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[Ponn]

I don't think this is likely at all!

Firstly, I've read that Zimmerman has called 911 46 times since August 2011, and in every case reported young teens he considered suspicious. None of those calls reference an actual crime.

Secondly, I don't think the screams are Zimmerman at all. The narrative built up by the calls to me is quite clear.

• A neighbourhood watchman calls the police and says he sees a suspicious character in the neighbourhood.
• From 48 seconds into the call to around the 1m20 mark, he tries to play the South Park "he's coming straight for me" line... this is obviously Treyvon looking back at a guy who is staring at him on a phone. Bear in mind that at this point Zimmerman is stalking him from his SUV!
• When asked for a description - Zimmerman says "he looks black" (to be fair, the dispatcher asks for ethnicity and things like that)... but it is telling that Zimmerman feels like he "looks like he's up to no good, like he's on drugs or something". He wasn't.
• At 1:39 he expresses a frustration that "these assholes always get away"
• Only 2 minutes into the call, Treyvon starts running.
• At 2:08-2:20, you can hear Zimmerman's increasing anaerobic activity, and it has been suggested he says "Fucking Coons" under his breath at 2:22.... not an argument I'm interested in, frankly, it's irrelevant to me. The point is, Zimmerman is following him as he runs.
• The Dispatcher now asks "Are you following him?" -- "Yeah", responds Zimmerman -- "OK we don't need you to do that" -- "OK", responds Zimmerman... yet he continued to follow

In a subsequent call from a neighbour we hear the trail end of a pursuit and disturbance outside. We can hear screaming... not just a screaming, but a desperate shrieking - for help.

For Zimmerman to not be the aggressor - what would have had to have happened is for the chase to go, Scooby Doo style, from Zimmerman chasing Treyvon to Treyvon chasing Zimmerman. I just don't believe it. A man who patrols a neighbourhood like a wannabe cop and arms himself with a gun, chasing an unarmed man - knows how to handle himself, he doesn't have to run away or scream for help. And that voice sounds young. Treyvon's mother recognises it as her sons voice. While some might say she may just want to nail Zimmerman no matter what, I see no reason why I should trust the man who ignored officers, pursued someone and then shot them, over the mother of a murdered victim.

Right...i'm not trying to say he wasn't the aggressor, reread what I wrote. Have you ever been bullied? They are always the aggressor. And people are making to big of a deal on stuff that in the end is just going to distract from the main gist which is Zimmerman instigating all this. Theres nothing wrong at all with Trayvon standing up for himself and SOMETHING had to trigger a scuffle. Unless you truly believe Zimmerman just pulled out his gun and ran at Trayvon all Michael Mann style there was a confrontation. The prosecution is going to have establish the point where Zimmerman pulled his gun and shot him and the immediate events leading up to it.

A defense of a 17 year old half screaming for help puts him in a position of helplessness and THEN Zimmerman still shoots him in this weakened state? I don't find that credible or likely. A paper tiger bully who got stood up to, beat a little bit in a scuffle and then in panic pulls his gun and shoots, i find that much more likely in this case. Don't be emotional about it, think it through and keep in mind NONE OF THAT excuses Zimmerman and puts any blame on Trayvon.

 

[bjb]

So what's going to happen when Zimmerman goes to trial and he's acquitted of all charges?

 

[radioheadrule83]

So what's going to happen when Zimmerman goes to trial and he's acquitted of all charges?

Street justice hopefully

 

[Yoritomo]

The law and the case law decides when people can use deadly force, and the bar isn't very high here. You can shoot someone dead in Florida, and in many states, for punching you, period.

In Florida, you can PROBABLY shoot someone dead for TRYING to punch you and missing, with you merely suspecting that he is going to try to punch you again. While he's naked enough that you can be 100% certain that he doesn't have a weapon and that there are no weapons other than yours available.

My personal rule is I don't draw unless there's a weapon involved, one of my children is being attacked, or I'm faced with multiple opponents. However if there was an individual who was clearly much more powerful than me and confronted me in a situation where I had no means to retreat I'd also draw.

I've already drawn once, but that was a situation where I was alone walking to my vehicle in a movie theater parking lot and the potential assailants had a baseball bat.

