I'm sure he'll be back if Alder Lake reclaims the gaming crown. For at at least the few months until AMD's 3D V-Cache chips launch.AndLeonidas has gone again.
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AMD Processors Lose 15% Gaming Performance with Windows 11, L3 Cache Latency Tripled (Was a bug, fix incoming)
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
That's cool because I'm digging 11 and all my stuff runs well.
nightmare-slain
Member
i know it's "just a bug" but this is why i ditched AMD. i'm happy they lit a fire under Intel's ass but AMD platforms are riddled with issues. if you can get them working they are great but that's the problem. i spend thousands upgrading systems to AMD and it was a nightmare. i think i sucked up about ~£200 loss per system. went with Intel again. they just don't have the same market share as intel and whatever you throw at it Intel will run with little or no issue. AMD needs some more time to mature and if they really want to truly compete with Intel they need to focus not just the gaming market but business. my work just dropped £1.7m on new PCs across 6 sites (~400 PCs per site) and guess what they chose? Intel. i wouldn't want my personal private (medical) information running on an AMD system if it was prone to issues.
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Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
OP's look whilst posting this topic:
Draugoth
Gold Member
AMD Processors Lose 15% Gaming Performance with Windows 11, L3 Cache Latency Tripled
Apparently, AMD processors officially compatible with Windows 11, exhibit a three-times increase in L3 cache latency with the new operating system. The new operating system is also found to break the "preferred cores" system on AMD processors (UEFI CPPC2), in which the two "best" CPU cores...www.techpowerup.com
Seems like Ryzen loses a massive 10-15% in Windows 11, with increased cache latencies.
Zen3 was only 1-2% faster than Intel previously, so it seems that they could be behind in the double digits of percentages, compared to the fastest Intel CPUs, now.
This is why you dont get new OS at release lol.
Pretty sure it's getting fixed
Well, most people won't notice as most of the time they are GPU limited and not CPU limited.
It is a bug and it will be fixed.
The problem with a new OS is always, you can only find those errors if users use the OS. Drivers etc will have a priority if the OS is used so a new OS has always the "chicken<->egg" problem.
So far it works quite well. Well, it is a windows 10 with a new UI but still quite ok for a 20 minutes upgrade without reinstalling anything.
Epic Sax CEO
Banned
As good as Alder Lake may be, it may not perform so well on games because of memory latency issues. Same reason why Gen 11 often lost to Gen 10.
Chiggs
Member
Prediction: Wins in single-threading; loses in multi-threading.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
What release? It's still beta/pre-release...
ZoukGalaxy
Member
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PhoenixTank
Member
Amusingly, some of the rumours are the exact flip of that. Strong results in multithreaded and production workloads we've seen. Good single threaded in what I'd class as non-latency sensitive production workloads.
There is room for gaming be meh there... but could easily be twitter BS.
Chiggs
Member
At this point, I've read so many leaked benchmarks that point to either an incredible comeback by Intel, or a processor that can trade blows with the 5900 and 5950x, but loses more than it wins, that I'm bowing out until launch day.
I am rooting for Intel, though. I can't deny I want them to rock the boat and start punching back.
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Excess
Member
Thanks for posting that. I think they announced this last weekend, but this thread went on without anyone even mentioning that AMD and Microsoft were working on it.
Having said that, I've stayed clear of major Windows releases at a minimum of 30 days ever since I remember reading about an update that was deleting shit from people's hard drives. There is absolutely no substitute for real-world application of any sort; entropy always assumes control.
Chiggs
Member
It was addressed several times on the first page, and the mods added a comment in the very first post.
Sleepwalker
Member
Have windows 11 for over a month now on my ryzen cpu gaming laptop (ryzen 7 5800 + 3060)
Have noticed 0 impact on performance when playing. Actually really like windows 11
Have noticed 0 impact on performance when playing. Actually really like windows 11
Chiggs
Member
Fix has been released for people on Windows Insider (beta and release profiles).
www.zdnet.com
So far, so good for me.
Microsoft fixes AMD CPU performance issue with new Windows 11 test build
Microsoft has fixed part of a problem affecting performance of apps on Windows 11 on AMD Ryzen processors and is testing that fix with Insiders in the Beta and Release Preview channels.
www.zdnet.com
So far, so good for me.
winjer
Gold Member
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Md Ray
Member
Are there any benefits in keeping CPPC enabled in BIOS for Zen 2 CPUs?
