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Starfield is one of the worst written RPGs of all time

Good writing in an RPG means different things to different people. You might appreciate meaningful choices. You might appreciate deep conversations with realistic characters. You might appreciate an epic adventure full of memorable twists and turns. You might appreciate years spent on developing the worldbuilding for an interesting universe full of diverse characters, races, species, backgrounds, and ideas.

Well, Starfield fails at RPG writing on every level. This doesn’t mean it’s a worthless failure of a game overall. The core mechanics of exploring, shooting, and looting can hold your attention, just as they may have in Bethesda’s previous open world RPGs. But at every turn the writing slaps you in the face.

Let’s start with the companions. Dear god. All of them are Lawful Good wet blankets who criticize you every roughly 15 seconds. Inventory over the minuscule weight limit? “Have you considered NOT picking up everything you can find?” every time you pick up an item. Stealing something, including from villains? “Wow, I didn’t realize I was hanging out with a CRIMINAL” every time you pick up an item. Get into a fight that you could have conceivably avoided via dialogue options? They will sometimes leave your party and brand you irredeemable, even if the only way to avoid the enemies attacking you was through a persuasion check that you failed, leaving you with no choice but to defend yourself. You’ll still be met with the companion leaving your party and refusing to talk to you. Unless every step you take is within their exacting moral expectations you will be reprimanded or dumped.

There are also story beats with bizarre turns. During one of the main faction quests, you are given one of your few pseudo-consequential player choices. Basically, you can choose a risky scientific option that unleashes genetically engineered microbes onto humanity to solve the problem, or a less risky naturalistic option where you breed an animal that will take care of the problem. If you choose the sensible naturalistic option with what is essentially a guaranteed good outcome based on the evidence presented to you, your companions will condemn you as a mouth-breathing moron. If you choose the risky scientific option that explicitly has a chance of wiping out humanity by mutating in unknown ways, your companions will laud you for “Trusting the Science" (actual quote), in what is a bizarre, warped take on recent events political messaging, considering how risky the in-game choice is.

Not only that, but if you have a companion in your party, good luck picking any of the rare Han Solo style dialogue options. In a mission where Andreja is your forced companion, you dock with a ship with the intention of stealing an item from the owner. This a morally gray mission where you’re expected to con the owner, burglarize him, or kill him in order to retrieve the item. When you enter the ship, you’re met with one of the owner’s employees, and he asks you why you’re there. You only have two dialogue options: one, be an imbecile and tell him exactly why you’re there, or two, you can reply facetiously that you heard there was a big party on the ship and you’re here to party. If you say the latter, Andreja, who is literally there to help you steal the item by any means necessary, will respond by Disliking your comment and interjecting flatly that she “has no interest in partying.”

It's a problem endemic to all the characters in Starfield. It was marketed as a Han Solo simulator, but you are constantly badgered and browbeaten by catty, humorless women for anything you do. I won’t dwell too much on the ideological choices made to satisfy the current year climate but suffice to say that roughly 90% of the leaders in Starfield are women. And they are one-dimensional, deeply unlikeable charisma black holes who will talk to you with utter contempt most of the time. Of the remaining 10%, most of the men are presented as incompetent or evil. It’s a galaxy ruled by Karens. And the Karens are also your party members and love interests. I have never experienced a more unlikeable cast of characters in an RPG.

Let’s also consider the dreaded romance options. The first romanceable companion you encounter is Sarah. Sarah is a middle-aged ex-military leader who runs the organization you join. She’s quick to criticize you and expects you to do the conventional and lawful thing at all times. If you romance her, by choosing options like Trusting the Science and by praising her awkwardly at every opportunity in a way that would be creepy and weird to any actual human being, she will eventually begin to trust you and open up. Now, by opening up I mean she will reveal herself to be a giant ball of insecure, wallowing baggage that you are expected to comfort with dialogue options that reduce her to the emotional maturity of a small child. “Wow, you’re so strong, Sarah! Good job staving off that nervous breakdown over nothing, Sarah!” Then, inexplicably, you will end these conversations about her baggage with a “Flirt” option if you want to pursue her romantically. She will rebuff your advances awkwardly and end the conversation every time. Do this on around a dozen separate occasions, with no actual romance or flirtation between you two, only rejections at the end of your impromptu therapy sessions, and she will trust you enough to take you on her loyalty mission, which is literally to confront her emotional baggage. Complete that and she will decide that she can get involved with you romantically. Without any intimate moments, explicitly or implicitly, she will then decide that she has fallen in love with you and want to get married. Handle her baggage for her --> let’s get married. That’s how it works for humans, right? Right?

