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Jim Ryan: "[Microsoft is] a tech giant with a long history of dominating industries, the choices gamers have today will disappear"

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phil_t98

#SonyToo
Cous Sony worked hard to get a foothole in the musicindustry, they build it al by them self. MS is not building the xboxportifolio even not in 25 years. they had changes enough. But now that they could not deliver enough first party games they'r solution is to buy complete publishers and they said they want to buy even more if the deal goes trough?

And i dont get the xboxfans, all the games from all does publishers where coming to Xbox anyway.
All does games, without ore with the deal of buying al does publishers.
You guys would lose nothing and now your winning nothing.
Whats your problem?

I think you need to read up on it, Sony were a big music company but they bought out the company EMI and became massive.they bought the competition
 

Swift_Star

Banned
Is this really where we are at now? Let Microsoft break the industry and then force them to unwind after the fact?

Really?

How about it would be better to ensure they don't fuck the industry up in the first place?

This is how I know some of you really don't give a shit.
Of course they don’t. They just want their overlord to rule over all. That should be obvious at this point.
 
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phil_t98

#SonyToo
It isn’t. This is complete whataboutism and completely unrelated. Bad take all around.

The thread is about Jim Ryan saying Microsoft dominates in various areas of the tech industry. It’s hypocritical when Sony do in other areas

 

Swift_Star

Banned
If we were to look at something similar it would be like when Disney bought Lucas Arts. Basically content from Lucas Arts is exclusive to Disney + if I'm not wrong.

But I guess it's not that bad since you can still buy disks and use them in any player.
Disney having all these properties is really bad, though, I hope they get sliced at some point. Same for facebook. This is unhealthy.
 

Swift_Star

Banned
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phil_t98

#SonyToo
Music is not a tech industry, is it? 😂
You also can access Sony’s music on all major music services. This argument is really, really weak. 😂 Sony artists are not exclusive to Sony, completely unrelated. Sorry.


Operating system on a pc isn’t gaming, office software ain’t gaming either. So why Jim bring it up. He saying Microsoft dominates in other areas, Sony does to. Don’t understand why you don’t get that they are being hypocritical.

He’s bring things that are not in gaming to try and make Microsoft look bad, Sonia has dominated the console market for years. PS1, PS2 ,PS4 and probibly PS5 to
 
It's nothing like the same you clown. Sony don't own FF. Nothing stopping MS negotiating with SE or any other publisher for games.
Have you read the contracts Sony make the publishers sign?
They put blocks on them releasing their game on Gamepass.
They say that the developer can use tech in the XSX version that can be done in the PS5 version.
They cant have any extra DLC or shit on the Xbox version.
They have been acting like cunts.
They use the dominant position of the PS to force devs to signs contracts they would dare sign for Microsoft.
 
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Game pass gamers getting their feelings hurt on here, I see. Slight jab.

The truth hurts. The more Microsoft acquires for Xbox, the fewer choices gamers will have (the end user will not sense this in any way. To them, it will just be another service they are subscribed to.

We are tossing the word monopoly around derogatively here when there is another term that is much closer to what Jimbo is referring to:

Legal Monopoly​



Examples of Legal Monopolies are: USPS, NFL, and the now renamed, split up, then reemerged AT&T, once called Bell Telephone Company.


ULwxzNn.jpg


This is an extreme case, but someone like Microsoft could monopolize gaming legally.
That's just not right.
There is shit tons of capital going into gaming, and the vast majority of it isn't from Microsoft.
You have hedge funds investing in it.
The Saudi Royal Family. Massive Chinese companies.
The Finnish government.
Sony.
Nintendo.

You then have every second studio executive leaving and setting up their own studios to develop games.
With resources like Unreal Engine and Unity the barrier to entry to develop a games is lower than its ever been.

With regards to game streaming, it was considered a dud buisness move by all the Sony fanboys not long ago. Who wants to play a shitty laggy game over the net? Waste of time.
Then you have Sony using Microsoft's Azure servers for their own streaming service.
You have Netflix starting to stream games.
Amazon streams games.
Apple is going to stream games.
Google set it up but fucked it up with a stupid buisness model.
While Sony was shipping all the PS5 APUs in console form, Microsoft was making the investment of using a percentage of those APUs for the streaming servers, missing out on Xbox console sales by doing it. They sacrificed console sales to invest in it.
You can then hardly call Microsoft predatory for doing that.

All I remember is not long ago a certain fan base was laughing at Gamepass as the death of gaming and it was going to be full of nothing other than indie filler titles. Sony didn't need to follow that as they had the superior buisness model of games played on console. Support the dev as the cry.
Now those same people and the parent company are complaining that Gamepass is going to be a monopoly.
For fucks sake fellas.
 
But EMI didn't make their content exclusive to Sony devices right?

