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[Bo_Hazem]

Very interesting. I thought that due to chips shortage Xbox and PS would be way closer, but seems that it's pretty much the same "slighly higher than 2X" seen in the previous gen.

On a separate not, it's alway funny to compare real numbers provided by the console makers versus the ones posted in VGChartz. The OP mentions 2021 only and the VGlolz numbers are LTD, but it's easy to see how wrong they are:

This only means VGChartz BS guesswork is only wishful thinking and Xbox consoles sales are way lesser than people dreaming of. The official MS chart shows that Sony already sold more than double what MS managed.

 

[DavidGzz]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/forbes-xbox-series-x-and-s-outsold-switch-ps5-in-us-dollar-sales-in-june.1614013/page-4#post-264217965

Xbox Series S was easy to find in 2021. Many retailers had it available online and it barely went out of stock in 2021. I even shared screenshots after Xbox gamers on here denied it.

Let's not forget that many gamers took advantage of a price error last year for the Xbox Series S

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/possible-huge-pricing-error-at-gamestop-com-2-series-s-for-the-price-of-1.1624725/

You don't have this unless you have a lot of stock available.

The casual gamer and parents, which is what the Series S is more geared toward, isn't going to be hunting online at different websites, they go to Walmart and Target and it was luck seeing one in stock. Even this year I don't see them at my two local Walmarts but maybe twice a month. We have different views on what widely available means.

 

[DavidGzz]

This only means VGChartz BS guesswork is only wishful thinking and Xbox consoles sales are way lesser than people dreaming of. The official MS chart shows that Sony already sold more than double what MS managed.

See, here is a guy who is adding up PS4 and PS5 sales vs. Series sales. Wishful thinking there. Sony hasn't even been able to produce twice as many PS5s. So, was production bad last year or did they produce twice as many? I know, it's whichever fits your current narrative.

 

[DForce]

You think that MS hasn't provided any information on what the combined entity would be post acquisition? Sounds like you haven't been reading any of the info about this deal. None of this matters of since again the only thing that should stop the acquisition is if the law is broken. MS is not a monopoly and this deal won't change that.

I did.

If they have a lot of games lined up in the future then that 2021 stat means nothing.

They're also likely to increase in sales once these exclusive titles start to hit. They're making these games exclusive for a reason.

 

[Kagey K]

See, here is a guy who is adding up PS4 and PS5 sales vs. Series sales. Wishful thinking there. Sony hasn't even been able to produce twice as many PS5s. So, was production bad last year or did they produce twice as many? I know, it's whichever fits your current narrative.

Lack of reading comprehension combined with wishful thinking changes narratives here daily.

 

[DForce]

The casual gamer and parents, which is what the Series S is more geared toward, isn't going to be hunting online at different websites, they go to Walmart and Target and it was luck seeing one in stock. Even this year I don't see them at my two local Walmarts but maybe twice a month. We have different views on what widely available means.

Do you realize that it showed online stock AND at stores?







(All not in the US)

The picture I posted in that thread showed stock IN STORES.

You had someone in the thread making excuses that people in my area were broke. LOL

 

[Heisenberg007]

Releasing some pink bikinis for the xbox controller.

 

[Heisenberg007]

As expected, Ampere Analysis's data was much more close to reality than VGChartz's madeup numbers. Lmao at "20 million Xbox consoles sold."

PS5 Sales Top 28M, XS Tops 20M - Worldwide Hardware Estimates for Nov 27-Dec 3

The Nintendo Switch was the best-selling console with 932,599 units sold for the week ending December 3, 2022, [...]

www.vgchartz.com

VGChartz was showing the PS5:Xbox ratio of 1.4. The reality is that the ratio is more like 2.1

 

[Bo_Hazem]

See, here is a guy who is adding up PS4 and PS5 sales vs. Series sales. Wishful thinking there. Sony hasn't even been able to produce twice as many PS5s. So, was production bad last year or did they produce twice as many? I know, it's whichever fits your current narrative.

