Guilty_AI
Member
Playing and following the good games, instead of crying about how Big Corp™ putting out ultra-marketed generic dumbed down game number 1247 is making too much dumbed down and generic games.
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What's influencing bad game development right now? Is it still Covid or is it work from home? Or something else?
- Thread starter Spyxos
- Start date
T4keD0wN
Member
Consumers and capitalism are to blame. And in this case (i cant believe i am even typing this) its actually the consumers who are the main problem.
If someone game me money for my products before i even finished them id gladly serve him half of an unfinished game too and id slowly sell him the rest as dlc. Thats exactly what theyve paid for and they deserve it at that point.
If someone game me money for my products before i even finished them id gladly serve him half of an unfinished game too and id slowly sell him the rest as dlc. Thats exactly what theyve paid for and they deserve it at that point.
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MiguelItUp
Member
Usually always that, with a dash of mismanagement, miscommunication, etc. It usually has nothing to do with working from home, as plenty of successful projects were done strictly from home. AAA and indie. Nor does it have anything to do with some "woke agenda" or forced diversity hiring. Do some studios practice that? I'm sure. But as far as I know, that number is much smaller than many may think. Especially in the realm of AAA (or adjacent) studios. Hell, a lot of the studios in question still crunch, so that's not an excuse either. A lot of AAA studios still crunch because it's so ingrained in the culture of video game development. That can't just simply disappear unless a bunch of studios were to change their workflow... Which they won't do so easily.
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Same management that was there for Witcher 3?This
Best case scenario is cyberpunk 2077. The upper management are clueless and only after profit. They will push the game faster in hopes of raking those money.
Fuz
Banned
I like you.
This is an overarching problem that has roots and ties with all the other problems.
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TheBROgamer
Banned
ChorizoPicozo
Banned
interesting.
going to the GYM and lifting weights is not complicated....but is hard.
lifting a rocket ship...is just physics. overcoming gravity with enough force....of course, is not easy.
My hypothesis in game development is that people in charge of production management (Critical Path, Gannt Diagram) and all those techniques for project programming are not familiar in a fundamental (in the trenches kind of way) with Videogame making.
and because of that, time estimations of tasks/event is out of wack. compounded with the iterative nature of game dev in which problems could arise in latet stages of development...i mean; it's just chaos.
You guys are really blaming the "woke" agenda for publishers releasing games too early and forcing everyone to put engagement/financial incentives into games and genres they don't belong in?
Lol. Embarrassing. This is how companies and governments always get away with things. Do yall not know history? You really don't see how absurd and common it is for people to blame "minorities".
Lol. Embarrassing. This is how companies and governments always get away with things. Do yall not know history? You really don't see how absurd and common it is for people to blame "minorities".
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gaming_again
Member
Do you not work in a corporate environment? It’s eating up all productivity and time and energy everywhere else, why should games be any different?
I'd argue such projects never existed in AAA space.
avin
Member
No, or at least, not really or precisely. Instead, I think gaming today is a victim of its own success.
avin
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Naked Lunch
Member
All the best game development talent retired from the industry a long, long time ago.
The new devs grew up playing Minecraft and think Fortnite is the standard.
The new devs grew up playing Minecraft and think Fortnite is the standard.
It's the combination of all that plus the best developers seem aren't interested in this industry, they aren't feared from quitting cause they know themselves are needed and because of that they don't really care, the indie business also doesn't fit with them, it's a dead end for everyone.
DirtyBast8rd
Member
What influences current game development is bad decisions, lack of creativity and don't give a shit about the consumer behavior.
KimDongHwan
Member
I would love to hear from an actual dev working on some of this big companies, what are their thoughts on what is happening internally.
squarealex
Member
Blue Hair people
simpatico
Member
It's really this. A cancer to any profit driven business organization. You can't eat your ESG score. Hire based only on merit and crunch when the work needs to get done. Every industry has periods of intense overtime. Game makers aren't some special species who should be exempt from it.
Massive talent shortage. Experienced supervisors in their late 30's dont want to deal with chaotic projects and shit pay, dragging a huge team of amateurs to scrape something over the line. Anyone good at any of the specialisms within game development can double their salary in another industry.
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HazukiSensei
Banned
Yeah the people saying woke agenda and race are being insane...essentially implying only white people and asians make good games or have talent to be in the industry..
