadn't been for Microsoft investing in Apple to help pull them out of bankruptcy the iPhone probably never would have existed. And I have some bad news for you.

Sony didn't become what they are now through their own creativity. Across various verticals, including music, optical technology, and gaming, they bought a lot of it. Just look at gaming. Their best studios are the studios they purchased. They paid billions to buy Bungie for their live service technology and expertise. So it would be a disingenuous argument to imply that Sony built PlayStation through their own creativity when nearly all of that creativity was purchased. They even outsourced primary console architecture to Mark Cerny.

 

[vkbest]

There is no good or bad side here. Both companies are businesses. Do you really think that Ryan cares about "choice for gamers?" He cares about Call of Duty on PlayStation because that game is bringing so much money for Sony every year. Not because he has gamers best interest in heart. He is not even gamer for god sake. He is doing everything he can to do business in best interest of shareholders. Both of them. Nothing more, nothing less. So claiming, that he is somehow "good" is pretty sad.

I never said he is good, or Sony is good. I have several opinions against Sony in this same forum, because her new online services strategy or her censorship rules

But clearly, Sony is not bad here too. They are fighting their interest because MS is burning money to buy the half of industry. They did previously. So to me it's pretty normal, Activision buyout investigated by antitrust regulators, and Sony complaining about the impact those buyouts can do to them. This is not a big company, this a huge publisher thing.

 

[GHG]

If it hadn't been for Microsoft investing in Apple to help pull them out of bankruptcy the iPhone probably never would have existed. And I have some bad news for you.

Sony didn't become what they are now through their own creativity. Across various verticals, including music, optical technology, and gaming, they bought a lot of it. Just look at gaming. Their best studios are the studios they purchased. They paid billions to buy Bungie for their live service technology and expertise. So it would be a disingenuous argument to imply that Sony built PlayStation through their own creativity when nearly all of that creativity was purchased. They even outsourced primary console architecture to Mark Cerny.

Are you seriously attempting to credit Microsoft with the success that the iPhone became?

And please read my subsequent posts in this thread, should help clear up a few things for you.

 

[yurinka]

Yes how horrible Microsoft the Tech Giant, as opposed to the little guy garage startup Sony

Sony has a market cap of $101.44B and MS has a market cap of $1.839 Trillion.

Nobody said that Sony is a guy garage startup, but it's true that there is a huge difference between them as corporations and that MS has certain tradition regarding monopolistic practices outside gaming.

The market data says that MS is quite far from having a monopoly or even to be market leader in gaming, console gaming, PC gaming, mobile gaming, VR gaming or even game subscriptions, even adding Activision Blizzard King's numbers on top even if we don't consider that ABK's revenue would be massively reduced by including their new games day one on GP and that some of them pretty likely some of them would end becoming console exclusive losing the revenue from the top grossing platform for their AAA games: PlayStation.

For that reason I think that all regulators will aprove the acquisition after investigating the market data, but I understand that seeing them spending around $100B in a few years acquiring important publishers, studios and big IPs, including the top grossing 3rd party publisher and IP may raise concerns on regulators and at Sony specially considering that MS said that they won't stop here and will continue with big acquisitions.

So their concern could be not for this specific acquisition itself but instead for the full list of acquisitions MS had in recent years and will continue having. Again, knowing the monopolistic practices MS had in other tech areas in the past like with PC OS, web browsers, etc.

 

[Swift_Star]

All of that post was debunked, fake news and twisting history. Think for yourself for once and do your research. How sad to get fooled so easily.

The only thing they can do is lie because history doesn’t agree with them. The worst here is the green rats pretending trillionaire company Microsoft failed because of Sonys power moves, not because they’re incompetent. But these are the facts: MS can’t compete without buying the competition. They’re not some underdog, they’re just incompetent.

 

[Swift_Star]

This starting to make Sony look like massive cry baby. Embarrassing for company with such a history.

Sure, Sony should just step away and let MS run with it. You wish.
It’s not gonna happen and they should push harder and harder so MS has to compromise even more if they wish this deal goes through.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Sony has a market cap of $101.44B and MS has a market cap of $1.839 Trillion.

