Riky
$MSFT
It's also cheaper here in the UK, but until we see true built from the ground up next gen games the jury is still out. Looking at Forza with in game RT the Series consoles are about to start hitting their stride.
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Atomic Heart - DF Tech Review - PS5 vs Xbox Series X/S vs PC
- Thread starter rickybooby87
- Start date
It's also cheaper here in the UK, but until we see true built from the ground up next gen games the jury is still out. Looking at Forza with in game RT the Series consoles are about to start hitting their stride.
The reason for that is that PS5 has the straight forward rendering advantage but Series X has the compute advantage so most games will run better on PS5 until devs move some stuff over to compute.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Tell that to the people back in 2020, 2021, even 2022 who did and consistently still try saying Xbox will "blow the doors" off PS5 once "DA TOOHLZ!!!" finally arrive. When "the power of Mesh Shaders, Velocity Architecture, and Sampler Feedback Streaming" are finally utilized and we get that 40% advantage for Series X all based on a misunderstood photo mode test in Control.
The sane among us were always (or mostly always) saying the two systems would be virtually equivalent in performance and, if there were any notable differences, it'd probably be in the 1P and certain 3P exclusives to show that off. But Series X is having a hard time actually keeping pace with PS5 performance in multiple games now, and we're in the third year of the console generation. These types of performance deltas were expected in the first year, not the third.
Either the API/tools situation with Xbox is really bad, or there are more glaring design bottlenecks present than maybe first thought. And this is a game that's in Game Pass Day 1; Microsoft basically have marketing rights on it, so I figure they'd of helped the team with optimization on Xbox. The performance issues present should theoretically not exist.
Maybe (it'll really come down to how games are using the extra compute, before saying it'll manifest a notable advantage for Series X. Same can kind of be said for PS5's SSD since a small amount of games barely load any faster on it or in rare cases are a hair faster to load on Series X).
But here's the baffling part: Atomic Heart is a game Microsoft having marketing rights on. It's Day 1 in Game Pass, so we can assume they have in fact helped the developer with optimizations.
If so, and these are the results, then something's going on with either MS's GDK API tools, or a design choice in the console itself that's presenting more of a bottleneck than anticipated. It's either that or Microsoft did not help the team optimize the game for the system but, why would they neglect that when it's seemingly a game which would be a big push for the system and Game Pass in a year where they need all the hits they can get to make up for 2022, and also to not lose even more ground to PlayStation?
So I can' see MS having not assisted the dev team at all.
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PS5 also has a lot of advantage like faster I/O , USB-C faster better Wifi chip , more features on the controller & so on .
Punished Miku
Gold Member
I think I finally realized that DF threads are retarded. Just hit me.
I relied on this report:
https://www.eurogamer.net/heres-how-much-power-your-consoles-use-and-how-much-that-costs-in-the-uk
I don't know if it's up to date but according to this Eurogamer report, XSX consumes less power when running the same game, when iddle and when using media applications. In sleep mode, mode in which PS5 consume less, Xbox is more efficient while downloading a game.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I bet you'll be saying this in 2035...lol. I wasn't saying it. There was also the people saying that the ps5 would beat pcs for years to come thanks to its untouchable god like io. There's crazy on both sides, just laugh at it.
PC is destroying consoles now just like it has for every gen.
Mr Moose
Member
That's not up to date, but it would show what the OG PS5s would use (like mine). I think the newer models use less power.
They was running amok before the games hit
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ot-xbox-power-king-memes.1531914/
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
01011001
Banned
I mean they could go with Vulkan, but that has basically the same issue for devs like that.
or they could go with DX11 and miss out on features...
and then there's OpenGL 4.6 I guess
The massive flaws with Xbox version strangely missing from this summary. The timestamped section here not mentioned at all
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Yeah, it's Jason, I believe. But Mark Cerny is just an absolute industry legend, which is why he is so well-known.
I don't want the thread to be derailed, so I'll just add this one response to it.
Comparing head to head, PS5 vs. XSX, PS5 is a better-designed console in a way. It's bigger, yes, but just as quiet as the XSX. More importantly, though, it's essentially a $399 console that matches and, sometimes, beats a $499 XSX (as in this game). In addition, that console also has a 2x faster SSD and also allows for VR gaming. Then other features like haptic feedback, adaptive triggers, 3D Tempest audio, etc.
The combination of all these things, at a lower price point, especially with a theoretically low TeraFlop count makes PS5 just look better. That's why I think it gets more praise, and rightly so in my opinion.
Gudji
Member
adamsapple
didn't post it so I knew the outcome.
Magic Carpet
Member
Time to increase the clock speeds on the Series X. They did it on the oldy moldy xboney maybe they can do it with the always laggy despite braggy Series X.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Does it mean that we now need an auditor to double-check the accuracy of Adamapple's DF summaries?
