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Ampere Analysis: Console sales Q3 2021: PS5 supply improves bringing it closer to Switch

MonarchJT

Banned
No.

this thread sound really like your gif ahaha
 
Not sure why peopel are even comparing sony to nintendo when the latter is coming off a flop of a console. I love nintendo but they were pretty much forced to combine their portable market with their home console market because they were never gonna keep up with sony and microsoft.

Nintendos console hardware has been wildly inconsistent sales wise since the snes. Even if you combined the Wii-U and Switch sales they still would be far off from the PS4 numbers.

They aren’t a market leader for having two successful home consoles in the last 20 years
 
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Marty-McFly

Banned
Operating profits of PS1+PS2+PS3+PS4+PSV = $12.98Bn

Operating profits of Switch in just 4 years = $14.98Bn

Selling software at cheap price and giving away for free in from of bundle doesn't make you a leader.
Crazy when you put it in perspective like that.

Nintendo is a beast.
 

Dr Bass

Member
Ok, so these numbers are for FY2021, not FY2020. Nintendo did make a bigger profit than Playstation but Playstation’s revenue was $8B more than Nintendo. That’s in a year where covid hugely benefited Nintendo and Sony launched the PS5 at a loss.
Uh, who cares about comparative revenue when the profit differences are what they are?

Strictly from a business standpoint of course.
 

MrA

Member
Not sure why peopel are even comparing sony to nintendo when the latter is coming off a flop of a console. I love nintendo but they were pretty much forced to combine their portable market with their home console market because they were never gonna keep up with sony and microsoft.

Nintendos console hardware has been wildly inconsistent sales wise since the snes. Even if you combined the Wii-U and Switch sales they still would be far off from the PS4 numbers.

They aren’t a market leader for having two successful home consoles in the last 20 years
Switch plus wiiu is currently like 105 million and will probably be 115 million or so by January, ps4 isn't going to hit 120 million unless sony changes course and decides to revive the ps4 so wiiu plus switch will be in striking distance of ps4 by the end of the year and by next year switch will most likely have blown past ps4
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
I’m guessing your first couple sentences are sarcasm, since your last one is right on the money. Make games people actually want to play and sell them. People will buy. It’s so simple and so dead obvious.

All of this “we put you at the center of gaming” or “Sony and Nintendo aren’t ready for this disruption” is complete and utter horse crap when you can’t move product. These numbers are obviously pretty bad for one group. And the idea that there is a host of people wanting an Xbox Game Pass sub that doesn’t want, you know … an Xbox is ridiculous.

Just make creative, compelling games. Shut up and let your content do the talking. People won’t ignore that.

yup on the money, it’s so good to see Microsoft delivering incredible gaming experiences like they did back in the day. Forza Horizon 5 and Now halo infinite has done more for the brand in the last two weeks than all the fluff talking about services etc.

these games will sell for a long time on all services and drive game pass subscriptions etc. just keep delivering the big good games MS and you will be successful. Might not sell consoles but you will make shit tons across, cloud, console and pc.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Switch plus wiiu is currently like 105 million and will probably be 115 million or so by January, ps4 isn't going to hit 120 million unless sony changes course and decides to revive the ps4 so wiiu plus switch will be in striking distance of ps4 by the end of the year and by next year switch will most likely have blown past ps4
Switch + Wii U? What? You do not get to keep adding consoles to pad the numbers :p.
 

Marty-McFly

Banned
Nice flex. “Higher HW and SW sales” “Tsk, Nintendo has higher profits”. Congrats fellow shareholder :p.

I get profitability is key to long term health, but flexing on profits like this feels like saying: “see they are smart overcharging people!”.
Most of Nintendo's profits come from their armada of multimillion selling IP's.

It is true that their games don't go down in value the same as their competitors, but ultimately that's because consumers are willing to continue purchasing them at a high price, while other publisher's usually have to drop the value of their games like a stone to entice consumers and continue selling their games.
 
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Nice flex. “Higher HW and SW sales” “Tsk, Nintendo has higher profits”. Congrats fellow shareholder :p.

I get profitability is key to long term health, but flexing on profits like this feels like saying: “see they are smart overcharging people!”.
Overcharging would mean that people aren't paying it (since they'd feel it's too expensive). But they are. They're willing to pay that much money for the quality provided. The market is rarely wrong.

Or to put it differently, if Sony could charge a thousand bucks for the PS5 and get away with it, they totally would. But they simply can't, it would be overcharging.
 