 

[Caddle]

Do you know where the reports of the bloody nose and wet shirt came from?

That was stated by the police chief in the interview given last week. He stated zimmerman had wounds to his face and back. When they look at the original report filed by the officer on the scene, it never stated that. The report was amended to reflect that fact.

 

[Onemic]

Those are the standards and requirements for someone who is the initial aggressor; they're greater, as everyone can recognize that they should be, but, again, the body of case law is what nails down what all those terms mean. The expectation that "grievous bodily harm" might be suffered in the case where one is not the aggressor, for instance, has been taken to mean just about any kind of injury at all: the belief that one might possibly receive a bruise on the cheekbone in the near future from someone is, in many states, sufficient justification to shoot an unarmed person dead. Edit: meaning someone who is KNOWN to be unarmed, too.

Stalking and chasing someone down isn't threatening? Pretty sure that would constitute justifiable force by Trayvon if he did throw the first punch.

 

[radioheadrule83]

A paper tiger bully who got stood up to, beat a little bit in a scuffle and then in panic pulls his gun and shoots, i find that much more likely in this case. Don't be emotional about it, think it through and keep in mind NONE OF THAT excuses Zimmerman and puts any blame on Trayvon.

Replace "in panic" with "in anger and hatred" and it becomes even more believable to me. That's why I laid out the context of him calling 46 times prior about other suspicious teens... whether he's prejudiced or not, he certainly seems to believe that kids are a problem, and if he's chased one down and had that kid defend himself, perhaps land a good defensive punch, or simply grappled him to avoid being attacked, I can well believe Zimmerman might have been pissed off enough to pull a gun and pull the trigger. Why not? He was already engrossed enough in trying to prosecute this kid that he chased him down when told not to by the police... rationality was out of the window.

This is of course, all supposition. And the tragic thing is, that unless other people were there watching out of their window the entire time, or it happened in front of a bystander - we will never know what happened, because George Zimmerman killed the only other witness and party to the incident.

If a tree falls in the forest and no-one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? You could go to that forest, and the tree would still be felled.

If an unarmed teenager is shot in cold blood and nobody is around to see it, should the shooter get away with it by default? Or should there be an investigation? The kid is still dead, and he'd done nothing wrong.

Imagine someone chasing you and gunning you down at night, with nobody around, and getting away with it somehow. Its unconscienable. Zimmerman had no injuries, he followed someone when told not to, he shot a kid who was only armed with skittles.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

The law and the case law decides when people can use deadly force, and the bar isn't very high here. You can shoot someone dead in Florida, and in many states, for punching you, period.In Florida, you can PROBABLY shoot someone dead for TRYING to punch you and missing, with you merely suspecting that he is going to try to punch you again. While he's naked enough that you can be 100% certain that he doesn't have a weapon and that there are no weapons other than yours available.

This is not true. At all.

They only time use of a deadly weapon is permitted in Florida is when you can prove (1) you were not the aggressor, and (2) that you had a reasonable fear that grievous bodily harm was imminent to you or someone else.

Both are required for a justified use of a deadly weapon in Florida. Of course the lack of witnesses at the beginning of the confrontation could lead to him walking. Who knows.

 

[slidewinder]

This is not true. At all.

They only time use of a deadly weapon is permitted in Florida is when you can prove

This is entirely wrong. The person who fires the gun does not have to "prove" anything, and the law could not be more pointed in this regard.

I don't like it, but that is the law as it stands.

 

[Dude Abides]

This is not true. At all.

They only time use of a deadly weapon is permitted in Florida is when you can prove (1) you were not the aggressor, and (2) that you had a reasonable fear that grievous bodily harm was imminent to you or someone else.

Not quite. Even if you are the aggressor, you can use it if you have (2) above and also cannot retreat.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

^right right

This is entirely wrong. The person who fires the gun does not have to "prove" anything, and the law could not be more pointed in this regard.

I don't like it, but that is the law as it stands.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I live in Florida. I've gone through the CCW training and educational process. Hell, I just got my CCW license renewed. When you go to court, you have to prove your innocence or otherwise show you acted lawfully in your use of a deadly weapon.

 

[Dude Abides]

This is entirely wrong. The person who fires the gun does not have to "prove" anything, and the law could not be more pointed in this regard.

