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Atomic Heart - DF Tech Review - PS5 vs Xbox Series X/S vs PC

How is the PS5 well thought out, is way too big. Everything is so spread out on the motherboard (so much wasted space) and the flash ram plus controller take up more space than a M.2 SSD does. I love the system, it’s my main platform but there is so much room for improvement. The PS5 Slim or whatever it will be called will be the system it should have been to begin with (In terms of size and motherboard design). Biggest problem with the Series X is the big old vent holes on the top letting dust in and the ridiculous cost of storage expansion, but internally how well they crammed everything in such small space is much more impressive IMO.
You like stuff crammed into spaces, I like the Zen feeling of space. I’d say both opinions are valid 😃.
 

Filben

Member
Man, SSAO und GI is really broken on console, making the whole open world outside looking flat and ugly:


Holy shit. NX-Gamer is schooling, exposing, and calling out Colteastwood on his BS.




I don't comprehend this conversation. I don't know who these guys are but is that even English this Michael T guy writes?
 
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Bogroll

Likes moldy games
Been playing on Series S and X. The performance and resolution drop of the SS the other day was quite bad after the latest patch. Gone back on it today and the same area is a lot better. Not perfect but much better. I wonder if the console being switched off then back on has made a difference because I'm still on the same patch.
 

Loxus

Member
Holy shit. NX-Gamer is schooling, exposing, and calling out Colteastwood on his BS.




This kind of sucks really.
All those names Colt listed are Microsoft API features.

DirectX
Microsoft DirectX is a collection of application programming interfaces (APIs) for handling tasks related to multimedia, especially game programming and video, on Microsoft platforms.

Among the new features in Ultimate includes DirectX Raytracing 1.1, Variable Rate Shading, which gives programmers control over the level of detail of shading depending on design choices, Mesh Shaders, and Sampler Feedback.


Microsoft fully knows Playstation doesn't support their API, but made it seem like these are hardware features missing from the PS5. When in fact Sony uses their own API with equivalent features.
 

M1987

Member
Damn! My poor 3060 is such a piece of shit!
Just try the game because something isn't right with them benchmarks.On 4k max settings I'm getting 50-60ps,60 mostly apart from when you first enter the open world(it's around 45fps)on a 6800 non XT,so I don't know why they have the 3090 performing the same,and a 6900XT, 3080,and a 6800XT performing worse
 
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Just try the game because something isn't right with them benchmarks.On 4k max settings I'm getting 50-60ps,60 mostly apart from when you first enter the open world(it's around 45fps)on a 6800 non XT,so I don't know why they have the 3090 performing the same,and a 6900XT, 3080,and a 6800XT performing worse
I tried it , i get stutters here and there at 1440p fully maxed out
 

solidus12

Member
Man, SSAO und GI is really broken on console, making the whole open world outside looking flat and ugly:



I don't comprehend this conversation. I don't know who these guys are but is that even English this Michael T guy writes?

Micheal is known as Nx-gamer he does performance analysis on games.
 

GeekyDad

Member
...
- The day 1 patch on Xbox version causes massive frame time spikes and have other glitches like missing videos on in-game projection screens as well
...

200.gif

Sounds like me when I try to make shit better when working with digital software.
 

Loxus

Member
Cerny was laughed for the 1 hour presentation on the PS5 back in 2020.

I guess he’s laughing now
Yep, a highly educational video on the PS5 that was down voted because of one thing and was was 10 TF vs 12 TF.

Most people just see 12 is higher than 10 and downplayed the PS5. Completely missing important things than was noted.
For example;
"If you just calculate teraflops, you get the same number, but actually the performance is noticeably different because teraflops is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU.

That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33% higher frequency rasterization goes 33% faster, processing the command buffer goes that much faster the L2 and other caches have that much higher bandwidth and so on.

About the only downside is that system memory is 33% further away in terms of cycles. But the large number of benefits more than counterbalanced that.

As a friend of mine says a rising tide lifts all boats.

Also it's easier to fully use 36CUs in parallel than it is to fully use 48CUs. When triangles are small it's much harder to fill although CUs with useful work."


I hope Mark Cerny do this kind of tech breakdown again for the PS6 despite the backlash Road to PS5 got, but this time with animations to help us understand a few things better.
 

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
Yep, a highly educational video on the PS5 that was down voted because of one thing and was was 10 TF vs 12 TF.

