• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

DF: Hogwarts Legacy - DF Tech Review - PS5 vs Xbox Series X/S - 21 Mode Variations Tested

It is and they can. But there isn't a massive difference between the two so most people won't care about the power difference.

I’m not technically minded as such with these things. Pardon my ignorance, last generation with PS4, Xbox One launch . Was the power difference that big there because all I read about was 900p v 1080p.

And what is the benefit of Rdna 2 on Series X ? Because in all honesty I’m not seeing much with this console than the competition doesn’t offer so far.
 
Last edited:

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
There was never a "20% performance advantage" to begin with. You are referring to 18% differencial in the one compute metric. Performance is a GPU's final overall real world throughput and it's tied to multiple GPU components and their related speed besides the software side of things. Teraflops ≠ Performance in itself. We shouldn't continue dismissing PS5's own hardware avatantages including the GPU and CPU if we want to maintain a fair grasp in the reality of the situation.
He said supposed advantage. Which to be fair we have seen in the majority of games by now. It's just that A LOT of times in a lot of big games the advantage disappears and people like Alex just blame it on optimization. Well, the 20% advantage should in theory help with that no? Why is the XSX performing 10-20% WORSE? Thats a 30-40% gap in performance per tflop which makes no sense whatsoever.

The PS5 is definitely doing some amazing things under the hood as we see in some of the recent PC ports of PS4 games ported to PS5, but the game performs like trash on my 3080 with RT turned on which leads me to believe that Alex is more or less correct in saying that the game didnt get much love on the PC and XSX side. Even with RT turned off, my GPU is held back by my CPU in hogwarts and hogsmead similar to what we saw in Gotham Knights.

I think dismissing PS5's advantage is just as ridiculous as dismissing XSX's tflops advantage. They both have their advantages. I remember making this chart way back in 2020 before the consoles came out. It shows that the PS5 has an advantage in several different areas but it also shows an advantage for XSX in RT which we've seen materialize before in Metro Exodus, Control (in photo mode comes to exactly 16%) and Doom Eternal among other titles and yet in some games its completely MIA. We need to account for the possibility that there is something in the XSX design that is holding it back and i dont know if its as simple as poor optimization or Cerny secret sauce. It's a flaw in the XSX.

s0n39Hi.png
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Can't we all just get along lol. Regurgitating posts and games from 2 years ago, all that jazz. We are getting good games and they perform more or less identical....dead space, resi 4, howgwarts. There's been some great games this year already.

I prefer the funny another one gifs and let the developers be actually concerned in how they get their games running.
 

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
I’m not technically minded as such with these things. Pardon my ignorance, last generation with PS4, Xbox One launch . Was the power difference that big there because all I read about was 900p v 1080p.

And what is the benefit of Rdna 2 on Series X ? Because in all honesty I’m not seeing much with this console than the competition doesn’t offer so far.
Not a lot. Amd Gpu's are a bit shit really. Don't move that much forward in the last few years. Yeah they're alright for consoles.
 

Lysandros

Member
What I've mostly noticed is XSX will have a slightly higher resolution with looser frame rate targets, that seems to be the norm.
While i can agree that there more cases of XSX having slightly higher resolutions, this often comes at the cost of FPS and/or Vsync. And what this tell us as to which platform outperforms the other in absolute terms?.. And in my experience there are as much if not more games having the exact same resolution between the machines with essentially identical performance profiles. After that there are also the (less numerous) cases of PS5 having the slightly higher resolutions. In the end the picture is quite complicated with slight back and forths. Also at this point i can only admire the carefree assurance of declaring XSX's GPU more powerful based solely on its 18% higher compute while it's actually slower in GPU front and back end departments by this same percentage compared PS5's besides other parameters. It always seemed to be a very faulty even ignorent methodology to compare those machines to me.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Wasn’t that mentioned a lot last generation with PS4 & Xbox One? 1.8 v 1.2 and the whole resolution thing. 900p etc.

It was. But the difference was much more noticeable between base PS4 and Xbox One. With the advancements in upscaling along with the fact that resolutions are so much higher, I think only those with really massive TVs are going to see any real difference one way or another and then only if the two were running side by side.