I don't like it, but that is the law as it stands.

Is it? The common-law rule is that self-defense is an affirmative defense, and the burden is on the defendant to show it by a preponderance of the evidence. Did the Florida statute change this?

 

[empty vessel]

Is it? The common-law rule is that self-defense is an affirmative defense, and the burden is on the defendant to show it by a preponderance of the evidence. Did the Florida statute change this?

In Florida, the burden is on the prosecution to disprove self-defense once invoked. This is, I believe, part and parcel of changes resulting from the successes of the vigilante movement. (I should add, this is what I've read on some informal websites; I haven't done any professional research.)

 

[Calcaneus]

So what's going to happen when Zimmerman goes to trial and he's acquitted of all charges?

I honestly do wonder. Things could go in so many directions if that happened.

 

[Dude Abides]

In Florida, the burden is on the prosecution to disprove self-defense once invoked. This is, I believe, part and parcel of changes resulting from the successes of the vigilante movement. (I should add, this is what I've read on some informal websites; I haven't done any professional research.)

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.032.html

There's an immunity from prosecution if the police don't have PC, but it doesn't say whether or how it shifts the burden at trial.

 

[slidewinder]

Is it? The common-law rule is that self-defense is an affirmative defense, and the burden is on the defendant to show it by a preponderance of the evidence. Did the Florida statute change this?

Common-pshaw. 776.032.

Edit, re: Dude, no, at trial he'd have to justify it.

 

[BattleMonkey]

This is entirely wrong. The person who fires the gun does not have to "prove" anything, and the law could not be more pointed in this regard.

I don't like it, but that is the law as it stands.

err you can't just kill someone and claim self defense. Not sure what you are trying to say with having to prove something, but you can't simply take a person's word for it. Any self defense shooting that happens without witnesses will be investigated with more than someones word. Of course your not obliged to put on a show or someone provide any proof.

 

[Dude Abides]

Common-pshaw. 776.032.

See my post above, though - the immunity from prosecution does not necessarily mean the burden changes at trial.

 

[Megidolaon]

Judging by all the mob hysteria and the rage and anger this case has generated, it seems the media has accomplished its goal to cause unrest and hostility in the black community and further racial tensions in society. They're exploiting a horrible tragedy for political gain and it's disgusting. People like Jesse Jackson. Yuck.

Trayvon's family deserves a full investigation. And Zimmerman is entitled to a fair trial and treatment until all the evidence is acquired. Period. The fact that there's a bounty on Z's head? Freaking ridiculous. People are being completely played like fools by the media in this case and letting their emotions be manipulated for a political agenda. Let the police conduct the investigation, let the family grieve, and Let Zimmerman get his due process and live with the fact that he took a life. NOBODY yet knows the FULL story.

All the anger and hatred between races this case has stirred up is exactly what they wanted to happen. They manufactured a racial controversy and are reaping the results. It's shameful and I doubt it's what Trayvon would have wanted. Sad, sad, sad.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Common-pshaw. 776.032.Edit, re: Dude, no, at trial he'd have to justify it.

Dat 776.041.

His team will have to prove/show that he was not the aggressor. As I already mentioned. If they fail to convince a judge of that, he will not get to invoke self-defense in the trial at all.

 

[slidewinder]

HE HAS TO BE TRIED THOUGH.

Edit: and you'd have to ask Dude, but I don't think HE has any kind of burden under 776.041; it'd be up to prosecution to argue and convince the jury that he was the aggressor, and the judge is not going to rule out the self-defense argument on that grounds.

 

[Dude Abides]

Dat 776.041.

His team will have to prove/show that he was not the aggressor. As I already mentioned. If they fail to convince a judge of that, he will not get to invoke self-defense in the trial at all.

..unless he can also show that he could not retreat at the time he shot. For instance, if he can somehow show (extremely unlikely) that the kid who he outweighed by 100 pounds somehow managed to get on top of him and was really working him over.

 

[BattleMonkey]

HE HAS TO BE TRIED THOUGH.

Actually it has to be proven first to a grand jury panel for indictment before it goes to an actual trial.

Saying you have justification is not enough, and in many cases has failed in claimed self defense shootings.

