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[Hendrick's]

Did ubisoft swap the tools?

#Toolsgate

How did the update make PS5 tools worse?

That's one way to bring parity

 

[JonkyDonk]

Microsoft doesn't have to sell their audio tech because they went with established standards. They probably also don't want to advertise it because if Series consoles are like Xbox One you probably have to pay $15 for the Atmos app to enable that part of it.

Sony has to market their audio thing because it's custom and non-standard. While Sony is great at audio they have made some blunders with proprietary formats, like when MP3 was becoming a thing and Sony decided to only allow their audio players use their proprietary ATRAC format and got their asses handed to them early on in the MP3 player market. It was a format nobody wanted and nobody would adopt. When you're dealing with audiophiles who spend thousands on high end gear you have to sell to them that your custom thing is going to work with their equipment. If there's ambiguity they won't buy it.

I don't think they are trying it to sell anything to audiophiles. They are trying to introduce 3D audio to a much larger audience by making it more accessible. I'm not saying it will necessarily be fully successful but I think it has a lot of potential because they are making a push for it and trying to get developers to take it more seriously than before.

 

[captainraincoat]

I shouldn't have updated my valhalla

Lol

Wating for xbox screengrabs..if its the opposite grab that popcorn

 

[Edgelord79]

Buddy, you started this by putting words in my mouth. I never said that Xbox doesn't have an audio chip or that it's never ever been done anywhere else. I said it's different from the way it's generally handled. And then you came at me and made this a console war thing, when I was just trying to explain why Tempest is a thing that people talk about.

You wrote:

"It's a powerful dedicated processor for 3D audio, which is different to the way audio is generally handled in consoles, and it can do a lot more if developers actually take the time to do it."

This was on response to another poster claiming that the xbox had 3d audio as well. Yes, you didn't explicitly claim that Xbox didn't have a chip, but the way you worded it was to substantiate your claim that the PS5 has something the Xbox does not (aka a chip).

If that's not what you intended you should have immediately said that in your next response to me. Now... after all of this, you are arguing semantics and calling me "buddy".

If you can't go back and re-read your post and understand why it looked like that then I guess we are at an impasse.

Have a good day.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Which games actually support Atmos? HDTVtest claims latency on Atmos is not suitable for gaming??

Cyberpunk supports Atmos.

 

[MrFunSocks]

The whole point of Tempest is to make it readily available for everyone who buys the console without any additional thing needed and also commit so much silicon to it, so developers have every reason to start putting more work into audio than before. Cerny wanted to change the way people approach audio in games by making it a big part of the PS5 rather than just a niche feature. And like I said, launch games aren't using it much because they were trying to get their games done in time for launch in a pandemic so committing time to audio work wasn't on the agenda but as the generation goes on it will become a bigger deal.

So like Windows Sonic then lol. Windows Sonic is available to literally every xbox console owner for free with headphones. 3D audio, just like tempest.

If you want, the option to pay like $10 once for a lifetime license of Dolby Atmos on all devices is there. That gets you the industry standard 3D audio made by the best in the business, Dolby.

 

[JonkyDonk]

You wrote:

"It's a powerful dedicated processor for 3D audio, which is different to the way audio is generally handled in consoles, and it can do a lot more if developers actually take the time to do it."

This was on response to another poster claiming that the xbox had 3d audio as well. Yes, you didn't explicitly claim that Xbox didn't have a chip, but the way you worded it was to substantiate your claim that the PS5 has something the Xbox does not (aka a chip).

If that's not what you intended you should have immediately said that in your next response to me. Now... after all of this, you are arguing semantics and calling me "buddy".

If you can't go back and re-read your post and understand why it looked like that then I guess we are at an impasse.

Have a good day.

I can't help what you chose to read into my post and be offended by, the words are clear on their own. I didn't say anything to suggest that Xbox doesn't an audio chip. I responded to that person because he was trying to suggest Tempest is just a myth and a buzzword, and I was explaining why Tempest is something worthwhile. You made this into a different argument for no reason and then suddenly started acting all high and mighty with me.

And I'm so sorry I offended you by using the terrible word 'buddy', I hope you can forgive me and recover from this. You have a good day too.