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Most of Nintendo's profits come from their armada of multimillion selling IP's.

It is true that their games don't go down in value the same as their competitors, but ultimately that's because consumers are willing to continue purchasing them at a high price, while other publisher's usually have to drop the value of their games like a stone to entice consumers and continue selling their games.
Exactly. Sony would love to sell God of War for 60 bucks 3 years later, but people are simply not willing to pay that much for it. Nintendo doesn't have this problem, they have several old evergreens selling at full price all the time. That's what makes Nintendo so powerful.
 
Nice flex. “Higher HW and SW sales” “Tsk, Nintendo has higher profits”. Congrats fellow shareholder :p.

I get profitability is key to long term health, but flexing on profits like this feels like saying: “see they are smart overcharging people!”.
You got to respect Nintendo for that. Their games are cheaper, they don't have to spend insane amounts of money on marketing them and they can also sell them for years for 50 bucks+. This is no overcharging, Sony would do the exactly same thing, but they can't.
 

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
Wtf is this? :messenger_tears_of_joy:
What? its the truth.

Nintendo has been known to have shitty online services, even the hardcore nintendo fans knew that.

FFS, the first Switch does not even have a LAN port.....
 

AlexxKidd

Member
switch is currently at 681 million software without download-only games (Nintendo's total only includes downloads if they have a physical release)
at the same time in the ps4s life, it was at like 700 million total software with download-only games, and the switch does it without being the system of choice for the fifa/madden/cod/gta casuals without those 4 series the ps4's software total after 4.5 years would have only been in the 550 million range

What does this have to do with what I said? The fact that the Switch doesn't have those third parties you mentioned only goes to my point. Switch sells more Nintendo first party than Sony sells their first party. But don't get it twisted, Sony sells way more third party to more than make up for the difference.

Sony doesn't sell third party games, they do however get a modest commission for allowing third parties to host their software on Playstation.

It's not like selling hundreds of millions of first party games and getting all the profits.


Look at you, trying to be pedantic, "Sony doesn't sell third party games." As if you don't understand the English language. Actually funny to me. By the way, the article I quoted uses the same language. As do many other articles on the subject. And will continue to do so. Why? Because intelligent people know what is being said.

Sony's PlayStation 4 has sold over 1.5 billion games, beating any other platform in games industry history--including the PS2.

And yes, as far as profits...

Operating profits of PS1+PS2+PS3+PS4+PSV = $12.98Bn

Operating profits of Switch in just 4 years = $14.98Bn

Selling software at cheap price and giving away for free in from of bundle doesn't make you a leader.

Interesting of you to note operating profits, while neglecting to mention revenue. In fact, you dismiss what the PlayStation is doing as "selling software at a cheap price, giving away for free." I mean, you pretty much told on yourself there, I'm still laughing.

But it's good to know that you think Sony just made the biggest Q2 revenue in gaming history by giving games away for free. That's a good strategy? Why hasn't Microsoft tried that? Surely they could make the biggest Q2 revenue in gaming history with such a strategy. I have to imagine they have a couple of copies of Crackdown 3 lying around.

Switch does great in profits. I'm happy for them. But what does that have to do with Sony selling more games? Which is what I said. The only thing that tells you is Sony spends more money than Nintendo. Big whoop. That's not the gotcha you think it is. But then again, you also think the biggest Q2 revenue in gaming history came about by giving away games for free, so who know what you think.
 
What does this have to do with what I said? The fact that the Switch doesn't have those third parties you mentioned only goes to my point. Switch sells more Nintendo first party than Sony sells their first party. But don't get it twisted, Sony sells way more third party to more than make up for the difference.



Look at you, trying to be pedantic, "Sony doesn't sell third party games." As if you don't understand the English language. Actually funny to me. By the way, the article I quoted uses the same language. As do many other articles on the subject. And will continue to do so. Why? Because intelligent people know what is being said.

Sony's PlayStation 4 has sold over 1.5 billion games, beating any other platform in games industry history--including the PS2.

And yes, as far as profits...



Interesting of you to note operating profits, while neglecting to mention revenue. In fact, you dismiss what the PlayStation is doing as "selling software at a cheap price, giving away for free." I mean, you pretty much told on yourself there, I'm still laughing.

But it's good to know that you think Sony just made the biggest Q2 revenue in gaming history by giving games away for free. That's a good strategy? Why hasn't Microsoft tried that? Surely they could make the biggest Q2 revenue in gaming history with such a strategy. I have to imagine they have a couple of copies of Crackdown 3 lying around.