 

[DrForester]

Biggest bit is going to be that Zimmerman tracked and followed Martin. I don't see how he can justify self defense when he went out of his way to track the guy, even if Martin "threw the first punch", Martin was being chased by a guy with a gun, and I don't see how they could say martin started the altercation.

 

[soundscream]

Judging by all the mob hysteria and the rage and anger this case has generated, it seems the media has accomplished its goal to cause unrest and hostility in the black community and further racial tensions in society. They're exploiting a horrible tragedy for political gain and it's disgusting. People like Jesse Jackson. Yuck.

Trayvon's family deserves a full investigation. And Zimmerman is entitled to a fair trial and treatment until all the evidence is acquired. Period. The fact that there's a bounty on Z's head? Freaking ridiculous. People are being completely played like fools by the media in this case and letting their emotions be manipulated for a political agenda. Let the police conduct the investigation, let the family grieve, and Let Zimmerman get his due process and live with the fact that he took a life. NOBODY yet knows the FULL story.

All the anger and hatred between races this case has stirred up is exactly what they wanted to happen. They manufactured a racial controversy and are reaping the results. It's shameful and I doubt it's what Trayvon would have wanted. Sad, sad, sad.

What Travon would have wanted?

1. To be alive.

2. To have his killer arrested.

The media is the only thing that stopped the police from burying this. They had no intention of making an arrest or investigating this case.

 

[Dash27]

So now Zimmermans friend Joe Oliver is speaking on his behalf. He says they have info that (shocker) he cant talk about but it will come out in the grand jury. So, I'm gonna wait to hear what they say.

In this interview the woman says Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon with a gun, and Oliver says that is not the case. He also says it's NOT about stand your ground law. He says "at some point, someone was going to die. and it happened to be Trayvon tragically"

http://video.insider.foxnews.com/v/1530273889001/

 

[Stinkles]

You guys are so ready to judge Zimmerman, while ignoring the real villains: Hooded sweatshirts and Barack Hussein Obama. (Watched a lot of Fox News this morning).

 

[ErasureAcer]

I've just listened to the full tape of Zimmerman calling to hear what he says...coons or punks or whatever. People say it's at 2:22 but at that time all I hear is him responding "yeah" to a question. So like where is this remark in the tape because I didn't hear coons or punks?

With that said, he really should be put on trial and found guilty.

 

[soundscream]

So now Zimmermans friend Joe Oliver is speaking on his behalf. He says they have info that (shocker) he cant talk about but it will come out in the grand jury. So, I'm gonna wait to hear what they say.

In this interview the woman says Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon with a gun, and Oliver says that is not the case. He also says it's NOT about stand your ground law. He says "at some point, someone was going to die. and it happened to be Trayvon tragically"

http://video.insider.foxnews.com/v/1530273889001/

I love how he is calling the victim a potential murderer. And how would it be tragic if he was going to kill Zimmerman?

 

[Mr. Patch]

So now Zimmermans friend Joe Oliver is speaking on his behalf. He says they have info that (shocker) he cant talk about but it will come out in the grand jury. So, I'm gonna wait to hear what they say.

In this interview the woman says Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon with a gun, and Oliver says that is not the case. He also says it's NOT about stand your ground law. He says "at some point, someone was going to die. and it happened to be Trayvon tragically"

http://video.insider.foxnews.com/v/1530273889001/

Why the hell would someone even have to die in this situation?

 

[Dash27]

If they can show Zimmerman was chasing him (while armed no less) I dont much care what Trayvon did, Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter at the very least.

 

[Baconsammy]

Whenever you hear something about this story and it sounds unbelievably stupid, you just need to remember one thing - Florida.

 

[soundscream]

I've just listened to the full tape of Zimmerman calling to hear what he says...coons or punks or whatever. People say it's at 2:22 but at that time all I hear is him responding "yeah" to a question. So like where is this remark in the tape because I didn't hear coons or punks?

With that said, he really should be put on trial and found guilty.

2:19

 

[Dash27]

Why the hell would someone even have to die in this situation?

He also says something like "that could very well be the case" when asked if the gun went off accidentally.

To state the obvious though, all this dude knows is what Zimmerman and his family are telling him.