 

[Edgelord79]

I can't help what you chose to read into my post and be offended by, the words are clear on their own. I didn't say anything to suggest that Xbox doesn't an audio chip. I responded to that person because he was trying to suggest Tempest is just a myth and a buzzword, and I was explaining why Tempest is something worthwhile. You made this into a different argument for no reason and then suddenly started acting all high and mighty with me.

And I'm so sorry I offended you by using the terrible word 'buddy', I hope you can forgive me and recover from this. You have a good day too.

I forgive you. My recovery will be long and hard though.

That's what she said....

 

[Shmunter]

The whole point of Tempest is to make it readily available for everyone who buys the console without any additional thing needed and also commit so much silicon to it, so developers have every reason to start putting more work into audio than before. Cerny wanted to change the way people approach audio in games by making it a big part of the PS5 rather than just a niche feature. And like I said, launch games aren't using it much because they were trying to get their games done in time for launch in a pandemic so committing time to audio work wasn't on the agenda but as the generation goes on it will become a bigger deal.

Your wasting your time. The ignorance in sound codecs vs the authored content behind them is staggering. It’s like suggesting a single pixel on a 4k output is equivalent to a fully rendered scene in 4k..........because get this.....both are 4k therefore all 4k capable GPUs are the same!

As you say, PS5 has extra hardware to generate sound content, XsX can do the same if needed but likely needs to dedicate cpu cycles for the calculation unless there is a hidden processor capable of crunching the data.....unlikely or it would be branded and marketed to the hilt by MS more than anyone.

Dolby Atmos or any container output means nothing if all your sending is rudimentary beeps and bloops to it. Shit in, shit out.

 

[JonkyDonk]

So like Windows Sonic then lol. Windows Sonic is available to literally every xbox console owner for free with headphones. 3D audio, just like tempest.

Windows Sonic is a software solution that's on PC, it's nothing like Tempest. And I certainly haven't seen any game in my time with Xbox that offered 3D audio for free on headphones, maybe that's changed and there are now games that offer such a thing on XSX but I haven't seen it marketed.

 

[ManaByte]

Windows Sonic is a software solution that's on PC, it's nothing like Tempest. And I certainly haven't seen any game in my time with Xbox that offered 3D audio for free on headphones, maybe that's changed and there are now games that offer such a thing on XSX but I haven't seen it marketed.

Atmos headphone support is still a license ($15). Atmos home theater output is free.

 

[JonkyDonk]

Your wasting your time. The ignorance in sound codecs vs the authored content behind them is staggering. It’s like suggesting a single pixel on a 4k output is equivalent to a fully rendered scene in 4k..........because get this.....both are 4k therefore all 4k capable GPUs are the same!

As you say, PS5 has extra hardware to generate sound content, XsX can do the same if needed but likely needs to dedicate cpu cycles to generate the content unless there is a hidden processor capable of crunching the data.....unlikely or it would be branded and marketed to the hilt by MS more than anyone.

Dolby Atmos or any container output means nothing if all your sending is rudimentary beeps and bloops to it. Shit in, shit out.

I honestly don't get why people think so little of Mark Cerny that they think he would commit all that time and money and engineering talent to this venture just to proudly achieve something that's apparently not even a bulletpoint worth talking about for MS because they've always had it.....

This reminds me of when people said the DualSense is a myth because Xbox has had rumble in its triggers since 2013, and it's EXACTLY the same thing of course!

 

[SlimySnake]

Trying to wade through the console warrior nonsense in this thread but the muck is pretty thick.

Hopefully they fixed the tearing on both consoles and the frame drops in performance mode on XsX.

But it also sounds like a lot of the pretty big bugs haven’t been addressed, which is a shame.

Wonder if someone can give impressions on the PS5/XSX quality modes; how much better does it look? Don’t think I’ll be giving up 60FPS unless the difference is monumental (which is unlikely).

I posted this in the other thread about the patch last night, and it seems my fears have come true. ps5 looks worse and performs worse. god i hate AC devs.

I remember when they downgraded the graphics in AC Origins on the Pro to get better performance.

