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[Lupin25]

Co-op Halo (CE-3) was something I GREW up with honestly, between I and my cousins/friends, so that’s quite a change in my eyes.

I really hope they do better to keep the franchise thriving for the sake of the fans and the IP man..

 

[Black_Stride]

If they were not actively trying to hire based on optics, then they wouldn't be parading it all over social media as a badge of honor. Pictures of blue haired groups of women only devs showing how progressive they are.

Now I know it's a complex issue, if I was a genuinely talented black dev who was hired based on merit yet had to sit next to six useless diversity hires who were warming seats I would be fuming. Also as a white talented dev seeing blue haired chicks being pushed to the fore to satiate some imaginary modern audience on social media whilst I was edged out if the camera shot.

As the old adage goes ' The proof of the pudding us in the eating'. And 343i are baking steaming turd puddings.

This is all conjecture.


Generally speaking game development in the west was a white male dominated industry.
Simply with the growing of social media, of course companys are gonna want to bandwagon on shit and show off their diverse team, even if they only make up 5% of said team.
And while it might seem like pandering, i know for a fact from university friends and IRL that people seeing diverse game developers makes them more confident to actually want to pursue working in game dev.

Showing off your diverse dev team does not imply that they are doing diversity hires which in turn is somehow leading to games getting worse.
The entire deep dives on God of War Ragnarok was filled with minorities.....but because the game came out great we suddenly dont say Santa Monica studio is doing nothin but diversity hires.

As you pointed out the issue is extremely complex and it is very dangerous to come out saying ohh look at all the minorities, that is why these games suck, these people arent talented they were hired purely for diversity quota.

Which is why im asking people to name these diversity hires.
I know alot of minorities within the game industry, and they are some of the most talented people I know.

Saying 343i has a lot of minorities and Halo Infinite couch Co-op didnt work out then somehow linking the two separate points is fucked up and bordering on racist.

We literally had a thread about this very topic just last month.
Im surprised we dont have sticky about this topic cuz its starting to get quite offensive and oppressive, to believe that Gaffers think were I to show up in a black history month photo/video for game dev X I was hired purely because im black, and not because I worked my ass off to get there.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Employee pool that wasn’t available before lol. Everyone got access to the internet or a pen and paper and envelope.

P.S - Google - BBC, white people need not apply. If they are doing it they all are. If you think diversity quotas aren’t being forced above hiring on merit then you living on another planet, sorry.

What's so confusing about my statement? Its really simple and I can provide an example for you if you need it.

*Company A had 100 people respond to a job posting and only 2 were a minority. Company A spends resources to attract or recruit more minority applicants. Company A now has 10 minority applicants out of 100.

In the case before there was only a 2% chance of a minority being hired. In the second case there was a 10% chance a minority would be hired. Hence this demonstrates how Company A gained access to an employee pool that was not available beforehand. This isn't rocket science, it's commen sense.

Also, what you are doing is pointing to a situation where a left leaning media company in the UK, only allows minority applications for a single trainee position making £17,810 a year. How is this useful in anyway?
That's like me finding an article of a pig fucker and using it as evidence that all men fuck pigs. Yes it happens, but we arent in a pig fucking pandemic. Your insinuation was that being a minority was more important than competence and I called bullshit. This example doesn't help your argument.

Where your logic falls apart (if there is any) is when you realize that there were plenty of shitty games before "diversity" hiring and there will be many afterwards. To point the finger at diversity hiring as the prevalent cause of shitty games being made, says more about your confirmation bias than it says about modern game developments issues.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Let’s see all the software developers opinions here in a few minutes.

I’ll give you a gamer/consumer’s opinion. Halo was the bees knees and known for coop. 343 shit the bed which prompted a management upheaval.

Coop Halos were the best Halos.

 

[anothertech]

80% done and dropped? Fuck.

4k is less a waste of resources than 343i.

 

[clarky]

80% done and dropped? Fuck.

4k is less a waste of resources than 343i.

They stated in an interview this week that although it was 80% "done" the last 20% is the hard bit and would have taken too long and took up too many resources that they don't have. And while it was playable, it crashed too much and there was many bugs the felt unaceptable for a retail release.

 

[anothertech]

They stated in an interview this week that although it was 80% "done" the last 20% is the hard bit and would have taken too long and took up too many resources that they don't have. And while it was playable, it crashed too much and there was many bugs the felt unaceptable for a retail release.

