Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Because you still have to walk to the POI on planets
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Because you still have to walk to the POI on planets
Shubh_C63
Member
It pisses me off everytime I walk into a new place, opens the first door and there is some random event going on (like bodyguards threatening someone, Thief getting caught etc). This TRICK of introducing new characters or the vibe of the new place got old after the third time.
Learn new narrative tricks RPG WRITERS.
And I am only 15h in.
Learn new narrative tricks RPG WRITERS.
And I am only 15h in.
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
Nah. Hard disagree. I personally enjoy the dialogue in this game. I typically skip alot of dialogue when rocking RPG's. This is probably the first time I actually listen to NPC's. I get there are some who won't like it but, this is pretty huge for me. It's never really happened before. Different strokes and all, I guess...
Loading screens, shitty UI to control fast travel, walking on planets is awful.
hyperbertha
Member
I mean, that's kinda bethesda's thing. They're a one trick pony. It's all about exploration within a massive scope.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Writing is not skipping worthy in Bethesda games.
NPCs say short, to the point sentences. It's not a story focused game trying to paint a narrative. Mostly it's to set you off on a quest. Game usually take help of environmental storytelling after that.
Sometimes NPCs do drop a gem or two so worth hearing.
BigLee74
Member
Planet exploration is a chore when you can only walk. How about some proper rocket jetpacking, or a nice big Mako!
I am pretty sure these things will be patched in over the coming year.
At least look at the actual time of the ban then cry a river.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Or maybe the most voted review gets the pick! Or the staff choose according to what they think is the best review while giving their reason publicly.
In a space exploration game, they really made exploring dull and boring. I hope it's patched, a no mans sky redemption would be great.
DaGwaphics
Member
The dialog is very video gamey, it is what it is. Most of the games held up as having excellent narratives are also extremely cringe worthy. Don't think I've ever played a game where I was really excited to hear what each character would say next. LOL
Move the plot along and lets go.
Move the plot along and lets go.
Grildon Tundy
Member
Yep, this is what I meant by : "the one that gets the most positive reactions after X days". Meaning reaction emojis (likes, praise the suns, treasures, fires, etc.)
Edit: oh, and if it's a user who sucks that leaves a triggered or empathy emoji, then that counts as a "like" lol
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DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
With Sarah I feel like every time I talk to her I’m presented with a bunch of equally dumb dialog options. And no matter which one I choose, Sarah scowls and corrects me.
Grildon Tundy
Member
Sarah was a poor first-companion for me. Something about her, man. Even when she agrees with me, she has a way of being difficult about it. It's incredible, really.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Thaedolus
Member
Easily the biggest disappointment of the year for me....I keep finding myself going back to the other games you mentioned: BG3 and Cyberpunk 2.0. Haven't touched Starfield in over a week, and don't see a really compelling reason to go back. I saw someone made some sort of automated mining operation and I thought: cool, if I wanted to play Factorio, I'd play that. I'm coming to a Bethesda RPG to feel immersed in the world, and it's anything but that for all the reasons mentioned here.
ReBurn
Gold Member
The whole thing feels dystopian to me, which is why I assume so many of the outcomes run counter to what you would expect from our current culture. The problem is that they overdid it to the point where it comes off as cliche too often. I really like the game. But yeah, the writing isn't consistent.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Recently, Wasteland 3 comes to mind. I was always excited to see what type of scenario I will get into next.
But yes, truly well written games that come close to good TV shows and books are few and far between.
My guess as to why:
Old tired devs who got comfortable with success and refused to improve and innovate themselves.
Played it for a while and it just feel old. Nice looking, but old. Heck just the conversation system feel worse than Skyrim, with it's locked first person camera and character staring right into my soul!
Bethesda seniority need to be replayed, as they are not willing to change.
Old tired devs who got comfortable with success and refused to improve and innovate themselves.
Played it for a while and it just feel old. Nice looking, but old. Heck just the conversation system feel worse than Skyrim, with it's locked first person camera and character staring right into my soul!
Bethesda seniority need to be replayed, as they are not willing to change.
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ZehDon
Gold Member
In a world where RPGs like Holy Magic Century (no story), FFXIII (endless bullshit), and Ephemeral Phantasia (WTF?) exists, I'd find it hard to declare Starfield as one of the worst written of all time. Heck, it's not even Bethesda's worst written RPG; Fallout 4 isn't very good at all.