I really hope that doesnt happen here after the scathing digital foundry analysis. I wouldnt be surprised if they lock down to 1440p and 60 fps instead of the dynamic resolution they have now.

i held off on playing this and now im regretting it because this might actually get worse.

i am cancelling the download, and just keeping it at the previous version. thankfully the ps5 is too stupid to download patches in rest mode.

 

[JonkyDonk]

I posted this in the other thread about the patch last night, and it seems my fears have come true. ps5 looks worse and performs worse. god i hate AC devs.

i am cancelling the download, and just keeping it at the previous version. thankfully the ps5 is too stupid to download patches in rest mode.

Turn off auto-download and auto-install for updates just to make sure.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Windows Sonic is a software solution that's on PC, it's nothing like Tempest. And I certainly haven't seen any game in my time with Xbox that offered 3D audio for free on headphones, maybe that's changed and there are now games that offer such a thing on XSX but I haven't seen it marketed.

Nothing like tempest? It's 3D audio lol. Do you even have an Xbox? You don't seem to understand that all faked 3D audio, like it is in headphones, is a software solution.

You really don't understand what you're talking about here and it shows.

I honestly don't get why people think so little of Mark Cerny that they think he would commit all that time and money and engineering talent to this venture just to proudly achieve something that's apparently not even a bulletpoint worth talking about for MS because they've always had it.....

This reminds me of when people said the DualSense is a myth because Xbox has had rumble in its triggers since 2013, and it's EXACTLY the same thing of course!

Again - Xbox already had 3D audio, via windows sonic and dolby atmos, on the Xbox One. Sony wanted to roll their own proprietary solution for 3D audio for some reason, just sony being sony. Vita memory cards ring a bell? MS didn't make it a bullet point because again, and this is like the 5th time I've told you, they already had 3D audio on the previous generation so it's not a big selling point for them.

 

[Nikana]

Your wasting your time. The ignorance in sound codecs vs the authored content behind them is staggering. It’s like suggesting a single pixel on a 4k output is equivalent to a fully rendered scene in 4k..........because get this.....both are 4k therefore all 4k capable GPUs are the same!

As you say, PS5 has extra hardware to generate sound content, XsX can do the same if needed but likely needs to dedicate cpu cycles for the calculation unless there is a hidden processor capable of crunching the data.....unlikely or it would be branded and marketed to the hilt by MS more than anyone.

Dolby Atmos or any container output means nothing if all your sending is rudimentary beeps and bloops to it. Shit in, shit out.

Defining the Next Generation: An Xbox Series X|S Technology Glossary - Xbox Wire

[Editor’s Note: Updated on 10/21 at 11AM to ensure it is now reflective of the capabilities across both of our next-gen Xbox consoles following the unveil of Xbox Series S.] As we enter a new generation of console gaming with Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S, we’ve made a number of technology...

www.google.com

 

[MrFunSocks]

Defining the Next Generation: An Xbox Series X|S Technology Glossary - Xbox Wire

[Editor’s Note: Updated on 10/21 at 11AM to ensure it is now reflective of the capabilities across both of our next-gen Xbox consoles following the unveil of Xbox Series S.] As we enter a new generation of console gaming with Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S, we’ve made a number of technology...

www.google.com

You're replying to one of the biggest head in the sand fanboys on this site. Don't bother.

 

[Valued Gamer]

So Ubisoft is officially taking the piss now arnt they.
Not happy with angry XSX owners, they thought they would outrage the PS5 user base as well.
This fucking company man.

 

[JonkyDonk]

Nothing like tempest? It's 3D audio lol. Do you even have an Xbox? You don't seem to understand that all faked 3D audio, like it is in headphones, is a software solution.

You really don't understand what you're talking about here and it shows.



Again - Xbox already had 3D audio, via windows sonic and dolby atmos, on the Xbox One. Sony wanted to roll their own proprietary solution for 3D audio for some reason, just sony being sony. Vita memory cards ring a bell? MS didn't make it a bullet point because again, and this is like the 5th time I've told you, they already had 3D audio on the previous generation so it's not a big selling point for them.

