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Aloy is the single biggest problem with the Horizon franchise to me

Drizzlehell

Banned
When I first approached Forbidden West, it was with a preconceived notion that it's gonna be just more of the same stuff that the first game already had to offer, and that there was very little that it improved upon compared to its predecessor. Now, to give credit where its due, the first game had an extremely intriguing lore and uncovering it throughout the campaign was probably the most engaging thing about the game. The thing that let it down, however, was an extremely bland protagonist that I never managed to connect with.

It's important to understand that a game like this lives or dies on whether you will be able to connect with the main character because this is the person that will be your guide through this strange world and she will serve as a conduit for your emotional investment in the story. If you don't give a shit about the main character because she's as lively and engaging as a brick wall, and her emotional range makes me wish that I was watching Brie Larson as Captain Marvel, then you might as well be watching paint dry on a winter day. And this unfortunately spoils every other character surrounding your protagonist because every interaction that she has throughout the game is just so flat an awkward that it's like watching a giraffe trying to fit in with a pack of sheep.

She really is the focal point of all the problems I have with this franchise because what's interesting about Forbidden West is that the writers managed to vastly improve upon the characters in the game, except for Aloy. She's pretty much the same po-faced Mary Sue with a single-minded determination to save the world as she was in the last game, and she's basically represents this tired trope of a strong female character that can do anything she wants and she has no flaws or desires whatsoever. There's literally nothing about her that would be even remotely interesting. They even had to bring another clone of hers on board in order to introduce some much-needed character drama because Aloy herself is so perfect that there was no internal conflict that she could overcome and grow as a character. I was way more invested in the events of the game, because - once again - the overarching world-ending conflict and lore were the main driving force behind the plot, and they significantly grew in scope and stakes.

And it's a really big shame to have such a bland protagonist because this is a franchise that has all the potential in the world to be one of the most memorable ones that Sony produced in the last two generations. The game is chock-full of memorable missions and set pieces, and the secondary characters were all pretty interesting for the most part. The gameplay, environmental storytelling, and level design were all improved significantly. The map in Forbidden West is a fascinating world to explore, and the refined combat coupled with new enemy designs made it so that I was rarely bored while roaming the map and completing random side missions. The variety of scenery and vastly increased level of detail in the environments made the sandbox much more fun and engaging. The addition of the Sunwing was also great, and being able to lift off the ground and traverse the map from the air was a feeling comparable to that of flying a helicopter in Vice City after spending the entirety of GTA III dreaming about it.

And if that wasn't enough, I recently played through Call of The Mountain and that game only solidified that sentiment for me because it was a chance to immerse myself in this world and look at it through the eyes of a much more lively and relatable character.

It's an aspect that I hope Guerrilla will put more effort into in the future to finally make Aloy more appealing.
 
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Drizzlehell

Banned
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NecrosaroIII

Ask me about my terrible takes on Star Trek characters
100%, though after playing Call of the Mountain I think it's just how Guerella Games writes their protagonists.

The big problem is that Guerella games assumes their audience are fucking moron retards. They don't trust their players to think at all, and so they force feed them everything.

They're good at world design and lore. Good at gameplay. But they have to learn trust. They have no subtly in their writing.

"Why did [x] do this? It doesn't make sense.. He must be feeling guilty... And ashamed. The only reason he'd do this if he was trying to redeem his honor".

No shit. Don't spell out everything. Then there is perpetual shit like "I have to see the Sun King in Meridian... Never thought I'd go there." "I really should head to Meridian.... Being around people scares me" type shit.

It's embarassing.
 
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nowhat

Member
And if that wasn't enough, I recently played through Call of The Mountain and that game only solidified that sentiment for me because it was a chance to immerse myself in this world and look at it through the eyes of a much more lively and relatable character.
I still haven't finished Call of the Mountain currently at the second Thunderjaw, so I'm assuming I'm quite near the end, but as far as generic main characters go, he's like right up there at the top. If you don't care about the Horizon lore, he's nothing, not interesting in any aspect and the quips are so generic. And even if you are into the lore, there are still very few fucks to be given when it comes to the main plot.

I mean, robo dinos in VR, hell yeah, who wouldn't be up for that. But when it comes to characterization and story, there really is nothing there, at least for me. Also, too much climbing, as entertaining as it can be initially and in small doses, but that's game mechanics so I digress.
 