Ultimately, we only know about the differences between PS5 and XSX because folks like DF tell us they exist. If I can't tell the difference on my own, why should I even care?
 

Lysandros

Member
Why did Microsoft market it as the most powerful console? Don’t get me wrong I’m not disputing what you say, at the time of launch it was one of the reasons i bought it.
If you paid attention they actually retracted that statement after the PS5 spec reveal (Road to PS5) by changing it to the "most powerful Xbox". I guess because they saw that they were actually behind in quite a few (including GPU) metrics and wanted to avoid legal complications.
 
If you paid attention they actually retracted that statement after the PS5 spec reveal (Road to PS5) by changing it to the "most powerful Xbox". I guess because they saw that they were actually behind in quite a few (including GPU) metrics and wanted to avoid legal complications.

Yet I still see people pushing it. The likes of that odious colteastwood etc. Not that I listen to them but a fair number still do. His recent Dead Space tweets an example.

I own both but looking back I should of spent that Series X money on more software instead , after what has happened these past two years.

They (Microsoft) don’t even market Series X anymore , it’s all about the S. I should of just kept my 1X as Series X just feels like a more capable take on it.
 

Patrick S.

Banned
John is not woke. He's not reviewing the game for personal reasons he already has disclosed but I won't get into out of respect. Alex is a reee poster and has often criticized asian games for not being PC when it comes to lewd depictions of women, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he wasn't reviewing the game because he's woke.
Sorry, but I don’t care about John’s personal reasons. He’s not doing his job, and he’s depriving his viewers of content they want to see. When I’m doing my job, I don’t refuse to do any tasks because of “personal reasons”. No, I just do my fucking job. He should be reprimanded by his bosses.

I really like his DF Retro stuff, and some of his other videos, but man, if he knows he’s too unstable to be on social media, and is borderline suicidal whenever he gets any kind of backlash, he might not be in the right kind of job. At the minimum, he should ignore ANY social media.
 

Lysandros

Member
Wasn’t that mentioned a lot last generation with PS4 & Xbox One? 1.8 v 1.2 and the whole resolution thing. 900p etc.
1.84 TF vs 1.31 TF was only a part of PS4's GPU being clearly more powerful compared to Xbox One's. PS4 also had 88% higher pixel fill rate, 125% more VRAM bandwidth, more ASYNC resources and GPGPU capabilities. It was undoubtedly more powerful as a whole. This isn't even remotely true for the XSX/PS5 situation. This time (leaving I/Os aside) each is slightly ahead depending on the GPU metric (even including the bandwidth side of things) thus i see them as being pretty identical in capability overall.
 
Last edited:

thatJohann

Member
Been playing on PS5 on Balanced mode 40fps / 120Hz on a C1 OLED. It’s pretty sometimes. Other times it’s meh. The added responsiveness of the 120Hz modes makes it worth the loss of resolution and foliage over Fidelity 30fps.
 
Sorry, but I don’t care about John’s personal reasons. He’s not doing his job, and he’s depriving his viewers of content they want to see.
You're mostly right about it not being a good look professionally but your statement was that he didn't review the game because he was woke which was factually wrong. On top of that this isn't news for DF, DF members pick what games they want to review and they have commonly passed on games in the past because they didn't want to review them due not liking the game etc.

This is why Alex and Oliver joining the team was such a big deal because it increases the chance of somebody reviewing a game. This is also why DF retro can exist in the state of does, it's because John doesn't enjoy reviewing modern games as much as retro content so the less of it he does the more retro content he can do.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
PS5 version is also pretty damn unstable. Especially in the castle there's a lot of stuttering, the open world seems more stable. It's not as major as the Xbox versions, but very noticeable.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
i have the PS5 Version and i have always loadings times when i exit the castle

If you run there from somewhere else in the castle, yeah, it will typically show those spinners for a few seconds. At least there's no actual load screen like on XSX.
 

Fredrik

Member
We need to account for the possibility that there is something in the XSX design that is holding it back and i dont know if its as simple as poor optimization or Cerny secret sauce. It's a flaw in the XSX.
I think it’s as simple as Mark Cerny said in his pre-launch talk that seemed like damage control at the time. It’s just incredibly difficult to max out a system and feed all CUs with something to do.
 