I'm not gonna keep going around in circles with you, I explained why Tempest is different and worthy of attention, you keep repeating the same thing. We'll find out who was right in the fullness of time as the generation goes on.

 

[Shmunter]

Nothing like tempest? It's 3D audio lol. Do you even have an Xbox? You don't seem to understand that all faked 3D audio, like it is in headphones, is a software solution.

You really don't understand what you're talking about here and it shows.



Again - Xbox already had 3D audio, via windows sonic and dolby atmos, on the Xbox One. Sony wanted to roll their own proprietary solution for 3D audio for some reason, just sony being sony. Vita memory cards ring a bell? MS didn't make it a bullet point because again, and this is like the 5th time I've told you, they already had 3D audio on the previous generation so it's not a big selling point for them.

Resident Evil 2 Remake and Hellblade have 3D audio on PS4. So?!?

Wrapping your head around having dedicated silicon for the task vs software solutions seems to be a reach for you for some reason tho. Why is that?

Is the claim the Xbox since Xbox 2013 has a dedicated branded Dolby Atmos coprocessor calculating 3D positional sound?!?

 

[MrFunSocks]

I'm not gonna keep going around in circles with you, I explained why Tempest is different and worthy of attention, you keep repeating the same thing. We'll find out who was right in the fullness of time as the generation goes on.

But you didn't actually explain anything lol.

"Tempest has special hardware!" - so does Xbox.

"Tempest is to make 3D audio support easy!" - so is Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos, both of which have been available for years and already have games supporting them on the Xbox One and Series S/X.

Explain to me why tempest is actually different to the industry leaders standard, dolby atmos.

 

[Kenpachii]

I shouldn't have updated my valhalla

Performance is also worse on pc.

 

[Redlight]

...
Also, Cerny said that they are still doing a ton of research on their algorithms for HRTF and it will be ongoing process throughout the generation. And besides all that, the biggest advantage for Tempest is to make 3D audio easily available for everyone through basic headphones or stereo speakers without the need for anything else, rather than to reinvent audio.

3D audio has benefits for stereo headphone users, though those benefits are vastly overstated.

Simple stereo speakers (TV speakers or even a 'surround' soundbar) will never provide a convincing surround sound effect, regardless of the software and hardware in the PS5.

 

[JonkyDonk]

3D audio has benefits for stereo headphone users, though those benefits are vastly overstated.

Simple stereo speakers (TV speakers or even a 'surround' soundbar) will never provide a convincing surround sound effect, regardless of the software and hardware in the PS5.

Well currently PS5 doesn't support 3D audio for stereo speakers. That option will come later and we'll find out how good it is. And like I said very few games even have 3D audio at all right now. Apprarently Demon's Souls makes some decent use of it with headphones but I haven't really played that yet. I think RE8 will be a really good test case.

 

[AnotherOne]

And some of you thought ps5 was as powerful as xsx because of a few launch games.. as you can see its up to developers to utilize the hardware to the fullest.. yes both systems are powerful but too many scrubs on here getting carried away with cerney is a genius, another one gif and so on..

Ubisoft is a joke and this is proof the game actually runs worse now on ps5 lol let's hope they re release another patch soon get this gong show fixed.

 

[ManaByte]

But you didn't actually explain anything lol.

"Tempest has special hardware!" - so does Xbox.

"Tempest is to make 3D audio support easy!" - so is Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos, both of which have been available for years and already have games supporting them on the Xbox One and Series S/X.

Explain to me why tempest is actually different to the industry leaders standard, dolby atmos.

I'm having flashbacks to when Sony tried to make SDDS a DTS/Dolby competitor in the 90s and went up against Jurassic Park blowing people out of the water in DTS.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Well currently PS5 doesn't support 3D audio for stereo speakers. That option will come later and we'll find out how good it is. And like I said very few games even have 3D audio at all right now. Apprarently Demon's Souls makes some decent use of it with headphones but I haven't really played that yet. I think RE8 will be a really good test case.

It never will for stereo speakers. Physics don't work like that.

Lots of Xbox games have 3D audio already. Again, it's only new to Sony consoles.