Personally, I find Starfield's particular brand of sanitised sci-fi kind of a nice break from the drudgery of the storytelling I feel submerged in these days. Instead of an endless stream of ham-fisted one-note social commentary (read: west coast American leftist ideology) or clueless wanna-bes trying to make "universal statements about the human condition" and instead just making misery porn, Starfield smooshes together pulp sci-fi with its NASA-punk grounding into something else entirely. It checks a lot of bullshit at the door, and instead of trying to setup real world metaphors and analogies to "say something", it really just tries to straight up entertain. Given the modern landscape of storytelling, I find its approach a welcome and refreshing change of pace. Strangely, I liken the world's tone and atmosphere to that of Bungie's Halo trilogy and vanilla Destiny 1. It captures a sense of scale and wonder that few games can. Despite the endless nightmares that the world seemingly presents, we're allowed to observe it through a perspective of awe, and, dare I say, hope. This is a combination of the writing, which never get dark and gritty, and the musical score serving as its underscore. From that perspective, I've found a lot of the side content to be pretty entertaining. They're simple stories, true, but I don't really consider that a negative given the game's context.
In terms of companions, this is Bethesda's second attempt at romanceable companions, and its fair criticism that they lack, well, romance. You don't need sex or lust to sell romance, you just need a human connection, and Bethesda's writers clearly struggle with that. I don't hate any of the characters so far, but putting it up against the companions in, say, Cyberpunk 2077, and the gulf is as wide as the solar system. No one's going to bat for Sarah the same way they'll go to bat for Panam. Hopefully Bethesda work on it and take the feedback on board.
As for their being too many women in positions of power, or too many unlikebale women, I don't really see that pattern myself. I find the characters in Starfield to land across the spectrum; men and women can both be enjoyable and terrible, funny and annoying. Science fiction has a long, storied tradition of putting female characters front and centre, perhaps the pattern you're seeing in simply the writers emulating the stories they used as inspiration? For me, I don't find there to be anything particularly bad enough to be noteworthy; Starfield doesn't have the best written characters in the industry, but it's not actively offensive or repulsive. I've found myself chuckling, rolling my eyes, and smiling; that's more than can be said for a few RPGs were the only emotions they illicit were boredom and frustration.
What draws me in to Starfield, I suppose, is the writing serving its purpose to stimulate the imagination. I can imagine myself in the game's disconnected stories, travelling the systems, exploring, and adventuring. I've always been a bit of a dreamer, and Starfield scratches that itch better than a lot of RPGs I've played. While it would've been better if the characters I met along the way were perhaps more memorable or well rounded, I'm happy enough with what's there to continue trekking across the stars, seeing what else lies in store. I suppose it's not for everyone.
Personally, I find Starfield's particular brand of sanitised sci-fi kind of a nice break from the drudgery of the storytelling I feel submerged in these days. Instead of an endless stream of ham-fisted one-note social commentary (read: west coast American leftist ideology) or clueless wanna-bes trying to make "universal statements about the human condition" and instead just making misery porn, Starfield smooshes together pulp sci-fi with its NASA-punk grounding into something else entirely. It checks a lot of bullshit at the door, and instead of trying to setup real world metaphors and analogies to "say something", it really just tries to straight up entertain. Given the modern landscape of storytelling, I find its approach a welcome and refreshing change of pace. Strangely, I liken the world's tone and atmosphere to that of Bungie's Halo trilogy and vanilla Destiny 1. It captures a sense of scale and wonder that few games can. Despite the endless nightmares that the world seemingly presents, we're allowed to observe it through a perspective of awe, and, dare I say, hope. This is a combination of the writing, which never get dark and gritty, and the musical score serving as its underscore. From that perspective, I've found a lot of the side content to be pretty entertaining. They're simple stories, true, but I don't really consider that a negative given the game's context.
In terms of companions, this is Bethesda's second attempt at romanceable companions, and its fair criticism that they lack, well, romance. You don't need sex or lust to sell romance, you just need a human connection, and Bethesda's writers clearly struggle with that. I don't hate any of the characters so far, but putting it up against the companions in, say, Cyberpunk 2077, and the gulf is as wide as the solar system. No one's going to bat for Sarah the same way they'll go to bat for Panam. Hopefully Bethesda work on it and take the feedback on board.