Tripolygon

Banned
I think it’s as simple as Mark Cerny said in his pre-launch talk that seemed like damage control at the time. It’s just incredibly difficult to max out a system and feed all CUs with something to do.
Plus It is not even that hard a concept to grasp. Parallelization is difficult as not all jobs are identical so it'll take varying about of times to complete. And how do you break the job down and schedule them efficiently. Even games that people say is CPU bound is not at all maxing out the CPU, it is maxing out the game engines ability to utilize the CPU. GPUs have thousands of cores, imagine how much harder that is.
 
Sorry, but I don’t care about John’s personal reasons. He’s not doing his job, and he’s depriving his viewers of content they want to see. When I’m doing my job, I don’t refuse to do any tasks because of “personal reasons”. No, I just do my fucking job. He should be reprimanded by his bosses.
Fully agree. If people in most jobs just decided they'd skip parts of their paid duties that they didn't want to do because reasons, how long would they keep said job? Especially when they throw a big tantrum when questioned about it. Dude doesn't appreciate how lucky he is, yet still acts entitled as fuck.
 
Last edited:

Tripolygon

Banned
Fully agree. If people in most jobs just decided they'd skip parts of their paid duties that they didn't want to do because reasons, how long would they keep said job?
1. Nobody is skipping their paid duties. Each person gets assigned a task, John was PSVR2, Alex Returnal, Olie Metroid, Rich Hogwarts who was then asked by WB to hold off until a patch.

2. Nobody here is owed a review of a game. We are not paying them to do reviews and definitely not for every game. Even their patreon supporters do not get to dictate what they do.
Especially when they throw a big tantrum when questioned about it. Dude doesn't appreciate how lucky he is, yet still acts entitled as fuck.
3. Ironic. Complaining about the belligerent and entitled attitude of people is not a temper tantrum nor entitled. He isn't lucky, he has been doing this forever professionally as a Job.
 

Nydius

Member
PS5 version is also pretty damn unstable. Especially in the castle there's a lot of stuttering, the open world seems more stable. It's not as major as the Xbox versions, but very noticeable.
I find it's particularly bad where there's a lot of shiny, quasi-reflective marble styled sufaces. Really stuttery in lower areas of the astronomy tower and around the defense against the dark arts classroom. But flatter areas like the greenhouses? No problem at all. There's one narrow hallway -- I think it's also in the astronomy tower -- with rows of suits of armor and a cat in an alcove and that tower stutters like hell. Sometimes on XSX it would almost become slideshow-ish until it properly rendered.
 

Patrick S.

Banned
Fully agree. If people in most jobs just decided they'd skip parts of their paid duties that they didn't want to do because reasons, how long would they keep said job? Especially when they throw a big tantrum when questioned about it. Dude doesn't appreciate how lucky he is, yet still acts entitled as fuck.
Yeah. Well, to be fair, they seem to have a policy of "you only have to review what you feel like reviewing". I would imagine it's something like "Here's a game I want a video on, who wants do it?", and then they agree on who does the video.

I guess, Richard could have ORDERED one of his reviewers to produce the analysis, but instead he was graceful and just did it himself to avoid drama and resentment from his gentle reviewer flowers.

In the end, DF delivered. But the Kindergarten happening there is annoying.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
For what it’s worth, I’ve been playing the PS5 version for awhile today and the difference is substantial at least in performance mode, runs like a dream inside Hogwarts from what I’ve seen so far.

I played the Balanced mode on PS5. Outside of some one-off moments, it felt like a very good locked 40. With the higher fidelity and foliage draw distance of the Fidelity mode, I'd say that is the best way to play the game on console at the moment.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
For what it’s worth, I’ve been playing the PS5 version for awhile today and the difference is substantial at least in performance mode, runs like a dream inside Hogwarts from what I’ve seen so far.

It does? Not on my PS5. When moving between parts of the castle, between different floors, etc, there's a lot of stuttering. In between those stutters it's pretty smooth, but I wouldn't call it a "dream".
 

