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17 months after launch, Xbox Series X/S is on track to outsell Xbox 360

Ozriel

M$FT
Why? I keep seeing this and it’s starting to become a trend here. As soon as context is added that contradicts the cheerleading we have to rush to close the thread. It shouldn’t have been made to begin with and none of the first few posts had an issue with trying to brag. The word momentum appeared a few times and it turns out the Xbox one was omitted for a reason. Now that it’s being pointed out it has to close though.

He’s clearly calling out senseless console warring in the thread. On both sides. I think that’s a reasonable thing to say. No freaking idea why you’re eagerly defending console warz.

Nothing wrong with the thread being made. The headline - series x/s outselling the 360 at the same stage - itself seems to be correct.
 

anthony2690

Banned
The media was still totally on the Xbox One side at launch due to the 360 being the big console the previous generation and that console bringing in the most ad money. Sites like Polygon were spreading PS4 FUD in their launch streams, like claiming the PS4 couldn’t use a remote control and grandma would want an Xbox more due to that.
I think we must live in completely different time lines , everyone was tearing Xbox a new one...
 

ManaByte

Member
I think we must live in completely different time lines , everyone was tearing Xbox a new one...
Not at the launch streams. The media didn’t catch on to the backlash until they got blasted for their BS and the whole “Resolutiongste” that people now pretend never happened. Hell IGN was running defense for the 720p games claiming the human eye couldn’t even see 1080p.
 

anthony2690

Banned
Not at the launch streams. The media didn’t catch on to the backlash until they got blasted for their BS and the whole “Resolutiongste” that people now pretend never happened. Hell IGN was running defense for the 720p games claiming the human eye couldn’t even see 1080p.
I never watched any streams, I just the articles tearing Xbox a new one haha
 

Ozriel

M$FT
The media was still totally on the Xbox One side at launch due to the 360 being the big console the previous generation and that console bringing in the most ad money. Sites like Polygon were spreading PS4 FUD in their launch streams, like claiming the PS4 couldn’t use a remote control and grandma would want an Xbox more due to that.

At launch? That’s not how I remember it at all. By E3 and the $399 bombshell, Media was firmly pro PS4

I mean, we had this

VZELyYd.jpg
 

Mr Moose

Member
Not at the launch streams. The media didn’t catch on to the backlash until they got blasted for their BS and the whole “Resolutiongste” that people now pretend never happened. Hell IGN was running defense for the 720p games claiming the human eye couldn’t even see 1080p.
I remember this lmao.
I never watched any streams, I just the articles tearing Xbox a new one haha
 
Based on recent events that reminded me what I already know.



But if you would like to correct Zhuge by explaining how their methods have changed over the years to ensure that their worldwide sales numbers are accurate then please do.

What is there to correct? As Jeff Grubb and the new site administrator admitted they are imperfect. I'll return to my earlier point if there is a more accurate site I'm more than willing to use their numbers.

VGChartz is implying the X Series is outselling the 360 for this time in the respective generation. Unless we can prove that is inaccurate it's safe to assume they can be right as much as wrong.
 
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FrankWza

Gold Member
You cant honestly tell me that 80% or even 60% of the posts in this thread are insightful or add value. The real trend is, most threads are becoming unbearable to read and are not useful or entertaining at all. The mods had it under control for a while but it looks like the inmates are taking control of the asylum again.
No. Just seems like the timing of wanting threads closed is always when the op and subject gets exposed.
He’s clearly calling out senseless console warring in the thread. On both sides. I think that’s a reasonable thing to say. No freaking idea why you’re eagerly defending console warz.

Nothing wrong with the thread being made. The headline - series x/s outselling the 360 at the same stage - itself seems to be correct.
The first few posts came in bragging. They were challenged and a bunch of “usual suspects” posts were made. Now we’ve established that the xboxone also paced similarly. So, the tweet, reply and thread are based, once again when it comes to ms pr, as a half truth. Let the thread go now that some context has finally been added. If it was going to be closed it should have been closed right away. As far as warring, you’re the one posting with an alt account you needed to create so…
 
Of course it is, we knew this already. It's their numbers that are questionable.