Fbh

Member
You should probably spoiler tag the bit about the other clone.
But yeah I agree. Aloy is really boring and bland, she is like "neutral good" to the point she is devoid of any sort of personality or fun character trait. Forbidden West has a ton of optional dialogue but it becomes increasingly hard to care about any of it because the way Aloy interacts with everyone is so flat and to the point. I've seen people defend it by saying the first game explains why she is socially awkward, but while that is true IMO explaining why a character is awkward doesn't magically make them enjoyable to watch for 50 hours.

For example I'd have been way more into the plot if Sylens had been the main character (rip Lance :messenger_pensive: )
 

Mossybrew

Member
Aloy is really boring and bland, she is like "neutral good" to the point she is devoid of any sort of personality or fun character trait. Forbidden West has a ton of optional dialogue but it becomes increasingly hard to care about any of it because the way Aloy interacts with everyone is so flat and to the point.
Yeah, exactly. I love these games but it's a shame the main character doesn't have more ... character. I'd love to see the series continue and move past Aloy's story at some point.
 

Hunnybun

Member
You should probably spoiler tag the bit about the other clone.
But yeah I agree. Aloy is really boring and bland, she is like "neutral good" to the point she is devoid of any sort of personality or fun character trait. Forbidden West has a ton of optional dialogue but it becomes increasingly hard to care about any of it because the way Aloy interacts with everyone is so flat and to the point. I've seen people defend it by saying the first game explains why she is socially awkward, but while that is true IMO explaining why a character is awkward doesn't magically make them enjoyable to watch for 50 hours.

For example I'd have been way more into the plot if Sylens had been the main character (rip Lance :messenger_pensive: )

I think Sylens is literally the only interesting character in the whole franchise. Erend I suppose has something of a personality, but I wouldn't really call him interesting.

It's funny because throughout the game they reintroduce 'favourite' characters from the first game, and I could never recall anything about them.

There's this overpowering earnestness to the games that's just exhausting.
 

Gambit2483

Member
Basically he doesn't like how she talks a lot about what she needs to do or what just happened.

But it's cool when Spider-Man does it.
 

Hunnybun

Member
Well then maybe we blame the actress, the writers and VA director. Because she’s all sorts of bad at delivering lines.

I'd also claim that she's a straightforwardly *bad* voice actress, in that her voice is literally weak and lacking in resonance. Half the time I missed what she was saying because it just blended into the ambient soundtrack.
 
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Chronicle

Member
Yup she's a terrible actress. A lifeless personality with way too much seriousness and a monotone voice. Most likely terrible to party with. Should've made her fun and flirty. She's a reverse ugly duckling too.
 

Ansphn

Member
They should go full RPG and let you create your character from one of the tribes. Aloy can still be in the game in some form but she shouldn't have to save the world alone. Plus she does talk too much.

A few things that would improve Horizon and it's industry leading open-world engine:

1. Create your own character.
2. Chance to fight Aloy at some point.
3. Darker themes introduced.
4.Better human vs human combat. Blocks and parries.
5. Pick your own responses to situations, questions, etc
6. Unique mini-bosses (I don't want to fight the snake and bat all the time)
7. Unique bosses and boss encounters
 
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Goon_Bong

Member
Most of the voice acting in this game has a high school drama class vibe to it, but it's funny the point was made about Aloy trying to 'save the world' - I was doing a side mission just last night and thought to myself she is just a yes-girl taking care of everyone's shit chores they don't want to do themselves.
 
I don't rely on Guerilla Games for compelling main characters. They'll get it right one day, but until then I doubt many people here confidently remembers the names of the protagonists from Killzone 1, 2, 3, and Shadowfall without doing a quick google search to remember.

Also, you can be that one guy who quotes me and says 'I remember, it's _____' but that doesn't change the probability that the majority don't remember.
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
I still haven't finished Call of the Mountain currently at the second Thunderjaw, so I'm assuming I'm quite near the end, but as far as generic main characters go, he's like right up there at the top. If you don't care about the Horizon lore, he's nothing, not interesting in any aspect and the quips are so generic. And even if you are into the lore, there are still very few fucks to be given when it comes to the main plot.