As for their being too many women in positions of power, or too many unlikebale women, I don't really see that pattern myself. I find the characters in Starfield to land across the spectrum; men and women can both be enjoyable and terrible, funny and annoying. Science fiction has a long, storied tradition of putting female characters front and centre, perhaps the pattern you're seeing in simply the writers emulating the stories they used as inspiration? For me, I don't find there to be anything particularly bad enough to be noteworthy; Starfield doesn't have the best written characters in the industry, but it's not actively offensive or repulsive. I've found myself chuckling, rolling my eyes, and smiling; that's more than can be said for a few RPGs were the only emotions they illicit were boredom and frustration.
What draws me in to Starfield, I suppose, is the writing serving its purpose to stimulate the imagination. I can imagine myself in the game's disconnected stories, travelling the systems, exploring, and adventuring. I've always been a bit of a dreamer, and Starfield scratches that itch better than a lot of RPGs I've played. While it would've been better if the characters I met along the way were perhaps more memorable or well rounded, I'm happy enough with what's there to continue trekking across the stars, seeing what else lies in store. I suppose it's not for everyone.
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The opposite of this "west Coast American leftist ideology" (which, roflcopter - okay) isn't "bland, one-note storytelling." We just had a narrative heavy RPG come out that somehow managed to tell effective stories without relying on this political bias you think is just inescapable in gaming (it isn't).
. . .I'm just floored that anyone can look at what SF did with ANY of its stories and not come to the same conclusion "Cohhcarnage" did (and summed up well): "This is highscool sci-fi written by someone who thinks they're doing Asimov." Paraphrasing of course.
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vaibhavpisal
Member
Well said.
A different perspective and I can agree to it as well.
Game is vast and you can take away many different things from it.
March Climber
Member
I had a feeling part of your rant in the OP would come down to Sarah being one of the biggest problems.
As a warning to all who play this game, please, please, please, don't immediately choose Sarah to stay with you as a companion when given the option. Do the mission with her that she wants to do together at the beginning, then drop her off back home at the Lodge. I know it's tempting, but she will annoy the crap out of you over time, especially if your playthrough is going to be anywhere in a morally gray area.
I can name better companions and I can name better written female characters in the game who don't come across as 'Karen' in nature(including some that have long quest lines) but that would mean I'd have to put in some spoilers.
Ultimately I'm not saying Bethesda isn't guilty of what's in the OP, I'm just saying there are much better way to handle the cards you have been dealt by the game.
As a warning to all who play this game, please, please, please, don't immediately choose Sarah to stay with you as a companion when given the option. Do the mission with her that she wants to do together at the beginning, then drop her off back home at the Lodge. I know it's tempting, but she will annoy the crap out of you over time, especially if your playthrough is going to be anywhere in a morally gray area.
I can name better companions and I can name better written female characters in the game who don't come across as 'Karen' in nature(including some that have long quest lines) but that would mean I'd have to put in some spoilers.
Ultimately I'm not saying Bethesda isn't guilty of what's in the OP, I'm just saying there are much better way to handle the cards you have been dealt by the game.
ZehDon
Gold Member
Thank you for ignoring most of my post, focusing exclusively on five words I used as one of two examples of the storytelling I'm tired of, and then pretending I claimed it was "inescapable in gaming". I really appreciate it.
Breaking news: online commenter discovers subjective options. More at eleven.
Humdinger
Member
Well said. I appreciate you taking the time to write that out. I haven't played Starfield, but the writing certainly sounds dull and uninspired. What a shame that they took a potential goldmine of a setting (a science fiction universe) and turned it into a tepid, unimaginative, inhuman artifice. Bethesda were never very good at writing, but this sounds like one of their worst.
Buggy Loop
Member
Sarah tells you on first mission that they don’t care about your background or what you do, some of them even come from jail, but that fucking bitch critiqued everything I did.
Coming from BG3, it’s rough. Quests are pretty entertaining, but yeah, companions are worthless. I should have picked introvert perk as I would just go solo in my missions, easier to sneak around without some doofus AI fucking it up.
Still enjoying it
Coming from BG3, it’s rough. Quests are pretty entertaining, but yeah, companions are worthless. I should have picked introvert perk as I would just go solo in my missions, easier to sneak around without some doofus AI fucking it up.
