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Nintendo shares plunge 6% by Monday close after trading as low as -18%

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QaaQer

Member
It's nothing I'd recommend anyone doing unless you're just having fun, using money you don't need. It's nothing you'd want to put your retirement savings in. Save that for the index funds or vanguard target funds.

naw, stuff the mattress with Krugerrands.
 

Rhindle

Member
6% is a really small drop given how terrible their operating results are. Everyone seems to be betting on a major strategy shift, most likely to iOS/Android.

If Iwata doesn't announce anything concrete on the 30th, the stock is going to collapse.
 
I don't really get the idea that Nintendo will need to downsize software development as a counter-argument to any major change in the way they operate, whether that's releasing games for other platforms or consolidating onto a single platform.

They'll have to downsize software development regardless if they do nothing and reach a situation where their platforms don't sell enough to make that software development viable?
Still, we all know big changes are coming.
I'm still relatively skeptical that Iwata's PR over the weekend wasn't just attempt to soothe the market after dumping the bad news on Friday in hope that it would lessen the negative impact.
 

vctor182

Member
Assuming they get stock, I'm almost certain that the PS4 will be ahead of the Wii U in Japan within half a year.

I'm not sure about that. It seems Japan likes its consoles/handhelds backwards compatible, the DS, Wii had them and were the leaders while the PS3 (it had it initially but lost it very soon) and PSP Go did not. Now the 3DS is the leader with the same feature and the Vita which does not have it is losing. If the launch software lineup for the PS4 is not strong the it will take more than half a year to pass Wii U
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
I'm still relatively skeptical that Iwata's PR over the weekend wasn't just attempt to soothe the market after dumping the bad news on Friday in hope that it would lessen the negative impact.

They're spending big amounts in R&D, even more than what forecasted. They've also unified home and consoles R&D, still hiring many people and they're expanding NERD in France. There definitively IS something going on.
 

vinnygambini

Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
-2.5% not a huge drop, but a drop nonetheless. Meeting is very important as it will set the tone for the stock going forward.
 

Snakeyes

Member
They're spending big amounts in R&D, even more than what forecasted. They've also unified home and consoles R&D, still hiring many people and they're expanding NERD in France. There definitively IS something going on.
Iwata is investing in a space colony.
 

AzaK

Member
Is this the Nintendoomed thread of the day?

Seeing it posted on a Japanese blog that Nintendo made the front page of the Sankei Shimbun today.



Choice lines include:
"Nintendo Shock"
"Wii U Ignored by Gamers Overseas"
"Failure to utilize online features"
"Specs that are a generation behind" -- "on the same level as PS3"

The article concludes:
"The PS4 will be released in Japan on the 22nd of next month. It won't be easy for Nintendo to reverse the tide of "PS4 for gamers, smartphones for casuals."

Shit, I forgot that PS4 wasn't even in Japan yet. It will be interesting to see how that is received given the preference for handhelds there.
 
They're spending big amounts in R&D, even more than what forecasted. They've also unified home and consoles R&D, still hiring many people and they're expanding NERD in France. There definitively IS something going on.
I was thinking more along the lines of any changes in their approach to mobile, but as people are noting now they've already ruled out any purpose-built game software for mobile platforms, and even legacy software seems a no-go. Or any other substantial change to their business strategy. But overall, the comments just seem like "We need to do better, and we will." platitudes .

The line about pricing is sort of interesting, but I can't see how any changes to that will really fix the underlying issue - iOS and Android aren't going anyway.

I don't know whether whatever mystery contraption is in the works, and if that will amount to some solution to their issues. It could just be that they're accelerating development of a successor in light of the reality that this will be a very short cycle for them.
 

wrowa

Member
I'm still relatively skeptical that Iwata's PR over the weekend wasn't just attempt to soothe the market after dumping the bad news on Friday in hope that it would lessen the negative impact.