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Team RGB wins again, as expected...
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SkyHighTrees
Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Mentioned other bugs already but added a separate line for the two issues in the timestamp.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Mr Moose
already answered.I wouldn't say PC's "destroying" consoles ATM considering some games are running worst on PC than PS5 with somewhat console-ish specs in tested PC builds. You either need a notably more powerful CPU or GPU, more RAM, faster SSD or some combination to cleanly outdo PS5 & Series X performance on PC with some of the latest games, and most PC gamers aren't rocking the higher-end stuff.
But you're right in a theoretical sense; if you have the right equipment, you can outdo the consoles on PC. Problem is, that's like maybe 5% of all PC gamers, maybe 8% at most (going by Steam results). Which is like at most around 10.4 million Steam users (going by Steams 130 million MAU claims).
But it's actually lower than that, because some of those people have multiple GPUs, and probably only use one of them as their main. And they're not going to buy a copy of the game for each GPU they have (in some cases they probably only play F2P games anyway so they wouldn't be buying any software directly).
TheTony316
Member
Looks like the tools aren't ready yet.
Not trying to discredit Adamsapple and I appreciate his summaries but that summary seems to miss some key points there. Namely the series S performance is the worst not just prone to drops too, and the xbox specific bugs.Does it mean that we now need an auditor to double-check the accuracy of Adamapple's DF summaries?
Connxtion
Member
Only played to the monorails part thing, but had zero performance issues at all, though am using VRR on my CX, hides all issues 
The video they are saying doesn’t play on Xbox played fine on mine
so don’t know why they ain’t getting any videos playing. When I first walked into that area (swam) the video wasn’t there, it turned on like a TV and started playing after I tried to unlock the door.
Edit: spelling
The video they are saying doesn’t play on Xbox played fine on mine
so don’t know why they ain’t getting any videos playing. When I first walked into that area (swam) the video wasn’t there, it turned on like a TV and started playing after I tried to unlock the door.Edit: spelling
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Physiognomonics
Member
It's clearly higher resolution on PS5. Maybe like 10-20% or so. The difference on leaves is quite noticeable. Also obviously better LOD on Sony console. Odd that this time they don't talk about the resolution difference, hey?How was DF missing these distant details and sharpness? The whole building in the distance and the building on the right next to the statue has much more detail on the PS5.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Jeez, did Microsoft help the devs out AT ALL with technical optimizations? They got the game for Game Pass, you'd think they would have helped out on the Xbox version to prevent this bad performance and bugs from being there Day 1.
Game optimizations have no relation with the marketing team 90% of the time
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Does it mean that we now need an auditor to double-check the accuracy of Adamapple's DF summaries?
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Yep. In addition, the shadow settings also seem lower on XSX. A few items don't even cast shadows, and they are close enough to the screen that I doubt it had to with the LOD issues. For example:
I understand that, but actually, what caught my attention was the fact that the Xbox consumes less power while having performance, this comparing the release models.
In some games the difference reaches almost 30% in energy consumption, which makes the SX much more efficient. I know they were lunch models, but I imagine that both want to reduce the consumption in the long run.
Mr Moose
Member
Higher GPU clocks.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
The tree is "moving". The shadows are there.Yep. In addition, the shadow settings also seem lower on XSX. A few items don't even cast shadows, and they are close enough to the screen that I doubt it had to with the LOD issues. For example:
Physiognomonics
Member
This would not fix neither the bugs or asset streaming stutters.
nightmare-slain
Member
there was no need for the red square. the lack of that tiny shadow was so obvious enough! in fact there was no need to zoom all the way in. /sYep. In addition, the shadow settings also seem lower on XSX. A few items don't even cast shadows, and they are close enough to the screen that I doubt it had to with the LOD issues. For example:
they are two different shots that you can't even compare. in the xbox shot the tree is covering the area where the shadow is in the PS5 shot....
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I was explaining why it seems that some Series X games need more work after release . Like if the same code is running on both consoles it will more than likely start off running better on PS5 because most of the main GPU hardware is turned up higher but Series X has work arounds & more CUs so devs end up getting around the bottlenecks by moving stuff to compute & so on. it's not always going to be the case but that's most likely what is happening.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Forza Motorsport is using a cheaper means of RT in-game versus in replays; Eurogamer article has a few quotes on this from Alex:
Just putting that out there if you're thinking the game's going to have balls-to-the-wall full RT GI at native 4K or whatnot. I strongly doubt that. Maybe they can do it with a locked 30 FPS mode but I don't think a Forza Motorsport's been 30 FPS since the first entry, and that was eons ago.