 

[Kosmo]

1) We need to hear all the facts, but the fact that Zimmerman was following Martin means that he is likely guilty, or at the very least, did something to provoke any alleged altercation.

2) How ingenuous is the media being in portraying Trayvon Martin? Why are weer only being shown pictures of him when he was 11 - 14? Wasn't he 17?

That being said, I'm sure these t-shirts will help calm tensions (can Hispanics be Crackers - serious question, I didn't know it was applied other than to whites?):

 

[Stinkles]

Zimmerman's lawyers and friends appear to have a lot of "crucial information that will radically change our view" that will come out at trial.

They should maybe just say some of this shit now if it's true. Because Zimmerman's life is also being ruined by their silence on these "amazing new developments."

 

[reggieandTFE]

Judging by all the mob hysteria and the rage and anger this case has generated, it seems the media has accomplished its goal to cause unrest and hostility in the black community and further racial tensions in society. They're exploiting a horrible tragedy for political gain and it's disgusting. People like Jesse Jackson. Yuck.

Trayvon's family deserves a full investigation. And Zimmerman is entitled to a fair trial and treatment until all the evidence is acquired. Period. The fact that there's a bounty on Z's head? Freaking ridiculous. People are being completely played like fools by the media in this case and letting their emotions be manipulated for a political agenda. Let the police conduct the investigation, let the family grieve, and Let Zimmerman get his due process and live with the fact that he took a life. NOBODY yet knows the FULL story.

All the anger and hatred between races this case has stirred up is exactly what they wanted to happen. They manufactured a racial controversy and are reaping the results. It's shameful and I doubt it's what Trayvon would have wanted. Sad, sad, sad.

It's not even worth replying to this shit after this long thread, but I'll play. The media ignored this shit for three weeks until Al Sharpton got on board. Three weeks. Self-pitying white people like you who feel they are the unjust victims of a reverse racist society hate Jesse Jackson & Al Sharpton without thought. Without Sharpton and others involvement, no one would be talking about Trayvon.

The police are the ones who should be investigated.

 

[dondarm]

People are being completely played like fools by the media in this case and letting their emotions be manipulated for a political agenda.

And what exactly would be the name of said political agenda?

 

[BattleMonkey]

Zimmerman's lawyers and friends appear to have a lot of "crucial information that will radically change our view" that will come out at trial.

They should maybe just say some of this shit now if it's true. Because Zimmerman's life is also being ruined by their silence on these "amazing new developments."

Lawyers put a clamp down on this information, they don't want potential witnesses from saying stuff to the media that can possibly come back to bite them by being twisted around or influencing people. They don't want one witnesses testimony to be taken by another opposing witness and worked around, it all has to be kept separate. There is always tons of info kept under wraps that no one will ever hear about till it goes to grand jury and if it does, at the actual trial.

 

[levious]

That being said, I'm sure these t-shirts will help calm tensions (can Hispanics be Crackers - serious question, I didn't know it was applied other than to whites?):

http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/zimmermanshirt.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]


Hispanic is an ethnicity. I am a white hispanic according to our labels in the US. Although I know that most whites don't consider me "white."

 

[DrForester]

If they can show Zimmerman was chasing him (while armed no less) I dont much care what Trayvon did, Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter at the very least.

Heard that his family is going to talk to the prosecutors today. I'm sure the subject of only going for Manslaughter will be brought up. Proving murder in this case will be very difficult, but manslaughter is probably much easier.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

If they can show Zimmerman was chasing him (while armed no less) I dont much care what Trayvon did, Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter at the very least.

This. WTF is wrong with people that they can't see this. I've been saying it and I'll say it again: You can't pursue someone minding their own fucking business not bothering no one and claim you're NOT the aggressor.

How this man didn't get arrested blows my fucking mind.

 

[akira28]

Zimmerman's lawyers and friends appear to have a lot of "crucial information that will radically change our view" that will come out at trial.

Trayvon was armed with a metal truncheon, and was found in possession of over the counter sugar supplements, with intent to distribute. And with his dying breath he made Zimmerman promise not to tell the media.

Heard that his family is going to talk to the prosecutors today. I'm sure the subject of only going for Manslaughter will be brought up. Proving murder in this case will be very difficult, but manslaughter is probably much easier.

