I mean that the HW difference is not big enough to allow that to happen.
In most cases I expect Magnus to run higher internal res (e.g PS6 1080p upscaled to 4K, Magnus 1440P upscaled to 4K) or using slightly higher quality settings.
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Asha Sharma: Next Xbox Project Name: "Helix" - Will 'lead in performance and play your Xbox and PC games'
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
In most cases I expect Magnus to run higher internal res (e.g PS6 1080p upscaled to 4K, Magnus 1440P upscaled to 4K) or using slightly higher quality settings.
Topher
Identifies as young
Ah..whew. I misunderstood. Yeah, that makes sense.
Snowdonhoffen
Member
I think he's saying the difference it's not going to get to those extremes. Unless I'm misreading it
Topher
Identifies as young
No you read it right. I misread
memoryman3
Member
Since this is a "PC" wouldn't there be room to turn on PT where PS6 won't? At a lower resolution? Magnus seems to meet the minimum bar for a path traced game at 1080p 30fps, whereas PS6 falls a bit short.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Proelite
Member
PS6: 1080p
Magnus: 1440p
Steam Machine: big pp
Helix console. 900p.
Steam Machine: 480p.
Proelite
Member
The PS5 Pro is $750 right now. How much do you think a PS6 that is at least 2x better across the board will cost?
AI and OS bloatware could knock off at least a couple of % from the advantage Magnus has over PS6
demigod
Member
I wish you didnt misread it. Imagine all the articles we could've had!
demigod
Member
Deserved. Bro was shilling in every thread about the same thing.
Proelite
Member
Bojji
Member
Topher
Identifies as young
The can't. They are comparing this stuff on paper just like everyone else.
Topher
Identifies as young
I was thinking the same thing. lol
Bojji
Member
But there are more paper specs than just CUs numbers to compare.
Topher
Identifies as young
They talk about more than just CU numbers in the video. It isn't a thorough overview either way
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Bojji
Member
To be honest I suspected that this tweet is warping reality to some extend. I will have to watch this video later.
Topher
Identifies as young
Yeah....I was focused more on the video than the tweet. This Nib fellow is a big PlayStation guy so gotta keep that in mind.
reinking
Gold Member
Must be a "young" person problem because I did too.
Fess
Member
Can't see many swapping platforms because of a power difference, it's a waste of time arguing about that, it's not going to matter.
Those who have a big library on PlayStation are going to get PS6.
Those who have a big library on Xbox are going to get Helix.
That's it.
Then there will be talk about features. PC stores, emulators, modding. Depending how interested you are in that it could make a difference. But Steam Machine is first on the ball there.
Those who have a big library on PlayStation are going to get PS6.
Those who have a big library on Xbox are going to get Helix.
That's it.
Then there will be talk about features. PC stores, emulators, modding. Depending how interested you are in that it could make a difference. But Steam Machine is first on the ball there.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I genuinely think he's on a heavy spectrum.
Somewhere between trailer park and fetal alcohol syndrome.
"Oliver adds "especially if you're looking at an unsubsidised box on one end, subsidised box on the other end, there could be a substantial price price premium you're paying for that performance.""Because the new Xbox Magnus die is also over 400mm squared, even though I think it is a dual die design, that is a considerably large die for a console. Whereas PS6 seems to be a die around PS5 Pro size, as it's a very svelte die that's monolithic, so that should be cheaper to produce just by its nature as well"Considering #PS5 is also launching AFTER #Xbox Helix, and is likely to come with more mature or advanced Project Amethyst features or customisations, and Helix might not have tenrpole Xbox exclusives either, next-gen could be one where the new Xbox hardware is considerably worse value proposition vs PlayStation hardware, more so than all prior gens."
Hmm this seems to go against the heavily pushed narrative that ps6 is getting the gimped tech and helix/magnus will be well ahead in all aspects? That ps6 tech was designed in a cave back in 1980 etc and definitely locked in.....while magnus is beta tested in the future....?