 

[Shmunter]

Defining the Next Generation: An Xbox Series X|S Technology Glossary - Xbox Wire

[Editor’s Note: Updated on 10/21 at 11AM to ensure it is now reflective of the capabilities across both of our next-gen Xbox consoles following the unveil of Xbox Series S.] As we enter a new generation of console gaming with Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S, we’ve made a number of technology...

www.google.com

Do we have anything detailing the Audio coprocessor apart from the marketing headline that one exists? From that it could be anything from a stream processing monster to a basic channel mixer. It’s puzzling that MS wouldn’t be providing any detail if it were of any significance.

Sony claims their chip is the equivalent of an entire Jaguar cpu capable of processing 20gig/s of data. Where is the comparison?

 

[Redlight]

Well currently PS5 doesn't support 3D audio for stereo speakers. That option will come later and we'll find out how good it is. And like I said very few games even have 3D audio at all right now. Apprarently Demon's Souls makes some decent use of it with headphones but I haven't really played that yet. I think RE8 will be a really good test case.

You really don't have to wait. Stereo speakers and soundbars will never, ever be able to convincingly mimic true surround sound, or even get close to a basic 5.1 system.

 

[papeipa]

A bird told me that the drops in ps5 has nothing to do with the patch, but with the system update itself. More games are facing the same problem.....

 

[Shmunter]

You're replying to one of the biggest head in the sand fanboys on this site. Don't bother.

Me? Project any harder and you’ll need to change the already dim lightbulb in your head.

 

[fighterman101]

A bird told me that the drops in ps5 has nothing to do with the patch, but with the system update itself. More games are facing the same problem.....

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

 

[Hawk269]

So Ubisoft is officially taking the piss now arnt they.
Not happy with angry XSX owners, they thought they would outrage the PS5 user base as well.
This fucking company man.

It is obvious a bug or a mistake. Why do some of you have to act like this? Do you really think UBI had a meeting and said "hey we need to reduce performance on the PS5". This will be fixed and most likely fixed pretty quickly.

 

[oldergamer]

Performance is also worse on pc.

Sometimes this happens. Fixing issues like "memory leaks" can tend to affect performance.

 

[Chris_Rivera]

Turn off auto-download and auto-install for updates just to make sure.

I have automatic updates disabled and my Ps5 still tries to update GoW every single time it’s connected to the internet.

I have to cancel it each time, otherwise I lose the 4k checkerboard 60fps goodness. It looks pretty insane I must admit, sad the devs can’t fix this in the current version.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Ubi feeling the new gen struggle I see. Hope it all gets worked out so both consoles get a steady 60 with great visuals.

 

[Nikana]

Do we have anything detailing the Audio coprocessor apart from the marketing headline that one exists? From that it could be anything from a stream processing monster to a basic channel mixer. It’s puzzling that MS wouldn’t be providing any detail if it were of any significance.

Sony claims their chip is the equivalent of an entire Jaguar cpu capable of processing 20gig/s of data. Where is the comparison?

Do we have anything detailing the Audio coprocessor apart from the marketing headline that one exists? From that it could be anything from a stream processing monster to a basic channel mixer. It’s puzzling that MS wouldn’t be providing any detail if it were of any significance.

Sony claims their chip is the equivalent of an entire Jaguar cpu capable of processing 20gig/s of data. Where is the comparison?

Youd have to ask Microsoft where the comparison is on that one but simply assuming it must be inferior because they haven't talked about it is pretty silly in my mind.

Could tempest achieve higher throughput of raw data? Probably, impossible to say. But audio being better by the amount of data being processed as a factual conclusion has been debunked many times. If that was the case DTS X would trump everything on the market.

The reality is they both support 3D audio codecs and are capable of producing high quality sound. The final product will always be at the mercy of the sound designers and their ability to leverage the tech and not which processes more sources.

 

[Shmunter]

Youd have to ask Microsoft where the comparison is on that one but simply assuming it must be inferior because they haven't talked about it is pretty silly in my mind.

Could tempest achieve higher throughput of raw data? Probably, impossible to say. But audio being better by the amount of data being processed as a factual conclusion has been debunked many times. If that was the case DTS X would trump everything on the market.

