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AMD confirms Radeon 7000 (RDNA3) will have increased power consumption

winjer

Member

“The demand for gaming and compute performance is, if anything, just accelerating, and at the same time, the underlying process technology is slowing down pretty dramatically — and the improvement rate. So the power levels are just going to keep going up. Now, we’ve got a multi-year roadmap of very significant efficiency improvements to offset that curve, but the trend is there.” […]

“Performance is king, but even if our designs are more power-efficient, that doesn’t mean you don’t push power levels up if the competition is doing the same thing. It’s just that they’ll have to push them a lot higher than we will.”

— Sam Naffziger, AMD’s Senior Vice President, Corporate Fellow, and Product Technology Architect

We already had news about the RTX 4000 having greater power usage, and now we get the confirmation that RDNA3 will also increase power usage. The question is how much it will increase.
This is not good news for people who want a cool and quiet system. It's neither good, at a time when prices for energy are going up.
It's also not good news for mid-gen console refreshes, whether they'll use RDNA3 or RDNA4.
I wonder if we'll see the Pro consoles going close to 300 watts.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
I’m fine with mid gen refreshes requiring more power. Unless there’s some kind of law or something that prevents it, I don’t really mind.
 

Leo9

Member



We already had news about the RTX 4000 having greater power usage, and now we get the confirmation that RDNA3 will also increase power usage. The question is how much it will increase.
This is not good news for people who want a cool and quiet system. It's neither good, at a time when prices for energy are going up.
It's also not good news for mid-gen console refreshes, whether they'll use RDNA3 or RDNA4.

I wonder if we'll see the Pro consoles going close to 300 watts.
"AMD is confident in its RDNA3 claims with >50% better power efficiency over RDNA2"

It's great news actually. That's a massive increase.
Power is going up because performance will be up way more than 50%.
I think a 7700XT will be able to outperform a 6900 while using less power.
 
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winjer

Member
"AMD is confident in its RDNA3 claims with >50% better power efficiency over RDNA2"

It's great news actually. That's a massive increase.
Power is going up because performance will be up way more than 50%.

RDNA3 is on N5. RNDA2 was on N7.
Ada Lovelace is also in N5. Seems like both AMD and nVidia re using the advantages of the N5 to just increase clock speeds.

TSMC’s N5 technology is TSMC’s second available EUV process technology, to enable our customers’ innovations for both smartphone and HPC applications. As the foundry industry’s most advanced solution with the best performance, power and area (PPA), N5 technology provides about 20% faster speed than N7 technology or about 40% power reduction. N5 technology further expands our customer product portfolio and increases our addressable markets.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
Who would have thought that 1200 watt psu would be required for single card configurations and not sli.

Maybe, if it goes too far we will see devs focus on gameplay and other breakthroughs in physics and ssd tech instead of just adding more bells and whistles on similar playing games.

Who knows.
 

Leo9

Member
RDNA3 is on N5. RNDA2 was on N7.
Ada Lovelace is also in N5. Seems like both AMD and nVidia re using the advantages of the N5 to just increase clock speeds.
N5 does not provide >50% increase in performance per watt over N7, not even close.
N5 offers 15% more performance at Iso power or 30% less power at iso performance according to TSMC.
N5P is a bit better, but not by much.
RDNA3 N31 should be over 70% faster compared to N21, so yeah, power consumption will increase, but efficiency looks great.
 
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winjer

Member
N5 does not provide >50% increase in performance per watt over N7, not even close.
N5 offers 15% more performance at Iso power or 30% less power at iso performance according to TSMC.
N5P is a bit better, but not by much.

Nope, the numbers are "N5 technology provides about 20% faster speed than N7 technology or about 40% power reduction."
This is a direct quote from TSMC.

And mind you I didn't say N5 gives 50% increase in performance per watt.
 

OZ9000

Member
I want a powerful system that is also cool and quiet.

Gaming is getting retarded at this point.

Next up: 2000W PSU requirement for RTX 5090.

I'm already shocked to see how much juice the RTX 3080 requires. It's extremely power hungry. It's also loud and hot.
 
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Schmick

Member
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We already had news about the RTX 4000 having greater power usage, and now we get the confirmation that RDNA3 will also increase power usage. The question is how much it will increase.
This is not good news for people who want a cool and quiet system. It's neither good, at a time when prices for energy are going up.
It's also not good news for mid-gen console refreshes, whether they'll use RDNA3 or RDNA4.
I wonder if we'll see the Pro consoles going close to 300 watts.
Is this the end of small form factor?
 