Topher
Identifies as young
Proelite
Member
AT2. It's not a derivative, it's literally the AT2 chiplet.
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pixelation
Member
Ignore.
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Proelite
Member
pixelation
Member
The XB Helix could ship with the option to suck my peepee and I would still choose a PS6 over it.
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viveks86
Member
2x already means it's definitely happening
Self High Five
Member
I didn't mention the PS5 Pro or PS6 at all but if we go down this road the price range you mentioned makes even less sense. If Helix is supposed to be significantly more powerful than the XSX, PS5 Pro and more powerful than a PS6, how can it possibly be less expensive than a PS5 Pro and $50 more than a console released over a half decade ago?
The price determining these consoles is more than just the BoM. There are business expectations for each console. According to Kepler Sony has been selling the PS5 at a loss for most of this gen outside of a brief period of profitability. PS5 Pro was allegedly sold at profit day one.
Sony expected PS5 to reach 100M+ users when it launched. Sony expects PS5 Pro to be 10-20% of PS5 total sold. One has expectations of a mass market device, another is expected to get a fraction of that.
MS significantly raised the price of the XSX for a reason.
Proelite
Member
1. Look at the specs that I posted for Helix. It was not Magnus.
2. Xbox series prices were raised to not be sold at a loss. Since MS never moved production out of China until recently, and didn't stock up pre-tariff like Sony did, their per unit cost is much higher due to lower economies of scale, and tariffs. Also the digital Xsx is $549 MSRP.
3. Moving to a new node, especially when memory and SSD are overpriced, doesn't add much to a BOM comparatively.
4. My MSRP for the Helix console was break-even cost for 2027. $699-$799 for the specs I listed is reasonable when K KeplerL2 put Magnus's BOM at $900. Caveat is of course, that tariff and ramAggedon doesn't worsen.
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Fess
Member
Lol that's one way to say it. But yeah the general idea is correct, and vice verse for Xbox fans. It's interesting to talk about the other box but leaving potentially hundreds of games behind is going to sting badly for everyone at this point.
That's also why you see Xbox fans excited over Helix. Xbox ain't dying yet, there is no need to start over on PlayStation, the transition over to PC feels like an upgrade when you can tap into Steam, Epic, mods, emulators. For console-only gamers it's going to feel more like an expansion than anything else.
I just hope MS realize how important the UI is going to be. They need to hide away Windows desktop as if it's shameful to show even seconds of it. You never ever want to see a dialogue box where you need a mouse cursor to press a button or type something on a keyboard. Can't happen. They need override all that somehow and turn it into controller menus. And don't show error messages, a black screen and crash back to the main UI is better than seeing a Windows dialogue box. They should copy Steam Big Picture Mode as much as they possibly can, or better yet Steam Deck/SteamOS where you specifically choose to go out to the desktop, it's nearly flawless, feels like using a console.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
More shader engines than PS6 and similar clocks or they are going for higher clocks too? I would suspect the former, but to get 33% difference the clocks story must be similar.
Then again, Sony knows they should not push the cost for the console so high they cannot sell to customers in the $599-699 range. I do not think Magnus will be close to it.
1440p isn't slightly higher, it's double the pixels(which could also double the framerate in some gpu limited cases).
In context it's a bigger delta than ps4 to xb1, and that itself was biggest in-gen delta since the original xbox.
Bernardougf
Member
I think the "returning to console" and everything that was said is just more MS bullshit and MS famous loose speech, to getter the faithful to not only buy the thing and but also return to "digital army and free marketing" form ... and it really works as we see here.
Ill eat the biggest crow ever if MS intentions are nothing more that to become a niche gaming PC vendor like Alienware and maybe compete with the steam machine for this specific "new" living room pc market. I dont think mass production traditional console business are in their goals anymore no matter the fake bullshit their famous PR are blabbing about.