Without specifics their numbers are just as valid as any other estimate. Unless I'm wrong they have never claimed to be 100% accurate. They did get a bit of a co-sign by Greenberg even if their numbers aren't perfect. As we know he also had no problem calling them out when they were wrong.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Without specifics their numbers are just as valid as any other estimate. Unless I'm wrong they have never claimed to be 100% accurate. They did get a bit of a co-sign by Greenberg even if their numbers aren't perfect. As we know he also had no problem calling them out when they were wrong.
Greenberg is a bellend. We know it's doing better than the 360 without shitty VGChartz telling us, they should never be used as any type of source. Pretty sure I've seen Sony using them as one before, and its stupid, don't validate them as some type of official source, those are guesstimates. They say they can be off by 10%.
It's unfortunate MicroSoft stopped providing numbers years ago, it doesn't matter if they aren't "winning".
 

Kokoloko85

Member
And then sales slowed. Because everyone said it was games that mattered.

If Xbox Series is selling this well BEFORE Microsoft’s 30 studios are at full steam, then it’s clear there’s a whole lot of momentum.

But you already knew that

Games do matter I guess and Xbox hadnt released its best titles yet.

Considering Halo 5, Gears 4, the Forza’s and Tomb Raider timed exclusive hadnt come out yet till after the 17 months and 13 million sales
 
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Topher

Gold Member
What is there to correct? As Jeff Grubb and the new site administrator admitted they are imperfect. I'll return to my earlier point if there is a more accurate site I'm more than willing to use their numbers.

VGChartz is implying the X Series is outselling the 360 for this time in the respective generation. Unless we can prove that is inaccurate it's safe to assume they can be right as much as wrong.

Nah, it is up to VGChartz to prove their methods and validate their data. Until they do, I'll continue to dismiss their guesses. Obviously you are free do what you want.
 

mejin

Member
Greenberg is a bellend. We know it's doing better than the 360 without shitty VGChartz telling us, they should never be used as any type of source. Pretty sure I've seen Sony using them as one before, and its stupid, don't validate them as some type of official source, those are guesstimates. They say they can be off by 10%.
It's unfortunate MicroSoft stopped providing numbers years ago, it doesn't matter if they aren't "winning".

MS is using VGChartz cause they probably have higher numbers than the real numbers MS has.
 

Mr Moose

Member
MS is using VGChartz cause they probably have higher numbers than the real numbers MS has.
Could be, but it doesn't matter much because it is ahead of 360 anyway so it's true to that extent. 12M shipped from January.
Xbox One was ahead of 360 also, so it doesn't mean anything really, the problem is the source of the numbers. Chartz should never be used as a serious source. And Greenberg is a bellend.
 
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Ozriel

M$FT
Games do matter I guess and Xbox hadnt released its best titles yet.

Considering Halo 5, Gears 4, the Forza’s and Tomb Raider timed exclusive hadnt come out yet till after the 17 months and 13 million sales

Yeah, you're going to compare the output of 6 first party studios to 30 first party studios + Activision + Gamepass.

Curious how you ran that through your mind before posting.
 

Codes 208

Member
Games do matter I guess and Xbox hadnt released its best titles yet.

Considering Halo 5, Gears 4, the Forza’s and Tomb Raider timed exclusive hadnt come out yet till after the 17 months and 13 million sales
We did however get titanfall, dead rising 3, halo MCC, sunset overdrive, forza 5 andforza horizon 2 within that time period and those games were some of the best exclusives on the console

Hell, MCC is still the best halo title under 343i’s repertoire
 

Mr Moose

Member
Did anyone say they were?

The conversation has been about the generation. Sales potential of the Xbox Series consoles up to end generation.

Unless you expect This gen to end in 2022?
I didn't check the full conversation, my bad. Though Acti will still put games on other platforms so I don't know if that will boost Series sales all that much.
 
I think they'll do great even once supply has normalized for both Xbox and PS5, the US and UK splits are going to surprise some people by generations end, IMO.

I don't think it'll surprise that many if Xbox matches PS sales in US & UK, tbh, because they've done that before. But if someone's thinking they're going to blow PS out in those areas, that's like a near 0% probability of happening unless Sony makes a series of mistakes so catastrophic in those markets they piss off well over half their normal customers in them.

Them not doing Day-and-Date on their sub service like GamePass does, or not having Quick Resume, are nowhere near big enough "mistakes" (really depends on how you look at them, to think if they're even mistakes in the first place simply for not doing them) to cause that scenario to happen, and they've got enough big AAA games both 1P and 3P coming exclusively that should at the very least see them do as well in US & UK as PS4 did, barring any continued severe shortages.

So really if anything both PS and Xbox stand to gain share in those markets, it's just that due to possible ceilings of sizes of those markets, Xbox at least theoretically stands to have more growth potential in those markets (when you compare their performance in those markets with XBO). It's kind of like how in Japan they could say they have a 500% weekly increase in sales compared to XBO, but considering how terrible XBO sold in that region a 500% increase isn't that much.