Still enjoying it
TheGodfather07
Member
Bethesda have always sucked with story and dialogue. It just stands out way more in 2023 then it did 10+ years ago. I doubt they'll ever get better at this aspect. It was always the exploration that made their games so addictive to play. They somehow butchered that aspect in starfield.
simpatico
Member
Big Bethesda fan here. Need to upgrade my PC so I've been holding off on Starfield but watching the content that's out there with interest (still not spoiled on the "twist" somehow). The hype for the game made me reinstall Fallout 4 and mod it out. Had a fairly good time playing first time since release, but eventually it lead me to reinstalled New Vegas because the story and writing was so bad. But New Vegas? Holy shit this is my first time playing it since the DLCs released! What an amazing game, and even better since now I've modded it beyond light QOL stuff that I did on release. It's really made clear how bad the writing was in FO4 and every single dialog interaction I've seen in Starfield. I was able to mod out a lot of the story in FO4 and it was still pretty bad. Starfield I don't even know is salvageable. The thing that stands out to me is the sheer amount of gayness. Almost everyone in your crew propositions you for gay behavior no matter how many times you decline. Seems very heavy handed. The character who's clearly a Neil deGrasse Tyson stand in seems to talk about every time he's spoken to.
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Slicker than your average
Banned
Lol herp derp don't critique my starfield.
But on a serious note the OP wrote and in-depth reason why the game has awful writing citing many examples.
For you and all the starfield Stan's and shameless excuses used for a game with bad reviews.
Can any of you give a coherent reason why the game has GOOD writing, other than 'despites it's flaws, I'm having fun'.
If it has good writing, please tell us and back it up with evidence. Even the intro has terrible writing. Hey your this random miner, oh touch this piece of rock. Oh you're the chosen one you must go now. Straight out of a 16bit era rpg.
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FunkMiller
Member
Look, I hate to break to a lot of you, but this kind of puritanism didn't suddenly burst forth the second a load of danger haired idiots got hired by Disney.
American popular culture has been replete with puritanism around sex and sexuality for decades. It's just that the lefties have now joined the righties in a horseshoe-meets-in-the-middle morass of puritanical nonsense that's made the problem a lot worse.
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"your companions will laud you for “Trusting the Science" (actual quote), in what is a bizarre, warped take on recent events political messaging, considering how risky the in-game choice is"
Good point, by the time I got to this faction mission I was in my second play through and I didn't make this connection. Probably because at that point I had already disconnected myself from paying any real attention to the writing or the story because it felt so sterile and pedantic in a way i couldn't really put my finger on. i don't want to say woke because they clearly tried to avoid that and people complaining about it, but it felt condescending and taught "lessons", almost as if they still managed to make it woke but in a stealth, fly by night kind of way.
at that point i just played the game for what it is and got through the missions, still managed to enjoy the game for the gameplay itself and not the horrible story telling. i could go on about how the gameplay is also sterile and merely a template of other bethesda ROGs but that's another topic.
Good point, by the time I got to this faction mission I was in my second play through and I didn't make this connection. Probably because at that point I had already disconnected myself from paying any real attention to the writing or the story because it felt so sterile and pedantic in a way i couldn't really put my finger on. i don't want to say woke because they clearly tried to avoid that and people complaining about it, but it felt condescending and taught "lessons", almost as if they still managed to make it woke but in a stealth, fly by night kind of way.
at that point i just played the game for what it is and got through the missions, still managed to enjoy the game for the gameplay itself and not the horrible story telling. i could go on about how the gameplay is also sterile and merely a template of other bethesda ROGs but that's another topic.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Re. Starfield vs Outer Worlds I’ll take Starfield any day.
Outer Worlds just beats you over the head constantly with its “capitalism and rich people are bad” message and thinks it’s so clever. It’s like if you let Reddit write a video game. I don’t even remember a single thing about the main story.
Everything about it is cynical and snarky. There is no hint of human kindness or genuine affection anywhere, everyone is a mindless corporate automaton or some self-absorbed aristocrat only concerned with their own status.
EXCEPT Parvati. The game tries so so hard to make you like her. She’s geeky and enthusiastic and her only fault is that sometimes she needs encouragement to fully embrace her awesomeness.