MrTired
Member
Unless you think this box is gonna sell as much as the Series console then your assertion is already wrong.
There will absolutely be a migration of Xbox users to others platforms. That Steam, and especially Playstation are targeting growth coming from.
Series S owners are going to be lost without a doubt, those user value value and that won't be provided by Xbox hardware anymore.
With Xbox pushing for Gamepass as a solution to them losing the generation when digital library were established. It was also seen as a way to mitigate the fact that the majority of consumers did not having Xbox libraries.
Now however their greatest strength also becomes their greatest weakness. If users libraries are made up from majority Gamepass titles it makes it easier to move to another ecosystem when the user had been paying to access games rather than buy games alacart.
100% see why Xbox fans on here, other forums, twitter, Reddit are excited by the hardware. We are enthusiast who are extremely more likely to be invested in more than 1 ecosystem/hardware. So Xbox fant having a place where there entire catalogue is consolidated in one place is exciting. However I don't see the market for this being more than Vita/Wii U best case scenario.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Looking forward to getting clock speeds etc so we can really get an idea of the differences of these boxes.
meech
Member
Question is if the npu can help with graphic task, like fsr.
according to copilot( dont know if actually correct):
Leaks about "Xbox Magnus" and "Project Helix" describe an NPU with ~110 TOPS of AI compute. That's a huge jump compared to current consoles and is explicitly positioned as a core part of Microsoft's next‑gen strategy.
NPUs excel at:
But it can help in these ways:
according to copilot( dont know if actually correct):
Leaks about "Xbox Magnus" and "Project Helix" describe an NPU with ~110 TOPS of AI compute. That's a huge jump compared to current consoles and is explicitly positioned as a core part of Microsoft's next‑gen strategy.
NPUs excel at:
- AI upscaling / super‑resolution
- AI frame generation
- AI denoising (including ray‑tracing denoisers)
- Animation & physics prediction
- Latency reduction techniques
How it could help with ray tracing
The NPU won't do ray tracing itself — that's still handled by dedicated RT hardware in the GPU (likely AMD UDNA-based).But it can help in these ways:
1. AI Ray-Tracing Denoising
Ray tracing requires heavy denoising.An NPU can run advanced neural denoisers that:- Clean up noisy RT samples faster
- Allow fewer rays per pixel, reducing GPU load
- Improve RT quality at the same performance level
2. AI-based RT reconstruction
Similar to NVIDIA's DLSS Ray Reconstruction, an NPU could:- Rebuild missing ray data
- Improve reflections, GI, and shadows
- Reduce artifacts from low-sample RT
3. Frame generation for RT modes
RT modes are expensive.AI frame generation can:
- Double perceived framerate
- Make RT modes more playable
- Reduce the need for aggressive resolution cuts
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Yautja_Warrior
Member
Hopefully they have actually learned some things and the Helix has some unique and useful features, because if it just comes down to being a bit more powerful again (and more expensive) then I don't see this changing things for Xbox. They are already trying to ice skate uphill against PlayStation, so they need to play it smart.
This next gen could either be really boring, as we might already know the results, if past gens are anything to go by or it could actually be pretty exciting if both sides come out with great machines that do some things differently.
This next gen could either be really boring, as we might already know the results, if past gens are anything to go by or it could actually be pretty exciting if both sides come out with great machines that do some things differently.
Topher
Identifies as young
Probably right. My post was more hopeful for a change in direction than realistic. I just think Xbox is on a bad path forward yet again.
sephirot_buns
Neo Member
.
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sephirot_buns
Neo Member
those who have a big library on Xbox are already migrating buddy, its a dead platform with nothing going for them
that 25M installbase about to melt to 5M
splattered
Member
Wrong
MrTired
Member
Genuinely curious how many units do you see the Xbox Helix hardware selling?
Topher
Identifies as young
How many units of a $1200 console do you see selling?
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Depends if it plays all PC games and lets say it does indeed have around the power equal to a current 5080 PC