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Will we ever get rid of the screen flickering with VRR enabled?

Stafford

Stafford

Member
VRR is a game changer. With several games now it's been a very welcome feature on consoles and I rather just keep it enabled. But one glaring issue is the screen flickering in dark areas.

Fatal Frame Remake for example and also this walking simulator called Two Falls. It doesn't matter if it's HDR or SDR, but it's terrible in both games when it's night time. As soon as I disable VRR on my Series X it's gone. It seems these games don't make use of it, but it's fucking annoying to have to enable/disable case by case.

What even is causing this and when will it just go the fuck away?
 
as someone who doesn't really notice VRR flicker... I don't really care. for me it's already good enough.

or maybe it's just that Samsung TVs do it better then others 🤷 no idea.
 
I've never seen that. I have VRR enabled on Xbox but I don't know how to tell when it's active.

If the game isn't making use of VRR anyway, it's strange that it would cause problems. Maybe something weird about your TV, or perhaps you could try a different HDMI port or something.
 
I think it's caused by widely fluctuating framerates. I only ever see it in loading screens where fps can go from 1 to 500fps. if your seeing it in game try limiting framerate to around your average fps.
 
Oh. It surprises me you guys don't notice it. Well. All I can say is don't go looking for it then, if this works now keep it that way, lol.

It's weird. Because I don't notice it in every game.

calistan said:
I've never seen that. I have VRR enabled on Xbox but I don't know how to tell when it's active.

If the game isn't making use of VRR anyway, it's strange that it would cause problems. Maybe something weird about your TV, or perhaps you could try a different HDMI port or something.
Click to expand...
Oh that's interesting. It's only with games that make use of it? I did say Fatal Frame isn't using it. But honestly I don't know for sure. Because I just read the game is supposed to be 30fps but it sure felt way above that for me. Perhaps it IS using VRR.

Not sure about that Two Falls game though.

I have a Sony A95K QD-OLED and don't believe it's a issue exclusive to that TV. I'm just glad it's not with every single game.
 
Stafford said:
VRR is a game changer. With several games now it's been a very welcome feature on consoles and I rather just keep it enabled. But one glaring issue is the screen flickering in dark areas.

Fatal Frame Remake for example and also this walking simulator called Two Falls. It doesn't matter if it's HDR or SDR, but it's terrible in both games when it's night time. As soon as I disable VRR on my Series X it's gone. It seems these games don't make use of it, but it's fucking annoying to have to enable/disable case by case.

What even is causing this and when will it just go the fuck away?
Click to expand...
Are you using an OLED tv or monitor by any chance?
 
Stafford said:
VRR is a game changer. With several games now it's been a very welcome feature on consoles and I rather just keep it enabled. But one glaring issue is the screen flickering in dark areas.

Fatal Frame Remake for example and also this walking simulator called Two Falls. It doesn't matter if it's HDR or SDR, but it's terrible in both games when it's night time. As soon as I disable VRR on my Series X it's gone. It seems these games don't make use of it, but it's fucking annoying to have to enable/disable case by case.

What even is causing this and when will it just go the fuck away?
Click to expand...
I think its unstable framerate . If you fps goes under or above your monitor/TV VRR range then it can flicker.
 
I've struggled a bit with this on PC and it doesn't seem like anyone has a good solution for it if we're talking about the same "gamma flicker".

After trying out different settings, hardware, and cables, the only thing that ever helped me was to tighten up my FPS by setting limits to reduce the "jumps". However, if I'm going in and out of menus and the game decides to go to 0 fps then back up to 90, that will still give me the flicker.

If your TV can do black frame insertion, you could try that but it never did anything for me.
 
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Higher frame rate TVs (240-360Hz) might help. If you had a game running in a 360Hz container with an internal FPS of 30-60FPS you could have the display output 330-360Hz with some sort of dynamic low frame rate compensation.