Elios83

Member
It does? Not on my PS5. When moving between parts of the castle, between different floors, etc, there's a lot of stuttering. In between those stutters it's pretty smooth, but I wouldn't call it a "dream".
Are you using uncapped frame rate? Because imo it makes things worse.
Balanced with capped frame rate (fixed 40 fps target) feels pretty good to me on PS5.

Btw both PS5 and Series X have had similar results in most games, differences have been so small that even hardcore gamers don't give a fuck. Probably the worst timeline for DF and the likes but it is what it is, basically equivalent hardwares with their own twists.
 
Last edited:

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Are you using uncapped frame rate? Because imo it makes things worse.
Balanced with capped frame rate (fixed 40 fps target) feels pretty good to me on PS5.

Btw both PS5 and Series X have had similar results in most games, differences have been so small that even hardcore gamers don't give a fuck. Probably the worst timeline for DF and the likes but it is what it is, basically equivalent hardwares with their own twists.

No, just the regular performance mode. My TV doesn't do 120hz or VRR.
 

Ducktail

Member
Sorry, but I don’t care about John’s personal reasons. He’s not doing his job, and he’s depriving his viewers of content they want to see. When I’m doing my job, I don’t refuse to do any tasks because of “personal reasons”. No, I just do my fucking job. He should be reprimanded by his bosses.

I really like his DF Retro stuff, and some of his other videos, but man, if he knows he’s too unstable to be on social media, and is borderline suicidal whenever he gets any kind of backlash, he might not be in the right kind of job. At the minimum, he should ignore ANY social media.

Entitlement: the post.
 
Last edited:

Gobjuduck

Banned
Xbox and PC just got performance improvements in a recent update. This review was made before that patch maybe?

PS5 got optimization priority because of the marketing deal. We’ve seen this before.

Deadspace had better performance and resolutions on series x. Game didn’t have exclusive content or marketing.

Not many games have been a good test of the consoles’ power and speed. Control was a good test of the consoles power, and Xbox had the advantage.
 
Last edited:

Mr Moose

Member
Xbox and PC just got performance improvements in a recent update. This review was made before that patch.

PS5 got optimization priority because of the marketing deal. We’ve seen this before.

Deadspace had better performance and resolutions on series x. Game didn’t have exclusive content or marketing.
It was the latest patch. Day one was 1.3, now it's 1.4, it says it in the first few seconds.
Deadspace had the same resolution.
 
Last edited:

Gobjuduck

Banned
It was the latest patch. Day one was 1.3, now it's 1.4, it says it in the first few seconds.
Needs more optimizing then. Runs pretty poorly on PC too.

Same with Callisto protocol. Ran worse on Xbox and was a mess on PC. Turns out that game had 150 sony developers work on it.

Optimization can easily prioritize a platform. Especially if the hardware is this close.
Deadspace had the same resolution.
iNOLx9I.jpg
 
Last edited:

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
It was the latest patch. Day one was 1.3, now it's 1.4, it says it in the first few seconds.
Deadspace had the same resolution.

There's a bit of a difference in performance mode, not too big. The less drops are more notable than the miniscule difference in pixel count.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Needs more optimizing then. Runs pretty poorly on PC too.

iNOLx9I.jpg
I don't listen to pixel counts from someone who has been wrong a lot before. He didn't even spot the dynamic resolution.


PS5 and Xbox Series X in quality mode (performance mode disabled) use a dynamic resolution with the highest rendering resolution found being 2259x1270 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 2204x1240. PS5 and Xbox Series X seem to often render at 2259x1270 in quality mode. PS5 and Xbox Series X in quality mode use FSR 2 to reconstruct a 3840x2160 resolution.

Xbox Series S uses a dynamic resolution with the highest rendering resolution found being 1600x900 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 1280x720. Xbox Series S seems to often render at 1600x900. Xbox Series S uses FSR 2 to reconstruct a 2400x1350 resolution.

PS5 and Xbox Series X in performance mode use a dynamic resolution with the highest rendering resolution found being 1706x960 and the lowest resolution found being 1422x800. PS5 and Xbox Series X seem to often render at 1706x960 in performance mode. PS5 and Xbox Series X in performance mode use FSR 2 to reconstruct a 2560x1440 resolution.