What would be the point of that? The only reason Nintendo's shares recovered today, is due to the expectations that something big is going to happen (with regards to the smartphone market). All eyes are on the 30th now. If Iwata doesn't deliver anything during the strategy meeting, the stock is going to drop a lot.
 
hell naw

Pokemon to Sony who gives it to SOE who finally makes the mmo we've all been waiting for. Zelda would be better in the hands of Naughty Dog, there is no Nintendo IP I'd give to an MS exclusive dev to be honest, split them between Sony and PC development

Yeah especially after what happened to Rare. Then again, Sony could end up closing the studio that makes whatever, due to poor sales...etc.
 

Snakeyes

Member
Finally someone put this in a very well, articulated post! A few things I would add are that theoretically, you could use a handheld in conjunction with the console in the same manner you use the gamepad on Wii U or stream MP content w/DS/3DS. In other words, one game (ex. Mario Kart) can be do local multiplayer across multiple devices at the same time like you can on DS/3DS. Another example would be asymmetrical multiplayer (NSMBU) where a completely different type of gameplay could be added into the mix if someone had a handheld and console. Also, as far as gamesaves go, cloud saves would be nice and should be included, but there's no reason the devices shouldn't be able to perform updates with each other locally. In other words, an internet connection wouldn't be a requirement for transferring saves from one device to another. A proper account system would be ideal as well as the option for physical media. One last feature that is paramount is the architecture itself. If Nintendo did this right, all of these games would be backwards compatible on future systems. That means they don't have to constantly port their back catalog each time they come out with a new system which in theory should increase their sales.
That too. They'll want to give people multiple reasons to buy as many Nintendo platforms as possible.

There are still a few kinks that need to be worked out, like physical media to maintain a retail presence. Speaking of backwards compatibility, they would need to find a way to phase out the weaker platforms without confusing or pissing off the consumer.
 
What would be the point of that? The only reason Nintendo's shares recovered today, is due to the expectations that something big is going to happen (with regards to the smartphone market). All eyes are on the 30th now. If Iwata doesn't deliver anything during the strategy meeting, the stock is going to drop a lot.
I don't know, the keep calm and carry on mantra just seems to have been Iwata's MO for so long it just leaves me wholly skeptical he's prepared to do anything drastic. It was pointed out by another that part of the recovery was probably driven by media misinterpretation about Mario on smartphones - which has already been scuttled.

If they aren't going to be releasing proper software from their franchises for smartdevices, then what is the major shift in their approach to mobile?
Nintendo phone? Nintendo tablet? I just don't see it.

It just seems like they're going to try to use iOS and Android more with companion apps.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Iwata talked about business structure, necessity of understanding trends better, Premium model not working as before AND about approaching more mobile as an help for their console. Mobile wasn't the only thing he mentioned, far from it.

@shinra: What I was referring to were things even started back in early 2013, like the R&D reorganisation, as well as PUX and Dwango's partecipations, etc.
 

tronic307

Member
I'm not talking about an Android device. They've got their own OS in the works for their next generation of systems. I'm referring to a proper continuation of their portable line.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. Have we ruled out the possibility that the UI for Nextendo might be based on Android? IIRC the Wii's System Menu was Opera-based; if a webpage in the settings menu became missing or corrupted, you had a brick with an Opera error message in place of the initial warning screen.
 
I don't know, the keep calm and carry on mantra just seems to have been Iwata's MO for so long it just leaves me wholly skeptical he's prepared to do anything drastic. It was pointed out by another that part of the recovery was probably driven by media misinterpretation about Mario on smartphones - which has already been scuttled.

If they aren't going to be releasing proper software from their franchises for smartdevices, then what is the major shift in their approach to mobile?
Nintendo phone? Nintendo tablet? I just don't see it.

It just seems like they're going to try to use iOS and Android more with companion apps.

Well, a way for management to convince people to side with their corporate strategy is to appear as calm and confident as possible at all times. Iwata is a very public figure, and his actions, mannerisms, and words are all studied and considered...so he has to maintain impeccable public appearances.
 