The endgame dream of frame generation is basically for VRR to go away, and you just dynamically generates frame up to the display frame rate cap and always run at that.
 
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OLED and good VA panels - this issue exists since VRR/Freesync was introduced.

It can be better or worse depending on model or even unit. For example my B2 was almost perfect with it for ~1.5 years until brilliant LG pushed update that fucked up VRR flicker with HDR mode (I even send them e-mails about it). Now with SDR it's pretty much perfect with 61-119Hz refresh rate, but with HDR it flickers like motherfucker. So I have to lock framerates to being close to 60/90/100/120 set refresh rate, when framerate drops I can see flicker but it's not a problem when that happens occasionally. But I won't tolerate fully unlocked framerate now...

Looks like TV/monitor producers don't give a shit about it because it hasn't been fixed since 2019.

More info:

www.rtings.com

VRR Flicker Problem In Monitors: Six Popular Gaming OLEDs All Have This Issue

OLED flickering while gaming has been a known issue for several years now; any moment when a game experiences an unstable or erratic frame rate, owners of expensive OLEDs see periodic flashes or flicker.
www.rtings.com www.rtings.com

How it looks (6:30):

 
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The only time I have used VRR is for console games. I have a good LG TV and a great monitor and I have not had this issue.

I do not use VRR for pc gaming. I just lock the framerate to the highest it can go based on where/what I am playing.
 
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Funnily enough I had this issue with my Samsung 1440p 144 Hz QLED, but not with my new Asus 4K 240Hz QD-OLED.
 
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kevboard said:
as someone who doesn't really notice VRR flicker... I don't really care. for me it's already good enough.

or maybe it's just that Samsung TVs do it better then others 🤷 no idea.
Click to expand...
It's possible that Sony is a bit worse in this. I had a Samsung S95b before this Sony A95K but I don't remember if I saw it there as well.
buenoblue said:
I think it's caused by widely fluctuating framerates. I only ever see it in loading screens where fps can go from 1 to 500fps. if your seeing it in game try limiting framerate to around your average fps.
Click to expand...
Sadly I'm on Xbox Series X and can't do such things.
Calverz said:
Are you using an OLED tv or monitor by any chance?
Click to expand...
QD-OLED TV.
TheAtomicPile said:
I've struggled a bit with this on PC and it doesn't seem like anyone has a good solution for it if we're talking about the same "gamma flicker".

After trying out different settings, hardware, and cables, the only thing that ever helped me was to tighten up my FPS by setting limits to reduce the "jumps". However, if I'm going in and out of menus and the game decides to go to 0 fps then back up to 90, that will still give me the flicker.

If your TV can do black frame insertion, you could try that but it never did anything for me.
Click to expand...
My TV doesn't have such an option unfortunately, and I am on console so I can't do much about it fps wise.
mitch1971 said:
Maybe your eyes are broken.
Click to expand...
Maybe that's just a very retarded ass comment.
 
RTings was pushing manufacturers to find a solution but I guess their war is over now with their site gone to shit. Only solution is to disable VRR and deal with screen tearing. Dont worry about ppl saying they don't notice, theyre full of shit.
 
Alright I'll leave the thread now because I don't want to see examples that I'll never be able to unsee.
 
On my Oled tv there's never been flickering but on my curved acer monitor the flickering is a bitch.

I wouldn't have bought the monitor if I had known about the issue
 
spons said:
It's fully paywalled.
Click to expand...
The Cockatrice said:
They censored everything behind a paywall. Yes, everything, because of AI.
Click to expand...

Thats annoying but I understand and sympathise with the reason, paying the up front yearly cost would be reasonable for what you get from them imo, if you're buying a new TV to last you 6+ years and costs 1000s then paying 30 quid isnt exactly a sting.

I'm interested in the results generally but I also used it for my job sometimes, so it translated directly to money, one sale could give me that year's worth of membership money back. So I'm biased in that regard.