Her companion quest is when she tells you she has a crush on this female engineer. But she confides that she’s asexual and she’s afraid her crush wouldn’t be OK with that. So you encourage her to ask the engineer out on a date and tell her she’s ace. She does it and everything works out perfectly well.
It felt so propagandistic especially when contrasted with how unbearably cynical and anti-human the rest of the game was.
Outer Worlds just beats you over the head constantly with its “capitalism and rich people are bad” message and thinks it’s so clever. It’s like if you let Reddit write a video game. I don’t even remember a single thing about the main story.
Everything about it is cynical and snarky. There is no hint of human kindness or genuine affection anywhere, everyone is a mindless corporate automaton or some self-absorbed aristocrat only concerned with their own status.
EXCEPT Parvati. The game tries so so hard to make you like her. She’s geeky and enthusiastic and her only fault is that sometimes she needs encouragement to fully embrace her awesomeness.
Her companion quest is when she tells you she has a crush on this female engineer. But she confides that she’s asexual and she’s afraid her crush wouldn’t be OK with that. So you encourage her to ask the engineer out on a date and tell her she’s ace. She does it and everything works out perfectly well.
It felt so propagandistic especially when contrasted with how unbearably cynical and anti-human the rest of the game was.
nope can’t do.
since no one with a functioning brain would think of this as good writing, the defence has to go with stuff like
“writing doesn’t matter in a rpg” (lol)
“no game has good writing anyway” (lool)
and other variations of “leave britney alone!”
ChoosableOne
ChoosableAll
I didn't like their previous games for their writing, so it's okay for me. I haven't played Baldur's Gate 3 yet, but Larian games aren't particularly successful in terms of writing. The essence of old RPGs is no longer present in any game. If we want to see well-written RPGs, we should be willing to accept shorter games. Additionally, we shouldn't cancel good writers just because some mind fucked girls have made false accusations against them.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
I'll probably come back, eventually. Just not in the mood for such an open-ended experience. Looking at my trophies and achievements, I tend to come back to games a year or two later.
near
Gold Member
Really well written review, you explain and validate your points very well. I've held off buying Starfield until I narrow my backlog, but I've read some of your sentiments echoed before, and that is quite concerning. I'll eventually play it, but probably on sale. A huge selling point for me with Starfield wasn't the exploration, it was the exploration complimented by the world building, lore, and characters. If it has bad writing, the overall experience for me will inevitably be shit. Also, you should post impressions more often
EviLore
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EviLore
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Nemesisuuu
Member
Bethesdas writing was always awful, nothing new here. And yes, their games were always overrated (still good games) but mainstream gaming loves open world so it turns blind eye to important things like writing in favor of cliched sense of 'freedom'.
With Starfield it seems like players and media alike finally opened their eyes to some of the problems that plagued their games since Oblivion.
Still, I'm finding the game enjoyable even with it's shortcomings.
And let's be honest - Bethesda games were always rpg lite for mainstream audiences.
With Starfield it seems like players and media alike finally opened their eyes to some of the problems that plagued their games since Oblivion.
Still, I'm finding the game enjoyable even with it's shortcomings.
And let's be honest - Bethesda games were always rpg lite for mainstream audiences.
LaughingStock
Member
I've been playing bethesda games since oblivion and their writing has always been shit. I wish it wasn't so, but that's not the reason I play their games.
diffusionx
Gold Member
The Outer Worlds was the same way. They invented some dystopian frontier land in the galaxy run by soulless corporations and nobody thought to put a brothel anywhere. It's just stupid, and makes no sense, and is in some way less believable than the idea of a spacefaring civilization, just because it's such an obvious omission. I mean, you look at say the wild west, or anywhere that humans have lived, and that's all there. The fact that "asexualism" is in the damn game but a brothel isn't.. I mean lol. That's all. lol.
Kilau
Member
I feel like NeoGAF really knows me, I don't miss my stealth edit at all.
Lucifers Beard
Member
You’re that guy that defends Uwe Boll movies and enjoys Battlefield Earth, aren’t you?
In all seriousness though, that’s fair enough and I’m glad you’re enjoying it.
DanielG165
Member
I personally disagree. I’ve enjoyed the writing thus far.
Operations66
Member
So Bethesda went woke. I’ll pass on this game. What a shame. Wokeness and creativity don’t mix. This bodes ill for Elder Scrolls 6.