Most people just see 12 is higher than 10 and downplayed the PS5. Completely missing important things than was noted.
For example;
"If you just calculate teraflops, you get the same number, but actually the performance is noticeably different because teraflops is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU.

That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33% higher frequency rasterization goes 33% faster, processing the command buffer goes that much faster the L2 and other caches have that much higher bandwidth and so on.

About the only downside is that system memory is 33% further away in terms of cycles. But the large number of benefits more than counterbalanced that.

As a friend of mine says a rising tide lifts all boats.

Also it's easier to fully use 36CUs in parallel than it is to fully use 48CUs. When triangles are small it's much harder to fill although CUs with useful work."


I hope Mark Cerny do this kind of tech breakdown again for the PS6 despite the backlash Road to PS5 got, but this time with animations to help us understand a few things better.
Understandable. When, if at all or rarely has a graphics card with a lower TF from the same architecture matched or outperformed the higher TF card.
 

Lysandros

Member
Understandable. When, if at all or rarely has a graphics card with a lower TF from the same architecture matched or outperformed the higher TF card.
XSX/PS5 aren't discrete PC graphics cards. Those are Zen 2/RDNA2 based (semi) custom APUs with some architectural differences like the Cache Scrubbers and XSX GPU having ~13 CUs per SA (sharing 128kb of GPU L1 cache) among others. Good luck finding PC equivalents about those aspects not counting different APIs like GNM/X. Besides, on PC space cards having substantially less CUs have also often less of other GPU components like rasterizers, prim units, ROPs etc. this is again not the case for PS5/XSX situation.
 
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Bogroll

Likes moldy games
XSX/PS5 aren't discrete PC graphics cards. Those are Zen 2/RDNA2 based (semi) custom APUs with some architectural differences like the Cache Scrubbers and XSX GPU having ~13 CUs per SA (sharing 128kb of GPU L1 cache) among others. Good luck finding PC equivalents about those aspects not counting different APIs like GNM/X. Besides, on PC space cards having substantially less CUs have also often less of other GPU components like rasterizers, prim units, ROPs etc. this is again not the case for PS5/XSX situation.
I'm just pointing out why people thinking 12 better than 10. I'm not comparing anything.
 
Yep, a highly educational video on the PS5 that was down voted because of one thing and was was 10 TF vs 12 TF.

Most people just see 12 is higher than 10 and downplayed the PS5. Completely missing important things than was noted.
For example;
"If you just calculate teraflops, you get the same number, but actually the performance is noticeably different because teraflops is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU.

That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33% higher frequency rasterization goes 33% faster, processing the command buffer goes that much faster the L2 and other caches have that much higher bandwidth and so on.

About the only downside is that system memory is 33% further away in terms of cycles. But the large number of benefits more than counterbalanced that.

As a friend of mine says a rising tide lifts all boats.

Also it's easier to fully use 36CUs in parallel than it is to fully use 48CUs. When triangles are small it's much harder to fill although CUs with useful work."


I hope Mark Cerny do this kind of tech breakdown again for the PS6 despite the backlash Road to PS5 got, but this time with animations to help us understand a few things better.
I still can't believe so much people choose to believe people that were just shouting random nonsense, over an expert designer in his field. Probably one of the best. It really hurt the green community when the SSD was announced so they completely tried to go with the 12 vs 8 tf narrative, even though Cerny noted it was a little bit above ten about 100% of the time.

And even if Xbox Series X could eat monsters for breakfast, I'd rather have some nice exclusive MS studio games on them ("Looking sadly out of the window, waiting for more than 2 years ago announced games like Fable etc.").
 
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TonyK

Member
Three patches on a week and I continue not seeing the TV videos in Xbox. I'm truly curious about why is so difficult to solve that.

The thing is the game runs and looks great to me, but I'm not paying it waiting for those fucking videos that I will not give a shit when they appear.
 

sachos

Member
Yep, a highly educational video on the PS5 that was down voted because of one thing and was was 10 TF vs 12 TF.

Most people just see 12 is higher than 10 and downplayed the PS5. Completely missing important things than was noted.
For example;
"If you just calculate teraflops, you get the same number, but actually the performance is noticeably different because teraflops is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU.

That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33% higher frequency rasterization goes 33% faster, processing the command buffer goes that much faster the L2 and other caches have that much higher bandwidth and so on.

About the only downside is that system memory is 33% further away in terms of cycles. But the large number of benefits more than counterbalanced that.

As a friend of mine says a rising tide lifts all boats.