I’m genuinely horrified by the writing in this game, and I pity the people who conjured up these character interactions. They must live some of the dullest and most dysfunctional lives imaginable.

Starfield displays time and time again, without fail, that it fundamentally lacks understanding of the human condition. You land on worlds with the premise of a dystopian cyberpunk society where hard drugs are legal and everything is available for a price. When you arrive, though, all you’ll find is some tepid fully clothed dancing at a bland nightclub and a few people talking about how cu-raaazy everything is. It’s a game unwilling to explore humanity’s faults and genuine human drama on any level. At the futuristic fashionista clothing stores your only options are literally unisex tarps. Everyone is of varied ethnicity but there is no ethnic culture whatsoever. Women are purely masculine, leaving no one left to be feminine. This is not a demand for T&A by any means. In the real world, men and women don’t wear tarps and talk in monotone at a safe distance, defined purely by their profession. Life is messy and dramatic, desires and egos clash, stars rise and fall, people love and lust and hate and trust and betray. But not in Starfield, a corporate-sanitized ideological bog too afraid to include one iota of humanity in its storytelling.

RPGs are doing so much more elsewhere, from Baldur's Gate 3 to Cyberpunk 2077, but even looking back at Bethesda's own games, this one is a step backwards. The Elder Scrolls games incorporate different ethnic backgrounds and intense religious beliefs, ugly racial prejudice and morally gray deities. Starfield reeks of design by committee resulting in a product too afraid to take any storytelling risks. Nothing can ever be well-written when it is this extraordinarily conformist and risk-averse, particularly when the expectations for political correctness are so narrow in 2023.

You can do better.
Evilore coming in with the tactical nuke

that was fun to read, ty
 
Was he banned for that post?
KlTzWVU.png

He tried telling EviLore EviLore what to do on his website. But now it's poster @karevo who finds himself on the modders eyes now. And as EviLore EviLore prepares to pull out HIS ASS. It'll be daddy justice that shows THE BLICKY.
 
I'm triggered. Triggered I tell ya!

Trigger GIF by MOODMAN

Edit: fyi this is just a joke btw. Was pretending to be triggered by Evilore's post and not insinuating that Evilore is triggered by Starfield.
 
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bender

What time is it?
Good thoughts, but:

You can do better.

You and I have very similar thoughts on BGS. Have they done better in the past? Sure. But given the trajectory of their releases, I'm not sure they can do better at this point. You could levy this criticism beyond writing and to a lot of the shortcomings in their titles.
 

GymWolf

Member
The fact that almost nobody in the media was so brutally honest about the writing for obvious reasons just means that bethesda is not gonna receive the message and the next elder scrolls could potentially be even worse.

Can you imagine the same writers but with 5-6 more years of modern days brainwashing AND indoctrination (they basically have the same meaning but i wanted to flex my limited vocabulary for once).
 

Fredrik

Member
And I feel sorry for those who were told to rush to NG+ because I think that was probably the worst advice anyone could have given. I think doing that would have ruined the game entirely for me.
Yeah what was that all about? I went there in 81 hours and it was still such a major letdown. It’s on the same level as telling someone to look at the making of video before watching a movie or tell someone to skip the cutscenes in a Kojima game. Just a terrible advice that makes no sense. Pete Hines was mocked for spending 150 hours and hardly doing any main quests but that’s the right way to play this game.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Yeah what was that all about? I went there in 81 hours and it was still such a major letdown. It’s on the same level as telling someone to look at the making of video before watching a movie or tell someone to skip the cutscenes in a Kojima game. Just a terrible advice that makes no sense. Pete Hines was mocked for spending 150 hours and hardly doing any main quests but that’s the right way to play this game.

No idea. Horrible ending if I'm honest. And the "rewards" didn't justify any of it. Just bizarre.
 

F0rneus

Tears in the rain
The best part of Starfield's writing and quest structure for the actual questlines is that it goes like this.

1) Talk to guard about where to go. "You have to take the left path or else.

2) Use persuasion on guard : Ok, I'll admit it but the left path is your best option

3) Stealth around the guard, skip the dialogue and use your other skills to discover that you have to take the left side.

4) There isn't even a right side.

5) Take the left, shoot a guy and watch him skyrocket into the sun because combat is flat out glitched the fuck out.

6) Watch as your "generation defining" AI compadre tries to melee attack one guy through a door for 5 minutes.

11/10 guys.
 
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The fact that almost nobody in the media was so brutally honest about the writing for obvious reasons just means that bethesda is not gonna receive the message and the next elder scrolls could potentially be even worse.