Him:


Dying Light 2 is not 864p on Xbox One, it's 720p.
 
Last edited:

FunkMiller

Member
I'm really enjoying this game on XSX. I'm sure I;d really enjoy it on Ps5.

Because, when you get right down to it, there's so fucking little difference between the two in practical gameplay and visual terms that it's a massive waste of time trying to prove one is better than the other.

But it definitely sucks on XSS.
 
Last edited:

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Can't we all just get along lol. Regurgitating posts and games from 2 years ago, all that jazz. We are getting good games and they perform more or less identical....dead space, resi 4, howgwarts. There's been some great games this year already.

I prefer the funny another one gifs and let the developers be actually concerned in how they get their games running.
DdZoR5A.jpg
 

Gobjuduck

Banned
I don't listen to pixel counts from someone who has been wrong a lot before. He didn't even spot the dynamic resolution.
Ok?

Anyway, dead space isn’t the only recent game that has Xbox showing a slight advantage.

Just comes to optimization. Seems like hogwarts is optimized in favor of PS5. We’ve seen this on the other side. Cyberpunk 2077 ran/runs better on series x and that game had Xbox marketing.
 
Last edited:

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Nah, this is a tech thread about two different versions of the game. The PS5/XSX speculation thread lasted nearly 3 years on assumptions and speculations alone. Now that we have hard data, of course we need to revisit old arguments from that thread which was very contentious with a lot of very angry posters just dismissing the PS5 every chance they got.

This is like saying lets only discuss the game for 3 years BEFORE it comes out, and once we all actually play it, lets all sing kumbaya and suck each others dicks instead of discussing the game. no thank you.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Nah, this is a tech thread about two different versions of the game. The PS5/XSX speculation thread lasted nearly 3 years on assumptions and speculations alone. Now that we have hard data, of course we need to revisit old arguments from that thread which was very contentious with a lot of very angry posters just dismissing the PS5 every chance they got.

This is like saying lets only discuss the game for 3 years BEFORE it comes out, and once we all actually play it, lets all sing kumbaya and suck each others dicks instead of discussing the game. no thank you.
Yeah, mine was a joke post anyway. I don't mind either scenarios to be honest. Even if we don't discuss it, PS5 supporters have been vindicated by these results, so I'm fine either way.

I agree that there was a lot of unfair FUD against the PS5 pre-launch, and the expectations was that PS5 will limp along badly once the first DF comparison video would drop. Then the narrative changed to tools -- that PS5 is doomed as soon as devs get familiar with the new GDK and the "exclusive full RDNA 2" features.
And last week, Digital Foundry noted that they still haven't seen any game that uses SFS.

It's all just a moo point now.

I stand by what I said 2 years ago. While both PS5 and XSX are amazing consoles, PS5 is just outright superb and has no competition. At $399, it matches and often beats a $499 XSX, comes with a feature-rich DualSense, and even allows for VR gaming.
 

Arioco

Member
Ok?

Anyway, dead space isn’t the only recent game that has Xbox showing a slight advantage.

Just comes to optimization. Seems like hogwarts is optimized in favor of PS5. We’ve seen this on the other side. Cyberpunk 2077 ran/runs better on series x and that game had Xbox marketing.


And Hogwarts Legacy isn't the only recent game that performs better on PS5. In the past few months we've seen Monster Hunter Rise, The Callisto Protocol, Call of Duty Warzone 2.0.... 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Gobjuduck

Banned
And Hogwarts Legacy isn't the only recent game that performs better on PS5.
Fair point. It is a mixed bag.

Monster Hunter Rise, The Callisto Protocol, Call of Duty Warzone 2.0.... 🤷🏻‍♂️
Callisto protocol had 150 Sony devs, so they better optimized ps through experience. Monster hunter rise is RE Engine which historically performs best on PlayStation, probably because of ps4s dominance last gen. CoD has Sony marketing, could also just be the faster ssd.
 

ProtoByte

Member
That quality without RT mode resolution is low. Game should be running at 4K native on both consoles.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom