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40 FPS modes coming to Spider-man and Miles Morales on PS5

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
40 fps is much much better than 30.
Every VRR user knows that.


This has nothing to do with VRR.

40 FPS on a refresh rate that divides evenly into it will be smooth without judder.

By that logic, if you have a display that supports 90hz, you can run a 45 FPS game on it and it will divide evenly and play even smoother without any judder. It just needs to divide evenly.
 

Knightime_X

Member
so 30 fps @ 60 hz writes a new frame every 2 refreshes, 40 fps @ 120 writes on every 3. will that look weird?
No, because 40 divides into 120 evenly by 3.
Frame pacing is something like 33.33 which is rather smooth.
I could be wrong about the frame pacing though.
 
Damn, that was quick


Does this mean that 120 display mode + VRR enabled could have the game running at above 40fps with no issues? If it's stable...this is great.
Hopefully Digital Foundry does some videos.
 

sn0man

Member


That's what it says now the patch is live, so much for it being unnecessary and a "crutch" the benefits will be felt by everyone now.

If VRR is also enabled in the system settings,
frame rates will be further increased and vary based on
gameplay.


Does this mean that the baseline 40fps will go higher with a compatible VRR display? Like say fidelity 43fps or some such?

How does that interact with TVs that have higher minimum VRR range? I think some, for example, have a range only as low as 48fps.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
No, because 40 divides into 120 evenly by 3.
Frame pacing is something like 33.33 which is rather smooth.
I could be wrong about the frame pacing though.


I think it's a little higher than 33.33 but as long as it's even and steady without judder, the experience will be consistent.
 

lukilladog

Member
It´s odd that consoles have not been offering 37fps/74hz and 50hz, even my first lcd monitor could do that, back when they still were 5:4 aspect ratio. 37fps looks way smoother than 30fps.
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
Both Spider-Man and Ratchet have 60FPS modes if you want it. Plus those modes are extremely stable and some of them have RT as well.
 
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This has nothing to do with VRR.

40 FPS on a refresh rate that divides evenly into it will be smooth without judder.

By that logic, if you have a display that supports 90hz, you can run a 45 FPS game on it and it will divide evenly and play even smoother without any judder. It just needs to divide evenly.
This is right.
I meant just increasing frame rate from 30 to 40 fps with even frame-times results in much better gaming experience with better motion resolution and reduced input-lag.
It's much better than it looks like.
 
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SlimySnake

Gold Member
Just tested!!! Damn!! Please Insomniac Games, share this code with everybody!!!! Including Guerrilla Games ASAP!
Its not just the coding. Its the thinking outside the box that impressed me the most. 120 fps TVs have been around for a while but they were the first ones to add a 40 fps patch. Vrr has been on consoles since the x1x days and yet they are the first ones to use it to turn their 30 fps modes into unlocked 40-50 fps modes. I remember df begging for an unlocked fps mode in control because they found that in photomode the game spent most of its time over 40-55 fps especially on the xsx but Remedy never bothered with it.

Its such a simple thing but insomniac is leading the charge once again.

Meanwhile the geniuses over at GG keep downgrading the game with every patch just to fix some shimmering issues. Just reduce the goddamn resolution to 1440p, keep the fidelity settings, and leave the framerate unlocked. this shouldnt be that hard.
 
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BreakOut

Member
I seriously hope 40 FPS becomes a standard option. Get rid of that dirty peasant 30. Still not as good as 60, but damn if I wasn’t surprised at how smooth that was. I really am blown away at that mode. I think on some games I would even take 40 for the Fidelity, with the latency reduction it doesn’t feel anywhere close to 30, obviously higher frame rates in certain games are necessary but ratchet and clank I’d of played at 40 if it was there from the get-go.
 

SlimySnake

Gold Member
I seriously hope 40 FPS becomes a standard option. Get rid of that dirty peasant 30. Still not as good as 60, but damn if I wasn’t surprised at how smooth that was. I really am blown away at that mode. I think on some games I would even take 40 for the Fidelity, with the latency reduction it doesn’t feel anywhere close to 30, obviously higher frame rates in certain games are necessary but ratchet and clank I’d of played at 40 if it was there from the get-go.
The slight jitter while turning is still there and tbh thats the only thing i notice. otherwise it feels very smooth and closer to 60 fps than 30.

I wonder if vrr would remove the jitter while traveling at high speeds and turning. I play Cyberpunk at around 40 fps on PC, and dont get the same jitter when driving around, and i wonder if its because of my gsync display.
 

01011001

Member
that would be great if the damn console supported 1440p.

my TV can only do 4k60, 1080p120 or 1440p120
due to the PS5 not supporting 1440p I need to drop my output resolution all the way down to 1080p if I want to use 120hz, meaning the 120hz option on PS5 is usually useless for me
 
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CamHostage

Member
It´s odd that consoles have not been offering 37fps/74hz and 50hz, even my first lcd monitor could do that, back when they still were 5:4 aspect ratio. 37fps looks way smoother than 30fps.

Hmm, the actual games had a "37fps Mode"?
I'm vaguely aware that there were some kooky/adventurous works done in UK games (and modifications of existing games) to deal with PAL, but I've never heard of 37FPS mode or really much that specifically was placed to take advantage of over-60Hz monitors targeting 74Hz. (Granted, I'm not in Europe and am mostly a console gamer, so I'd be out of the loop... Google has nothing useful for 37FPS Mode or 74Hz Games, but Google sucks at most things before Google or not pertaining to the US... are you talking about a PAL TV, or am I off track even there?)

For sure there were PC games that let you run at a higher framerate when PC monitors started going into 75/90/120Hz (and that roughly translated to "framerate" in the US and exactly translated to framerate in PAL regions,) but I always assumed that was them taking advantage of unlocked framerates rather than specific framerates, and then to specifically target a half-framerate on a high-framerate monitor seems to be unusual thinking to me... smart, but not the way they were thinking back then, they usually just cranked everything up as high as it could go and hoped your machine could handle it.

Also to consider: I believe we're talking about interlaced screens in that time? Over-60Hz displays were coming out before progressive scan came into regular practice. And an interlaced realtime graphic is a different challenge from a full-frame progressive scan picture.

But yes, running at 74Hz would look better, provided the game could keep up with it; you'd get a lot more frames per second, you'd have the increase of direct responsiveness, and it'd look different from a "regular game", so it would be a good break from convention for your eyes too.
 
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Both Spider-Man Remastered and Miles Morales updated with the new 120 Hz 40 fps patch last night so I briefly tried the former (since I didn't need to swap discs) and was pleasantly surprised at how 60 fps-like the new 40 fps mode feels in play. in Fidelity mode. I haven't played Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart in months so had forgotten how well this mode works. Spider-Man already had a very smooth 30 fps mode anyway so this just helps the game feel more like it is running at 60 fps and it is very noticeable how much smoother the game looks due to the fact that the camera is often moving rapidly in this game as Spider-Man swings about and fights.

This mode should be added to all PS5 (and Xbox Series X|S) games in my opinion as an additional mode for those people who don't have VRR compatible TVs or monitors but have displays that support 120 Hz. This would work great in Horizon: Forbidden West for example, allowing the developers to add a 4K checkerboard or 4K dynamic resolution for the Graphics mode and finally offer a fix for the shimmering issue they have been working to resolve (1600p checkerboard is simply too low a resolution for the amount of detail that game has).
 

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
This is the new thing on Steam Deck, too, just done slightly different. Force display to 40Hz and get the game to target 40fps. In terms of frametimes, it’s halfway between 30fps and 60fps, so smoother gameplay without judder.
 
This is the new thing on Steam Deck, too, just done slightly different. Force display to 40Hz and get the game to target 40fps. In terms of frametimes, it’s halfway between 30fps and 60fps, so smoother gameplay without judder.

Yes, the frametime is exactly in-between (25ms) so it's actually like having 45 fps
 
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TrebleShot

Member
Tried it out this morning on my LG C9 it’s legit, Spider Man full fidelity mode at 40fps looks and feels sensational.

I hope the other games receiving patches will also have similar modes.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
These extra modes are a big deal, Spiderman feels so much better at 40fps, people who dismissed this as a Band-Aid are in for a rude awakening.
Hopefully we can benchmark just how high the framerate can go with VRR, if it's in the fifties constantly it will be a big bonus.
 

The_Mike

Member
Some 60fps games feel like ass to play for me, but I haven't really seen anyone else complain about it (Resident Evil Village felt horrible to me, might be input lag? Unless its meant to feel like that to play).
I personally don't mind 30fps games, I played Valhalla and some others at 30, including Spider-Man.
Would have been worse with 30 fps either way, since latency would be doubled,makjng input lag even worse.
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
While I do prefer 60 FPS and wish getting the game looking as good as possible at this frame rate was the focus of the generation. I do agree that due to the way the refresh works aiming for 40 is a much better compromise than 30 if we have to stick to our lower frame rate guns.

So I think its great that insomniac is going forward with patching this into there other titles. Now if we could just get this from other developers on the platform.
 
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The great thing about the 40 fps / 120 Hz mode is that you can use the highest Graphics setting and resolution (and with ray-tracing) rather than have to sacrifice resolution or graphical settings to achieve a locked 60 fps. It's not quite as good as 60 fps but it feels so much better than 30 fps that it is much easier to adjust to even when switching between 40 and 60 fps.

It is clear at this point that the consoles (and even PCs for that matter) are not powerful enough to render native 4K with all the trimmings including ray-tracing so this is a great compromise, one that will be even better with VRR support.

Quite why more developers aren't using 40 fps / 120 Hz is a mystery to me as it seems to work great in Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart and what I played of Spider-Man Remastered last night. There are a lot of PC monitors out there that support 120 Hz but don't support VRR so this could be a great thing to have for people who own those.
 
that is an EXTREMELY rare thing. almost any 120hz+ display has VRR of some kind.
I have a basic LG LED TV that I use as a monitor that happens to have 120hz but no FreeSync or VRR. It says it should only be able to do 1080p 120fps but it actually work for 1440p as well. It's great for using with the PC and for old/light games.

I like the idea that if a game struggles to be locked at 60 I have the option to lock it at 40fps. But when that happens I usually just play on my monitor that has FreeSync.
 
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