Nobody said that Sony is a guy garage startup, but it's true that there is a huge difference between them as corporations and that MS has certain tradition regarding monopolistic practices outside gaming.

The market data says that MS is quite far from having a monopoly or even to be market leader in gaming, console gaming, PC gaming, mobile gaming, VR gaming or even game subscriptions, even adding Activision Blizzard King's numbers on top even if we don't consider that ABK's revenue would be massively reduced by including their new games day one on GP and that some of them pretty likely some of them would end becoming console exclusive losing the revenue from the top grossing platform for their AAA games: PlayStation.

For that reason I think that all regulators will aprove the acquisition after investigating the market data, but I understand that seeing them spending around $100B in a few years acquiring important publishers, studios and big IPs, including the top grossing 3rd party publisher and IP may raise concerns on regulators and at Sony specially considering that MS said that they won't stop here and will continue with big acquisitions. So their concern could be not for this specific acquisition itselft but instead for the full list of acquisitions MS had in recent years and will continue having.

That's probably it. If Microsoft keeps going after large multiplatform publishers at some point they will be stopped. Whatever Microsoft does with Activision will have an influence on future acquisitions.

 

[Swift_Star]

Not necessarily. If the biggest war chest were the main factor most of us would be reading this on windows phones or surface computers while listening to music on our zune music players.

None of this is happening because MS, as usual, is incompetent and shortsighted.
Money can’t buy vision or strategy.

 

[Interfectum]

This starting to make Sony look like massive cry baby. Embarrassing for company with such a history.

What they are doing is working though. And are you for MS buying Acti-Blizz?

 

[Swift_Star]

exactly and everybody had one. they have dominated themselves in many places. its just hypocritical to call out somebody for doing the same. they dominate the console market at the moment don't they

Sony created the Walkman and never tried to stop others from developing alternatives, did they? Dominating a field because you CREATED something is not the same as buying your way into monopoly. Bad take.

 

[Thebonehead]

Sounds like something an X-goon would write.
Your proper thick aren't you eh?
You keep on reversing Sony and MS and come up with what Xbox would do? WHY?
Sony wouldn't buy AB even if they had the money. It would be a massive waste.
Also why would Sony buy ABK to have them make games only for PS? The deal would never go through.

You seem unhinged. Your posts are frothing more and more.

Guess this is what you saw in the mirror after your tirade over a series of posts earlier

 

[Topher]

Ding, ding, ding!

Sony are scared that they are witnessing to them the shit they did for over 20 years.

What goes around comes around.

Are we pretending Microsoft has never engaged in these practices now?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Are we pretending Microsoft has never engaged in these practices now?

Revisionist history with a dabble of gamer amnesia. Summed up to, "it's only okay when my brand does it."

 

[DenchDeckard]

Are we pretending Microsoft has never engaged in these practices now?

nope, I'm just saying that MS are learning from the best. My comments were that Sony cant handle that they are having done to them what theyve done their entire history in gaming.

It's all fair game for these guys. Why can Sony do it but no one else can?

 

[MasterCornholio]

Sony created the Walkman and never tried to stop others from developing alternatives, did they? Dominating a field because you CREATED something is not the same as buying your way into monopoly. Bad take.

I actually felt weird not owning this at the time.

This was actually my first MP3 player.

 

[DeepEnigma]

nope, I'm just saying that MS are learning from the best. My comments were that Sony cant handle that they are having done to them what theyve done their entire history in gaming.

It's all fair game for these guys. Why can Sony do it but no one else can?

User must have slept through the entire 360 generation.

 

[MasterCornholio]

nope, I'm just saying that MS are learning from the best. My comments were that Sony cant handle that they are having done to them what theyve done their entire history in gaming.

It's all fair game for these guys. Why can Sony do it but no one else can?

Are you just talking about marketing deals?

There's nothing stopping Microsoft from making them.

 

[tommib]

I actually felt weird not owning this at the time.

This was actually my first MP3 player.

I had the same one! 512 megabytes! Everyone was envious.