I mean in terms of the company with the marketing rights, among platform holders. Microsoft have marketing rights on Atomic Heart, no? I figure that was part of the deal when they got it for Game Pass Day 1. So I was at least expecting them to help with optimization of the Xbox versions, not just to make sure the game runs as well as possible Day 1 but also because of the optics when it's something you have marketing rights to.
But it seems like they did not care to do this, because the Xbox versions sound like they have a lot of performance issues that shouldn't be there. Or, they did, yet somehow this was the best they could do in help? Either way something either went wrong or Microsoft's idea of how to help devs on a game they have marketing rights to is severely lacking.
Not really wanting to bring a comparison to Sony in this but, you can see how with the games they have marketing rights on, they ALWAYS provide technically assistance & support for the developers. They know the optics would look bad if a game they have marketing rights on (and is a multiplat, no less) ran like garbage on PlayStation icomapred to competing devices. That's effectively a waste of getting the marketing rights.
We've seen Microsoft provide that type of technical support for games like The Ascent, but I guess they're only willing to do it if they have full exclusivity or timed exclusivity. Doesn't work out for them in this example.
Get what you're saying and you'd be right in most cases. But I'm just particularly baffled why Atomic Heart specifically is having these issues on Series X (and S) considering, IIRC, Microsoft have the marketing rights?
Did Microsoft simply not provide any technical assistance to the dev team whatsoever? Were they thinking about the optics and how having the worst-performing version of a game they got for Game Pass, would hurt them? Especially considering Xbox has been struggling a bit compared to PS5 in other, bigger multiplat releases the past few months? Games that, FWIW, are no longer cross-gen?
I'm guessing Microsoft either only provide that type of help with games that are fully console exclusive or timed exclusive to Xbox console-wise, neither of which are the case with Atomic Heart. But you'd think they would want to make sure the game's runny well relative to the PS5 version, for their Game Pass subscribers, right? At the very least it shows a lack of care on Microsoft's part IMO, when other companies like Sony have shown they're willing to invest in providing technical support for games they have marketing rights to, even if they're multiplat and launching on other consoles Day 1.
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Riky
$MSFT
The Devs have already said they will have higher settings on replays, we don't need DF to tell us that when Turn 10 said it themselves.
It doesn't change the fact we have Ray Traced reflections in game even on Series S.
Marketing isn't going to change the design of the game unless it was a case of Sony or MS stepping in from the beginning & telling the devs to build the game around their hardware.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Yeah but look at that last part you just said; "even on Series S". Remember when Microsoft were first marketing the Series S and said everything would be exactly the same as Series X, just at lower resolution? Well there haven't been a lot of games on Series S with RT, when the Series X versions have RT in them.
It shouldn't be like a miracle occurrence that Series S finally gets RT in a game. Hopefully going forward, RT in Series S versions of games is more normalized, then maybe Microsoft's earlier marketing for the system can actually live up to the claims.
I'm curious to see how extensive RT is in Forza for the console though, especially the S version.
LordOfChaos
Member
There's a few full frame FPS drops, but what I'm noticing a lot more is some elements that animate at a much lower framerate than the rest of the scene, like some of the tentacle things, or some of the turbine things on airships
I also thought some of the blockiness and temporal weirdness around the turbines was a reconstruction technique, I guess not so on consoles? Maybe just no AA there?
I also thought some of the blockiness and temporal weirdness around the turbines was a reconstruction technique, I guess not so on consoles? Maybe just no AA there?
Riky
$MSFT
You believed marketing?
Jason Ronald who actually designed the machines was pretty clear before launch that they would let developers decide and that they could lower other graphical effects that didn't affect gameplay, the interview is well known by now.
Also Microsoft is not responsible for third parties and the performance of their games, no more than Sony is when something doesn't run as well on PS.
Yes Forza will be interesting on both consoles but it will prove that the Series S is capable of RT in the right hands.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Sony paying devs to make PS5 version better...even if the game is on GP.
Savage.
Same shit they did with Hogwarts, no reason that game performs better on PS5 if not for that marketing deal... with this game.... sony is just trying to sabotage MS.
Savage.
Same shit they did with Hogwarts, no reason that game performs better on PS5 if not for that marketing deal... with this game.... sony is just trying to sabotage MS.
Pedro Motta
Member
Dude are you serious? You have HUNDREDS of developers with issues working with DX12, the only common denominator here is DirectX12, not the devs being lazy. Christ, what a stretch.
Magic Carpet
Member
Well thats a bummer, I vote discontinuing the Series X, Can't find them in stores anyway. Time to redesign and put some fire under it for a new Series BLT.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
The shadow is still missing though. Even if the position of the leaves is slightly different, the leaves will still cast the shadow.
The sun is in the exact same position in both images, as evident by the identical shadows under the railing and the shadow just left of the window.