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Jim Ryan: "[Microsoft is] a tech giant with a long history of dominating industries, the choices gamers have today will disappear"

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Lupin25

Member
I don’t know why ppl advocate for publishers to be swallowed up then attempt whataboutism, “if it were Sony…” to justify a point that doesn’t exist.

If you want it to be on gamepass, just say that. 😂

I don’t believe MS needs to purchase Activision-Blizzard anymore than Sony does. They both have TONS of games in development. Get those out first.
 

hinch7

Member
I actually felt weird not owning this at the time.

images


This was actually my first MP3 player.

images
Bit offtopic but wow, those are a blast from the past. Never saw the appeal to Apple's ecosystem and refuse to deal with Itunes.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Are you seriously attempting to credit Microsoft with the success that the iPhone became?

And please read my subsequent posts in this thread, should help clear up a few things for you.
No, I'm no crediting Microsoft for the success of the iPhone. I'm crediting Microsoft for investing $150 million in a competitor that was circling the drain instead of just "dominating through buying" as you are implying. History is what it is.

Your posts in this thread and many other threads clear up a lot of things. You're all over the place downplaying Microsoft by implying that they have to use their money buy success. You're also implyimg that Sony achieved their own success through their own innovation and creativity. But that isn't even close to reality.
 
Bit offtopic but wow, those are a blast from the past. Never saw the appeal to Apple's ecosystem and refuse to deal with Itunes.

Funny how when those things came out they were the latest and greatest. Now any cheap smartphone is more useful than them.

I did enjoy them while I had them.
 

Topher

Gold Member
nope, I'm just saying that MS are learning from the best. My comments were that Sony cant handle that they are having done to them what theyve done their entire history in gaming.

It's all fair game for these guys. Why can Sony do it but no one else can?

Dude.....Microsoft invented all these business practices before PlayStation was even ever a thing. Sony didn't teach Microsoft jack shit.
 

GHG

Gold Member
You're all over the place downplaying Microsoft by implying that they have to use their money buy success.

That is exactly what they do though, across pretty much all of the industries they are involved in. To deny that you would have to have your head buried in the sand.

Most other successful businesses primarily rely on in house (or partnerships) for innovation and then supplement that with a series of smaller acquisitions where appropriate.

For Microsoft its the opposite and their acquisitions tend to be outsized for their respective industries/business areas. They literally have a history of purchasing companies with the aim of absorbing their features/products and then shutting the original business down. Doing that adds nothing to the involved industries and only serves to reduce competition for themselves.

Kind of like how the future of gaming is subscription models.

Well we will have to see how that turns out. Hopefully the end result isn't a huge crater representing what used to be.
 
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hinch7

Member
Funny how when those things came out they were the latest and greatest. Now any cheap smartphone is more useful than them.

I did enjoy them while I had them.
Yeah, the iPod was must desired (and pricey!) and MP3 players were hot stuff. Even going back CD players etc.. tech has moved on a lot since pre smartphone era/s. I still remember carrying my own DAP's and ripped tracks. But I also feel like a lot of magic has gone since those days. Maybe because some of my favourite songs and artists were around that era lol.

Dedicated players are now all but dead and only for enthusiasts. Same with wired 3.5mm earphones.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Sony created the Walkman and never tried to stop others from developing alternatives, did they? Dominating a field because you CREATED something is not the same as buying your way into monopoly. Bad take.
Sony tried to force their proprietary Atrac codec as the digital standard in the portable media player market and nearly killed their own portable media player business. They tried to lock out MP3 by not allowing it on their devices, preventing people from easily bringing their own music to the devices they bought. And they were very opaque in their marketing with most people not knowing they couldn't use MP3 until after they bought the player. Their attempt to use their market power to kill MP3 opened the door for Apple to take that market away from them.
 

Lex Tenebris

Neo Member
Sony did the same as MS with Sony Music, they bought others to become the second largest record company in the world. And in a lesser way they did it also with Sony Pictures and Sony Television.
Every company in the world to expand, merge with or buy other companies.
If it's not an hostile takeover i don't know what is the problem. Activision was searching someone to sell the company and MS agreed. I don't think Sony didn't know that, maybe they simply believed that no one would have bought them.
 

fallingdove

Member
nope, I'm just saying that MS are learning from the best. My comments were that Sony cant handle that they are having done to them what theyve done their entire history in gaming.

It's all fair game for these guys. Why can Sony do it but no one else can?

How many multi-studio publishers have Playstation purchased in their 25 year history?

And if you are referring to exclusivity deals — partnerships and exclusivity are among the most commonly used business strategies, you goober. I guarantee that Atari engaged in these practices; Nintendo sure as hell has. Practically every brand around you is negotiating better terms in an attempt to make their product more attractive, increase profitability and retain customers.

It’s laughable that you and so many other green rats are trying to white knight Microsoft after their history of anti-competitive, monopolistic practices.
 

M16

Member
Sony going against their own interests. They should be glad MS is buying activision because MS already said COD is not going anywhere on PS. If MS doesnt get them then Google or Amazon will swoop in, can make COD exclusive because that will allow them to get a leg in the industry and no regulator will have a problem with it.