Switch does great in profits. I'm happy for them. But what does that have to do with Sony selling more games? Which is what I said. The only thing that tells you is Sony spends more money than Nintendo. Big whoop. That's not the gotcha you think it is. But then again, you also think the biggest Q2 revenue in gaming history came about by giving away games for free, so who know what you think.
I think you forgot to tell him, that Sony just made the biggest Q2 revenue in gaming history!!!!!
 

MrA

Member
What does this have to do with what I said? The fact that the Switch doesn't have those third parties you mentioned only goes to my point. Switch sells more Nintendo first party than Sony sells their first party. But don't get it twisted, Sony sells way more third party to more than make up for the difference.



Look at you, trying to be pedantic, "Sony doesn't sell third party games." As if you don't understand the English language. Actually funny to me. By the way, the article I quoted uses the same language. As do many other articles on the subject. And will continue to do so. Why? Because intelligent people know what is being said.

Sony's PlayStation 4 has sold over 1.5 billion games, beating any other platform in games industry history--including the PS2.

And yes, as far as profits...



Interesting of you to note operating profits, while neglecting to mention revenue. In fact, you dismiss what the PlayStation is doing as "selling software at a cheap price, giving away for free." I mean, you pretty much told on yourself there, I'm still laughing.

But it's good to know that you think Sony just made the biggest Q2 revenue in gaming history by giving games away for free. That's a good strategy? Why hasn't Microsoft tried that? Surely they could make the biggest Q2 revenue in gaming history with such a strategy. I have to imagine they have a couple of copies of Crackdown 3 lying around.

Switch does great in profits. I'm happy for them. But what does that have to do with Sony selling more games? Which is what I said. The only thing that tells you is Sony spends more money than Nintendo. Big whoop. That's not the gotcha you think it is. But then again, you also think the biggest Q2 revenue in gaming history came about by giving away games for free, so who know what you think.
Ahhhh, at the same point in its life, the switch is neck and neck with if not ahead with software sales as ps4, shouldn't have been too challenging to figure that out, switch is just as good as ps4 for 3rd parties and that's without big hitters
and sonys revenue, most of it is microtransactions and subscriptions, , normally the bane of gamers existence
 

Woopah

Member
Longer with the chip shortages which are said to last three more years, Sony cannot as easily produce PS5's as Nintendo can Switch's (Nintendo is stockpiling for the holidays which they'll win big).

By the time this happens Switch's Pro model or successor will be out.
Chip shortages will last three years but I don't think it will that long for PS5 to start outselling Switch on a regular basis. 12-18 months I reckon.
 

AlexxKidd

Member
Ahhhh, at the same point in its life, the switch is neck and neck with if not ahead with software sales as ps4, shouldn't have been too challenging to figure that out, switch is just as good as ps4 for 3rd parties and that's without big hitters
and sonys revenue, most of it is microtransactions and subscriptions, , normally the bane of gamers existence

If the Switch is "just as good for third parties," they'd be well ahead of Sony in software sales, because their first party sells at a much superior rate than Sony's. Simple math. The reason Sony sells more games is because of third party, so your "Switch is just as good" argument falls apart. Shouldn't be too challenging to figure that out.

A lot of Sony's revenue is microtransactions and subscriptions. Yes. Something Nintendo is surely above doing, right? Or am I remembering wrong and Fortnite is maybe not allowed to take microtransactions on the Switch? And Nintendo themselves gives away the Smash Bros. fighters pass for free? Could be that I'm misinformed.
 

Bodomism

Banned
If the Switch is "just as good for third parties," they'd be well ahead of Sony in software sales, because their first party sells at a much superior rate than Sony's. Simple math. The reason Sony sells more games is because of third party, so your "Switch is just as good" argument falls apart. Shouldn't be too challenging to figure that out.

A lot of Sony's revenue is microtransactions and subscriptions. Yes. Something Nintendo is surely above doing, right? Or am I remembering wrong and Fortnite is maybe not allowed to take microtransactions on the Switch? And Nintendo themselves gives away the Smash Bros. fighters pass for free? Could be that I'm misinformed.

Profits>Revenue
 

AlexxKidd

Member
Tencent and Apple gaming division made more than SIE.

Tencent made 6.3 billion on mobile revenue alone, and Apple goes without saying. But yes absolutely, if we're not speaking to the console manufactures, mobile is king.