Finding a rep like I was where I tried to be as fair and honest as possible and getting the information "for free" would be a much larger waste of your own man hours than just paying the subscription fee.
 
Here's two examples

The first shows the issue, it's with VRR enabled on Xbox. In the clip it's extremely bad, but somehow the recording makes it look even worse. It's still bad though.



Without VRR

 
TheAtomicPile said:
I've struggled a bit with this on PC and it doesn't seem like anyone has a good solution for it if we're talking about the same "gamma flicker".

After trying out different settings, hardware, and cables, the only thing that ever helped me was to tighten up my FPS by setting limits to reduce the "jumps". However, if I'm going in and out of menus and the game decides to go to 0 fps then back up to 90, that will still give me the flicker.
Click to expand...
yeah, i only notice it with a low and/or highly variable framerate.
loading screens can be consistent offenders.

The Cockatrice said:
Only solution is to disable VRR and deal with screen tearing.
Click to expand...
just use fast vsync if your VRR is tarding out
feels good and is better than tearing
 
Stafford said:
It's possible that Sony is a bit worse in this. I had a Samsung S95b before this Sony A95K but I don't remember if I saw it there as well.

Sadly I'm on Xbox Series X and can't do such things.

QD-OLED TV.

My TV doesn't have such an option unfortunately, and I am on console so I can't do much about it fps wise.

Maybe that's just a very retarded ass comment.
Click to expand...

I don't know anything about the game you're playing but if it is falling out of vrr range (typically 48 to 120 hz) even for a split second, there won't be anything you can do, especially on console.
 
cinnamonandgravy said:
yeah, i only notice it with a low and/or highly variable framerate.
loading screens can be consistent offenders.


just use fast vsync if your VRR is tarding out
feels good and is better than tearing
Click to expand...
Testing it now with Indiana Jones and I don't have the issue at all. So it definitely seems to be what you are saying. I guess FF and Two Falls have variable framerate, even though I don't notice that while playing at all.
 
CrustyBritches said:
Have you tried a different display, or a different device on that display?
Click to expand...
I only have one display that supports VRR. And I only have a Switch 1 next to my Xbox Series X, no other systems.
TheAtomicPile said:
I don't know anything about the game you're playing but if it is falling out of vrr range (typically 48 to 120 hz) even for a split second, there won't be anything you can do, especially on console.
Click to expand...
Yeah I guess it has to be that because I don't have it with Indiana Jones, not Dying Light The Beast and so on.

Thank god.
 
This is not a VRR issue. It's a display issue that's most prominent in OLEDs due to variations in power output depending on the active refresh rate of the display.
 
VRR flicker is real and very annoying, and way more prevalent than I'd like. And yet, there's a secondary issue with VRR that is specific to LED televisions.

LED TVs have worse motion handling than OLEDs, but it's pretty decent these days. Not on your budget models mind you, but the midrange and higher ones that come with pixel overdrive. But guess what gets turned off when you turn VRR on? Pixel overdrive. I have a Sony Bravia 9 which is currently Sony's best LED TV to date, and it's no exception. If you have VRR enabled on your TV, it turns all motion into smeary dogshit even if VRR is not being actively used! I keep it disabled, it's mind-blowing how bad it is. It's like having motion blur permanently enabled for all content that exists.

TDLR: if you have an LED TV, I highly recommend disabling VRR on the TV itself.
 
Unfortunately short of the TV manufacturer doing a firmware update, to the answer the question "Will we ever get rid of the screen flickering with VRR enabled?"
The answer is MOST people already "Got Rid" of this by not owning a TV which is greatly affected if at all- This is a case by case, apparent issue with the tech.

Whats more is, these OLED panels are all made in the same place across brands so it could be something partly inherent in the way these OLEDs must be controller.
Panasonic, Sony, LG, SAMSUNG, I think are all using the same panels, its why all OLEDs basically come int he same sizes including the oddball sizes of 77 and 83 inches...