Also it's easier to fully use 36CUs in parallel than it is to fully use 48CUs. When triangles are small it's much harder to fill although CUs with useful work."


I hope Mark Cerny do this kind of tech breakdown again for the PS6 despite the backlash Road to PS5 got, but this time with animations to help us understand a few things better.
I read that in his voice
 
I know that Cerny is a great engineer and architect but sometimes I wonder why the Xbox guys don't receive the same praise.

Based on some comparatives both machines are quite similar, sometimes one better than the other. However, Xbox is smaller, quieter and most importantly, according to DF, consumes less power, sometimes much less, when running the same game. For me, the X seems better design and nobody talk about the Xbox architects. I never heard who they are. Is Jason Ronald the main architect?
The Xbox One X was also an amazing console. That thing was a beast. The XSX is just a continuation of that excellent engineering.
 
Mark Cerny is just a meme really, I love it, it's pretty obvious the xbox and ps5 are almost identical.
In a world of diminishing returns, a 1.4 tflop difference is not going to make one much better than the other.
The real advantage this gen has been Sony's decision to stick with 36CUs and to make the ease of development as good as can be.
The whole "time to triangle" was important to Cerny and Sony and without a doubt that mature development environment and tools has helped the PS5 jump out of the box.
It's going to take awhile for the DX12U feature sets to be exploited considering half them haven't even been used in a game yet.
 

bender

What time is it?
In a world of diminishing returns, a 1.4 tflop difference is not going to make one much better than the other.
The real advantage this gen has been Sony's decision to stick with 36CUs and to make the ease of development as good as can be.
The whole "time to triangle" was important to Cerny and Sony and without a doubt that mature development environment and tools has helped the PS5 jump out of the box.
It's going to take awhile for the DX12U feature sets to be exploited considering half them haven't even been used in a game yet.

Cerny continues to prove he is the anti-Kutaragi.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Easy. The 16 year old game is the one where helmets float half a foot off the ground.

I agree, Microsoft was too forward thinking and the 3 years of cross gen games and no one in the industry pushing gaming forward at all has not paid off for Microsoft. By the time anything is used in these boxes and that includes sonys ssd, we will be well into next gen.

Shame.
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
I agree, Microsoft was too forward thinking and the 3 years of cross gen games and no one in the industry pushing gaming forward at all has not paid off for Microsoft. By the time anything is used in these boxes and that includes sonys ssd, we will be well into next gen.

Shame.
These are current-gen games (not cross-gen games) that PS5 is pulling ahead in.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
These are current-gen games (not cross-gen games) that PS5 is pulling ahead in.

What atomic heart?

Recently xbox has been winning all next gen patched games, from witcher 3. Plagues tale and more. Also, it's these smaller games from smaller devs that are fixed after patches.

Dead space is considerably better on xbox too. What games are you asking about, a cross gen atomic heart and that wild hearts game?

Both have heart in the title. It's clearly some kind of conspiracy.
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
In due time, my friend:


Jade Raymond.
The breaker of promises.
At this point I dont think shes ever gonna actually produce a game that makes it to market.
Even with Sony backing Haven Studios I wouldnt be shocked if down the line of production she leaves and goes to another studio where she can NOT release a product there too.

The last game she actually produced was Assassins Creed in 2007.
Damn! My poor 3060 is such a piece of shit!

LMAO same.
It was a 1080p card from the jump.
It handling some 1440p titles was just icing on top.
 
Jade Raymond.
The breaker of promises.
At this point I dont think shes ever gonna actually produce a game that makes it to market.
Even with Sony backing Haven Studios I wouldnt be shocked if down the line of production she leaves and goes to another studio where she can NOT release a product there too.

The last game she actually produced was Assassins Creed in 2007.



It was a 1080p card from the jump.
It handling some 1440p titles was just icing on top.
True that!
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
What atomic heart?

Recently xbox has been winning all next gen patched games, from witcher 3. Plagues tale and more. Also, it's these smaller games from smaller devs that are fixed after patches.

Dead space is considerably better on xbox too. What games are you asking about, a cross gen atomic heart and that wild hearts game?

Both have heart in the title. It's some kind of conspiracy.
  • Wild Hearts is a next-gen game, and PS5 is ahead.
  • Hogwart's Legacy also has a current-gen version only as of now, and PS5 performs better.
  • In the most-heavy tunnel areas in Gotham Knight, XSX drops to 21 FPS, but PS5 doesn't drop frames, while the resolution and image settings are identical.
And no, Dead Space is not "considerably better on Xbox."
  • 30 FPS
    • PS5 Resolution = 2259 x 1270
    • XSX Resolution = 2259 x 1270
    • Avg. PS5 Frame Rates = 30 FPS (100%)
    • Avg. XSX Frame Rates = 30 FPS (100%)
  • 60 FPS
    • PS5 Resolution = 1706x960
    • XSX Resolution = 1706x960
    • Avg. PS5 Frame Rates = 59.7 FPS
    • Avg. XSX Frame Rates = 59.9 FPS
VRS was shit on both consoles, and they have removed it on both consoles. It performs exactly the same on both consoles. (Source: Comparison video and stats sheet)
 
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DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
  • Wild Hearts is a next-gen game, and PS5 is ahead.
  • Hogwart's Legacy also has a current-gen version only as of now, and PS5 performs better.
  • In the most-heavy tunnel areas in Gotham Knight, XSX drops to 21 FPS, but PS5 doesn't drop frames, while the resolution and image settings are identical.
And no, Dead Space is not "considerably better on Xbox."
  • 30 FPS
    • PS5 Resolution = 2259 x 1270
    • XSX Resolution = 2259 x 1270
    • Avg. PS5 Frame Rates = 30 FPS (100%)
    • Avg. XSX Frame Rates = 30 FPS (100%)
  • 60 FPS
    • PS5 Resolution = 1706x960
    • XSX Resolution = 1706x960
    • Avg. PS5 Frame Rates = 59.7 FPS
    • Avg. XSX Frame Rates = 59.9 FPS
VRS was shit on both consoles, and they have removed it on both consoles. It performs exactly the same on both consoles. (Source: Comparison video and stats sheet)

Gotham knights that hardly runs on PC?

Wild hearts that has issues on the best pcs out there.....

Dead space has a lot less drops and consistently runs better....

The tide was turning and the xbox versions were all running better and in some cases with higher resolutions but we have had a couple of outstanders this year that are from smaller unknown devs and a game with a huge Sony marketing push.

A new patch just came out for atomic heart so it looks like the dev is working hard to fix the issues at least, I wonder how the incredible techies on the forum will explain how the xbox manages to get fixed from patches and its obviously the software at fault not the hardware.

anyone with half a brain cell knows, its one version lacking development resources from the actual developer But I do wonder how posters like Lysandros Lysandros come up with excuses for themselves when a game is patched to being fixed and iturnsns out their paragraphs of tech talk had nothing to do with it, and it was simple software....
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Gotham knights that hardly runs on PC?

Wild hearts that has issues on the best pcs out there.....

Dead space has a lot less drops and consistently runs better....

The tide was turning and the xbox versions were all running better and in some cases with higher resolutions but we have had a couple of outstanders this year that are from smaller unknown devs and a game with a huge Sony marketing push.

A new patch just came out for atomic heart so it looks like the dev is working hard to fix the issues at least, I wonder how the incredible techies on the forum will explain how the xbox manages to get fixed from patches and its obviously the software at fault not the hardware.

anyone with half a brain cell knows, its one version lacking development resources from the actual developer But I do wonder how posters like Lysandros Lysandros come up with excuses for themselves when a game is patched to being fixed and iturnsns out their paragraphs of tech talk had nothing to do with it, and it was simple software....
  1. I don't have a horse in this tech race. To me, both these consoles are pretty much the same and perform identically. If one outperforms another, it is mostly about that engine and dev techniques favoring a particular console environment. This has been my stance for years.
  2. But you were wrong about PS5 only performing better in cross-gen games, which I have corrected and shared 3 examples of recent current-gen-only games (PS5 performs better in all 3 of those current-gen games).
  3. You're also wrong about the Dead Space comparison, again. I've posted the exact frame rate statistics that show identical performance. If you're claiming otherwise, please back up your claim with data.
  4. Now, this last thing I disagree with y'all. Whenever Xbox performs better, it's "The more powerful console is finally showing its power." When PS5 performs better, it's "the XSX version was lacking development resources," or the "devs didn't optimize for the XSX." That's just hypocrisy and double standards that I do not agree with.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
  1. I don't have a horse in this tech race. To me, both these consoles are pretty much the same and perform identically. If one outperforms another, it is mostly about that engine and dev techniques favoring a particular console environment. This has been my stance for years.
  2. But you were wrong about PS5 only performing better in cross-gen games, which I have corrected and shared 3 examples of recent current-gen-only games (PS5 performs better in all 3 of those current-gen games).
  3. You're also wrong about the Dead Space comparison, again. I've posted the exact frame rate statistics that show identical performance. If you're claiming otherwise, please back up your claim with data.
  4. Now, this last thing I disagree with y'all. Whenever Xbox performs better, it's "The more powerful console is finally showing its power." When PS5 performs better, it's "the XSX version was lacking development resources," or the "devs didn't optimize for the XSX." That's just hypocrisy and double standards that I do not agree with.