36/16= 2.25

It means Sony's numbers are Sony's numbers, they're out there and all known. But Xbox numbers are out of someone's ass vs actual official percentage shown by MS itself.

 

[remember_spinal]

I agree. Let's not.

You know the internet is not the real world.

https://www.denofgeek.com/games/xbox-series-s-black-friday-sales-figures-winner/

 

[DavidGzz]

Do you realize that it showed online stock AND at stores?







(All not in the US)

The picture I posted in that thread showed stock IN STORES.

You had someone in the thread making excuses that people in my area were broke. LOL

This is like when there is a rare bug in a game and you see examples of it everywhere online even though you haven't seen it yourself after 100 hours of gameplay. The fact that people are taking pics to share them shows that it was a surprise to see them. There are millions of people on Twitter. Those pics don't prove they were easy to find for the average parent at their local stores. But whatever, this will go on forever so I'll just stop.

 

[Kagey K]

Do you realize that it showed online stock AND at stores?







(All not in the US)

The picture I posted in that thread showed stock IN STORES.

You had someone in the thread making excuses that people in my area were broke. LOL

This Costco has more PS5 than you showed in those pics.

I passed by hundreds more. Being in store for a time does not equal not being desired.

 

[Heisenberg007]

See, here is a guy who is adding up PS4 and PS5 sales vs. Series sales. Wishful thinking there. Sony hasn't even been able to produce twice as many PS5s. So, was production bad last year or did they produce twice as many? I know, it's whichever fits your current narrative.

I'm not understanding what your argument is.

Do you disagree with the sales data and split that Microsoft shared with the regulators? According to Microsoft, PlayStation is outselling Xbox by 2.1.

 

[DForce]

This is like when there is a rare bug in a game and you see examples of it everywhere online even though you haven't seen it yourself after 100 hours of gameplay. The fact that people are taking pics to share them shows that it was a surprise to see them. There are millions of people on Twitter. Those pics don't prove they were easy to find for the average parent at their local stores. But whatever, this will go on forever so I'll just stop.|

It's not anything close to a glitch. You made a claim with no proof and I provided evidence

It was seen in stores and online. All you're doing is making excuses and telling people, "I haven't seen it" when I provided proof and so have others online.

Either show evidence instead of just claiming it wasn't hard to find in stores.

 

[DForce]

This Costco has more PS5 than you showed in those pics.

I passed by hundreds more. Being in store for a time does not equal not being desired.

You're comparing a picture in a warehouse versus pictures shown ON SHELVES. LOL

You guys are really desperate to be right, huh?

 

[Kagey K]

I'm not understanding what your argument is.

Do you disagree with the sales data and split that Microsoft shared with the regulators? According to Microsoft, PlayStation is outselling Xbox by 2.1.

Absolutely. You should wrote the FTC and tell them the FTC is over estimating Xbox sales.

 

[DavidGzz]

I'm not understanding what your argument is.

Do you disagree with the sales data and split that Microsoft shared with the regulators? According to Microsoft, PlayStation is outselling Xbox by 2.1.

People are saying this proves that PS5 is selling twice as well but this only shows PS, it doesn't specify which console. So it is because PS4s were produced for longer than Xbox Ones or because Sony were able to produce twice as many PS5s. Which is it? I say the former.

 

[DForce]

Here's even more proof from 2021

Many people on this reddit post claim to have seen many Xbox Series S at stores.


And here's more tweets with photos.

So am going to believe a NeoGAFer who hasn't provided evidence to back up his claim or a bunch of random people online claiming to see Xbox Series S consoles on shelves?

It's time to face the facts: It wasn't hard to find an Xbox Series S console in 2021.

 

[DavidGzz]

Dudes are posting pics with 4 exclamation marks in the last month of the year but yeah, it was so easy to find all year. lol

 

[Airbus Jr]

 

[Heisenberg007]

People are saying this proves that PS5 is selling twice as well but this only shows PS, it doesn't specify which console. So it is because PS4s were produced for longer than Xbox Ones or because Sony were able to produce twice as many PS5s. Which is it? I say the former.