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
If this would only fix my inability to OC my memory and CPU anymore. I can run stock all core 4.5OC but my 400USD+ corsair vengeance 3600 only runs at 2133 and it has run with XMP before but just stopped working 5~ months ago.
winjer
Gold Member
Yes. This option allows Windows to know which CPU cores can clock higher, so it will tend to assign heavier work threads to these cores, so it can be done faster.
It's not a huge difference, but it helps a bit.
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nemiroff
Gold Member
The fixes are officially out for everyone now btw
Windows 11 update KB5006746 fully resolves the performance impact of Issue
AMD Chipset Driver 3.10.08.506 fully resolves the performance impact of Issue
As usual to just go chillin a bit instead of having a futile meltdown paid off yet again, no wasted energy here, lol.
Edit: Chipset here: AMD Ryzen™ Chipset Driver Release Notes (3.10.08.506) | AMD. Obviously go to Windows Update for the W11 update.
Windows 11 update KB5006746 fully resolves the performance impact of Issue
AMD Chipset Driver 3.10.08.506 fully resolves the performance impact of Issue
As usual to just go chillin a bit instead of having a futile meltdown paid off yet again, no wasted energy here, lol.
Edit: Chipset here: AMD Ryzen™ Chipset Driver Release Notes (3.10.08.506) | AMD. Obviously go to Windows Update for the W11 update.
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Epic Sax CEO
Banned
FUCK INTEL!
It's incredible, next people will discover that you can "fix" this issue by fooling Win11 into believing you have a "GenuineIntel" CPU.
It's incredible, next people will discover that you can "fix" this issue by fooling Win11 into believing you have a "GenuineIntel" CPU.
Insane Metal
Member
FUCK INTEL!
It's incredible, next people will discover that you can "fix" this issue by fooling Win11 into believing you have a "GenuineIntel" CPU.
And fuck Microsoft for allowing this to happen. Dirty motherfuckers, both of em.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
gimping AMD CPUs on purpose...............not cool
Good lord. Those tweets are really something else if true, and I've no reason to doubt HUB's findings on this.
That is going to throw off a lot of testing for a lot of outlets that aren't going to see this information.
I'll be sticking to Windows 10 for a while longer still. I had already planned to do so because of how unfinished 11 is by comparison, but this just reinforces that notion.
ethomaz
Banned
Is the bug fixed?
I want to upgrade to Windows 11 but I’m so bored to do that for the only laptop I have and that I doesn’t use at all
Last week I was doing nothing and installed in dual boot the Linux Elementary OS (it is similar to MacOS so I’m liking it but it is still several steps behind MacOS).
I want to upgrade to Windows 11 but I’m so bored to do that for the only laptop I have and that I doesn’t use at all
Last week I was doing nothing and installed in dual boot the Linux Elementary OS (it is similar to MacOS so I’m liking it but it is still several steps behind MacOS).
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I bet my ass that the drivers which talks to CPU are developed by people behind HW themselves, so I am not exactly surprised that AMD sucks in this regard. After all it was same with Win10 for a long time. I doubt that it's just MS issue. AMD is occasionally really bad in their SW ventures.
And I have AMD CPU, because when it works, it works well. But let's say whole AM4 platform feels like still in beta test.
If MS would be that bad, we wouldn't have AMD64 instruction set, but IA-64. It was exactly same MS who made this instruction set a preferential one.
But still there is a reason why Intel and nVidia dominates the market and it's not evil MS.
And I have AMD CPU, because when it works, it works well. But let's say whole AM4 platform feels like still in beta test.
If MS would be that bad, we wouldn't have AMD64 instruction set, but IA-64. It was exactly same MS who made this instruction set a preferential one.
But still there is a reason why Intel and nVidia dominates the market and it's not evil MS.
MS comes up with a new version of Windows. Sends out insider and developer preview versions of the OS for testing. AMD, NVIDiA, Intel et al are fully in the loop. Performance impacting issues like this should have been discovered by AMD and escalated for attention.
how in the world is this just becoming known to AMD/Microsoft with the release candidate?