But you know what. This seems like it's not about COD being on PS or not. Sony only cares about COD not being on gamepass. They don't want to compete with the gamepass model. They are afraid of it. They are willing to allow COD to be lost to another party than having COD but COD existing on gamepass.
 
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Zok310

Banned
It's like a flat circle at this point with the topic.

From what i see;
Sony would need a lot of luck to block this merger.
MS would need a lot of luck to walk away with ALL of ABK under their full control.

Sony's argument that an independently owned ABK is better for consumers than an ABK under MS total control. Hard to argue that. Outside of 1st party exclusives Sony does not own any of the companies that deliver their 3rd party exclusives. All their 3rd party pubs are free and open to cut deals with all 3 platforms holders (ps, xb, nin). MS getting Zenimax and ABK will stop that from happening, literally less choice. Imagine having to go to MS for 90% of the major fps ip, looking at MS past i cant see them wielding that blade kindly if allowed.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Sony going against their own interests. They should be glad MS is buying activision because MS already said COD is not going anywhere on PS. If MS doesnt get them then Google or Amazon will swoop in, can make COD exclusive because that will allow them to get a leg in the industry and no regulator will have a problem with it.

But you know what. This seems like it's not about COD being on PS or not. Sony only cares about COD not being on gamepass. They don't want to compete with the gamepass model. They are afraid of it. They are willing to allow COD to be lost to another party than having COD but COD existing on gamepass.
Ctrl-F "COD"
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
That is exactly what they do though, across pretty much all of the industries they are involved in. To deny that you would have to have your head buried in the sand.

Most other successful businesses primarily rely on in house (or partnerships) for innovation and then supplement that with a series of smaller acquisitions where appropriate.

For Microsoft its the opposite and their acquisitions tend to be outsized for their respective industries/business areas. They literally have a history of purchasing companies with the aim of absorbing their features/products and then shutting the original business down. Doing that adds nothing to the involved industries and only serves to reduce competition for themselves.



Well we will have to see how that turns out. Hopefully the end result isn't a huge crater representing what used to be.
It isn't exactly what they do, though. And when they do it isn't any different than what any large company does. Microsoft didn't start as the largest software company in the world. They built technology that led to their initial success. They've purchased to diversify and supplement their business, but they haven't stopped creating. They spend multiple billions on R&D every year.

Sony's story isn't all that different. They've built technology and they've bought it. When it comes to video games they had to purchase a large portion of the creative talent that has made them successful. More businesses buy other businesses to grow and expand than you seem to be willing to admit.

You're pushing a one-sided reality and I really don't understand why. Sony has its own history of trying to use its market power to dominate industries. Nintendo tried it as well.
 

Topher

Gold Member
How many multi-studio publishers have Playstation purchased in their 25 year history?

And if you are referring to exclusivity deals — partnerships and exclusivity are among the most commonly used business strategies, you goober. I guarantee that Atari engaged in these practices; Nintendo sure as hell has. Practically every brand around you is negotiating better terms in an attempt to make their product more attractive, increase profitability and retain customers.

It’s laughable that you and so many other green rats are trying to white knight Microsoft after their history of anti-competitive, monopolistic practices.

Exactly. I don't have a problem with folks calling out moneyhatting or anti-competitive practices regardless of what company engages in them, but to be so willfully ignorant and blatantly pretend Microsoft has been victimized by Sony all these years is beyond laughable.

It isn't exactly what they do, though. And when they do it isn't any different than what any large company does. Microsoft didn't start as the largest software company in the world. They built technology that led to their initial success. They've purchased to diversify and supplement their business, but they haven't stopped creating. They spend multiple billions on R&D every year.

Microsoft's "initial success" was built entirely from buying QDOS from Tim Patterson and then licensing it to IBM.
 
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Sony did the same as MS with Sony Music, they bought others to become the second largest record company in the world. And in a lesser way they did it also with Sony Pictures and Sony Television.
Every company in the world to expand, merge with or buy other companies.
If it's not an hostile takeover i don't know what is the problem. Activision was searching someone to sell the company and MS agreed. I don't think Sony didn't know that, maybe they simply believed that no one would have bought them.
Could have been Embracer, Tencent, or Amazon, buying ABK. I wonder how the reaction would have been if that was the case.
 

Orbital2060

Member
Sony did the same as MS with Sony Music, they bought others to become the second largest record company in the world. And in a lesser way they did it also with Sony Pictures and Sony Television.
Every company in the world to expand, merge with or buy other companies.
If it's not an hostile takeover i don't know what is the problem. Activision was searching someone to sell the company and MS agreed. I don't think Sony didn't know that, maybe they simply believed that no one would have bought them.
Touché

https://www.nytimes.com/1988/09/18/magazine/sony-and-cbs-records-what-a-romance.html

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-jul-20-fi-sonybmg20-story.html

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/22/sony-buys-emi-music-publishing-for-us19bn

Their road to becoming the (second?) largest music publisher in the world is littered with acquisitions like this. The company has been in the exact same position as Microsoft are now with ABK and the regulators and they know what it means. If Sony could buy ABK they would do it in a heartbeat.
 