Not only that, but having to get it to work on "all platforms" was nigh impossible.

Clusterfuck.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Yeah, I really enjoyed the game but I admittedly was expecting more. Didn't they trash their work and start from scratch at one point?

 

[clarky]

Not only that, but having to get it to work on "all platforms" was nigh impossible.

Clusterfuck.

Easy to say in hidesight but a cloud only OG one version would have done wonders for the game. They probably took one look at the player stats for the co-op ( low i'd imagine) and went "fuck this" As loud as some of the voices are on here the ship has sailed for infinites co-op mode which lets face it should have been in at launch. Hopefully this is just a test bed for the next campaign.

 

[Lone Wolf]

This game is so fucked up and behind schedule that they should cut losses and move on to the next one. They already pulled one of the two new maps for crashes. It’s over. The player base has moved on.

 

[Razvedka]

Edit: Deleted.

Not worth getting to this fight.

On topic: Sounds like a whole mess of issues brought Infinite down. But poor planning and management are at the top.

 

[clarky]

They fucking said after Halo 5 they’d never ship a halo without splitscreen again. They fucking outright lied. They should finish the local co-op mode and release it. Fucking liars.

It has split screen, just not the one you want to be outraged about. Keep your knickers on, it's not the end of the world, shit happens.

Edit: They already said they don't have the resources, so you want to pull them away from attempting to salvage the MP, where they still have a smallish player base to concentrate on a mode that likely nobody(including you) will play?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Bonnie Ross (center front) being escorted outside 343i studio building.

 

[clarky]

Bonnie Ross (center front) being escorted outside 343i studio building.

Still think she's hot.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Still think she's hot.

That MC is touching her boob.

 

[clarky]

That MC is touching her boob.

Wouldn't say no to a revenge shag thb.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

There is campaign coop.
There just isnt couch campaign coop.

Did they literally just release the co-op campaign? Because when it launched my friend and I couldn't play through the story together and it was a bummer

 

[elliot5]

Did they literally just release the co-op campaign? Because when it launched my friend and I couldn't play through the story together and it was a bummer

3 days ago yes

 

[Ozriel]

It's unknown whether 343i pushed to still release on the Xbox One consoles they started on, or were mandated to. But given that Forza Horizon 5 started out as a One game and also managed redesigned the game to take advantage of the hardware of the Series consoles and PC without these issues, it really only makes this seem like another case of 343i developer incompetence.

This makes no sense. Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite are two vastly different games, doing different things. Halo Infinite takes advantage of the Series consoles and PC pretty much the same way FH5 does - higher resolution, better textures, better frame rates than on the original Xbox, while maintaining feature parity. Framerate is doubled on the Series consoles compared to the last gen versions.

Cursory research should have told you this.

Personally, I believe that co-op was cancelled because Halo Infinite launched in such a bad state they can't split their resources more than they already have to polish the rest of the co-op, instead of the cause being troubled development being held back by the platform they started on, especially if they were working on the co-op specifically for years as they claim.

Did you truly make a long post just to state the obvious? Because this is pretty much what they’ve said.

They fucking said after Halo 5 they’d never ship a halo without splitscreen again. They fucking outright lied. They should finish the local co-op mode and release it. Fucking liars.

The state of the ‘fanbase’. I see how you were perfectly fine with online co-op so you could play with your friends…but now apparently your friends just have to come to your house to play with you.

Nitpicking over the slightest thing to rake them over the coals.
Yes, couch co-op used to be a big deal for Halo, but this isn’t 2008 anymore. There’s a full fledged online campaign you can play with 4 of your friends right now, but you’d rather complain stridently over a low priority feature you won’t even use.

Well done

 

[DarkMage619]

Awesome, the weekly negative Halo thread.

Anything been said that hasn't already? Nope.

The dev was in an interview the other day explaining why they cancelled it.

But fire Bonnie Ross and the rest of upper management!!! Amirite? o fuck they already did that.

I've been playing co-op campaign with my friend and having a great time. I've also watched tons of videos of people playing with new Forge maps and talking about how fun the maps are. I wonder how many of the people dumping on the game have actually tried these things? Most complaints seem past tense.

 

[EddieVanHelgen]

Here's the thing, Halo Infinite is easily, easily the best coop campaign the series has had. Yes it should have been in at launch, but better late than never.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I'm not going to defend 343i in any way, but it's baffling to see that Microsoft manage to get the least gains out of any situation everytime. It's basically the opposite of "the best of both worlds" expression, it's the worst of both worlds. It really ends like that consistently for Xbox, that's almost fascinating, perhaps they're cursed or something.

It's not hard to imagine why a company like Microsoft is ill-suited to making video games. You can see their software development culture in things like Windows and Office and understand how that might clash mightily with how video games are developed.

 

[MOTM]

Somebody needs to make a documentary on what a mess Infinite’s dev process was. We got a million Anthem YouTube docs, Infinite deserves some too.

The campaign is great and the multi had me hooked for the first couple of months. However given the dev time and the fact that Halo is tent pole franchise, some of the aspects of this game is absolutely baffling.

Every time I read something new about the 343’s struggles it sounds like they were working with the most tedious engine and dev tools ever.

 

[Robb]

Well I guess that somewhat explains where all the development time went.

 

[ungalo]

It's not hard to imagine why a company like Microsoft is ill-suited to making video games. You can see their software development culture in things like Windows and Office and understand how that might clash mightily with how video games are developed.

Perhaps. But i would rather compare what they do in the divisions and structures where they are very confident to the old Xbox, where things were going pretty good, despite all the flaws they always had as a company.

Nowadays it doesn't really feel that way, it's more like some sort of lethargy.

 

[Ozriel]

It's not hard to imagine why a company like Microsoft is ill-suited to making video games. You can see their software development culture in things like Windows and Office and understand how that might clash mightily with how video games are developed.

Yes, because it was under Nintendo that Halo 1-3 were made

This also shows that…

Perhaps. But i would rather compare what they do in the divisions and structures where they are very confident to the old Xbox, where things were going pretty good, despite all the flaws they always had as a company.

Nowadays it doesn't really feel that way, it's more like some sort of lethargy.

…no matter how baffling an opinion is, there’s always someone ambling by to amplify it.

You guys are a hoot.

Somebody needs to make a documentary on what a mess Infinite’s dev process was. We got a million Anthem YouTube docs, Infinite deserves some too.

The campaign is great and the multi had me hooked for the first couple of months. However given the dev time and the fact that Halo is tent pole franchise, some of the aspects of this game is absolutely baffling.

Every time I read something new about the 343’s struggles it sounds like they were working with the most tedious engine and dev tools ever.

Anthem - a critical and commercial failure sunset within a year.

Not sure what the basis or rationale for the comparison to Halo Infinite which is fundamentally a sound game with multiple awards.
The full story on Infinite’s troubled development is already out there anyway. We know what happened - a reboot mid-development forced scope cut back and a ‘hot’ launch, leading to post launch content issues that are in the process of being resolved.

 

[ungalo]

You're pretty much the only one to be "baffled" so constantly with everything that revolves around Xbox or Microsoft. Perhaps it's time to ask yourself why. To disagree is a common thing but saying constantly that you're reading crazy shit, the problem lies with you.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

343i and probably many other Microsoft development teams have fallen victim to the cancer that is, diversity hiring. The results of which are being shown in real time. Sub standard output.

Wait until they do reparations through downsizing... the only people left will be the diversity hires!

 

[FireFly]

They fucking said after Halo 5 they’d never ship a halo without splitscreen again. They fucking outright lied. They should finish the local co-op mode and release it. Fucking liars.

Technically they would only have been lying if they had known at the time that Infinite would ship without splitscreen. And they haven't said that splitscreen won't come at a later date.

Edit: Also didn't realise there were so many members of 343 posting on these forums.

 

[March Climber]

Apart from this topic being brought up again weeks later, the funniest thing here is that someone used a halo infinite thread to start a random derail rant discussion about diversity hiring.

A halo infinite thread.

 

[Tripolygon]

They stated in an interview this week that although it was 80% "done" the last 20% is the hard bit and would have taken too long and took up too many resources that they don't have. And while it was playable, it crashed too much and there was many bugs the felt unaceptable for a retail release.

That's what people don't get. Projects get canceled all the time, if it is not coming together well. Sony Santa Monica had a new IP in development and by most accounts was well into development for 4 years but got canceled then Cory started GOW which up until the last 2 years wasn't coming together well but they pivoted and made it work or it would have been shit canned too.

 

[Tripolygon]

Wait until they do reparations through downsizing... the only people left will be the diversity hires!