Effect

Member
Is this the Nintendoomed thread of the day?

Seeing it posted on a Japanese blog that Nintendo made the front page of the Sankei Shimbun today.



Choice lines include:
"Nintendo Shock"
"Wii U Ignored by Gamers Overseas"
"Failure to utilize online features"
"Specs that are a generation behind" -- "on the same level as PS3"

The article concludes:

The more stuff like this is out there the better it is I feel. This way Nintendo can not ignore it, can not be oblivious to it, can not keep talking and not change how they act. The more bad news that comes out the more likely they will be forced to change how they do things and address the problems they have and have let fester for over a decade.
 

AzaK

Member
What would be the point of that? The only reason Nintendo's shares recovered today, is due to the expectations that something big is going to happen (with regards to the smartphone market). All eyes are on the 30th now. If Iwata doesn't deliver anything during the strategy meeting, the stock is going to drop a lot.

He'd do that because that's what he has done for years. He's been saying one thing (That things will be sorted out) and doing another (Failing to sort them out) for a very long time now.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
I was thinking more along the lines of any changes in their approach to mobile, but as people are noting now they've already ruled out any purpose-built game software for mobile platforms, and even legacy software seems a no-go. Or any other substantial change to their business strategy. But overall, the comments just seem like "We need to do better, and we will." platitudes .

The line about pricing is sort of interesting, but I can't see how any changes to that will really fix the underlying issue - iOS and Android aren't going anyway.

I don't know whether whatever mystery contraption is in the works, and if that will amount to some solution to their issues. It could just be that they're accelerating development of a successor in light of the reality that this will be a very short cycle for them.

I think there are a lot of steps not involving mobile Nintendo could take that could help things.
 

Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
If I were Nintendo I'd buy a lot of shares from my own stock, like crazy.

I don't see how giving up the hardware side from the realm that is working(handhelds), makes any sense at all. I could see them changing the landscape on Wii U, but shifting from handhelds to mobile phones? When handheld gaming is the one thing still paying off. Makes no sense.

This industry has too much of people jumping the bandwagon.
 

Eteric Rice

Member
If I were Nintendo I'd buy a lot of shares from my own stock, like crazy.

I don't see how giving up the hardware side from the realm that is working(handhelds), makes any sense at all. I could see them changing the landscape on Wii U, but shifting from handhelds to mobile phones? When handheld gaming is the one thing still paying off. Makes no sense.

This industry has too much of people jumping the bandwagon.

Same, I'd buy them up as well.

And while their handheld market has declined, it's still doing rather well. I expect, eventually, their handhelds will turn into something akin to tablets. Unless they do something completely different.

I wouldn't mind seeing them release a $49.99 handheld that did nothing but GB, GBA, and SNES games. Or a little console that does that. Hell, third party companies already do it, so whats to lose?
 
I'm still relatively skeptical that Iwata's PR over the weekend wasn't just attempt to soothe the market after dumping the bad news on Friday in hope that it would lessen the negative impact.

Skepticism is more than warranted, but hey, it's only a week and a half away. I can spare him a smidgen of benefit of the doubt.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
Man they should really experiment with F2P on 3DS AND Wii U. Stop worrying about "high" production standards and just make cheap, simple looking games at 1080p, make them F2P and push the marketing so people are aware of the new direction.
 

The Giant

Banned
Man they should really experiment with F2P on 3DS AND Wii U. Stop worrying about "high" production standards and just make cheap, simple looking games at 1080p, make them F2P and push the marketing so people are aware of the new direction.

Nintendo already released a f2p game on 3ds. Steel Diver SubWars is their 2nd f2p.
 

Darmik

Member
Man they should really experiment with F2P on 3DS AND Wii U. Stop worrying about "high" production standards and just make cheap, simple looking games at 1080p, make them F2P and push the marketing so people are aware of the new direction.