Irobot82

Member
All those wanting cool and quiet or SFF all you need to do is downclock by 5-10% tops. It's always those last few percentages that requires a massive wattage increase. The efficiency is in the curve.
 

winjer

Member
One solution is to undervolt the GPU.
For example, it's possible to reduce power usage of a 3090 by almost 100W, while just losing a bit of performance.



 
Thank god they finally are doing something about it.
The EU has a regulation how much power a console is allowed to draw yet theres no regulation yet for CPU/GPU power draw for consumer products.
Once such regulations begin spreading around the globe (or at least in some of the more important markets) the manufacturers of these products will be forced to make more efficient architectures/products.
 
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TrueLegend

Member
I remember the new consoles were first marketed as 4K120FPS and well this is what it costs for that kind of performance. And with transient spikes accounted for 4090 will need 1500w for whole system.
 

GHG

Member
This gen I was considering the 3080 in a SFF build, but since we are now close to the 40xx series releasing I thought I would wait.

If that's the case you should still wait. The xx70/80 series might still be ok and they I'll be more powerful than their current counterparts.
 

JackSparr0w

Member
Thank god they finally are doing something about it.
The EU has a regulation how much power a console is allowed to draw yet theres no regulation yet for CPU/GPU power draw for consumer products.
Once such regulations begin spreading around the globe (or at least in some of the more important markets) the manufacturers of these products will be forced to make more efficient architectures/products.
You should never cherish on government regulations on such things. All you'll get is less performance to "save the environment" while the rich pay as much as you earn in a year to heat up their swimming pools.
 
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GHG

Member
Thank god they finally are doing something about it.
The EU has a regulation how much power a console is allowed to draw yet theres no regulation yet for CPU/GPU power draw for consumer products.
Once such regulations begin spreading around the globe (or at least in some of the more important markets) the manufacturers of these products will be forced to make more efficient architectures/products.

Nanny state governments are not going to help drive efficiency. Never have, never will. All that will happen in the mean time though is that you'll get restricted choice as a consumer. So hope you enjoy that in the meantime.
 
Has nothing to do with capitalism. California's regulation is due to their poorly planned power grid. As it is, California has to force power outages in order to make sure crucial services like hospitals continue to have power.
California knows what they are talking about. See the everyone should be plugging in their vehicles overnight because they have a never ending supply of electricity.
 
Has nothing to do with capitalism. California's regulation is due to their poorly planned power grid. As it is, California has to force power outages in order to make sure crucial services like hospitals continue to have power.
I wonder now, whos providing this so called electricity and under what kind of system are they operating?
Make It Rain Laughing GIF


As far as I know, the californian electricity providers are actually making more money when they are operating the way they do. Because providing a stable and efficient energy grid isn't acutally at their best economic interest.
 

Topher

Gold Member
I wonder now, whos providing this so called electricity and under what kind of system are they operating?


As far as I know, the californian electricity providers are actually making more money when they are operating the way they do. Because providing a stable and efficient energy grid isn't acutally at their best economic interest.

California is targeting 100% clean energy using solar and wind, which is admirable, but they simply don't have the supply to meet the demand. So no, again, not about money or capitalism. This is about poor planning on the part of the state government. It isn't some evil corporation reselling energy from the sun. The problem, ultimately, is they do not have the storage capacity to meet demand during peak hours.
 
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California is targeting 100% clean energy using solar and wind, which is admirable, but they don't have they simply don't have the supply to meet the demand. So no, again, not about money or capitalism. This is about poor planning on the part of the state government. It isn't some evil corporation reselling energy from the sun. The problem, ultimately, is they do not have the storage capacity to meet demand during peak hours.
Yeah I'm sorry, i actually mixed it up with texas.
 
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FireFly

Member
Is this the end of small form factor?
There will still be 300W GPUs. The 7800 XT may be 300W even.

Edit:

Nope, the numbers are "N5 technology provides about 20% faster speed than N7 technology or about 40% power reduction."
This is a direct quote from TSMC.

And mind you I didn't say N5 gives 50% increase in performance per watt.
Right, though 20% higher clocks only gives you 20% more performance per watt. So if AMD are pushing clocks as high as they can go, the bulk of the performance per watt improvement comes from elsewhere.
 