I mean, robo dinos in VR, hell yeah, who wouldn't be up for that. But when it comes to characterization and story, there really is nothing there, at least for me. Also, too much climbing, as entertaining as it can be initially and in small doses, but that's game mechanics so I digress.
Hell, at this point I'll take a character that's at least quippy and doesn't sound like he's on Prozac all the time. At least it's something you can latch onto, as opposed to the complete charisma void that is Aloy.
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
I don't rely on Guerilla Games for compelling main characters. They'll get it right one day, but until then I doubt many people here confidently remembers the names of the protagonists from Killzone 1, 2, 3, and Shadowfall without doing a quick google search to remember.

Also, you can be that one guy who quotes me and says 'I remember, it's _____' but that doesn't change the probability that the majority don't remember.
Funny. It's not that I think those characters were super well written or anything, but I actually do remember their names off the top of my head: Templar, Luger, Rico, and Hakka. Oh and Sev from the second game, but that's probably because Rico was yelling my character's name at me so much throughout these games.

Don't ask me about any characters from Shadowfall, though, because that was probably the most forgettable game in the history of first person shooters.
 

BlackTron

Member
I agree but not enough to write all that over lol. I don't think the game was that incredible anyway so I didn't feel like Aloy was ruining that much (the original, I haven't played FW).

Aloy felt like the game itself, something like a "Kirkland Signature Brand" original AAA game/IP. Which is why I didn't play the sequel yet, people say it's more of the same but better gfx.
 

Fbh

Member
I think Sylens is literally the only interesting character in the whole franchise. Erend I suppose has something of a personality, but I wouldn't really call him interesting.

It's funny because throughout the game they reintroduce 'favourite' characters from the first game, and I could never recall anything about them.

There's this overpowering earnestness to the games that's just exhausting.

Yup.
Late into the game you get to interact more with him and I remember thinking "this guy is a more interesting and compelling character than Aloy and all her friends"

I don't rely on Guerilla Games for compelling main characters. They'll get it right one day, but until then I doubt many people here confidently remembers the names of the protagonists from Killzone 1, 2, 3, and Shadowfall without doing a quick google search to remember.

Also, you can be that one guy who quotes me and says 'I remember, it's _____' but that doesn't change the probability that the majority don't remember.

True.
But Killzone wasn't nearly as story focused as Horizon so it wasn't as much of an issue. There's probably more hours of Aloy talking to people in Forbidden West than the entire duration of any of the Killzone campaigns

And to be fair to Guerilla I do think they have improved their writing. Horizon has a more interesting plot and characters than Killzone ever did (except for the cool backstory which they never used in the games).

But for some reason they decided to make make Aloy the worst character in her own franchise
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
Yup she's a terrible actress. A lifeless personality with way too much seriousness and a monotone voice. Most likely terrible to party with. Should've made her fun and flirty. She's a reverse ugly duckling too.
Idk, she was pretty fun in that old YouTube series that she did with her brother who wrote Borderlands 2 and then got cucked by his wife or something.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
While I didn’t read all of that novel … alloy is fine. Idc much about the story for a game like this, but she’s no different tan dude bro # 24566. 🤷‍♂️
 
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Loomy

Thinks Microaggressions are Real
she's basically represents this tired trope of a strong female character that can do anything she wants and she has no flaws or desires whatsoever.
I think she has a pretty big flaw. She suffers from "Only I can fix this" syndrome. So she ends up pushing everyone away and not letting anyone in. That's a problem that she kind of comes to terms with in the game and somewhat gets over.

You're not wrong though. I think the problem with Aloy is that she appears to be designed/written to be halfway between a passive silent protagonist that doesn't impose too much of herself onto the story, and an opinionated character. The problem is that the story demands she has an opinion and a point of view on the world and the plot. Guerilla needs to lean towards making her a more active participant in her own story since it's too late to lean silent. Especially in a 3rd person game.
 
I got the plat on both games and I agree with you. The games are great because of the gameplay loop of destroying dinos and parts of the game world are very cool. But I basically ignore the plot because it’s insane, and all of the side characters are forgettable and worthless. There are more memorable side missions in the second game, but that’s only because they added like a million side quests and tasks and jobs and shit. Most of it is still D tier.

GG has never been great at writing. As great as the KZ2 visuals and MP were, the SP story sucked and I don’t remember anything from KZ3. Lots of bad stories in Forbidden West, too. One thing that was bizarre was seeing basically every male character thirst for Aloy hard and she basically ignores them all and they all get butthurt about it. She really is flawless in the game. She has no limit on what she can do, she’s just limited by what weapons and equipment you give her. It’s worse because the game is presented as an RPG but there is really no big progress on her abilities or character from start to end.
 
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