PS4s may count in this data, too, but Sony only sold 1 million PS4s in 2021. That figure is so minuscule that it wouldn't skew the data at all. According to Microsoft data:

Including PS4s:

• PS5s sold = 16.1 million (includes 1 million PS4s)
• Xbox sold = 7.1 million
• Ratio = 2.26

Excluding PS4s:

• PS5s sold = 15.1 million (minus 1 million PS4s)
• Xbox sold = 7.1 million
• Ratio = 2.12

Either way, the ratio stays roughly the same.

 

[DForce]

Dudes are posting pics with 4 exclamation marks in the last month of the year but yeah, it was so easy to find all year. lol

First, you said they were showing up at random places. Then you told me parents and casuals weren't going to go online hunting.


How far do you want to move the goalpost? The reddit post was way back in May 2021 and people are saying they saw a lot of Xbox Series S consoles in stores.

 

[THE DUCK]

Very interesting. I thought that due to chips shortage Xbox and PS would be way closer, but seems that it's pretty much the same "slighly higher than 2X" seen in the previous gen.

On a separate not, it's alway funny to compare real numbers provided by the console makers versus the ones posted in VGChartz. The OP mentions 2021 only and the VGlolz numbers are LTD, but it's easy to see how wrong they are:

What blows me away the most about this is how everyone seems to think the biggest reason nintendo sells this many units is because of it's software alone. It's not, it's a combination of the mass market price, the fact that it's a hybrid portable, and the software.
This just screams to me that both MS and Sony are crazy not to have a hybrid second skew. (which in todays world would be super easy to support and port great games to with marginal effort)

 

[remember_spinal]

What blows me away the most about this is how everyone seems to think the biggest reason nintendo sells this many units is because of it's software alone. It's not, it's a combination of the mass market price, the fact that it's a hybrid portable, and the software.
This just screams to me that both MS and Sony are crazy not to have a hybrid second skew. (which in todays world would be super easy to support and port great games to with marginal effort)

Thats what steamdeck is

Also, while the switch is selling like crazy comparing it to two relatively new supply constrained consoles doesn’t really make much sense. The ps5 might very well sell as well as the PS4 while still being more expensive

 

[DarkMage619]

I did.

If they have a lot of games lined up in the future then that 2021 stat means nothing.

They're also likely to increase in sales once these exclusive titles start to hit. They're making these games exclusive for a reason.

Well all a regulator can truly know is what is in the past and present. MS has been in the video game console industry for over 20 years. In that time they've never been anywhere near a monopoly so to speculate that after the Activision acquisition they will suddenly become an unstoppable force that will stop competition in the market is total fantasy.

MS has been far more likely to put their IP on other platforms as well which also lessens any likelihood of a takeover. Again the facts point to this acquisition improving MS' overall standing but nothing close to an end to a competitive market and harm to consumers and that is the only thing the FTC should care about.

 

[Three]

Who says console sales aren't a measure of success?

MS themselves were saying this not long ago.

 

[Three]

You're only proving my point.

You're basically saying this supports Microsoft's case knowing the fact that they don't only use consoles are a measurement of success.

MS not long ago:

“We are continuing to look at engagement as our key metric for success and are no longer reporting on total console sales,”

But obviously when you're buying the biggest third party publisher with engagement numbers through the roof you have to flip the narrative again and concentrate on console sales from a year before.

 

[Heisenberg007]

MS not long ago:

“We are continuing to look at engagement as our key metric for success and are no longer reporting on total console sales,”

But obviously when you're buying the biggest third party publisher with engagement numbers through the roof you have to flip the narrative again and concentrate on console sales from a year before.