They've dabbled into this a bit with Wii Sports U and Karaoke U. Even stuff like the Wii Fit Meter unlocking the entire Wii Fit U game is a pretty good step to take. I hope they continue to look into similar avenues for some of their games in the future.
 

CCIE

Banned
As much as it pains me, Nintendo should go third party. They simply cannot compete with corrupt corporations like MS and Sony.
 

Terrell

Member
I don't know whether whatever mystery contraption is in the works, and if that will amount to some solution to their issues. It could just be that they're accelerating development of a successor in light of the reality that this will be a very short cycle for them.
If I were to guess, that's probably what they're doing.
I love my Wii U, but trying to fix its problem right now is like throwing good money on a fire. And maybe Iwata knows that and is hoping to ride this out and mitigate as much of the damage as possible without doing anything that would be considered an over-compensation with minimal effect on their market position.
 
As much as it pains me, Nintendo should go third party. They simply cannot compete with corrupt corporations like MS and Sony.

What are those two doing that are holding Nintendo back?

I'd wager that less than 1% of Nintendo's issues are due to those two. Hell, I'd give a bigger percentage to publishers and developers. Most of this is on them.

If Nintendo can get their heads out of their asses, bring on the tools and talent that will allow them to tackle a sustainable and expansive online ecosystem, and concede to the fact that a green-ish system with next to no support due to being technically sub-standard is not the best of interest to the longevity of their company, than they can pull things around and start getting the mindshare and support back.

Why dropping everything is a good idea I can never understand.
 
Is this the Nintendoomed thread of the day?

Seeing it posted on a Japanese blog that Nintendo made the front page of the Sankei Shimbun today.



Choice lines include:
"Nintendo Shock"
"Wii U Ignored by Gamers Overseas"
"Failure to utilize online features"
"Specs that are a generation behind" -- "on the same level as PS3"

The article concludes:

Its being ignored by Japanese gamers as well lol
 

Jamix012

Member
Assuming they get stock, I'm almost certain that the PS4 will be ahead of the Wii U in Japan within half a year.

I don't even know if the PS4 will catch on at all in Japan. It's not completely unreasonable to argue that it wouldn't EVER catch the Wii U in Japan. That having been said I personally think it probably will...but give it a year or more.
 
I don't even know if the PS4 will catch on at all in Japan. It's not completely unreasonable to argue that it wouldn't EVER catch the Wii U in Japan. That having been said I personally think it probably will...but give it a year or more.

lol_george_takei.gif


Yes it is lol.

By the end of the 3 years PS3 was at 4.4 million iirc. WiiU would be lucky to do 1 million for 3 years in a row so even the PS3 would have caught up. Its that much of a failure.
 

cafemomo

Member
I don't even know if the PS4 will catch on at all in Japan. It's not completely unreasonable to argue that it wouldn't EVER catch the Wii U in Japan. That having been said I personally think it probably will...but give it a year or more.

the PS4 already has the backing of the major Japanese 3rd party devs.

With the likes of FF, Yakuza, Musuo, etc on it it's bound to catch on.
It will be more successful than the WiiU, but it won't be as successful as the PS3.
 

Jamix012

Member
lol_george_takei.gif


Yes it is lol.

By the end of the 3 years PS3 was at 4.4 million iirc. WiiU would be lucky to do 1 million for 3 years in a row so even the PS3 would have caught up. Its that much of a failure.

No it's really not. Consoles are very dead in Japan and the PS4's lineup doesn't look to inspire anything. Obviously the PS4 is thus far a huge hit worldwide, but there's no guarantee at all that it'll do even PS3 numbers in Japan. They've been declining for generations and the games that propelled the PS3 have since largely westernised or lost a lot of popularity. If it does pass the Wii U (which yeah, it probably will eventually) I doubt it'd reach PS3 numbers.

the PS4 already has the backing of the major Japanese 3rd party devs.

With the likes of FF, Yakuza, Musuo, etc on it it's bound to catch on.
It will be more successful than the WiiU, but it won't be as successful as the PS3.