Dude, trying to deny your playstation bias is pretty cringe tbh....
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Dude, trying to deny your playstation bias is pretty cringe tbh....
No one is denying my liking for PlayStation. But I've always had this stance on these console head-to-head comparisons.

CIVQdBo.jpg

jwyEDNW.jpg


Now, although you've tried to deflect the topic that we were discussing, I'd still like you to post receipts for Dead Space running "considerably better on XSX."
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
No one is denying my liking for PlayStation. But I've always had this stance on these console head-to-head comparisons.

CIVQdBo.jpg

jwyEDNW.jpg


Now, although you've tried to deflect the topic that we were discussing, I'd still like you to post receipts for Dead Space running "considerably better on XSX."

Ok, I'll change my statement to it runs better on series x than PS5. hope that helps.
 

GHG

Gold Member
I agree, Microsoft was too forward thinking and the 3 years of cross gen games and no one in the industry pushing gaming forward at all has not paid off for Microsoft. By the time anything is used in these boxes and that includes sonys ssd, we will be well into next gen.

Shame.

Yeh, so "forward thinking" that they also created the Series S. Give me a break.
 

Bojji

Member
It's obvious that one game running better on PS5 than on Series X or vice versa is a combination of engine favoring particular design (wider but slower or faster but thinner) or API differences (lower CPU overhead on PS5 maybe?). I doubt there is much merit for any "marketing" claims or devs optimizing only for one console.

So far hardware advantages XSX has (full RDNA2) didn't help this console much (if at all) but maybe this will change. Same goes for 2x speed of PS5 SSD.

Series S versions most of the time are bad or even horrible, MS cut RAM way too much.
 

acm2000

Member
series x version appears to be a couple patches behind the ps5 one, hardly end of the world scenario like console warriors like to make out
 

aries_71

Junior Member
All these Digital Foundry threads at Neogaf are entertaining but also pointless. The only thing that DF is useful for is to compare versions at a specific moment: launch day. One week later, or one year down the road after a few patches, the outcome could be different, for better or worse. Trying to discuss hardware capabilities based on these DF finding is disingenuous at best.

There are too many variables in a real project as to entertain some of these Neogaf discussions. Budgets, time, team size and experience, third party libraries, development environments, team motivation, etc. In my experience, a couple of brilliant engineers can carry the rest of the team on their shoulders. But a mediocre team will only produce mediocre results on whatever hardware is there.

Whenever you see one of these DF comparisons that finds that version A has a better framerate than version B you have to think on these things before blaming hardware. Was the same team working on the versions or there were separate teams? Did they have the same skills, experience and budget/time allocated? Were the priorities/motivations different between teams?
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
All these Digital Foundry threads at Neogaf are entertaining but also pointless. The only thing that DF is useful for is to compare versions at a specific moment: launch day. One week later, or one year down the road after a few patches, the outcome could be different, for better or worse. Trying to discuss hardware capabilities based on these DF finding is disingenuous at best.

There are too many variables in a real project as to entertain some of these Neogaf discussions. Budgets, time, team size and experience, third party libraries, development environments, team motivation, etc. In my experience, a couple of brilliant engineers can carry the rest of the team on their shoulders. But a mediocre team will only produce mediocre results on whatever hardware is there.

Whenever you see one of these DF comparisons that finds that version A has a better framerate than version B you have to think on these things before blaming hardware. Was the same team working on the versions or there were separate teams? Did they have the same skills, experience and budget/time allocated? Were the priorities/motivations different between teams?

Especially this generation, imagine if we all thought the dead space video was how the ps5 version would stay....

...only real good thing about the vids is it may give insight and pressure to the devs to fix their games, and what version to focus on.

For all we know this video could already be out of date, but I havnt seen any evidence on what was fixed in the xbox patch that released 24 hours ago.
 
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