Can you imagine the same writers but with 5-6 more years of modern days brainwashing AND indoctrination (they basically have the same meaning but i wanted to flex my limited vocabulary for once).
I was watching peacock yesterday and they kept blasting starfield commercials. Windows Central gave it a 5/5. Windows games gave it a 10/10. They showed all the good reviews they paid for and everyone on the picture with Phil Spender was highlighted as a single review in big bold letters.
 
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tr1p1ex

Member
"Kick the dog or feed it Alpo." - anonymous amazon reviewer summing up disdain for dialogue trees in rpgs specifically SW: KotoR back in the day.
 
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poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I wouldn't say it is terrible writing, it is just set in an idealized sci-fi world where people are highly principled and act by these principles to a fault- think Jules Verne or C.S.Lewis. It's just not a particularly exciting world to roleplay in, it's not like something like Cyberpunk gives you lots of chances to be a morally upstanding principled citizen who is working for the enlightenment of society.
 

Fredrik

Member
EviLore EviLore complaining about the most realistic representation of futuristic women in the medium till today.

The game takes place in the future! It can only get worse from here.
Finally a good thing to be old! Won’t have to witness that downfall. I feel sorry for my kids and grandkids though, I’ll make sure to leave some of my sleasy art around for them to check out when cleaning out the house.
 
I stopped followin
Years and years of hiring for ideological reasons instead of merit has reachead its limit and dropped the quality of everything in western and especially US entertainment industry, almost every new show, movie and now games are becoming caricatures of what this hive mind of political message "thinks" the world is or should be. And most of this "writers" dont even know how to speak with a normal human being, since they leave recluse lifes or surrounded by people that think/talk exactly like them, and this shows very clearly in the dialog they try to pass as "normal".

Hollywood is dying because of it, the streaming services are imploding and now fucking KOREAN and other foreign shows draw more attention than Hollywood multi-millionare productions.

Quality in everything comes with merit, always have, always will. In time they will learn that because money always talk.
im convinced the western media industry hires writers who don’t read books.
 

Havoc2049

Member
Ya, some of the writing and almost all the relationship stuff is socially awkward. Luckily it isn't long winded and much of it can be avoided. The worst IMO, is a JRPG that is poorly written, with awkward relationship stuff and a looong winded snooze fest.
 

Brigandier

Member
After so many people I know going on and on about this game leading up to its release I finally caved and bought another XSX to play this game since it was supposed to be the best game that will ever be made.

I played for about 20 hours and was bored shitless, The gameplay is typical dated Bethesda jank it feels so outdated and old, Almost like I'm playing a Skyrim supermod, The writing is crap, the voice acting is meh, the graphics are crap, the art style and presentation is Bethesda.

The gunplay was ok but damn the AI is so stupid, I hate the menus and the ship combat is painfully dull.

Load screens and load screens masked with annoying take offs when landing or taking off.

This game got a pass because it's Bethesda and MS backing/marketing it.

It's not a very good game and I see no reason why this is not on older consoles, oh and 30fps is rancid... not even a 40fps option is lazy.
 

sendit

Member
Finally a good thing to be old! Won’t have to witness that downfall. I feel sorry for my kids and grandkids though, I’ll make sure to leave some of my sleasy art around for them to check out when cleaning out the house.
Isn't that what your parents said to your generation?
 
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Hudo

Member
im convinced the western media industry hires writers who don’t read books.
Not only that, these writers will also tell you, with much glee and a sense of superiority, that they intentionally have never read anything by Shakespeare. That they never read anything by Alexandre Dumas. That they have never read anything by Asimov. That they think Tolkien is "overrated" and William Gibson is a "hack". In fact, I remember one so-called "writer" explaining why Shakespeare isn't relevant and why there's nothing to learn from his stuff (which is akin to a mathematician saying that Zermelo-Fraenkel Set Theory is bullshit or a musician saying that you can't learn anything from Bach). They will tell you that they "couldn't get into the Dune books" for various reasons that essentially boil down to not being able to pay attention for more than 2 pages. All the while citing some unknown millenial author as a "genius", because that guy's blog and Twitter posts are full of badly-written smut and virtue signaling with badly-written, on-the-nose metaphysics in order to appear "deep".

You're better off with GPT-4 fine-tuned on the classic authors and classic books to write you a good story than 90% of people who call themselves "writers" (most of them don't even haven an undergraduate degree in literature or drama or something similar).
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Look, I hate to break to a lot of you, but this kind of puritanism didn't suddenly burst forth the second a load of danger haired idiots got hired by Disney.

American popular culture has been replete with puritanism around sex and sexuality for decades. It's just that the lefties have now joined the righties in a horseshoe-meets-in-the-middle morass of puritanical nonsense that's made the problem a lot worse.
But make sure you sub to their only fans :messenger_weary::messenger_ok:
 

DryvBy

Member
Honest question here:

How are people now feeling about Bethesda's ability to deliver Elder Scrolls 6?