Because this matters a lot to gamers- this is something gamers should keep in mind and check into before purchasing a TV- especially such an expensive TV.
Its really too bad because we know many many people buying these high end TVs Do game - Dont even get me started on the issue being present on
PC gaming monitors..... which is how we know it may simply be a panel control problem and its possible that "working around" it may run some risk of becoming
non compliant with the standard VRR implementation and so.... here we are. Just something to work through..

A strong example of something annoying like this would go back to the CRT days. Something "inherent" in a CRT was that when a scene was very bright
the entire image would EXPAND - sometimes by a lot, It did give a lot of impact and effect actually - this was because of the fluctuation in the voltage of the power
supply when a heavy draw was placed on the set. SONY in particular made a couple of sets with VERY robust high voltage power supplies that essentially did not have
this issue. There were even plenty of PC monitors which had this issue to some degree but usually it was no so bad- of course this went away with per pixel displays
and LCD doesnt deal with that- But it ABSOLUTELY drove people insane who knew about it because you could never unsee it- and many people when they would get into
calibrating TVs learned that the overscan borders they set while in the service menus were actually very dependent on the content being displayed... if youd set them RIGHT to the edge
while displaying a bright test image, youd end up with a smaller than screen picture when watching something dimmer.... seeing the screen edge flaws and all.

To be honest... After all those battle hardened years with CRTs, Plasmas, LCD projection sets, DLP... I am more than happy to have to wade through and watch for a few small issues
like this..... but if someone doesnt know about it - this can be heart breaking to discover after investing 1500-5000 bucks in an OLED TV- I hope this issue ends up being a footnote.
Though that said it seems like OLED itself may be sunsetting at least in consumer TVs as they go toward new tech (Micro RGB or something now?)
 
Stafford said:
Here's two examples

The first shows the issue, it's with VRR enabled on Xbox. In the clip it's extremely bad, but somehow the recording makes it look even worse. It's still bad though.



Without VRR

Click to expand...

That is super atrocious....I think I have that on SX...will try it out but I have never seen that playing on either the SX or PS5/Pro (tv display) or on the switch 2 (handheld mode only).
 
Meicyn said:
VRR flicker is real and very annoying, and way more prevalent than I'd like. And yet, there's a secondary issue with VRR that is specific to LED televisions.

LED TVs have worse motion handling than OLEDs, but it's pretty decent these days. Not on your budget models mind you, but the midrange and higher ones that come with pixel overdrive. But guess what gets turned off when you turn VRR on? Pixel overdrive. I have a Sony Bravia 9 which is currently Sony's best LED TV to date, and it's no exception. If you have VRR enabled on your TV, it turns all motion into smeary dogshit even if VRR is not being actively used! I keep it disabled, it's mind-blowing how bad it is. It's like having motion blur permanently enabled for all content that exists.

TDLR: if you have an LED TV, I highly recommend disabling VRR on the TV itself.
Click to expand...
Well mine is a QD-OLED but I guess that falls under LED too, right?

I disabled it on the TV but it's immediately noticeable in the game. Framerate is much worse, so it's definitely making use of VRR and the flickering is very visible too.

Now I'm starting to get afraid any game making use of VRR suffers from this and the reason i hadn't noticed yet is because I just didn't happen to be playing those games.
 
Miyazaki's Slave said:
That is super atrocious....I think I have that on SX...will try it out but I have never seen that playing on either the SX or PS5/Pro (tv display) or on the switch 2 (handheld mode only).
Click to expand...
Yeah right now there's only a demo of the game. If you don't have it. Then it's sadly my TV doing this shit. Or do you happen to have a Sony tv as well?
 
VRR flicker is not usually the fault of the display. Its more often than not due to wildly inconsistent framerates.

Adjust the ingame settings to get better framerates
 
Only ever had VRR on 3 different monitors used on PC, and I never had it on any.