Honestly, they could just show engagement metrics too. It's not like they are beating PlayStation in terms of engagement metrics either. A couple of examples:

Persona gameplay engagement on PlayStation vs. Xbox:

Deathloop gameplay engagement on PlayStation vs. Xbox:

Sidebar: This could be its own separate thread: measuring engagement metrics on both platforms.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

PS4s may count in this data, too, but Sony only sold 1 million PS4s in 2021. That figure is so minuscule that it wouldn't skew the data at all. According to Microsoft data:

Including PS4s:

• PS5s sold = 16.1 million (includes 1 million PS4s)
• Xbox sold = 7.1 million
• Ratio = 2.26

Excluding PS4s:

• PS5s sold = 15.1 million (minus 1 million PS4s)
• Xbox sold = 7.1 million
• Ratio = 2.12

Either way, the ratio stays roughly the same.

Thanks for this, some on the first pages were saying 4m PS4s were sold in 2021 to make the numbers fit!! Which is absurd.

 

[existensmaximum]

Interesting, and in some countries (Sweden, for example) it's still impossible to get a PS5. Imagine when the supply is normal.

 

[DarkMage619]

MS themselves were saying this not long ago.

We are continuing to look at engagement as our key metric for success and are no longer reporting on total console sales,”


But obviously when you're buying the biggest third party publisher with engagement numbers through the roof you have to flip the narrative again and concentrate on console sales from a year before.

That doesn't say console sales aren't important. They stopped reporting console sales last generation. What have they said much more recently?

We’ve sold more Xbox Series S and Series X consoles life-to-date than any previous generation of Xbox, and with Xbox Cloud Gaming, we’re bringing games to entirely new endpoints.

MS never said console sales were unimportant. As I've stated earlier it is not their ONLY measure of success unlike with Nintendo and Sony where console sales are their lifeblood. Each company is doing unique things.

Honestly, they could just show engagement metrics too. It's not like they are beating PlayStation in terms of engagement metrics either. A couple of examples:

Persona gameplay engagement on PlayStation vs. Xbox:

Deathloop gameplay engagement on PlayStation vs. Xbox:

Sidebar: This could be its own separate thread: measuring engagement metrics on both platforms.

This again proves MS is not a market leader in video games and the acquisition is not a violation of anti-trust law. No matter what metrics you use Sony is the industry leader. This is why MS is adding more studios to be more competitive.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Looks like a cheap model did fuck all. They still getting outsold 2 to 1. Next year could be worse as sony are aiming for atleast 23m. Microsoft really do need to buy these big 3rd party ips. They just can't compete otherwise. How else will they even close the gap with Sony? It actually shows just how strong sony are. You need to shift the entire industry upside down just to compete with them. Not my words. This is essentially what Microsoft are saying too.

 

[Three]

Honestly, they could just show engagement metrics too. It's not like they are beating PlayStation in terms of engagement metrics either. A couple of examples:

Persona gameplay engagement on PlayStation vs. Xbox:

Deathloop gameplay engagement on PlayStation vs. Xbox:

Sidebar: This could be its own separate thread: measuring engagement metrics on both platforms.

If you're referring to the completion percentage of a trophy/achievement vs people who have played then I'm not sure this can be used as an engagement metric. These two games are recent subscription games for xbox, people will launch them and are less likely to complete them than those who showed an active interest in the game and bought them years before. Deathloop being a subscription game on both PS+ and Gamepass seems to have a higher tracked player count showing subscription engagement.

 

[mckmas8808]

PS4s may count in this data, too, but Sony only sold 1 million PS4s in 2021. That figure is so minuscule that it wouldn't skew the data at all. According to Microsoft data:

Including PS4s:

• PS5s sold = 16.1 million (includes 1 million PS4s)
• Xbox sold = 7.1 million
• Ratio = 2.26

Excluding PS4s:

• PS5s sold = 15.1 million (minus 1 million PS4s)
• Xbox sold = 7.1 million
• Ratio = 2.12

Either way, the ratio stays roughly the same.

How are things going to look if Sony sells 23 million PS5s in 2023?