I dunno how I feel about that one. I might want this guy to be known as a murderer.

 

[ffdgh]

how nice....fox thinks he could have stole the skittles and tea.

 

[ErasureAcer]

2:19

ahh thanks. It's like 2:16-2:17 on the video I'm watching. I can definitely hear something that starts with with an "F" and then another word that has "oooo". So yeah, I guess it could be F'ing Coons. I don't hear "punks" at at all or anything that sounds like it.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Trayvon's family deserves a full investigation.

Yes, and the issue is that the person who killed Travyon isn't even being charged within anything despite the fact that he admitted following travyon to the 911 dispatcher and even mentioned travyon fleeing at one point.

We know thta Zimmerman was following travyon, and that at some point travyon stopped walking home from the store and started fleeing a strange man pursuing him in the dark of night. And we know zimmerman shot Travyon dead.

An arrest basically means the police have probable cause to believe a crime may have been committed by an individual. Note that this doesn't mean the police need to know that a crime was committed, it means that the possibility has been established as well as a potential perpetrator.

Zimmerman should have been arrested at the scene of the crime under suspicion of manslaughter at the bare minimum.

the issue is that as of right now, the official police stance is that zimmerman isn't even a suspect, when whe know he's the perpetrator of ending travyon's life. The details of whether or not it was justifiable self defense is not for the police to decide, but the courts.

When you know for afact that Zimmerman stalked and killed Travyon, there's no way you can't arrest him for SOMETHING. This isn't even a matter of determining whether or not Zimmerman is a suspect. He's the perpetrator. This is known. Why has he not been formally charged with anything yet? Where is the due process?

 

[Kosmo]

Hispanic is an ethnicity. I am a white hispanic according to our labels in the US. Although I know that most whites don't consider me "white."

Point being, when racial tensions are stoked and "whites" are singled out, I assume Hispanics are not included in that group, as they were not responsible for many of the civil rights violations in our history.

 

[slidewinder]

That being said, I'm sure these t-shirts will help calm tensions

Why would you even post that? Is it some need to reassure yourself that OTHER PEOPLE are sometimes as utterly fucking stupid as you always are about everything remotely political? You're a fucking mess dude. You're a really, straight-up, no-bones-about-it shitty person whenever anything even slightly sends a tingle up your right-wing-dumbass bone. Fix yourself. You don't have to be crap.

 

[Leona Lewis]

Judging by all the mob hysteria and the rage and anger this case has generated, it seems the media has accomplished its goal to cause unrest and hostility in the black community and further racial tensions in society. They're exploiting a horrible tragedy for political gain and it's disgusting. People like Jesse Jackson. Yuck.

Trayvon's family deserves a full investigation. And Zimmerman is entitled to a fair trial and treatment until all the evidence is acquired. Period. The fact that there's a bounty on Z's head? Freaking ridiculous. People are being completely played like fools by the media in this case and letting their emotions be manipulated for a political agenda. Let the police conduct the investigation, let the family grieve, and Let Zimmerman get his due process and live with the fact that he took a life. NOBODY yet knows the FULL story.

All the anger and hatred between races this case has stirred up is exactly what they wanted to happen. They manufactured a racial controversy and are reaping the results. It's shameful and I doubt it's what Trayvon would have wanted. Sad, sad, sad.

You do realize the only reason this tragedy hasn't been swept under the rug is because of people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton? Despite their history of grandstanding and egotism, they're in the right here.

The fact that Trayvon was an African-American teenager is central to his death (and arguably to the heretofore botched investigation into it), so a discussion on race is not a superfluous wedge.

 

[travisbickle]

So now Zimmermans friend Joe Oliver is speaking on his behalf. He says they have info that (shocker) he cant talk about but it will come out in the grand jury. So, I'm gonna wait to hear what they say.

In this interview the woman says Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon with a gun, and Oliver says that is not the case. He also says it's NOT about stand your ground law. He says "at some point, someone was going to die. and it happened to be Trayvon tragically"

http://video.insider.foxnews.com/v/1530273889001/

This line is crazy, we would have heard something if it was kill or be killed.

The reality is more : He says "at some point, someone was going to die. and it wasn't going to be the guy holding the gun, was it?"[/B]