Do you have a timeline when this would happen? Just curious, you sound so certain so I'd like a timeline when you think this reparation downsizing would start.

 

[clarky]

Apart from this topic being brought up again weeks later, the funniest thing here is that someone used a halo infinite thread to start a random derail rant discussion about diversity hiring.

A halo infinite thread.

Nothing is of limits in a Halo thread round these parts. Well unless you say you enjoyed the game, thats a big no no.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

This makes no sense. Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite are two vastly different games, doing different things. Halo Infinite takes advantage of the Series consoles and PC pretty much the same way FH5 does - higher resolution, better textures, better frame rates than on the original Xbox, while maintaining feature parit

You just proved my point. They did handle things the same way, and only one game launched complete, functional, without issues, while still having ongoing content and a large open world, and it wasn't Halo Infinite.

 

[CuNi]

Let’s see all the software developers opinions here in a few minutes.

Doesn't take a plumber to see a broken pipe.

 

[K' Dash]

Doesn't take a plumber to see a broken pipe.

Watching gamers talk about software development like they know shit about it is pretty amusing, with this I’m not defending a string of bad decisions they made, most of the time it’s the clients with unrealistic expectations the ones who fuck up, not the devs.

As a developer, if I say a feature will take 3 months to develop and the customer says I have to do it in 3 weeks… well, I can try to give you an MVP, but nothing close to what he’s expecting.

This doesn’t happen just with games btw, it happens everyday in every software development project.

When you see a project that is fucked up, it’s probably because the higher ups decided to launch the product as it is and didn’t give enough time to work on it, while the devs are putting insane hours to deliver something functional, the people waaayyy up in the chain of command just deploy to prod what they have.

Then the same devs, crunched as fuck, barely sleeping and barely seeing their families have to fix the thing they didn’t want to deliver in the first place, that’s why the “lazy devs” rethoric is one of the most retarded shit I see thrown up in gaming forums… I just laugh at all of this now.

 

[Ozriel]

You just proved my point. They did handle things the same way, and only one game launched complete, functional, without issues, while still having ongoing content and a large open world, and it wasn't Halo Infinite.

And if you’d bother to read the opening paragraph in what I posted, they’re doing vastly different things.
But at least you’re finally admitting they’ve handled the cross gen upgrades in similar ways.

You also have to be on something to claim Halo Infinite didn’t launch in a functional state.

 

[IYAOYAS2019]

ughh... The person behind Halo the TV series "silver team".

 

[Alx]

80% done and dropped? Fuck.

Well as the saying goes, the last 20% require 80% of the effort.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

And if you’d bother to read the opening paragraph in what I posted, they’re doing vastly different things.
But at least you’re finally admitting they’ve handled the cross gen upgrades in similar ways.

I didn't say anything about cross-gen upgrades.

both games aimed to make a large open world game that would be upgraded overtime, one (Halo) had more time and better tools for next gen consoles and incorporated those next gen consoles as the hardware was ready while FH5 jumped in late, and despite also being on multiple systems FH5 has everything releasing on time, stable frame rate, better graphics in MP, and parts of SP, and did it in near 4x LESS time without cancelling any promised features or delaying any updates.

The irrational halo Infinite/343i defense doesn't make sense not matter how you cut it.

Halo Infinite has been a mess from the start, FH5 hasn't. There's nothing Halo infinite was doing that would make sense of the massive gap in competence between the two especially when you look at Halo Infinite development starting much earlier with more staff, with better tools and knowledge of the next gen consoles ahead of time which FH5 has to jump on late and still they got good stuff out of every platform it released on where Halo Infinite was a mess on on platforms, with Playground having split resources and a smaller team with an engine that had to be modified twice for the first set of platforms and then the later set.

 

[kiphalfton]

Microsoft studio management continues to be an embarrassment

Almost as bad as Square Enix

 

[anothertech]

Easy to say in hidesight but a cloud only OG one version would have done wonders for the game. They probably took one look at the player stats for the co-op ( low i'd imagine) and went "fuck this" As loud as some of the voices are on here the ship has sailed for infinites co-op mode which lets face it should have been in at launch. Hopefully this is just a test bed for the next campaign.

It's just a sad and fucked up state of affairs. Pure and simple. I mean fuck, it's halo. Should have been many things it was not. Ended up with a hollow shell of what could have been.