99% of the blame lies with AMD, tbh.
how in the world is this just becoming known to AMD/Microsoft with the release candidate?
99% of the blame lies with AMD, tbh.
Epic Sax CEO
Banned
There's really no reason to upgrade to Windows 11, no real reason, only one is:
The audacity of some people...
The only real and relevant change in Windows 11 that it's a factor to decide to use it or not is the new scheduler tailor made to Alder Lake. If you have one of these new CPUs then you should use W11, if not you better stick with Win10.
It was always like this, Microsoft always preferred to prioritize how Intel CPUs worked since the fist dual core CPUs. There's not reason for this to be happening again, it's just an collateral effect of Microsoft again giving all priority and attention to Intel, if other's full be fucked by W11 bad behavior is just their bad luck.
This is unquestionable, W11 looks to be working on intended with Intel CPUs, the Thread Director that Intel inserted on Windows 11 is working as it should... it it's own CPU only. This is what it's fucked, it's a result of Microsoft changing how W11 works by Intel's request.
Wrong choice of worlds.
It's us here, the users, outside of all this that are only knowing now.
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I had Win11 for a while via the Insider program right from when it was available. So yeah, definitely agreed about there being no reason to "upgrade" to Windows 11 for a long, long while. Stupid amounts of bugs aside, it's just not a feature complete product. Not to mention the numerous design inconsistencies that will probably never be resolved.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I doubt that the solution is tailored to intel at low level, my guess is that as with previous iteration, the low level is build by the Intel/AMD themselves and since Intel generally have far more man power it's ready sooner. I mean Windows 10 Scheduler sucked hard even year ago for AMD system, AMD fixed it over time, I don't doubt that it's going to be same.
Also MS is also betting on ARM, so it does not make sense to tailor made it for intel. So I think the whole thing is nothing more than conspiracy theory, how someone, yet again, punishing the "proletariat CPU". People who buys AMD products, often suffer from persecution complex. Not saying that it's you tho.
This was reported in the Feedback HUB very VERY early on in during the Insider releases. Literally months ago. There was also a more generic "loss of performance" report in the Hub before it was narrowed down to the L3 cache issue. I've also seen it reported on Reddit quite a few times before release and how it was never fixed week after week of new Insider builds.
They knew. Neither of them said nor did anything until the OS was RTM. And if they were doing anything, neither of them said a damn thing about it. Both MS and AMD are equally to blame here.
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TheBomb
Member
nemiroff
Gold Member
So, despite everything, according to this video, W11 appears to be up to ~5% faster (HU's words) over W10 on AMD CPUs now. Interesting..
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CuteFaceJay
Member
Prolly because same people who did beta for Battlefield 2042 and just thought the performance loss was a feature and wrote it off as 'ItS JuSt A bEtA'
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i think he’s saying why this wasn’t caught by AMD, not folks like you.
Epic Sax CEO
Banned
The testing builds were already being fixed but Microsoft released an older version without those fixes because AMD CPUs aren't a priority.
People have to understand, the CPUs didn't changed, the system changed, and with the changes came new problems.
Only if you do clean installs, because if you update you may still lose 20% performance according to HU.
This isn't the only problem that W11 has, there's a bunch of things that where working before that stopped working with W11 to a lot of people. Really, isn't wise to rush to W11, it's better to wait until next year to switch to not be a beta tester.
That's untrue. For instance it has AutoHDR out of the box available. For W10 you need to download some insider build, at which point you could as well just upgrade to 11 altogether.Win11 doesn't give nothing new for gamers, just change number from 10 to 11
An early build of the fix was starting to be tested through the Insider Dev channel just a few weeks prior to the public release. The update was unfinished and totally untested at that point. You can even see reports from people showing that the fix didn't necessarily work for them and it did not work as well as the public release eventually did.
That's the point of the Insider Dev channel. They test the most bleeding edge of updates prior to the update moving to the Insider Beta channel, then Insider Release Preview channel, and then finally to the end consumers. If the update was untested and still needed refinement, OFC they weren't going to immediately slap it into the final public build.
From Dev it moves on to the Insider Beta channel where further testing is conducted, probably by a wider audience. Then finally it's tested in the Release Preview channel where final testing is conducted with an even larger audience. This has always been the case with nearly every single update released by Microsoft.
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