I'm trying to see how thet was a concern for consumers or manufacturers of other music players.

Do you realise Sony are one of the kings of corporate walled gardens in a number of industries? MiniDisc says hi. Various Betamax/CD/DVD/SDDS/MMCD formats say hi. Sony buying Columbia Pictures to get into Hollywood says hi. Playstation 1P says hi.

If you want to talk about monopoly and buyouts have a look at the image sensor business, Sony bought Toshiba out and runs something like 60% of that market now. Also those sensors in cameras, phones, tablets, webcams etc. ActiBliz and Xbox combined don't even approach anything halfway to that number.
 
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yurinka

Member
That's probably it. If Microsoft keeps going after large multiplatform publishers at some point they will be stopped. Whatever Microsoft does with Activision will have an influence on future acquisitions.
Yes, I think that all regulators will allow MS buy ABK because it makes sense and would help them compete against Sony, Nintendo or Tencent to name a few.

And that after that MS will continue acquiring big names until stopped. Something that I expect to happen after several acquisitions if MS becomes or gets market leader (or gets close) in consoles, game subs and cloud gaming and if substantially becomes a top player in mobile and PC.
 

yurinka

Member
Do you realise Sony are one of the kings of corporate walled gardens in a number of industries? MiniDisc says hi. Various Betamax/CD/DVD/SDDS/MMCD formats say hi. Sony buying Columbia Pictures to get into Hollywood says hi. Playstation 1P says hi.

If you want to talk about monopoly and buyouts have a look at the image sensor business, Sony bought Toshiba out and runs something like 60% of that market now. Also those sensors in cameras, phones, tablets, webcams etc. ActiBliz and Xbox combined don't even approach anything halfway to that number.
Mini disk and Betamax were tiny niches on their market. I don't know what even SDDS and MMCD are. CD and DVD weren't Sony things, many more companies were on it and were standards used by everyone.

Columbia and Sony are far from being a monopoly, and same goes with PS1 in consoles or gaming. Sony having 60% market share in image sensor isn't a monopoly, it's being a market leader.

MS+ABK won't be a monopoly, they will even be far from being market leaders in gaming, console gaming, pc gaming, mobile gaming, vr gaming, game subs, eSports and from what they said in the regulator docs, also cloud gaming.
 
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phil_t98

#SonyToo
Mini disk and Betamax were tiny niches on their market. I don't know what even SDDS and MMCD are. CD and DVD weren't Sony things, many more companies were on it and were standards used by everyone.

Columbia and Sony are far from being a monopoly, and same goes with PS1 in consoles or gaming. Sony having 60% market share in image sensor isn't a monopoly, it's being a market leader.

MS+ABK won't be a monopoly, they will even be far from being market leaders in gaming, console gaming, pc gaming, mobile gaming, vr gaming, game subs, eSports and from what they said in the regulator docs, also cloud gaming.


Don’t forget Sony were the main party behind blu ray and delayed the PS3 to win the format war over HD-DVE. Once blu ray was put into PS3 it was always gonna be the winner
 
Mini disk and Betamax were tiny niches on their market. I don't know what even SDDS and MMCD are. CD and DVD weren't Sony things, many more companies were on it and were standards used by everyone.

Columbia and Sony are far from being a monopoly, and same goes with PS1 in consoles or gaming.

You're looking at with the benefit of retrospect, at the time those walled gardens of competing standards are corporate strong-arm tactics and built around royalty or recurring revenue streams.

Just because they're not 100% successful with market dominance does not mean they did not employ such tactics. Sony historically and today are well known for wanting their own standards and to throw a competitor out there to the major player forming e.g. betamax vs VHS, MiniDisc vs the world etc. I'd hazard a guess you're not from that era or never gave it much attention. Shit, Sony even pushed DAT formats harder than the accepted digital cassettes of the time may decades ago. What Sony does with Playstation is Sony 101 still current mantra from back in the 80s and 90s even.

Also, you're off base about Columbia. I said monopoly around the image sensor business through buyouts. Far worse than the current landscape of gaming corporate and geographical diversity being the golden era thus far.
 
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yurinka

Member
You're looking at with the benefit of retrospect, at the time those walled gardens of competing standards are corporate strong-arm tactics and built around royalty or recurring revenue streams.

Just because they're not 100% successful with market dominance does not mean they did not employ such tactics. Sony historically and today are well known for wanting their own standards and to throw a competitor out there to the major player forming e.g. betamax vs VHS, MiniDisc vs the world etc. I'd hazard a guess you're not from that era or never gave it much attention. Shit, Sony even pushed DAT formats harder than the accepted digital cassettes of the time may decades ago. What Sony does with Playstation is Sony 101 still current mantra from back in the 80s and 90s even.
Monopoly means having basically all the market and doing stuff to block competitors from competing. Sony never has been in that position in any market and always have been far from it.