The reality is they both support 3D audio codecs and are capable of producing high quality sound. The final product will always be at the mercy of the sound designers and their ability to leverage the tech and not which processes more sources.

I don’t subscribe to such notions when it comes to compute devices. The more power on the table, the more potential for development. It doesn’t matter if it’s gfx, physics, ai, or sound.

There is more to sound than just output quality. It is about being able to tie it as closely to the virtual game environment as possible in real-time without need to pre-bake the sound effects, samples, what have you. E.g. Being in a cave and calculating the echo accordingly vs slapping on a global reverb effect.

Simple comparison in the gfx world is prebaking lighting into textures, vs real-time lighting through global illumination.

Sound resources have always been relegated to last on the resource pie, doesn’t have to be this way.

 

[Nikana]

I don’t subscribe to such notions when it comes to compute devices. The more power on the table, the more potential for development. It doesn’t matter if it’s gfx, physics, ai, or sound.

There is more to sound than just output quality. It is about being able to tie it as closely to the virtual game environment as possible in real-time without need to pre-bake the sound effects, samples, what have you. E.g. Being in a cave and calculating the echo accordingly vs slapping on a global reverb effect.

Simple comparison in the gfx world is prebaking lighting into textures, vs real-time lighting through global illumination.

Sound resources have always been relegated to last on the resource pie, doesn’t have to be this way.

Potential doesn't always result is better. You can have more everything in any device that calculates power in a meaningful metric and that has never resulted in a 100 percent rate of superiority.

Sound is only as good as the mix that's made.

Again, if data rate was the key factor then DTS X would best atmos every single time. It simply has more bandwidth. But that's factually not the case.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Maybe they need to start making these patches optional?

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Your wasting your time. The ignorance in sound codecs vs the authored content behind them is staggering. It’s like suggesting a single pixel on a 4k output is equivalent to a fully rendered scene in 4k..........because get this.....both are 4k therefore all 4k capable GPUs are the same!

As you say, PS5 has extra hardware to generate sound content, XsX can do the same if needed but likely needs to dedicate cpu cycles for the calculation unless there is a hidden processor capable of crunching the data.....unlikely or it would be branded and marketed to the hilt by MS more than anyone.

Dolby Atmos or any container output means nothing if all your sending is rudimentary beeps and bloops to it. Shit in, shit out.

Dude what the FUCK are you talking about?

 

[Kagey K]

Dude what the FUCK are you talking about?

The AC Valhalla patch.

What else would this thread be about?

 

[Shmunter]

Dude what the FUCK are you talking about?

Would you like me to draw you a picture?

 

[Entroyp]

welp! We know PS5 runs the game faster so it needs to be crippled to not make MS look bad. Nice move Phil.

 

[ManaByte]

welp! We know PS5 runs the game faster so it needs to be crippled to not make MS look bad. Nice move Phil.

 

[Sir Vilhelm]

Sonygaf has been hilarious.

"See!! God Emperor Cerny beat MS with less specs! Assassin's Creed proves it!!"

One week later

" Fuck MS for money hatting Ubisoft to cripple PS5!!!"

Why anyone thought Ubisoft was some kind of stellar benchmark is beyond me. They've never been known for cutting edge development. SDF is gonna SDF I guess.

 

[Golgo 13]

I posted this in the other thread about the patch last night, and it seems my fears have come true. ps5 looks worse and performs worse. god i hate AC devs.

i am cancelling the download, and just keeping it at the previous version. thankfully the ps5 is too stupid to download patches in rest mode.

Wait, are you sure they downgraded the graphics or are you just preparing for the worst?

 

[captainraincoat]

We still have the Cold War Patch and the Watchdogs patch to come....should be some good reading/meltdowns

 

[Aguero9320]

Lesson here seems to be devs are going to make mistakes while learning the new hardware, particularly third party, which is understandable, so fanboys (on both sides, but specifically since these launches, Sony fanboys) should put their cocks away while watching DF and wait and see for six months or more.

Then we’ll start to get a clearer picture. Until then, it’s all just a waste of characters.

 

[ethomaz]

According people on Twitter Ubi has downgraded PS5 version and have more drops in framerate and tearing than previous patch

There is only one way to reach parity