It's different for US & UK because MS's always done at least decent in those markets even with OG Xbox & XBO. So relative to PlayStation, Xbox has more growth potential coming off XBO compared to the possible max size of console gaming in those two regions. But TBH I think they have a lot more to do in order to have any sort of crack of hitting 360's biggest numbers in those markets consistently, a few early months of what's normally the slowest months of the year for console sales doesn't really say anything for long-term sales outlooks.

I used to watch his content, and he said stuff like the PS5 won't be capable of doing ray-tracing like Xbox Series X, instead PS5 would rely on SSR.
He also has a console warrior attitude, calling horizon, Forgotten West and downplaying games like God of War, while praison Crackdown 3.

That's when I stopped watching his crap and figured he was just an Xbox console warrior pretending to be a neutral.

The amount of Xbox content creators and fans, Soulsborne hardcore fans too for that matter, that were dogging HFW (using a multiplat release no less to do so) and downplaying Ragnarok as "DLC" was/is pretty toxic. In the case of the former, especially considering how a lot of claims were either outdated or just straight-up false.

You can tell that for some of them it was very personal. Embarrassing. But so too were PlayStation content creators and fans trying to dogwalk FH5 and Flight Sim, calling FH5 a DLC map and Flight Sim a tech demo. It's been childish on both sides the past 7-8 months, sadly.

At the very moment though I'd say it's been particularly toxic from some of the more infamous Xbox content creators. Not even Colt, actually, I usually just see them doing free advertising for XGS games and hyping up RDNA2 features like they're gamechangers (which, they could be, but not the way they hype them up to be). But some of the other content creators? Very regular downplaying/dismissiveness, and very much annoying.

And then sales slowed. Because everyone said it was games that mattered.

If Xbox Series is selling this well BEFORE Microsoft’s 30 studios are at full steam, then it’s clear there’s a whole lot of momentum.

But you already knew that

That's the crazy thing tho; XBO arguably had the better lineup for the first year or so when you include exclusives. Ryse, Forza Horizon 2, Dead Rising 4, Killer Instinct reboot etc. Sony had to lean in on games like Resogun (essentially an indie) and while ShadowFall was (hell, still IS) a graphical powerhouse the actual gameplay didn't resonate that much. And Knack...well, it was Knack.

Driveclub coming out a mess didn't help, either. Really 1P AAA for PS4 was spotty for the first year or so aside Second Son. Then The Order but really it's when Bloodborne dropped when they started hitting it out the park regularly with their 1P AAA on PS4, and that was 2015. Right around the time XBO was petering out in terms of its own 1P AAA offerings oddly enough (outside of the usual Forza releases).

Tho Xbox did keep doing pretty well with AA 1P games like Cuphead and Ori.
 
Not at the launch streams. The media didn’t catch on to the backlash until they got blasted for their BS and the whole “Resolutiongste” that people now pretend never happened. Hell IGN was running defense for the 720p games claiming the human eye couldn’t even see 1080p.
This is some alt reality bullshit. The media RIGHTLY ripped the Xbone a new one far & wide during and forever after the launch window. It was one of the if not THE worst launch in history & everyone dog piled. It’s literally taught in biz courses how NOT to launch a tech product & a perfect example of losing the media narrative before the product even hit store shelves with everyone basically shitting on it for being more expensive, less powerful, trying to push online only, Kinect being derided as a spy device, etc…

It’s mind boggling that anyone rational & a functioning long term memory would try to reverse this as a way to somehow claim media persecution/victim hood for the PS4. 🤷🏻‍♂️😅
 
But Xbox1 also sold 13million at 17 months
You know this & i know you’re making an intellectually dishonest comparison, so I shouldn’t have to tell you this but I will anyway: 13 million in 2015-16ish with no first party studios, no parent company enthusiasm or financial backing, terrible momentum, wrecked product image & rapidly eroding consumer mindshare due a historically terrible launch…is not the same as 13 million in 2022 with all of those problems largely fixed & heading in the right direction.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
The first few posts came in bragging. They were challenged and a bunch of “usual suspects” posts were made. Now we’ve established that the xboxone also paced similarly. So, the tweet, reply and thread are based, once again when it comes to ms pr, as a half truth.

Thread title: “Xbox Series consoles selling better than Xbox 360”

You: “Haha, you liar. The Xbox One also sold better than the Xbox 360”

How does this make sense to you?