The slated Yakuza is a port and Musuo isn't exactly a hot seller. We don't know when FF XV will release and when it does it'd doubtful that it'll hit FF13 numbers since even you admitted recently that FF is not what it used to be. Consider the fact that no of the games the PS4 could possibly have, bar a surprise dragon quest or an FF will have the selling power of NSMBU, which'll be a million seller. Hell, I doubt PS4 will have more than 2 games that outsell Wii U's Smash. PS4 "reviving" Japanese console gaming is a joke. Will it do better than the Wii U? Probably. But it's not certain.
 
I have my reservations as to how successful nintendo would even be if they moved to mobile. I could see some success if they do F2P but I doubt they will experience much success charging the sort of money they are used to for software. Mobile is a platform that has devalued the worth of software to where anything beyond $10 is an extremely hard sell and makes it's money from F2P "whales" with the occasional smash success.

No it's really not. Consoles are very dead in Japan and the PS4's lineup doesn't look to inspire anything. Obviously the PS4 is thus far a huge hit worldwide, but there's no guarantee at all that it'll do even PS3 numbers in Japan. They've been declining for generations and the games that propelled the PS3 have since largely westernised or lost a lot of popularity. If it does pass the Wii U (which yeah, it probably will eventually) I doubt it'd reach PS3 numbers.

It doesn't have to do ps3 numbers to easily outsell the wii u. It will probably outsell Wii U lifetime by the end of the year if even that long.
 
No it's really not. Consoles are very dead in Japan and the PS4's lineup doesn't look to inspire anything. Obviously the PS4 is thus far a huge hit worldwide, but there's no guarantee at all that it'll do even PS3 numbers in Japan. They've been declining for generations and the games that propelled the PS3 have since largely westernised or lost a lot of popularity. If it does pass the Wii U (which yeah, it probably will eventually) I doubt it'd reach PS3 numbers.

No WiiU is very dead in Japan. Console industry may be dying, just like the handheld industry but in no way is it dead to the extent that the WiiU will become the best selling console in Japan.

Dude the PS3's lineup was even worse, was priced nearly twice as expensive, had more competition from the Wii and it still would of outsold the WiiU.

The PS4 has none of those problems. Weren't you the guy who said PS4 would be lucky to do 5 million in Japan lol. Oh is it going to be a fun year.

Fixed for exactly what people said about Wii U.

lol no in that thread people were touting a MH3 port and a DQ MMO port as massive system sellers.
 

Jamix012

Member
No WiiU is very dead in Japan. Console industry may be dying, just like the handheld industry but in no way is it dead to the extent that the WiiU will become the best selling console in Japan.

Dude the PS3's lineup was even worse, was priced nearly twice as expensive, had more competition from the Wii and it still would of outsold the WiiU.

The PS4 has none of those problems. Weren't you the guy who said PS4 would be lucky to do 5 million in Japan lol. Oh is it going to be a fun year.

I don't remember saying the bolded at all. If I had to peg a number on the PS4 right now I'd probably point to about 5.5-8 million. I don't think I ever put a concrete number on PS4 (if i ever did it'd probably be with a caveat that we need to hear more before I decide on a prediction and such a prediction would have been made prior to most of the announced games.)
The PS3's lineup may have been initially worse but I'd be willing to put money that PS4 RE, FF and MGS don't reach PS3 numbers in JP and that's a huge issue for sales.
The PS4 may not have Wii competition, but in an age when handhelds can pull off a lot of the lower level console games of last generation, it certainly has a lot of competition from handhelds. Plus it's not pushing any sort of new media format like the PS3. Plus consoles are declining each generation.
There's not a chance it'll outsell PS3. AGAIN it'll probably outsell Wii U, but I think it's a little ridiculous to assume that's a given.

lol no in that thread people were touting a MH3 port and a DQ MMO port as massive system sellers.

And in this thread people are touting a Yakuza port as a massive system seller.