phil_t98

#SonyToo
That does not dismiss his claim though or make it any less true.

no but I said he was hypocritical for saying it when they have down the same that's all. a bit like saying Microsoft could make exclusive content or timed deals for COD when that's exactly whatSony do already. I get why he is worried about his business which is fair enough but they call out Microsoft for the practices they do themself
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
no but I said he was hypocritical for saying it when they have down the same that's all. a bit like saying Microsoft could make exclusive content or timed deals for COD when that's exactly whatSony do already. I get why he is worried about his business which is fair enough but they call out Microsoft for the practices they do themself
It's not hypocritical in the context he is using. And no, they do not do these practices when it comes to buying the top 3rd party publishers and all their IPs.
 

Swift_Star

Banned
Sony tried to force their proprietary Atrac codec as the digital standard in the portable media player market and nearly killed their own portable media player business. They tried to lock out MP3 by not allowing it on their devices, preventing people from easily bringing their own music to the devices they bought. And they were very opaque in their marketing with most people not knowing they couldn't use MP3 until after they bought the player. Their attempt to use their market power to kill MP3 opened the door for Apple to take that market away from them.
None of that configures monopolistic practices. It's the same as not allowing PS games on xbox LMFAO. It's not even comparable. Alternatives existed since it was created.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Are you just talking about marketing deals?

There's nothing stopping Microsoft from making them.

We are going in circles, or I feel I am each month lol but we have seen evidence that Sony has contracts in place to stop games coming to gamepass etc. So we can't just simply say. MS can make deals. We don't know how easy it is for MS to make deals over Sony or to navigate a market with a clear leader who holds a lot of weight.

That's why we need fair competition.
 
The reaction would be remarkably different and that includes the reaction from Xbox fans.
The real question here is: is ABK going to be better for the consumer under MS versus being controlled by someone like Embracer, Tencent, or Amazon?

I don't want to sound naïve here. I'm under no delusions that MS is doing this for a competitive advantage for the future, by of all the companies that could have purchased a company like ABK, who was selling btw, it would be my opinion that MS would do the best job for the consumer in the long run. I'm mostly basing this on how they honored existing deal with Bethesda and Sony, and how Minecraft has been treated. They seem to understand that sometimes you have to make concessions here and there, the old heavy handed MS way seems to be less of a reality and more a thing of the past.
 
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Topher

Gold Member
We are going in circles, or I feel I am each month lol but we have seen evidence that Sony has contracts in place to stop games coming to gamepass etc. So we can't just simply say. MS can make deals. We don't know how easy it is for MS to make deals over Sony or to navigate a market with a clear leader who holds a lot of weight.

That's why we need fair competition.

I can give you a couple trillion reasons why Microsoft can absolutely "make deals".

Come On Reaction GIF by NBA
 

phil_t98

#SonyToo
It's not hypocritical in the context he is using. And no, they do not do these practices when it comes to buying the top 3rd party publishers and all their IPs.

they have bought Bunige with is a major 3rd party and have access to make their games exclusive, yes they have said they will remain on other platforms and we don't know for how long. they do the same thing, not as big as Activision of coarse but they do it. in the complaints about the deal they talked about exclusive content for cod and Microsoft and they have had exclusive content for cod and timed exclusivity read some of the threads about it.



as for Sony not doing it,


not in gaming but do it elsewhere when they can
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
they have bought Bunige with is a major 3rd party and have access to make their games exclusive, yes they have said they will remain on other platforms and we don't know for how long. they do the same thing, not as big as Activision of coarse but they do it. in the complaints about the deal they talked about exclusive content for cod and Microsoft and they have had exclusive content for cod and timed exclusivity read some of the threads about it.



as for Sony not doing it,


not in gaming but do it elsewhere when they can
Bungie is a developer that is remaining independent with a singular IP. Not two of the largest publishing houses with storied 3rd party franchises that span decades, one of being the largest pub/dev/IP houses in the world.
Awkward The Simpsons GIF
 

phil_t98

#SonyToo
Bungie is a developer that is remaining independent with a singular IP. Not two of the largest publishing houses with storied 3rd party franchises that span decades, one of being the largest pub/dev/IP houses in the world.
Awkward The Simpsons GIF


and the point about Sony creating a monopoly in music that I just showed you? ignoring that?
 

phil_t98

#SonyToo

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
well they bought them didn't they

so looks like the law didn't work that way then


be interesting to see how they hand this deal with Activision
The regulators did not see a monopoly. I don't think this acquisition of ABK is one either, but if allowed to continue, they will be 3rd party scooping wise. Does not negate the fact of disingenuous arguments of "bungie" when MS has also been buying solo developers this entire time as well.
 
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Time for sony to take 2 doses of copium daily should ms show no mercy and make it exclusive.
If MS walks out of this deal with full control and no concessions, and Sony balked at the 10 years because they thought the regulators would step in but didn't, I wont lose a moment of sleep if MS takes CoD and all other IP's to Xbox/PC only. None of these plastic boxes are too expensive, buy both if you want to play the respective exclusives.
 
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