A wildy racist take for no reason and has no context here...
It's capitalism rearing its gead into the industry, and bad trends/priorities that dont help either. The gamers themselves are largely to blame...
Wheb you go crazy on devs that didnt charge us microtransactions and were ambitious as all hell like CDPR, or Naughty Dog with TLOU 2. But then act like Ubisoft, bethesda and FROM(they tend towards formulaics and unambitious tech) can do no wrong...then were setting a bad precedent in terms of encouraging hardware pushing ambitious titles.
simpatico
Member
I'd also like to see more power given to individuals. The artistic types rather than office managers. All the great games come from one man's vision. GTA, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, Dark Souls etc. You can't make legit art by committee. I know the office managers get all nervous about such things, but they have to get out of the way and let visionary creators create.
Barakov
Member
HazukiSensei
Banned
Not even about just being finished...like I had no problem with cyberpunk for example because the juice and ambition was there. I'll take some bugs with ambition and creativity over streamlined commercialized and smooth.
I have an issue with the fortnites, CoD, ubisofts and bethesda(recent) acceptance etc those are the definition of churning out procedurally unambitious, formulaic titles for a profit.
T4keD0wN
Member
Companies chasing whatever is the safest bet at making them maximum amount of money because theyre investing a lot of money and time into projects. Appeasing shareholders doesnt completely kill creativity, but it can limit it.
I wish there was more creativity in the AAA space, but i fully understand why there isnt. Those saying its because of some weird agenda are about as out of touch as those execs who are trying to appeal to young people by thinking they want something like forspoken or saints row, they come across as the guy from hello fellow kids meme.
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It's like less than the number of times you swap your discreet gpu from pc, totally unjustifiable purchase, and it's not personal or" it's my money I could do whatever I want", it's literally the number of exclusives less than the times Jensen Hwang step on the conference.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
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DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Are “diversity hires” really a thing? I’m a software engineer in a different field (healthcare) and lol believe me there’s no need for diversity hiring. It’s probably 50% Asian and about 50% immigrants.
I wonder if the gaming industry just attracts all the wacko activist types.
I wonder if the gaming industry just attracts all the wacko activist types.
There not blaming minorities there blaming the activist HR teams. Who care more about people who fit a certain identity than whether or not there right for the position. There not in anyway saying that the reason the hires are unqualified is because of there race.
Hestar69
Member
that gamesradar article is CRINGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...
I'm happy redfall is doing so bad with shit people like that working on teh game.
OT:
Wokeness for sure has played a part. Instead of hiring the RIGHT person it's hiring someone who isnt WHITE.
Then you add in how almost every game has to have a season pass or battle pass even if it's a single player game.
Just look at blizzard with diablo 4.
Buy the game for 70 and hey! buy the pass too! give us more of your money for stuff that should be free! but hey! give us another 10 please!
also every AAA game has to be open world for some reason even when some SHOULDN'T.
DemonGamerTTT
Member
What retarded take is this?
How the fuck working from home is to blame for anything?
We are in 2023 and those people still more tech illiterate than 80/90s moms who called all videogames "Nintendo" and believed that it was bad for the vision.
How the fuck working from home is to blame for anything?
We are in 2023 and those people still more tech illiterate than 80/90s moms who called all videogames "Nintendo" and believed that it was bad for the vision.
So in other words you are blaming hr...for hiring minorities.
Like I said, this is actually a common diversion tactic by the rich and government and people fall for it hook line and sinker. Literally just blame everything on minorities.
It's nonsense. Most of the minority hires in video games arent even on the systems or technical side. Which is why blaming them or hr is stupid. These are fields where they struggle to get enough people period. And you look at any credits, it's full of white or asian males. It's rather silly to blame "woke" culture on the current state of video games. Like I already said, games are in the state they are in today because companies control the technical aspects (releasing games unfinished and updating them later) and the creative side (only accepting pitches with clear monetization/engagement potential). And pretty much every bad decision or bad game can be traced to those things
Mr.ODST
Member
A multitude of things, I seen a few influencers get jobs at game companies in positions of producer and community manager OVER people who have spent their entire careers in video games professionally (development), this must take a hit and ive seen some rumours that some Community Managers passing their own feedback to development teams over what their fans want because they think they know best.