Betamax and Minidisc weren't the standard of their markets and weren't even close to be market leaders, always were tiny niches that competed -and failed- against way more successful standards.

PlayStation as platform doesn't even has half of the console market share so it's far from being on a position to have monopolistic practices. And console isn't even half of the gaming market, Sony has a tiny market share in mobile and PC. Even in console, regarding games as publisher Sony has a small market share. On top of that, unlike MS or Tencent Sony doesn't have money to buy like half of the gaming industry.

Sony, MS or even Tencent aren't in a position to have a monopoly in gaming and they are very far from it, specially MS who isn't a market leader in any gaming market.
 
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Swift_Star

Banned
Operating system on a pc isn’t gaming, office software ain’t gaming either. So why Jim bring it up. He saying Microsoft dominates in other areas, Sony does to. Don’t understand why you don’t get that they are being hypocritical.

He’s bring things that are not in gaming to try and make Microsoft look bad, Sonia has dominated the console market for years. PS1, PS2 ,PS4 and probibly PS5 to
OS is tech industry. Try harder.
gotta be careful around phil , he might get a win over jim ryan

jim-ryan.gif
When did that ever happen?
Don’t forget Sony were the main party behind blu ray and delayed the PS3 to win the format war over HD-DVE. Once blu ray was put into PS3 it was always gonna be the winner
Everyone can use Blu-ray, that’s a standard, not a monopoly.
 

phil_t98

#SonyToo
OS is tech industry. Try harder.

When did that ever happen?

Everyone can use Blu-ray, that’s a standard, not a monopoly.

The PS3 was delayed a year to make sure the blu ray drive went into it, they wanted to win the format war between HD-DVD and blu ray




You say everybody can use blu-ray which shows how little you know. There is a licence fee for using the tech. It’s not just free to use it.
 
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Monopoly means having basically all the market and doing stuff to block competitors from competing. Sony never has been in that position in any market and always have been far from it.

Betamax and Minidisc weren't the standard of their markets and weren't even close to be market leaders, always were tiny niches that competed -and failed- against way more successful standards.

PlayStation as platform doesn't even has half of the console market share so it's far from being on a position to have monopolistic practices. And console isn't even half of the gaming market, Sony has a tiny market share in mobile and PC. Even in console, regarding games as publisher Sony has a small market share. On top of that, unlike MS or Tencent Sony doesn't have money to buy like half of the gaming industry.

Sony, MS or even Tencent aren't in a position to have a monopoly in gaming and they are very far from it, specially MS who isn't a market leader in any gaming market.

Exactly my point. MS buying ActiBliz is all clear, it's not monopolistic in the wider gaming industry. Sony/Jim can cry all they want, it doesn't change facts.

Also, you're nuts if you think Sony in the image sensor business at 60% market share isn't heading into monopolistic territory.
 

Swift_Star

Banned
The PS3 was delayed a year to make sure the blu ray drive went into it, they wanted to win the format war between HD-DVD and blu ray

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You say everybody can use blu-ray which shows how little you know. There is a licence fee for using the tech. It’s not just free to use it.
So? Everyone can use Blu-ray, doesn’t matter. This is like saying Dolby vision is a monopoly because you have to pay a fee to use it. Alternatives exist, you use it if you want too.
 

Swift_Star

Banned
Exactly my point. MS buying ActiBliz is all clear, it's not monopolistic in the wider gaming industry. Sony/Jim can cry all they want, it doesn't change facts.

Also, you're nuts if you think Sony in the image sensor business at 60% market share isn't heading into monopolistic territory.
The fact here is that MS isn’t getting this deal done without severe compromises and I think that is exactly what should be done. Compromise if you want to engane in monopolistic practices.
 

Neo_game

Member
IMO any such big deal should not be allowed. There should be a limit that anything over 10billion $ is not allowed. 10billion $ it self it stupid amount of money. There should also be a limit that once you make a big deal next deal should not be allowed next 5 or 10 years depending on the value.
 
The fact here is that MS isn’t getting this deal done without severe compromises and I think that is exactly what should be done. Compromise if you want to engane in monopolistic practices.

In response...the below exchange 8 pages back has aged very well indeed.

Nah, when you consider behemoths like Tencent, EA, Epic/Fortnite, Sony, Nintendo, Apple, Google, Valve/Steam, PC gaming (amalgamated) and any of the current day major players your complaint is baseless, factually. The current gaming market has more players, more turnover, more devices, more games, more devs, more indies, more marketing and more exposure than ever before. Read that again and let it sink in.

Let me say it another way for effect. 2022 is tipped as gaming being $197Billion in gross turnover. A purchase as large as ActiBliz is considered at least a 10 year play, let us take approx. $200B and multiply for 10 years equating to $2 Trillion. Trillion. $67B from MS for the ActiBliz buyout does not compare nor does it monopolise the industry, period. MS spent approx. 3% of the total gaming for 10 years on this deal. In the same 10 years Sony likely will be spending too, probably more like 1% of the 10 year run.

What are you complaining about exactly? You approve Bungie but want to block ActiBliz. It doesn't add up mate.

Look at my post above. MS/Xbox are in fact helping expand what games gamers play and what games get developed through Gamepass and ID@Xbox, more so than the usual formula of loss lead a console, lock em in and sell em games. They are also enabling more people to play with each other across more devices. Xbox is far more than that, they have no interest in a walled garden anymore, just like Azure. You've learnt nothing about the transformation MS has been through in the last decade. Xbox started this path a few years ago and they're already bearing successful and profitable fruit from the long game. Pretty amazing for the company, devs, gamers and industry really. All major players are having the best years on record ever in gaming. Again, let that sink in.

This will fall on deaf ears because once upon a time before most of GAF was born, MS was in court for anti-trust.
 

GhostOfTsu

Banned
It’s about Jim Ryan saying Microsoft dominate industries and there is an example of Sony doing the same in the music industry. They have been allowed to do it there, not saying Microsoft should be allowed to dominate the industry but Sony are calling Microsoft out in their own practices.

The Activision deal is right to be investigated I agree. So let’s see what the outcome is
Sony doesn't own a music platform like Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, etc.
Same for movies Netflix, Hulu, HBO. They just rent their contents to other companies. Sony is not a threat to anybody there. They are a partner.

You're now arguing about blu ray so I see you totally lost the plot.

lane kiffin roll GIF
 

Warablo

Member
How many publishers have even been for sale? Gaming has grown a lot since the past. Think most companies just dissolved and went under in the old days instead of getting bought out.
 
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That's the thing you don't get: It's not going to become a monopoly NOW but it's on its way to. You stop companies of becoming a monopoly if you see this threat and it's pretty clear the threat exists and that this is MS main objective.

Always Sunny Reaction GIF

The threat from MS sounds pretty silly. How exactly is MS a threat? This is video games. What I can totally imagine is MS raising console and game prices once they have taken the leading spot in the gaming industry. That certainly would be a terrible outcome for gamers. I'm glad no other company would ever do that.
 
Always Sunny Reaction GIF

The threat from MS sounds pretty silly. How exactly is MS a threat? This is video games. What I can totally imagine is MS raising console and game prices once they have taken the leading spot in the gaming industry. That certainly would be a terrible outcome for gamers. I'm glad no other company would ever do that.

MS literally has done that. Raised prices and screwed over its consumers. Multiple times.

Or does reality just not exist in your fanboy world?
 
Another laugh at Jim Ryan's expense is Sony saying that while MS has said they will keep COD on PS, they haven't said they will put it on PS Plus.
What a joke this guy is. Not only should Microsoft put it on the PS, but they should also have to put it on PS Plus.
The fucking balls on that prick.

It's really embarrassing at this point, and while I expect the deal to go through and MS to keep COD on PS for the future, they are going to make MS hate them even more.
Playstation players won't have a hope in hell of any other Activision game ever coming to their console other than COD. No chance any other game from Zenimax ever goes on it either.
 
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You calling OTHER people fanboys. That's IRONY. 😘

Between Xbox fanboys claiming I rep for Nintendo/Sony, Sony fanboys claiming I rep for Xbox/Nintendo, and Nintendo fanboys claiming I rep for Sony/Xbox - you children really need to get together and decide which team I supposedly am on.

Reality is I criticize everyone equally and praise them when I feel they deserve to be praised. Y’know, having varied opinions? I suggest you try that yourself.
 
Sony doesn't own a music platform like Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, etc.
Same for movies Netflix, Hulu, HBO. They just rent their contents to other companies. Sony is not a threat to anybody there. They are a partner.

You're now arguing about blu ray so I see you totally lost the plot.

lane kiffin roll GIF

And then people fail to mention that Sony doesn't own the blu ray disk association.

The "Blu-ray Disc founder group" was started on 20 May 2002 by nine electronic companies: Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung Electronics and Sony.[2] In order to enable more companies to participate, it announced in May 2004 that it would form the Blu-ray Disc Association, which was inaugurated on 4 October 2004.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

It's not like Sony were the only interested parties in this and then established a monopoly.
 

Kagey K

Banned
IMO any such big deal should not be allowed. There should be a limit that anything over 10billion $ is not allowed. 10billion $ it self it stupid amount of money. There should also be a limit that once you make a big deal next deal should not be allowed next 5 or 10 years depending on the value.
Startups are built with prosperity technology in the sole purpose to be sold.

How are you going to try to dicate the basis of all buyouts based on video games?

I hope you do t actually think this is how business works.
 
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