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winjer

Member
Right, though 20% higher clocks only gives you 20% more performance per watt. So if AMD are pushing clocks as high as they can go, the bulk of the performance per watt improvement comes from elsewhere.

Did you ever see me say in this forum, that RDNA3woulkd not have any IPC improvements?
 

FireFly

Member
Did you ever see me say in this forum, that RDNA3woulkd not have any IPC improvements?
No, but increasing IPC doesn't necessarily improve performance per watt. I was just trying to clarify the benefits of moving to 5nm for efficiency, not necessarily disagreeing with you.
 
As long as there are IPC improvements console mid gen updates might just opt to not draw as many watts and have lower frequencies. If the rumors for 4090 are true it might go past the 100 TFlop threshold while PS5 is sitting at 10 TFlops. That's quite a generational leap, a PS5 pro probably doesn't have to go past 20/25 Tflops.

Doesn't hurt the fact that they'll be an improvement nonetheless... and, to be fair judging from last generation, they didn't screw around much with the CPU, just the GPU.

I think more people want a smaller PS5 than a more powerful PS5 at this point.
 

Celcius

°Temp. member
To all the people who are talking about transient spikes- is this because you recently watched the new GamersNexus video? I think this is going to become a popular buzzword…



As for me: I’ll stick with my RTX 3090 and see how much mileage I can get out of it while watching the new cards use more and more power I guess. I wish the industry wasn’t headed in this direction.
 
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Buggy Loop

Member
I want a powerful system that is also cool and quiet.

Gaming is getting retarded at this point.

Next up: 2000W PSU requirement for RTX 5090.

I'm already shocked to see how much juice the RTX 3080 requires. It's extremely power hungry. It's also loud and hot.

What?

I have the 3080 TI assis TUF undervolted in a Meshilicious case (SFFPC) and I almost don’t hear the fans and it’s staying at 62~64 degrees.

It’s in fact less loud than the 1060 6GB EVGA single fan I had before.

The under volt removes ~90W for the same performance.
 

Sanepar

Member
As long as there are IPC improvements console mid gen updates might just opt to not draw as many watts and have lower frequencies. If the rumors for 4090 are true it might go past the 100 TFlop threshold while PS5 is sitting at 10 TFlops. That's quite a generational leap, a PS5 pro probably doesn't have to go past 20/25 Tflops.

Doesn't hurt the fact that they'll be an improvement nonetheless... and, to be fair judging from last generation, they didn't screw around much with the CPU, just the GPU.

I think more people want a smaller PS5 than a more powerful PS5 at this point.
Nvidia tflops is half amd tflops nowadays. So comparing 4090 ti perf directly to ps5 would be 50tf vs 10tf

7900 xt will be 46-54 tflops probably at 400w
7800 xt 36-42 tflops probably at 300w

Even if u consider possible pro models on rdna4 these gen will not gonna catch these cards.
 

kikkis

Member
Maybe we could see better performance gains if gpus got rid of legacy pipelines like tesselation, geometry shaders and raytracing and emulated those with compute instead.
 
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winjer

Member
Nvidia tflops is half amd tflops nowadays. So comparing 4090 ti perf directly to ps5 would be 50tf vs 10tf

7900 xt will be 46-54 tflops probably at 400w
7800 xt 36-42 tflops probably at 300w

Even if u consider possible pro models on rdna4 these gen will not gonna catch these cards.

Not so much. Turing and RDNA1 and 2, were almost on par in performance per TFLOP.
But Turing had dedicated Int32 units, that didn't count to the TFLOPs figure.
Ampere replaced those units with units that could do Int and FP calculations, and counted for the whole TFLOP count.
So basically, one Ampere TFLOP is worth around 64% of one Turing and RDNA TFLOP. At lest on rasterization.

But Ada Lovelace and RDNA3 are sure to have IPC improvements, so these figures will change again.
This is why comparing TFLOPs is not the best way to compare different GPU architectures.
 

Kataploom

Member
I'm legit worried about power consumption (well, about my bills) and want to know if not maxing out a GPU can make it consume less, i.e.: Instead of using all of its power to run a game at 120 fps (given enough other components), I run it at 60 fps. Or if it's idling mostly on normal usage out of gaming?
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
I mean my 2080 still does very well at 1440 and I am only comtemplating a new gpu because the fan header is busted. How much performance do we really need to go so overboard with TPD ?
 
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