Shits_McGiggles
Member
Looking at the bigger picture, it’s quite interesting to realize just how little we know about the inner workings of the industry. Sure, we hear about crunch, and some very surface level grievances, but we never hear anyone talk about the evolution of games development in any form of nuance, we never hear about how office dynamics/office politics have changed. Sometimes we hear about insane employees, but often the insane employees are the ones who out themselves on social media, completely convinced that they were in the right (I.e. Sam Maggs literally screaming in the Insomniac office to get her way).
We can only guess as to why things are the way they are, and I personally think that the industry has experienced a serious brain drain over the years, with no amount of advancements in technology able to adequately replace the talent that has been permanently lost.
We can only guess as to why things are the way they are, and I personally think that the industry has experienced a serious brain drain over the years, with no amount of advancements in technology able to adequately replace the talent that has been permanently lost.
Guilty_AI
Member
Asians aren't 'diverse enough' apparently.
Hero of Spielberg
Member
When I left my last digital agency job back in 2018 it was already a massive problem. We were basically understaffed because management refused to hire any more males and we couldn't;t attract any women because the area our office was in wasnp;t 'desirable' enough for female candidates. So the ones we ended up recruiting were absolute bottom of the barrel talent-wise and knew they didn't have to do shit because they were essentially untouchable. Bad for moral too when you've got a core team of geeks doing the heavy lifting being let down by clock watchers who bring nothing to the business beside ticking a diversity box.
Jinzo Prime
Gold Member
Wait, we're letting diversity hires run nuclear power plants now?
xBlueStonex
Member
I've said it since the beginning of the pandemic - projects that require lots of teamwork and collaboration will suffer greatly from remote work. The last year or so of awful/unfinished game releases have proved my point, and will continue to do so.
To contrast, just look at the games being pumped out from the East. Just banger after banger, and I think it's entirely because Japan has mostly returned to the office. It's time the west does the same.
To contrast, just look at the games being pumped out from the East. Just banger after banger, and I think it's entirely because Japan has mostly returned to the office. It's time the west does the same.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This. I heard Facebook, salesforce, twitter and other big firms were paying people with just 2-3 years of experience $400k with massive signing bonuses during the covid boom.
Sorry Im confused Why is it you feel so confident in telling others "what there really saying"? What motivates you to go with the worst possible interpretation? It make conversations around this subject very difficult when others refuse to give you any benefit of the doubt.
I was clearly blaming HR for not hiring always based on merit. Im not saying this because there hiring minorites and I nor anyone else said that. To be clear when I see a minority on dev teams i never assume that there some diversity hire. Thats not whats happening here.
Whats happening is a cult ideology has warped the minds of many proffessionals covering a whole host industries and this ideology has zero interest in quality they only care about "being on the right side of history". There goals are pure but unfortunatly they think thats all that matters.
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Buggy Loop
Member
Now, let's remember the team that made the biggest wake in the industry :
I hate going there, like i love women, i have 2 daughters that i would give everything to.
Maybe we just don't think the same? Spatial orientation being a key aspect of 3D game design?
Also maybe if managers would not ask the male devs to step aside for a women exclusive photo for their PR, you would focus more on making your game, shut your mouth and let the sales speak for themselves? Maybe stop putting diversity on the front page of all your identity as a studio? Was a lot of those female devs hired for quota filling rather than talent?
Yoboman
Member
MS will lose a lot of the talent they hired
We know MS enforces six month contractors wherever they can (ask 343). They have also eliminated revenue based incentive bonuses, so the people at 343 are potentially making less money.
What's the incentive to make the best product when buying is irrelevant and bonus structures are gone? If people don't leave then they just won't care enough or will be replaced by contractors with no ties to the vision of the game being made
Plus the upper middle management who actually got paid from the acquisition have already made out like bandits. There is no point in some of them caring now
We know MS enforces six month contractors wherever they can (ask 343). They have also eliminated revenue based incentive bonuses, so the people at 343 are potentially making less money.
What's the incentive to make the best product when buying is irrelevant and bonus structures are gone? If people don't leave then they just won't care enough or will be replaced by contractors with no ties to the vision of the game being made
Plus the upper middle management who actually got paid from the acquisition have already made out like bandits. There is no point in some of them caring now