As far as warring, you’re the one posting with an alt account you needed to create so…

Looks like a Freudian slip on your part, mate. You’re the one with a hidden post history 😂
 

Kokoloko85

Member
You know this & i know you’re making an intellectually dishonest comparison, so I shouldn’t have to tell you this but I will anyway: 13 million in 2015-16ish with no first party studios, no parent company enthusiasm or financial backing, terrible momentum, wrecked product image & rapidly eroding consumer mindshare due a historically terrible launch…is not the same as 13 million in 2022 with all of those problems largely fixed & heading in the right direction.

Im just comparing console sales to console sales. Its what the whole conversation and tweet was about.

Im not bringing enthusiasm and momentum into it lol.
We’ll be guessing too much at that point. Yes with stock issues including xbox is doing better than last gen but they also have a much cheaper 2nd console too (series s )


Xbox one momentum was alot worse at the start than 360 but sold better then 360 at the start.

Plenty games were still coming at that point in xbox one life.
But Yes xbox now has new hits, they need these to sell bucketloads of gamepass/xbox consoles : elder scrolls and starfield, fallout, doom, gears and quake
 
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Ozriel

M$FT
I didn't check the full conversation, my bad. Though Acti will still put games on other platforms so I don't know if that will boost Series sales all that much.


Call of duty is staying multiplatform, certainly. Ditto for Diablo and overwatch 2.

Aside that, Microsoft hasn’t made any promises to keep all activision games multiplatform.

But That said, the main draw will be putting these popular franchises on Gamepass. Tons of potential savings to be had.

People constantly underestimate how much Gamepass is a system seller.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Im just comparing console sales to console sales. Its what the whole conversation and tweet was about.

Im not bringing enthusiasm and momentum into it lol.
We’ll be guessing too much at that point. Yes with stock issues including xbox is doing better than last gen but they also have a much cheaper 2nd console too (series s )


Xbox one momentum was alot worse at the start than 360 but sold better then 360 at the start.

Plenty games were still coming at that point in xbox one life.
But Yes xbox now has new hits, they need these to sell bucketloads of gamepass/xbox consoles : elder scrolls and starfield, fallout, doom, gears and quake

The tweet and conversation was about the Xbox Series vs the Xbox 360.

Bringing up the Xbox One was really for one purpose, and it’s then fair for others to highlight why we’re not likely to see an Xbox one situation this gen.
 
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They still need a stronger presence in Europe to get anywhere near 100m though. It's something Microsoft have never achieved after 3 console generations mainly because of their lack of European presence. Call of duty exclusivity would have helped but seems like Microsoft want to keep it as multiplatform, which is strange. They have a chance to take marketshare from Sony but they don't want to take that chance for some reason.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
I don't think it'll surprise that many if Xbox matches PS sales in US & UK, tbh, because they've done that before. But if someone's thinking they're going to blow PS out in those areas, that's like a near 0% probability of happening unless Sony makes a series of mistakes so catastrophic in those markets they piss off well over half their normal customers in them.

MS did a lot better than match PS sales in the 360 era in the US. We'll have to watch the trends, particularly how XSS performs (in terms of market demand and continued sales) when we transition to next-gen only releases, if they can successfully pull an end-around for a lot of the buyers that would typically wait for a price drop it could effect the market in a big way. We'll see how it plays out.
 
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Kokoloko85

Member
Bringing up the Xbox One was really for one purpose, and it’s then fair for others to highlight why we’re not likely to see an Xbox one situation this gen.

Bringing up xbox one numbers was meant to show it doesnt matter if xbox series is selling faster than 360.
Nothing more really.

If you think it means xbox has made huge leaps and bounds then good for u guys, you have plenty of games to look forward to which is way more interesting
 
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MonarchJT

Banned
This is so sketchy and confusing. Microsoft doesn't provide official sold-through numbers themselves, and this very forum (among many others) have questioned VGChartz's credibility multiple times in the past for sometimes having "not quite right" estimates...yet now they are somehow verified as an accurate website by Aaron Greenburg retweeting them on providing numbers based on estimates that on MS's end are based on sold-in (to retailers) because Microsoft does not provide sold-through numbers of their own?

But...Aaron works for Microsoft so he would know the actual sold-through numbers? And if he's retweeting VGChartz's numbers then shouldn't Microsoft themselves also provide official numbers of sold-through globally, or are they afraid that will set people to expect them to do so regularly going forward? At the same time, if the Series systems are really tracking ahead sold-through over 360, wouldn't you as a corporation feel good enough about that and future projected sales to just put the numbers out there officially to shut down any doubts for good?