Profits>Revenue

Yes, Switch makes more in profits and Sony makes more in revenue. Thanks for this. We certainly didn't know this already nor was it already discussed. Thanks again for your insight.
 

MrA

Member
Chip shortages will last three years but I don't think it will that long for PS5 to start outselling Switch on a regular basis. 12-18 months I reckon.
I think they'll probably start jockeying for position next year, probably end with a 22m to 18m win for switch on a strong holiday, 2023 will be ps5 in top place comfortable for 10 months of the year and overall taking the year by like
If the Switch is "just as good for third parties," they'd be well ahead of Sony in software sales, because their first party sells at a much superior rate than Sony's. Simple math. The reason Sony sells more games is because of third party, so your "Switch is just as good" argument falls apart. Shouldn't be too challenging to figure that out.

A lot of Sony's revenue is microtransactions and subscriptions. Yes. Something Nintendo is surely above doing, right? Or am I remembering wrong and Fortnite is maybe not allowed to take microtransactions on the Switch? And Nintendo themselves gives away the Smash Bros. fighters pass for free? Could be that I'm misinformed.
Nintendo first party isn't as big as the fifa cod madden complex, for third parties that aren't ea, 2k,Activision and ubisoft switch is just as good, part of the reason it is always funny when people get mad that the switch gets ports of games
And yes Nintendo has dlc mtx and subs but that is 8% of nintendos revenue vs like 1/2 of sonys
 

isoRhythm

Banned
I’m guessing your first couple sentences are sarcasm, since your last one is right on the money. Make games people actually want to play and sell them. People will buy. It’s so simple and so dead obvious.
I mostly agree with you. But Gamepass and unique good games aren't mutually exclusive.
 

AlexxKidd

Member
Nintendo first party isn't as big as the fifa cod madden complex, for third parties that aren't ea, 2k,Activision and ubisoft switch is just as good, part of the reason it is always funny when people get mad that the switch gets ports of games
And yes Nintendo has dlc mtx and subs but that is 8% of nintendos revenue vs like 1/2 of sonys

And? I'm sure Nintendo would love for their DLC/MTX share to be as high as Sony's. They are certainly not above making DLC, mtx OR subscription services last I checked. In fact the last I checked, Nintendo just offered an upper tier subscription that more than doubles the price of their current one.
 

Marty-McFly

Banned
Chip shortages will last three years but I don't think it will that long for PS5 to start outselling Switch on a regular basis. 12-18 months I reckon.
A lot of a reason for the demand for PS5 right now is Covid. Switch as well. Switch is on pace to sell 24 million this year something Sony has never done. It would be unusual for PS5 not to start winning NPD's more regularly as Switch is getting up there in console years, but with the holiday season and Japan belonging to Nintendo (plus chip shortages) I'm not so sure PS5 will ever have the numbers to start outselling Switch WW before its successor or "pro" model is made available. A lot will depend on Switch's software and Sony's supply chain.
 
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Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
Operating profits of PS1+PS2+PS3+PS4+PSV = $12.98Bn

Operating profits of Switch in just 4 years = $14.98Bn

Selling software at cheap price and giving away for free in from of bundle doesn't make you a leader.

Nintendo is the leader in profits, but PlayStation is the leader in market size, with a platform that is much bigger for third parties and user spending. This isn’t rocket science, and you don’t have to swallow it like it’s a pack of blades.
 

sn0man

Member


Top 5 best operating profits for video game

Manufacturer | Fiscal Year | Operating Profits
Nintendo, FY ending March 2021: 640.63 Bn yen
Nintendo, FY ending March 2009: 555.26 Bn yen
Nintendo, FY ending March 2008: 487.22 Bn yen
Nintendo, FY ending March 2010: 356.57 Bn yen
Nintendo, FY ending March 2020: 352.37 Bn yen

SIE best operating profit
¥342.2bn yen

This fiscal year Nintendo has forecast 520Bn yen operating profits.
Recession = people play video games.
 

Marty-McFly

Banned
Nintendo is the leader in profits, but PlayStation is the leader in market size, with a platform that is much bigger for third parties and user spending. This isn’t rocket science, and you don’t have to swallow it like it’s a pack of blades.
All you're really saying is that Sony is leading with third parties, which they are, but it's fairly redundant as it's been the case since the PS1.

