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343 Community Manager asks if game devs should get vacations, chaos ensues

Nydius

Member
That is a valid question.
Game devs is a demanding job. I am surprised these guys get a vacation.
I agree on both counts but the timing of asking this is really suspect. I think remember_spinal is right that something is probably going on over there, like suits demanding devs work to get more content prepared over the holidays and denying PTO requests or something like that.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
So he's asking if people entitled to vacation as per company policy and federal laws should still be on-call to work, or outright zero vacation?

Sounds like a loaded question. It's not like they are doctors on-call.

Whether people say Yes with On-Call, or No, 343 will come out saying they support their employees with full vacations to make it look management is a friend to employees.
 

feynoob

Banned
Game devs should adopt better management practices so that reasonable work hours and vacations are like most industries

It just so happens that many dev studios are horribly run. Scope creep, poor prototyping, lack of solid Game direction, the list goes on.

Adopt the insomniac games model
The industry is full of crunch in order to hit the deadline.
People here get mad, when employees complain about these tactics.

Cyberpunk 2077 suffered massively from shit management, and outrage abuse from gamers.

Either side doesn't help the situation.
 

feynoob

Banned
I agree on both counts but the timing of asking this is really suspect. I think remember_spinal is right that something is probably going on over there, like suits demanding devs work to get more content prepared over the holidays and denying PTO requests or something like that.
Considering current halo infinite state, their devs are working overtime now in order to fix that game.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
What is the context of that tweet?

Is like a random "no question" , unless 343i drvs are deprived of vacations?...what is the point? Is this and inside joke?

The results are weird too.
 
Game devs should adopt better management practices so that reasonable work hours and vacations are like most industries

It just so happens that many dev studios are horribly run. Scope creep, poor prototyping, lack of solid Game direction, the list goes on.

Adopt the insomniac games model

But thats not the developers faults thats managements. Also kind of weirdly timed with Microsoft being pro-union these days
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol If i had to guess, Phil finally cracked down and 343i devs werent allowed to take christmas vacations. He probably made them come back to work on Monday (no make up day for Christmas falling on the weekend would be my guess) and this dude is pissed about it.

Otherwise, this passive aggressive tweet makes no sense. Of course they deserve vacations just like everyone else.
 
lol If i had to guess, Phil finally cracked down and 343i devs werent allowed to take christmas vacations. He probably made them come back to work on Monday (no make up day for Christmas falling on the weekend would be my guess) and this dude is pissed about it.

Otherwise, this passive aggressive tweet makes no sense. Of course they deserve vacations just like everyone else.

I doubt it was Phil it was probably the new management at 343. They’re probably going to miss their season 3 deadline agan
 
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Ozzie666

Member
What next, should employee be allowed to take maternity or paternity leave?

Is this for real? Manage your resources accordingly.
 

ProtoByte

Member
Game devs should adopt better management practices so that reasonable work hours and vacations are like most industries

It just so happens that many dev studios are horribly run. Scope creep, poor prototyping, lack of solid Game direction, the list goes on.
The funny thing is that you'll have some people claim that the live service model actually fixes those things by introducing a more explicitly incremental nature to game development. But it's so clear that that's bullshit.

There's practically no live service game that has been able to keep up with a reasonable content schedule, and the quality is almost always substandard. Even something as simple as Fortnite has devs crunching like you wouldn't believe. As much as I'm sure we'll hear about Rockstar crunch during GTA6, if you don't think they've been working overtime to deliver the meager offerings of GTA Online you don't know the half of it.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
These are game makers. Not doctors on-call. The correct poll answer is [Yes, no on-call].

The on-call part is subjective. There's a difference between someone needed to help if servers go down, vs. being on-call because management wants a team to keep working on graphics and DLC.

A terrible poll by the 343 guy looking for Christmas clicks.
 
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gothmog

Gold Member
There's no unless, all salaried or contracted employees should get vacation.
Giving them vacation and letting them take vacation with no rules are two different things. Sounds like someone had to take the Christmas shifts to support the game over the holidays and they are salty about it.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Considering current halo infinite state, their devs are working overtime now in order to fix that game.
I was thinking the same.

What's probably happened the past few years since the awful Craig showing is that management told them to get their asses in gear and fix up the game and do DLC asap. So it's got to a point even the community manager on Twitter is looking for perspective from gamers.

Nobody (aside from maybe labour lawyers) are going to ask publicly about vacation polls about their industry unless their company has internal issues about it.
 
The gas station was open on Christmas. Game devs make pretty good money.

Star Trek Reaction GIF
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
The gas station was open on Christmas. Game devs make pretty good money. If you can't handle the policy at your employer just quit. Poll should have never been public. Bullshit drama.
Video game industry image: Could be long hours, crunch, you even hear stories of people sleeping at the office. Even the average gamer with zero programming skills knows about this. At least that's whats communicated on social media. So unless it's all a lie, the industry can be a pressure cooker to release a game on time.

Video game employee: Sign me up.

Video game employee years later: WTF? I didn't know we had to work long hours and crunch!
 

ZehDon

Member
Of course.

For the online games requiring on-going support, the concepts of a skeleton crew, rotating shifts, and holiday pay incentives, invented back before we'd decided on what to call "fire", should prove helpful jumping off points.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
The question starts to make sense when you realize just how much Microsoft Games Studios relies on contractors to deliver games.

Contractors don't get paid holidays most of the time.
Weird concern. That's a community manager which is usually not a permanent position. And he definitely gets holidays.
 
imagine your beeper going off on christmas when you’re watching your kids unwrap their gifts because the halo servers went down lol
It's called having responsibility and a job that requires this. I had to work Christmas, I got double time plus time and a half. Others are on call. I work it for a metal alloy foundry. We have furnaces running 24x7. If something happens I have to fix the issue or determine the right person on each team that is needed to call.

The same type of people who bitch about being on call also bitch about down servers. You can't have it both ways.

Also se companies that I have worked for have fixed vacations. The place shuts down doe 4th of July and Xmas. You get that and eventually an extra floating week.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Of course.

For the online games requiring on-going support, the concepts of a skeleton crew, rotating shifts, and holiday pay incentives, invented back before we'd decided on what to call "fire", should prove helpful jumping off points.
Every company with backend tech has a skeleton crew to man the ship in case something bad happens during Christmas. If everything hits the shitter, the boss isn't going to say to IT "Hey guys, enjoy your two weeks off. By the way, when you're back in January can you work on the SAP issues causing shipment problems that started on December 18th?"
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
It's called having responsibility and a job that requires this. I had to work Christmas, I got double time plus time and a half. Others are on call. I work it for a metal alloy foundry. We have furnaces running 24x7. If something happens I have to fix the issue or determine the right person on each team that is needed to call.

The same type of people who bitch about being on call also bitch about down servers. You can't have it both ways.

Also se companies that I have worked for have fixed vacations. The place shuts down doe 4th of July and Xmas. You get that and eventually an extra floating week.
I've had to work Xmas too. I am this holiday doing stuff for an hour here or there because I'm the only who does it and the rest of the people still working through the holidays might need my info. It goes with the job. And I'm on salary, so I get zero extra dollars from it. Sometimes the VP asks me for important info during the holidays because he needs to show his US boss something. And for whatever reason it cant wait until January. Hey, if it's got to be done, I'll do it. I always tell the VP I'm around if you need something urgently. What am I going to say? Thanks for the nice salary and bonus, but for this one hour job you really need go fuck yourself because I'm watching a Die Hard marathon?
 
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