Other than that, I'm not going to pretend Series aren't doing well. However I think all of these claims come with some big grains of salt. IIRC the 360 was also supply-constrained for a bit and it took a little bit for supply to start catching up with demand (which was ever-growing over the months and then really picked up when Halo 3, Gears, Mass Effect, etc. were shown and about to be released combined with Sony's E3 disaster for PS3). And IMHO; if 360 had supply to match demand in its first 17 months, I think the numbers would be to the effect where Series would not be trending ahead of it sales-wise. 360's early library from 2005 - 2007 just looked a lot stronger on the 1P & 3P AAA side compared to what Series have had, for what's been released so far. Not to mention, 360 also had a cheaper model (with the same specs processing-wise) and an arguably bigger UI/OS/online services impact as well.

I'm glad Series are selling well this gen so far (though I wish the ratio was in favor of Series X vs. Series S), but I've also seen some people, mainly content creators, try to play this up as some massive momentum shift that will be longer-term, particularly at the detriment of PS5. Which realistically speaking, will simply not be the case unless Sony just outright fails to increase supply for another year or two. Otherwise I think what we're seeing is a reflect mainly driven by supply; that's for BOTH Xbox and PlayStation tbh but outside of the U.S and maybe the U.K, global demand for PlayStation is just magnitudes higher and that shouldn't be a controversial statement.

If supply for PS5 were able to meet demand, I actually don't think Series sales would suffer too much (especially if many are Series X units), and could actually see further increases. However I don't think you see any gap closing and potentially a gap widening somewhat in PS5's favor would be the likely outcome. Honestly tho this has nothing really to do with what I think sales would look like with supply normalized to satisfy demand or whatever; it's about Aaron quote-tweeting sales estimates from a website that hasn't exactly been totally right multiple times in the past, when he could just also officially state what actual sold-through numbers for Series are globally especially if it's trending this far ahead of 360 (allegedly).
Iphone doesn't have any sales problem and you not see official number by apple. Ms is a trillion dollar company and their internal rules are differet from a smaller company as Sony.
Aaron knows exactly the true numbers and probably the ones posted on vgchartz come close to the real ones, and it doesn't matter if vgchartz has guessed them or something else. Ms is not forced to release any number regarding the physical sale of consoles and if real investors don't complain, imagine what Microsoft can give a damn about the continuous console warriors complaints about knowing "real number". Would it be interesting to know the numbers? absolutely. Ms have to give them? absolutely not.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Yes, people who predicted how the rest of the thread would go 🤷‍♂️

But thanks for ignoring all the other posts from the usual suspects like ethomaz I guess.

Predicted how the thread would go? No idea what you mean. You clearly said MS should release official numbers. Seems odd that you are highlighting those who "won't be happy" for making the same point.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Predicted how the thread would go? No idea what you mean. You clearly said MS should release official numbers. Seems odd that you are highlighting those who "won't be happy" for making the same point.

Foresight. And my comment was primarily in relation to then retweeting VGChartz, which I have no love for in the first place. Anyone could see how this thread was going to pan out.

And the later posts are in relation to the fact that we already know it's the fastest selling console in their history via official word but some users are not taking that at face value cause lolPhilLieslol I guess.

ps I didn't even realize our boy thomaz got the hammer.
 
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Topher

Gold Member
Foresight. And my comment was primarily in relation to then retweeting VGChartz, which I have no love for in the first place. Anyone could see how this thread was going to pan out.

And the later posts are in relation to the fact that we already know it's the fastest selling console in their history via official word but some users are not taking that at face value cause lolPhilLieslol I guess.

ps I didn't even realize our boy thomaz got the hammer.

It was the exact same comment others have made. I'll leave it at that. I think the most valid point to be made is that Phil Spencer already said Series was the most successful and that obviously translates to outselling 360.
 

FrankWza

Gold Member
Thread title: “Xbox Series consoles selling better than Xbox 360”

You: “Haha, you liar. The Xbox One also sold better than the Xbox 360”

How does this make sense to you?
Thread title,tweet and co-signed tweet by xbox PR guy omitted the xboxone because it isn’t looked at fondly and ended up being severely outsold. 360 had a more respectable showing and is compared here. The all paced similarly. But then you cant thumb up comments that say “momentum”, Msoft doing “everything right” and “series s is genius”
Looks like a Freudian slip on your part, mate. You’re the one with a hidden post history 😂
I don’t think you know what a Freudian slip is.
 
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