Nintendo selling the most first party software is not really an anomaly either, but the amount of games they're selling and profits they're making are record breaking. Their hardware sales are also on pace to break all time records.
 

zedinen

Member
PS5 will have to wait 3-6 months



Nintendo is the leader in profits, but PlayStation is the leader in market size, with a platform that is much bigger for third parties and user spending. This isn’t rocket science, and you don’t have to swallow it like it’s a pack of blades.

Profits are misleading, when it comes to conglomerates' segments.

PS3 generated substantial profits outside of gaming, paved the way for PSN and PS Studios growth in the late 2010s.

Right now, PS is collaborating with other segments and its free cash flow is the primary source of Sony Group's M&A financing. Instead of investing in itself, PS is investing in Sony Group.


Kenichiro Yoshida (Sony Group CEO) : Broader Impact of PS3









Market Cap and Sales

It's not a coincidence that both Sony market cap and PlayStation sales have tripled since 2007-08



 

Boy bawang

Member
Install base.


The PlayStation/Xbox discrepancy is weird to me. I haven't seen a single series X at normal price (I live in Spain), so I assume that Microsoft sells more or less everything they produce. Yet there's a 2:1 ratio in favor of the PlayStation. Is Microsoft really producing that few consoles, or is the series X available everywhere except in my country?
 

kirby007

Member
Ok, so these numbers are for FY2021, not FY2020. Nintendo did make a bigger profit than Playstation but Playstation’s revenue was $8B more than Nintendo. That’s in a year where covid hugely benefited Nintendo and Sony launched the PS5 at a loss.
how the hell does selling the PS5 at a loss effect revenue?
I dont even see how its worth mentioning revenue, a metric that any serious shareholder ignores as they do with marketshare.
Both are metrics in the console space for meaningless fanboy arguments
 

Marty-McFly

Banned
how the hell does selling the PS5 at a loss effect revenue?
I dont even see how its worth mentioning revenue, a metric that any serious shareholder ignores as they do with marketshare.
Both are metrics in the console space for meaningless fanboy arguments
Revenue has always been a weak talking point, especially when brought into a console unit sales thread.
 

Woopah

Member
PS5 will have to wait 3-6 months





Profits are misleading, when it comes to conglomerates' segments.

PS3 generated substantial profits outside of gaming, paved the way for PSN and PS Studios growth in the late 2010s.

Right now, PS is collaborating with other segments and its free cash flow is the primary source of Sony Group's M&A financing. Instead of investing in itself, PS is investing in Sony Group.


Kenichiro Yoshida (Sony Group CEO) : Broader Impact of PS3









Market Cap and Sales

It's not a coincidence that both Sony market cap and PlayStation sales have tripled since 2007-08



Wait 3-6 months for what?
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Why's everyone ignoring the PS4 still exists? It still has the higher numbers in both hardware and software. It's still the market leader. The Switch has to break that barrier first.
This is exactly why the madness over market leader is so funny.

Switch is the market leader if we omit the PS4.
PS5 isnt because we include the Switch...and still no love for the PS4.

Switch came out the same year as the One X...but its included in both 8th and 9th generations as a market leader.

But the PS4 isnt.

Wild.
 

Woopah

Member
This is exactly why the madness over market leader is so funny.

Switch is the market leader if we omit the PS4.
PS5 isnt because we include the Switch...and still no love for the PS4.

Switch came out the same year as the One X...but its included in both 8th and 9th generations as a market leader.

But the PS4 isnt.

Wild.
This is why it should be based on yearly sales rather than total install base. Makes much more sense to me.

I think they'll probably start jockeying for position next year, probably end with a 22m to 18m win for switch on a strong holiday, 2023 will be ps5 in top place comfortable for 10 months of the year and overall taking the year by like

Nintendo first party isn't as big as the fifa cod madden complex, for third parties that aren't ea, 2k,Activision and ubisoft switch is just as good, part of the reason it is always funny when people get mad that the switch gets ports of games
And yes Nintendo has dlc mtx and subs but that is 8% of nintendos revenue vs like 1/2 of sonys
Agree with all of this!
A lot of a reason for the demand for PS5 right now is Covid. Switch as well. Switch is on pace to sell 24 million this year something Sony has never done. It would be unusual for PS5 not to start winning NPD's more regularly as Switch is getting up there in console years, but with the holiday season and Japan belonging to Nintendo (plus chip shortages) I'm not so sure PS5 will ever have the numbers to start outselling Switch WW before its successor or "pro" model is made available. A lot will depend on Switch's software and Sony's supply chain.
The Pro model will help, but even with that there will still be a point where the PS5 starts shipping more than the Switch worldwide.
 
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