 

[Three]

MS never said console sales were unimportant. As I've stated earlier it is not their ONLY measure of success

It's almost like that's what DForce said. MS said they don't consider console sales as the key metric to success and no longer report them. They consider that to be engagement numbers. Your stanning never stops though.

 

[DEAD ORIGINAL]

Very interesting. I thought that due to chips shortage Xbox and PS would be way closer, but seems that it's pretty much the same "slighly higher than 2X" seen in the previous gen.

On a separate not, it's alway funny to compare real numbers provided by the console makers versus the ones posted in VGChartz. The OP mentions 2021 only and the VGlolz numbers are LTD, but it's easy to see how wrong they are:

Don't use this trash site there data's fake and there user's stink and eat there own shit.

 

[Kerotan]

Xbox getting less relevant by the year. No wonder they're resorting to buying entire publishers.

 

[Benniewise de Clown]

Same here. I was thinking more 1.5 to 1 given Sony’s supply constraints and that Satya said MS won Oct, Nov, Dec 2021 in the US.

Why do people think that?

Xbox is practically irrelevant outside of US/UK.
Even Spencer keeps saying it (with a nice PR spin).

The gap between will only grow wider and wider, now that Sony stated that supply issues have been resolved.

 

[Kagey K]

Xbox getting less relevant by the year. No wonder they're resorting to buying entire publishers.

Right. It becomes real easy to disprove monopoly at that point.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Man, it looks like MS needs ABK to restore some balance. Sony running away with it, we need more competition ASAP.

Hopefully Apple or someone does step into the ring that can help make it more interesting for us and drive better deals for us all.

 

[Heisenberg007]

This again proves MS is not a market leader in video games and the acquisition is not a violation of anti-trust law. No matter what metrics you use Sony is the industry leader. This is why MS is adding more studios to be more competitive.

Sony is the industry leader through their own efforts and game development pedigree. They did not become the market leader by acquiring multiplatform publishers an IPs.

And this only shows that Xbox gamers are not that interested in playing video games, including Zenimax's own title. And that Zenimax had a more engaged userbase on PlayStation than they now have on Xbox, and restricting those titles on Xbox was a bad move that didn't favor either Zenimax or video gamers.

 

[jm89]

Man, it looks like MS needs ABK to restore some balance. Sony running away with it, we need more competition ASAP.

Hopefully Apple or someone does step into the ring that can help make it more interesting for us and drive better deals for us all.

MS need to do their job and not hide behind other publisher's for their failures. Their marketshare loss is their fault.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Man, it looks like MS needs ABK to restore some balance. Sony running away with it, we need more competition ASAP.

Hopefully Apple or someone does step into the ring that can help make it more interesting for us and drive better deals for us all.

The opposite.

Why is Sony running away with it? Ask anyone, and they would say that's because Sony has great first-party games. That's why Xbox needs to do -- make games, not acquire games or studios.

If Sony can compete and be #1 with 19 first-party studios, Xbox can do even better than Sony with the 23 studios they have. Why do they need 30+ studios to compete with PlayStation's 19 studios?

 

[zzill3]

MS need to do their job and not hide behind other publisher's for their failures. Their marketshare loss is their fault.

Isn't that what they're doing by getting more development studios and IPs?

 

[jm89]

Isn't that what they're doing by getting more development studios and IPs?

So the solution is to keep buying more studios and ips? When they already have more studios then sony, have more money then Sony and Nintendo combined and shit ton of ips.

Sounds like a total failure of the existing leadership if they can't compete with already having more resources then the competition. Maybe it's time to see why the existing leadership can't do their jobs?

 

[3liteDragon]

Console sales matter all of a sudden to some…

I’m still predicting a 2:1 margin or higher by the end of this gen.

Aging like fine wine.

 

[zzill3]

The opposite.

Why is Sony running away with it? Ask anyone, and they would say that's because Sony has great first-party games. That's why Xbox needs to do -- make games, not acquire games or studios.

If Sony can compete and be #1 with 19 first-party studios, Xbox can do even better than Sony with the 23 studios they have. Why do they need 30+ studios to compete with PlayStation's 19 studios?