Will it be a radical departure / re-invention, or will it simply be a prettier version of Skyrim? (maybe it will feature flying mounts..?)

It's going to disappoint a ton of people and a lot of people will like it regardless.
 

cireza

Member
I am 20 hours in and the writing is serviceable. I think that the strengths of the game come from many other aspects anyway.

Comparing this to Cyberpunk doesn't feel right as I find that both games are doing very different things, and what I appreciate with Starfield and Bethesda games is the true blank page that your character is. So of course discussions by definition will not be as intense as in Cyberpunk, but on the other hand Cyberpunk forces you into a role and I personally dislike this. There are still some excellent quests in my opinion.

And this is only one aspect of Starfield, you get a lot of enjoyment from exploring, how open it is etc...
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Not only that, these writers will also tell you, with much glee and a sense of superiority, that they intentionally have never read anything by Shakespeare. That they never read anything by Alexandre Dumas. That they have never read anything by Asimov. That they think Tolkien is "overrated" and William Gibson is a "hack". In fact, I remember one so-called "writer" explaining why Shakespeare isn't relevant and why there's nothing to learn from his stuff (which is akin to a mathematician saying that Zermelo-Fraenkel Set Theory is bullshit or a musician saying that you can't learn anything from Bach). They will tell you that they "couldn't get into the Dune books" for various reasons that essentially boil down to not being able to pay attention for more than 2 pages. All the while citing some unknown millenial author as a "genius", because that guy's blog and Twitter posts are full of badly-written smut and virtue signaling with badly-written, on-the-nose metaphysics in order to appear "deep".
And with their powers combined, they write The Witcher on Netflix.
 

Fredrik

Member
Isn't that what your parents said to your generation?
Nah I’d say that things were still just getting better during their time. They certainly complained about me and my brother spending so much time behind the Commodore screen but it’s mild compared to all the things I can see evolving terribly wrong right now. AI is cool though, it’ll probably go to hell too but I think it’ll get better before things go truly south.
 
If you choose the sensible naturalistic option with what is essentially a guaranteed good outcome based on the evidence presented to you, your companions will condemn you as a mouth-breathing moron. If you choose the risky scientific option that explicitly has a chance of wiping out humanity by mutating in unknown ways, your companions will laud you for “Trusting the Science" (actual quote), in what is a bizarre, warped take on recent events political messaging, considering how risky the in-game choice is...

You can do better...
smh. the truth? i'm not so sure that anyone capable of including that quote actually has the ability to do better...

i've had fun enough with the game for almost 40 hrs, but i'm pretty sure i'm done. &, yeah, the script writing in general, & particularly as it involves your limp, lifeless band of companions, is part of the reason i just can't seem to get invested...
 

IceSage91

Banned
I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but is it safe to say that outside of New Vegas Bethesda games are all kinda mid when it comes to writing?
 
I am enjoying the game but I agree with most of the criticism.

Fairly early in the game I had a dialog choice where I gave Mateo shit about how I was winning 3-nothing when it comes to finding artifacts. He laughs and says he likes friendly competition.

Then Andreja and Noel both butt into the conversation and start scolding him saying we can’t have any competition at all. He responds like “well sometimes I find that friendly competition inspires people to do their best”, then both ladies scold him some more and shoot him down.

Should’ve known by looking at this guy that he’d play the “soy dude who gets bossed around by the girlbosses” role:

original

———

Also I’ll say that masculinity/femininity and sexual attraction do not exist in the Starfield universe. You could gender swap the entire cast of NPCs and nothing would feel different about it (aside from a few scenes like the one above now seeming like toxic men belittling their female colleague for daring to speak her mind).

Everyone everywhere wears frumpy unisex jumpsuits and exhibits zero interest in sex or relationships. Even in the Crimson Fleet
(which is supposed to be like an outlaw biker gang) has perfect gender equality and perfect gender/racial representation at all levels.

Nobody is attracted to anybody else or wants to make themselves attractive to others. Nobody has any sort of libido or biological urges. Like the whole world is populated by sexless non-gendered automatons defined entirely by their profession + D&D alignment.

It's Demolition Man without the Simon Phoenix. The Pirates are just as de-nutted.
 
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For me the main quest of the game is this Crimson Fleet quest chain which is as badass as ever. To be a spy but a pacifist enough to not blow your cover. Really well done and you get to see the ugly side of the UC with the bureaucratic /militaristic nonsense.
The main main quest I just started with Sam Coe I just had to be a smart ass and its hillarious how taken aback these npcs become.
 

Fake

Member
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