1st: AOC 1080p 144hz TN G-Sync
2nd: AOC 1080p 144 IPS Freesync (and a replacement when that died in warranty)
3rd: AOC 1440p 180hz IPS Freesync (x2)

VRR flicker is one of the things that puts me off OLED.
 
Depends on the panel - on my somewhat high end Samsung (non OLED) there is no flicker at all, but I have seen other panels where it is a pain to watch
 
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analog_future said:
This is not a VRR issue. It's a display issue that's most prominent in OLEDs due to variations in power output depending on the active refresh rate of the display.
Click to expand...

This can be seen on all current displays that can show deep contrast, some VA panels as well.

This is more about internal electronics than panel type.

Soodanim said:
Only ever had VRR on 3 different monitors used on PC, and I never had it on any.

1st: AOC 1080p 144hz TN G-Sync
2nd: AOC 1080p 144 IPS Freesync (and a replacement when that died in warranty)
3rd: AOC 1440p 180hz IPS Freesync (x2)

VRR flicker is one of the things that puts me off OLED.
Click to expand...

It's not possible to see that on IPS because they have low contrast values.
 
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JohnnyFootball said:
VRR flicker is not usually the fault of the display. Its more often than not due to wildly inconsistent framerates.

Adjust the ingame settings to get better framerates
Click to expand...
Wish I could. But consoles don't offer those options. I'm not on PC.

I tried a different HDMI input as well, but it makes no difference.
 
basically I am playing at 60hz with FPS locked at 58 (or reflex on) on my OLED, this gives me no flicker. But with 120hz + variable frames = flicker hell.
 
DanEON said:
basically I am playing at 60hz with FPS locked at 58 (or reflex on) on my OLED, this gives me no flicker. But with 120hz + variable frames = flicker hell.
Click to expand...

Yeah, with 60Hz lock there is zero issues, it can even drop to 45FPS/Hz and it looks perfect. But 61-119Hz looks like trash (only in HDR mode but still).

Stafford said:
Wish I could. But consoles don't offer those options. I'm not on PC.

I tried a different HDMI input as well, but it makes no difference.
Click to expand...

TBH I'm surprised you are seeing any issues on console with this game, FF2 is 30fps locked on consoles - it should look fine with both 60 and 120Hz output. Are you using SX or PS5?
 
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DanEON said:
basically I am playing at 60hz with FPS locked at 58 (or reflex on) on my OLED, this gives me no flicker. But with 120hz + variable frames = flicker hell.
Click to expand...
I curious and tried this. Set Xbox to 60hz and keep VRR on, sadly didn't fix it.

I remember that Plague Tale 2 greatly benefits from VRR too in the 120hz mode on Xbox Series X, I'm gonna test that one because I could swear i didn't have flickering there. And if so, that means it won't affect every game with variable framerate.

And I don't see it in light areas, it's solely in dark areas, so it's horrible for a horror game, night time in any game if the fps isn't consistent.
 
Bojji said:
Yeah, with 60Hz lock there is zero issues, it can even drop to 45FPS/Hz and it looks perfect. But 61-119Hz looks like trash (only in HDR mode but still).



TBH I'm surprised you are seeing any issues on console with this game, FF2 is 30fps locked on consoles - it should look fine with both 60 and 120Hz output. Are you using SX or PS5?
Click to expand...
SX.

It is 100% locked framerate? Because when I disable VRR either on tv or Xbox I immediately notice a slightly choppier camera pan when I do so.
 
Doesn't affect me enough to notice and therefore don't really care. I have 3 OLED's and a monitor and don't see this. Shimmering and things with "jaggies" and technical screen noise such as upscaling resolving fence or grass rendering. This is a non issue for me.
 
Stafford said:
Yeah right now there's only a demo of the game. If you don't have it. Then it's sadly my TV doing this shit. Or do you happen to have a Sony tv as well?
Click to expand...
No I have LG tv's and a few different monitors with VRR.

Thought that was Silent Hill F...oops. Will download the demo and give it a go!
 
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