Sony have the mindshare and that's hard to overcome. There are legitimately people out there that think MS didn't have any first party games in 2022, when they only had one less than Sony (5 vs. 4).

When you're faced with that kind of mindset from consumers you need a lot more than the competition in order for people to think you're relevant, and that's thanks to year after year of Sony money hatting games to make sure they stay off xbox. It's going to take big moves to overcome the historic good will Sony have built up by depriving xbox of games.

Competition in the gaming space should not be limited to what's fair to the market leader, it should be limited to what's good, or at least neutral, for the industry.
There's good reason that only Sony and Google are against the acquisition and everyone else in the industry doesn't really care, and that's because it's not a bad thing for the industry.
If Sony can't compete against MS with 30+ studios then they can just go in to second place. Honestly it won't be the end of the world.

 

[Heisenberg007]

If you're referring to the completion percentage of a trophy/achievement vs people who have played then I'm not sure this can be used as an engagement metric. These two games are recent subscription games for xbox, people will launch them and are less likely to complete them than those who showed an active interest in the game and bought them years before. Deathloop being a subscription game on both PS+ and Gamepass seems to have a higher tracked player count showing subscription engagement.

Actually, this is the perfect indication and metric for measuring user engagement. That's because:

• All XGS first-party games get released on Gamepass, day one.
• Xbox gets a lot of third-party games on Gamepass, day one.
• Games that aren't available on Gamepass do not sell well. According to Digital Foundry, they saw the data and game sales have declined by 80% on Xbox since the introduction of Gamepass.

So most games that are being played on Xbox are also on Gamepass. And these 2 games are as well. So they are the perfect example, and this user engagement data can be extrapolated to other (majority of) games.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Sony have the mindshare and that's hard to overcome.

Not true. I feel this is just an excuse by Xbox to acquire studios and take the easy way out.

By the end of the PS3 generation, both Xbox and PS had the exact same level of mindshare and market share. PlayStation became immensely successful in the next generation because they produced quality first-party games using the studios they had.

Xbox can produce more and better games than PlayStation using their first-party studios (4 more than PlayStation) and infinite money resources, and take back that share, just like PlayStation did last generation.

There are legitimately people out there that think MS didn't have any first party games in 2022, when they only had one less than Sony (5 vs. 4).

The mindshare is because of the type of games that were releasing in 2022:

Grounded (available for 2 years, not new), Pentiment, Crossfire X, Deathloop (available on PS since 2021, not new), As Dusk Falls vs. God of War Ragnarok, Gran Turismo 7, Horizon Forbidden West, MLB The Show, The Last of Us.

The games that Xbox released will not be as popular and, therefore, won't capture the mindshare.

They will have to release big blockbuster memorable AAA games that people talk about for years to penetrate the market and capture mindshare.

 

[Three]

Actually, this is the perfect indication and metric for measuring user engagement. That's because:

• All XGS first-party games get released on Gamepass, day one.
• Xbox gets a lot of third-party games on Gamepass, day one.
• Games that aren't available on Gamepass do not sell well. According to Digital Foundry, they saw the data and game sales have declined by 80% on Xbox since the introduction of Gamepass.

So most games that are being played on Xbox are also on Gamepass. And these 2 games are as well. So they are the perfect example, and this user engagement data can be extrapolated to other (majority of) games.

Of course it reduces game sales but wouldn't gamepass itself be engagement and game sales unit sales? What engagement are you trying to measure? I don't think % of those getting further in games is a good indication of much. Especially for these 2 games.

You are looking at trophy/achievement percentages for Persona which came out in 2016 for PS and people bought it, meaning they had an active interest in it and completing it vs those who got it on launch in 2022 on a sub and are likely to have launched it but weren't really interested. Same with deathloop but by a year instead. Deathloop came to PS+ and gamepass a year after game sales launch but notice its tracked players is higher on GP. The engagement numbers are higher even if retention for an individual title is lower as a percentage.