Edit: Now that I think about it I'm like 99% sure a 5 million number I predicted was attached to the Vita. Not the PS4.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Instead there's a FF MMO and a Yakuza port.

Also a new Metal Gear that looks amazing
Also a new Final Fantasy that looks amazing
Also a new Kingdom Hearts that looks amazing...

those three games alone are infinitely more appealing to the Japanese market than anything the Wii U has to offer.
 

aza

Member
Have Nintendo announced the platform the Steel Diver F2P game is headed towards? What are the chances of that game being their entrance into the mobile space?
 

Sandfox

Member
Instead there's a FF MMO and a Yakuza port.

You're forgetting about the year late Musou port being mentioned. The only big sellers the PS4 has announced is FFXV and KH which I expect to do well but fail to reach a million and they aren't coming out any time soon. That being said, the PS4 will do decent in Japan.
 
Also a new Metal Gear that looks amazing
Also a new Final Fantasy that looks amazing
Also a new Kingdom Hearts that looks amazing...

those three games alone are infinitely more appealing to the Japanese market than anything the Wii U has to offer.

Metal Gear is coming to PS3 as well, iirc.

The other two are at least a year away. The PS4 launch line-up is pretty bad in Japan.

That being said, the PS4 will do decent in Japan.

I expect it to do well, yes.
 

cafemomo

Member
PS4 "reviving" Japanese console gaming is a joke. Will it do better than the Wii U? Probably. But it's not certain.

I will admit I am a wee bit skeptical of the PS4 reviving the console scene. But out of the two major consoles, the PS4 has more of a chance of reviving the scene than the WiiU.
If Sony plays their cards right & if JP 3rd party devs get their act together (and it seems like they actually are), then the PS4 will succeed in that mission.
But the people expecting it will be another PS2 era will be really disappointed.
 
I don't remember saying the bolded at all. If I had to peg a number on the PS4 right now I'd probably point to about 5.5-8 million. I don't think I ever put a concrete number on PS4 (if i ever did it'd probably be with a caveat that we need to hear more before I decide on a prediction and such a prediction would have been made prior to most of the announced games.)
The PS3's lineup may have been initially worse but I'd be willing to put money that PS4 RE, FF and MGS don't reach PS3 numbers in JP and that's a huge issue for sales.
The PS4 may not have Wii competition, but in an age when handhelds can pull off a lot of the lower level console games of last generation, it certainly has a lot of competition from handhelds. Plus it's not pushing any sort of new media format like the PS3. Plus consoles are declining each generation.
There's not a chance it'll outsell PS3. AGAIN it'll probably outsell Wii U, but I think it's a little ridiculous to assume that's a given.



And in this thread people are touting a Yakuza port as a massive system seller.

Edit: Now that I think about it I'm like 99% sure a 5 million number I predicted was attached to the Vita. Not the PS4.

You sound quite silly with this console decline mantra when the decline from PS2/GC gen to PS3/Wii gen is like 3 million. Unlike the handheld sector which has declined by more than 50%.

Instead there's a FF MMO and a Yakuza port.

Your right except notice how no one is touting them as massive system sellers that will ensure PS4 will dominate Japan. No the biggest reason people think PS4 will do well is due to the inevitable third party support that has been present on every playstation home console.
 
Your right except notice how no one is touting them as massive system sellers that will ensure PS4 will dominate Japan. No the biggest reason people think PS4 will do well is due to the inevitable third party support that has been present on every playstation home console.

Well, I must have misinterpreted suppadoopa when they said

With the likes of FF, Yakuza, Musuo, etc on it it's bound to catch on.
 

cafemomo

Member
Well, I must have misinterpreted suppadoopa when they said

I should have worded what I said better.

I also said it already has the promise of Japanese support from the the likes of Square, Capcom, etc..
add that with well established IPs like FF, etc.. then the PS4 will catch on with the public and not flounder like the WiiU is currently doing.

But it's never gonna reach PS3 #s.
 
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